Problems with shadowing

[Lisochka]

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Guys, help me out please.
I think I miss something...
I have a feeling that doctors do not really want me to shadow them 🙁
I did shadow in ER last summer, and saw few surgeries. CAlled to the same surgeon to shadow him more and he did not return my call.
In ER, I shadowed an MD and PA. And I just had a feeling like I am a burdan for them...
Is it a common thing and I just need to be persistant or I am just doing something wrong?

 

[Lisochka]

Guys, help me out please.
I think I miss something...
I have a feeling that doctors do not really want me to shadow them 🙁
I did shadow in ER last summer, and saw few surgeries. CAlled to the same surgeon to shadow him more and he did not return my call.
In ER, I shadowed an MD and PA. And I just had a feeling like I am a burdan for them...
Is it a common thing and I just need to be persistant or I am just doing something wrong?

And, I can't even imagine any doctor giving me a LOR... I have asked the MD in ER and he said that when I apply the school will send him a form, and then he will fill in the form (But I am going to apply in 2 years, he won't even remember me 🙁 )
I don't know how some people can shadow and get LOR from the doctor...

 

[medhacker]

And, I can't even imagine any doctor giving me a LOR... I have asked the MD in ER and he said that when I apply the school will send him a form, and then he will fill in the form (But I am going to apply in 2 years, he won't even remember me 🙁 )
I don't know how some people can shadow and get LOR from the doctor...

if the physicians seems too apathetic, or does not return calls, then maybe you are better off finding another one to shadow.

Once you do shadow them if you wish to get a LOR later on, learn how to keep in touch with them, email, greeting cards, etc

 

[psipsina]

I think that unless you have spent alot of time with the Dr you are shadowing, getting a LOR from them is a bad idea. LORs end up sounding really generic if the writer doesn't know you really well and hasn't seen you in action. Shadowing is an interesting and important activity to help you understand what you are getting into but not usually a great opportunity to show what you are capable of, as it is usually pretty passive in nature.

 

[nekrogg]

well not to be rude or anything.. just brain storming.. but did you actively seek out conversation with the doctor? if you were quiet the whole time im pretty sure thats where the awkward-ness in the relationship arose from.. if you took the time to get to know him and expand your relationship and he was still a jerk, then its time to find greener pastures!

or he could be really busy, and actually showing up at his office respectfully and very unintrusively as possible would be the best route to take.

 

[Lisochka]

thank you so much!
It is just what do I bring to the table when I shadow?
Volonteering is different, I actually do something, help and just being useful.
But shadowing- I do nothing, just watch and ask questions.
Do you guys give small presents or take the doctors you shadow to a lunch?
What can I do and what is ethycal to do, so they would not feel like a I am just a taker...

 

[gujuDoc]

I think it depends all where you shadow. My friend was shadowing an oncologist, and he wasn't really thrilled about the idea but did it as a favor to someone else in the hospital. However, at the neighboring teaching hospital which was a VA center most of the physicians I talked to were happy to allow students to shadow. I think it depends where you shadow. Teaching hospitals generally are more friendly because the physicians are professors and enjoy teaching. I know the neurologist I shadowed was absolutely wonderful about letting students shadow and is even helping be advisor for a premed group on campus because he absolutely loves medicine and teaching. He likes the academic medicine better because it allows him three things, a better schedule, the ability to do research, and the ability to teach. Plus, even though academic medicine pays less, it offers a lot of benefits in terms of helping with insurance coverage etc. I'm not sure of the exacts, but this is what i've heard.

 

[Lisochka]

I think it depends all where you shadow. My friend was shadowing an oncologist, and he wasn't really thrilled about the idea but did it as a favor to someone else in the hospital. However, at the neighboring teaching hospital which was a VA center most of the physicians I talked to were happy to allow students to shadow. I think it depends where you shadow. Teaching hospitals generally are more friendly because the physicians are professors and enjoy teaching. I know the neurologist I shadowed was absolutely wonderful about letting students shadow and is even helping be advisor for a premed group on campus because he absolutely loves medicine and teaching. He likes the academic medicine better because it allows him three things, a better schedule, the ability to do research, and the ability to teach. Plus, even though academic medicine pays less, it offers a lot of benefits in terms of helping with insurance coverage etc. I'm not sure of the exacts, but this is what i've heard.

thank you...
See, our hospital is not teaching hospital. So, the surgeon I shadow is considered a very student-friendly (and he is very cool!)
It is just may be is it ok to take him out for lunch? or to do something to thank him? because I really need to continue to shadow...
And he did not retrn my call 🙁
I don't wanna bug you guys and sound like a spoiled chiled wanting a toy...
I guess, I am just upset...
What would you do if you were me?

 

[gujuDoc]

If he's a surgeon, then maybe he's just gotten really bogged down and not had a time to call due to a busy schedule. You might want to ask his secretary when the best time to contact him, and if it is super early in the morning then call then. Otherwise, I'd see if there's another doctor you can shadow.

 

[anniemal]

On the topic of shadowing, what do you think about shadowing an OB/Gyn? Has anyone shadowed one?

 

[oxeye]

Anniemal - I'm shadowing an OB/Gyn right now. What do you want to know? It's been a great experience for me.

 

[robotsonic]

Not all physicians like to teach. This will become painfully clear to you throughout medical school, when you are forced to work with attendings who try to pretend that the students aren't there, and make no effort to teach them anything. On the other hand, you will also meet attendings who love to teach residents and medical students, and will make an effort to ensure that you are learning. Many premeds seem to just find any physician who will agree to shadowing, without taking this into account. If you get someone who really isn't that into having you around, then find someone else.

Also, many attendings won't know what to say to premeds, since they are used to assessing residents and 3rd or 4th year med students. Their level of explanations will probably be beyond what you would know as a premed, and they will not be used to taking the time to explain some of the basic things that they assume everyone knows.

As for taking an attending out to lunch, that seems very strange to me, but I am at a med school that is pretty hierarchical. I wouldn't have lunch with an attending unless s/he invited me, and in that case the attending usually pays.

 

[gujuDoc]

Anniemal - I'm shadowing an OB/Gyn right now. What do you want to know? It's been a great experience for me.

I shadowed one for like 2 days as part of a summer program back in highschool several years ago. The best thing I saw was an ultrasound of a new baby but the most yucky thing I saw was a papsmere. At any rate, it was a good experience and one that I don't regret. I, however, was not able to shadow longer then that, because it was only part of a rotational program through the AHEC centers of Southcentral florida.

 

[oxeye]

I shadowed one for like 2 days as part of a summer program back in highschool several years ago. The best thing I saw was an ultrasound of a new baby but the most yucky thing I saw was a papsmere. At any rate, it was a good experience and one that I don't regret. I, however, was not able to shadow longer then that, because it was only part of a rotational program through the AHEC centers of Southcentral florida.

I'm lucky in that I'm shadowing this OB/Gyn two mornings a week. I've scrubbed in for c-sections, watched vaginal births, ultrasounds, pap smears (yeah, not the prettiest but it's much, much worse to be the person getting the pap smear than to be the person watching, LOL!). I feel fortunate that I've been able to see so much with this doctor.

 

[nicholonious]

Guys, help me out please.
I think I miss something...
I have a feeling that doctors do not really want me to shadow them 🙁
I did shadow in ER last summer, and saw few surgeries. CAlled to the same surgeon to shadow him more and he did not return my call.
In ER, I shadowed an MD and PA. And I just had a feeling like I am a burdan for them...
Is it a common thing and I just need to be persistant or I am just doing something wrong?

No, nothing wrong. You will most likely only get a few days shadowing experience from a doc, sometimes, it could be a week or two. Some are enthusiastic and some are just plain too busy with their work. Not much you can do about it but move on.

 

[Lisochka]

No, nothing wrong. You will most likely only get a few days shadowing experience from a doc, sometimes, it could be a week or two. Some are enthusiastic and some are just plain too busy with their work. Not much you can do about it but move on.

Oh, ok then... That makes sence.
Because I thought that it was a normal experience to shadow 1 doctor for 3-6 months.

Thank you guys, a lot!

 

[Krazykritter]

Lisochka,

You might want to attempt to find a free health clinic in your area. Volunteering at a place like this will allow you to shadow a couple different docs. From my experience, the docs that volunteer their time at these clinics are really great people. The key to getting a good LOR is to develop a good relationship with at least one of the docs you shadow. The free health clinic is a place where you will also see a diverse patient population; everyone from students to people who just immigrated all in varying degrees of disease.

Taking them out to lunch is kind of a BS idea. They get this kind of treatment from drug reps probably 300 days a year and can see through people trying to butter them up.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Maybe someone has already said this, but don't worry too much about a doctor not returning your call. Docs are extremely busy people, and its probably not a high priority to return calls to premeds. Be polite and persistent, and you'll turn out ok.

 

[stoic]

you've still got a lot of time before you apply (2 years, right?). so try to shadow some more people until you find someone you click with and go from there. if you develop a relationship with the doc, then LOR's will be no big deal.

don't get discouraged if it takes a few docs to find one you get along with. i think everyone gets blown off by a few docs as premeds... they're busy busy busy - it's hard getting their attention as a med student!

 

[gujuDoc]

Not all physicians like to teach. This will become painfully clear to you throughout medical school, when you are forced to work with attendings who try to pretend that the students aren't there, and make no effort to teach them anything. On the other hand, you will also meet attendings who love to teach residents and medical students, and will make an effort to ensure that you are learning. Many premeds seem to just find any physician who will agree to shadowing, without taking this into account. If you get someone who really isn't that into having you around, then find someone else.

Also, many attendings won't know what to say to premeds, since they are used to assessing residents and 3rd or 4th year med students. Their level of explanations will probably be beyond what you would know as a premed, and they will not be used to taking the time to explain some of the basic things that they assume everyone knows.


As for taking an attending out to lunch, that seems very strange to me, but I am at a med school that is pretty hierarchical. I wouldn't have lunch with an attending unless s/he invited me, and in that case the attending usually pays.

I've heard that at USF and FSU, the attendings, residents, and students have a somewhat close knit relationship and often do lunch and things together. But its different at each school, and depends on which attendings specifically you are talking about.

I lucked out with shadowing because we got a couple of teaching hospitals with attendings who were well into teaching to allow us to shadow. A few of my other contacts are that way. I don't think I'd continue shadowing with someone if they felt I was a burden and didn't want me there.

But I agree that unless you are very close to an attending, as a premed it is strange to try to take them to lunch or something.

I think the doctor got bogged down with work, since they are a surgeon and surgeons have some of the worst schedules. They probably don't have the time to call you back right now. I don't find that they are not calling back strange at all.

 

[gujuDoc]

you've still got a lot of time before you apply (2 years, right?). so try to shadow some more people until you find someone you click with and go from there. if you develop a relationship with the doc, then LOR's will be no big deal.

don't get discouraged if it takes a few docs to find one you get along with. i think everyone gets blown off by a few docs as premeds... they're busy busy busy - it's hard getting their attention as a med student!

Also, to add to this........it might not be a bad thing to find a different doc to shadow because it will show variety in shadowing. Also, maybe you should try to shadow a few different fields to get a sense for different sorts of areas of medicine. Or shadow a different surgeon who may be able to give you another perspective.

 

[gujuDoc]

Taking them out to lunch is kind of a BS idea. They get this kind of treatment from drug reps probably 300 days a year and can see through people trying to butter them up.

The above bolded is true. i worked at a doc's office for a month, before time conflicts got in the way. Anyhow, the doc's always had pharm reps provide the office staff with lunch.

 

[Lisochka]

hey guys,
thank you so much!
You have helped me A LOT!