Problem Based Learning (PBL)

[kderekb]

I know there are a lot of threads about PBL and I think I have read them all, but I still have more questions. I am interviewing at LECOM-Erie next month and I am wondering what the overall rating of PBL is from students there or either Seton Hill or Bradenton. I know what the differences are between PBL and LDP but I just want to know what the majority of the students at these schools think of them. Are there students who just can't do PBL? I feel I am a confident self learner but I just want some feedback from others.

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[guylewis]

I know PBL is problem based learning but what does LDP stand for? If anyone can chime in and give me a quick crash course (just the basics and any pros v cons) on this stuff I would really appreciate it!

 

[coolingglasses]

LDP is lecture-discussion pathway. I assumed it was the more traditional teaching pathway vs. PBL, but I dunno. I didn't interview there.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

That is correct, LDP is the lecture pathway. It means mandatory days 8-5, business attire everyday, no food or drinks in class... There is also ISP (independent study)...

I interviewed at Erie and Bradenton, and MUCH preferred Bradenton, FWIW. Anyway, students who are most successful at PBL are motivated and fast readers. Most of the information you're going to need to learn from textbooks, by yourself or with your study group. If you want to sit in the lecture hall for 8hrs/day without food/water, that is your choice, if lecture is the best method for you. If you've ever taken a self-study course and have done well in it, you would probably be okay in PBL. You have to decide for yourself, but most of the people I met with when I interviewed who were in LDP WISHED they were in PBL/ISP. The PBL method is becoming pretty tried/true, and it is obviously successful considering 1st time pass rate...

Hope this was of any use! FYI, I did not end up at either LECOM because RVU was 2mi from my home, and I was accepted there... best of luck!

 

[user3]

I'm really not sure about this "fast reader" and Pbl performance association. I met an M3 that had gone through LECOM Pbl. He told me he had gotten a 6 on verbal, so probably not the best reader. He didn't seem to have any issues with Pbl and had gotten high 500's on his comlex. I have met other LECOM PBL students who I doubt would be good readers and they seem to get through fine...LECOM admits many people to its PBL programs with low verbal scores and it doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

 

[cliquesh]

Pbl is the way to go. Medical school lecturers are horrible. This is a problem at nearly every school, md or do.

 

[Back 5]

Pbl is the way to go. Medical school lecturers are horrible. This is a problem at nearly every school, md or do.

PBL is simply reading the book cover to cover multiple times over your 2 years. Most schools are using the same books, so despite poor lectures at traditional didactic schools, just read your textbook.

 

[IslandStyle808]

PBL is simply reading the book cover to cover multiple times over your 2 years. Most schools are using the same books, so despite poor lectures at traditional didactic schools, just read your textbook.

Reading the book cover to cover is over simplifying it. It is taking the high yield information and making it something usable for presentations and tests (at the same time background reading other peoples topics). If you ever took a look at Robins, that book is ridiculously long and I don't believe any medical student has covered that book up and down.

 

[cliquesh]

PBL is simply reading the book cover to cover multiple times over your 2 years. Most schools are using the same books, so despite poor lectures at traditional didactic schools, just read your textbook.

Most schools have a book list, but few of the lecturers actually follow them. The lecturers are told to give a lecture about a topic, like renal failure, and the clinician will talk about anything he or she wants related to that topic. Some times they do a good job and other times it's a train wreck. Moreover, your tests will come from the lectures, so if your lectures do not follow the text books, you cannot simply read the text books and expect to do well on the tests. If you do PBL, on the other hand, none of your time is wasted and you can focus your efforts on high yield board topics for 2 whole years.

I went to a system based school.

 

[cliquesh]

Reading the book cover to cover is over simplifying it. It is taking the high yield information and making it something usable for presentations and tests (at the same time background reading other peoples topics). If you ever took a look at Robins, that book is ridiculously long and I don't believe any medical student has covered that book up and down.

They sell condensed bulletpoint books of nearly all of the major medical text books, including robins.

 

[Walter H White]

Most schools have a book list, but few of the lecturers actually follow them. The lecturers are told to give a lecture about a topic, like renal failure, and the clinician will talk about anything he or she wants related to that topic. Some times they do a good job and other times it's a train wreck. Moreover, your tests will come from the lectures, so if your lectures do not follow the text books, you cannot simply read the text books and expect to do well on the tests. If you do PBL, on the other hand, none of your time is wasted and you can focus your efforts on high yield board topics for 2 whole years.

I went to a system based school.

Well said.


Do you guys know of any schools that integrate both lecture and PBL? Or is that simply not possible due to time constraints?

 

[NontradCA]

If you do PBL, on the other hand, none of your time is wasted and you can focus your efforts on high yield board topics for 2 whole years.

Is this necessarily true? That EVERYTHING you do in PBL is board relevant?

 

[cliquesh]

Is this necessarily true? That EVERYTHING you do in PBL is board relevant?

No, I'm probably exaggerating. I just met numerous people from LeCom-B that had 700+ on the comlex level 1, so they must be doing something right.

 

[NontradCA]

No, I'm probably exaggerating. I just met numerous people from LeCom-B that had 700+ on the comlex level 1, so they must be doing something right.

Ah ok. But it's still Florida 👎

 

[hallowmann]

I'm really not sure about this "fast reader" and Pbl performance association. I met an M3 that had gone through LECOM Pbl. He told me he had gotten a 6 on verbal, so probably not the best reader. He didn't seem to have any issues with Pbl and had gotten high 500's on his comlex. I have met other LECOM PBL students who I doubt would be good readers and they seem to get through fine...LECOM admits many people to its PBL programs with low verbal scores and it doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

There is no real association between speed of reading and your MCAT verbal score. Someone could be an excellent speed reader, but have trouble with comprehension or even the way in which a question is phrased, and they could do terribly on the MCAT verbal subsection.

That said, I don't know if being a fast reader is a requirement for PBL either, because while being a fast reader might get you through a lot of texts quickly, it again doesn't necessary mean that you'll remember and understand it all.

Plus PBL is also helpful in terms of putting a lot of the material into a clinical perspective, which would likely yield better board scores, and the lack of direction/structure requires the development of good research skills, which I've been told are important during rotations, internships, and residencies.

I personally think some kind of combined PBL/short lecture might fit me the best, but not many schools offer that, and the ones that do are either harder to get into or a good amount more expensive.

 

[user3]

There is no real association between speed of reading and your MCAT verbal score. Someone could be an excellent speed reader, but have trouble with comprehension or even the way in which a question is phrased, and they could do terribly on the MCAT verbal subsection.

That said, I don't know if being a fast reader is a requirement for PBL either, because while being a fast reader might get you through a lot of texts quickly, it again doesn't necessary mean that you'll remember and understand it all.

You are not a "fast reader" if you can "read" through a lot of text but not comprehend or retain.

 

[hallowmann]

You are not a "fast reader" if you can "read" through a lot of text but not comprehend or retain.

Reading in general (speed or otherwise) doesn't = retention. Speed reading doesn't mean you retain all that you read. You can be a speed reader and get the idea, or general themes, but its not a requirement of "speed reading" that you could recall every main point of what you read for an extended period of time. Perhaps you'd only recall the points important to you...

And again, we're talking about comprehension or retention for a standardized test. It doesn't necessarily address the main points, even if you comprehend them. In addition there are clear issues that people have with understanding what questions are actually asking. I've seen many more people have an issue actually understanding what a question is asking, than actually finishing the exam/passage.

So again, my point is, being a speed reader does not mean you will get a high board/verbal subsection score.

 

[Back 5]

Is this necessarily true? That EVERYTHING you do in PBL is board relevant?

That was one of the main selling points during my interview at LECOM-B, how everything in PBL is taught relevant to the board. The director of PBL went so far as to specifically state that you won't need to study for boards when I asked him if we have access to question banks and how much time off were we given for board prep.

 

[user3]

That was one of the main selling points during my interview at LECOM-B, how everything in PBL is taught relevant to the board. The director of PBL went so far as to specifically state that you won't need to study for boards when I asked him if we have access to question banks and how much time off were we given for board prep.

I wonder if Erie and Seton Hill PBL students have similar success. Theoretically they should...

 

[angldrps]

With LECOM's PBL schedule, you only have to be on campus 2x a week for only a few hours leaving the rest of the days for you to study on your own, so even if you are a slow reader you can comfortably manage to get everything done without feeling rushed.