professional med-admissions counseling?

[sunnyjohn]

Anone in here used professional medical admissions counseling? Anyone heard of Judy Colwel? Know od any other counselor?

I would really like opinions before I shell out cash.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[boilerbeast]

I wouldn't shell out any cash for a "professional advisor." Usually, advisors are semi-worthless and you'll probably want to have one that's affiliated with your university anyway. Getting into med school basically involves jumping through a lot of hoops. You take the classes, get the experience, and make some friends along the way to write your recommendations, etc.

Look at the Big Guide to Medical School on this site and just follow it...use the forums when you have questions. If you're smart enough to pass physics and O-chem you can surely maneuver this process by yourself.

 

[efex101]

Judy Colwell is great although I personally have not used her services...I have heard of others that did. What is great is that *she* herself used to be an adcom hence she "knows" what the heck she is talking about..

 

[tic112]

Don't use them. They are a waste of time and money (lots of money). I met with Judy Colwell once. She only tells you what you already know or can find out from reading the posts on this website.

 

[krelian]

Try to befriend someone you know who just went through the process and was successful in getting into a bunch of top 10 schools. Often, this person can offer more pertinent advice than what those admissions counselors will provide. My friends who are applying this cycle ask me for advice all the time (including those annoying "what are my chances?" type of deal 🙄 ). Since friends know each other personally beyond just the stats, I would think that friends can provide much better advice than some consultant who is getting paid by the hour and who has never met you before.

 

[Ailleurs]

Surely that is some great advice you have suggested, krelian, and I would venture that not doing so would be a poor move. But for other people, specifically, the nontrads, do you think going to someone like Judy Colwell would at least be beneficial? I know she reads over essays and whatnot and having someone who used to be an adcom read the essay and give you some valuable tips, would be terrific, in my opinion. But then again she is quite expensive. $550 for the first two hours and $270 for every additional hour after that.

So, I guess another question that could be asked is, if someone has the money for it, should they go to her? I think some people might have unique cases, which she could see, and point out. Because I remember QofQuimica mentioning that she wasn't aware of the teaching aspect of her extracurriculars (although she didn't do professional pre-admissions counseling i think), she found out she should focus on that after getting counseling. So just thinking of those kind of situations, do you think that would be beneficial?

 

[shemarty]

Judy Colwell gave mock interviews at Stanford's undergraduate advising office, so I met with her for an hour before I went off on my first interview trip. She was nice and helpful and gave really good advice, but I personally wouldn't have *paid* for it.

Her website says that she focuses on helping non-traditional applicants who don't have access to college premed advising, so maybe that's the key here. If you're still an undergrad or have access to your school's advising office, that is sufficient. If you don't have access to those resources, maybe you want to consider paying for an admissions counselor, if you feel that you need it.

 

[Bacchus]

I would not pay for professional advice. There is plenty of knowledge on SDN to help you. Also, several admission committee members post frequently on here. I have a guide to getting into medical school that I will attach. This guide was reviewed by SDN members (according to the introduction) and isn't extremely old so all information still applies, for the most part. Take a look at it. Even though it has short in the filename, it is a comprehensive guide (80+ pages).

 

[QofQuimica]

So, I guess another question that could be asked is, if someone has the money for it, should they go to her? I think some people might have unique cases, which she could see, and point out. Because I remember QofQuimica mentioning that she wasn't aware of the teaching aspect of her extracurriculars (although she didn't do professional pre-admissions counseling i think), she found out she should focus on that after getting counseling. So just thinking of those kind of situations, do you think that would be beneficial?

I called up all of my state schools (I'm from FL), and went to meet with the admissions folks at three of them (plus did one free telephone counseling session with the admissions office from a fourth OOS state school). The cost was several hours of my time plus gas money to drive around FL--granted that it's a huge state and this wouldn't be so cheap to do these days. 😛 But I got excellent advice from the admissions folks as well as a chance to see all of my state schools, and that was invaluable. I also got help with my PS from the diversity office at one of my state schools (also free, also invaluable). I'd suggest doing this for anyone else in my situation (nontrad, no premed advisor through the traditional routes).

I never considered using a professional advisor. I know some people swear by professional advisors, and hopefully they do help some people. But my personal opinion is that most of these advisors prey on the fears of premeds, and they don't give you a single tidbit of good advice that can't be had for free from one of your state schools. Just MHO; take it for whatever you think it's worth. But if you do decide to shell out cash for one of these folks, make sure you research them and their success rate at getting people into med school. Best of luck to everyone applying this year. 🙂

 

[Mei]

A lot of medical schools also have free (some charge a small fee) admissions workshops. Most of these programs are sponsored by the Office of Diversity or Minority Outreach and it's basically a half/full day event going through the entire application process, a day in the life of XYZ College of Medicine student, Q&A, etc... I know a couple of California medical schools that offer such workshops for like 10 or 15 bucks. They are usually held in the spring.

 

[kac714]

i use her, but my parents paid for it... i'm only applying one cycle, so i figured i should do everything in my power to get it right. i think she's worth it, she was helpful with essays, etc. pm me if you have any more questions.

 

[gujuDoc]

I called up all of my state schools (I'm from FL), and went to meet with the admissions folks at three of them (plus did one free telephone counseling session with the admissions office from a fourth OOS state school). The cost was several hours of my time plus gas money to drive around FL--granted that it's a huge state and this wouldn't be so cheap to do these days. 😛 But I got excellent advice from the admissions folks as well as a chance to see all of my state schools, and that was invaluable. I also got help with my PS from the diversity office at one of my state schools (also free, also invaluable). I'd suggest doing this for anyone else in my situation (nontrad, no premed advisor through the traditional routes).

I never considered using a professional advisor. I know some people swear by professional advisors, and hopefully they do help some people. But my personal opinion is that most of these advisors prey on the fears of premeds, and they don't give you a single tidbit of good advice that can't be had for free from one of your state schools. Just MHO; take it for whatever you think it's worth. But if you do decide to shell out cash for one of these folks, make sure you research them and their success rate at getting people into med school. Best of luck to everyone applying this year. 🙂

The best part is one of those Fl. admissions directors is an advisor in the mentor forum on here. REL! Send him and the others in the Mentor forum a message for free. You have LizzyM, Tildy, NJBMD, REL, your own state's schools adcom directors and deans.

 

[njbmd]

Anone in here used professional medical admissions counseling? Anyone heard of Judy Colwel? Know od any other counselor?

I would really like opinions before I shell out cash.

I know Judy Colwell pretty well. The best thing about her (outside of her extensive admissions experience) is that she isn't going to take your money if you and she cannot agree that her services would be of help to you. She is pretty selective about the clients that she takes on. She has a website that contains some of the info about what she can possibly do for you but as others have said, you may not even need these types of services.

Most folks at undergraduate institutions don't need a professional counselor. The folks who do need these types of services generally do not have access to any other sources of info or have "special circumstances" that need to be handled in a very positive light. With any professional service, check out as much as possible before you spend the money.

 

[NTF]

honestly, sdn worked fine for me. The only thing I might have paid for in retrospect is some help writing essays (and even that you could easily find help w/o paying).

Now that my essay writing is done (for a little while anyway), I cringe when I read my PS and secondaries. Oy! What was I thinking?

 

[TheBateman]

SDN is probably the best guide.

 

[Doublecortin]

Anone in here used professional medical admissions counseling? Anyone heard of Judy Colwel? Know od any other counselor?

I would really like opinions before I shell out cash.

the only admissions counseling you need is sdn, and it is free 👍

 

[student1799]

I know Judy Colwell pretty well. The best thing about her (outside of her extensive admissions experience) is that she isn't going to take your money if you and she cannot agree that her services would be of help to you. She is pretty selective about the clients that she takes on.

That's a double-edged sword, because I think Judy and her peers tend to work mostly with clients who probably have little need of their services in the first place--i.e. very strong applicants who mainly need their hands held. For applicants who DO need assistance because of weak stats or unusual backgrounds, people like Judy aren't going to be much help.

She did take me on as a client, but I decided to call it a day after using up the 2-hour minimum, because I didn't think we had a great fit. She was initially quite dismissive of my background and accomplishments, until I set her straight. I realized that I was spending more time justifying myself to HER than making progress on my apps, which was not a great use of my time and money, so I decided to go forward on my own.

Having said that, I should add that she gave me a couple of pieces of advice that were useful--although I'm not sure it was worth $550. In general, I think SDN and my own instincts are just as useful--if not more so--as any admissions consultant.

 

[RSAgator]

To echo the postings here, I definitely think that SDN is more helpful than almost any adviser could be. I found the info here to be much more informative than than my own pre-med advisers. Granted you do need to take many things with a grain of salt, but if you want advice and you provide the information necessary to help you then you can get all that help here and then some. If you have the cash then shell it out, but the advice over here is free and probably just as good.

 

[deleted74029]

Paying for admissions counseling is like paying for porn.

 

[Jolie South]

i applied last year as a semi-nontrad (i guess?) and really only needed the advice i got on here and a writing center at a local community college. there are books out there that you can buy that are really helpful as well. i used the princeton review's essay writing guide.

i personally wouldn't waste my money on this. all the information is already out there. you just need to sift through threads and get advice here.

 

[gujuDoc]

i applied last year as a semi-nontrad (i guess?) and really only needed the advice i got on here and a writing center at a local community college. there are books out there that you can buy that are really helpful as well. i used the princeton review's essay writing guide.

i personally wouldn't waste my money on this. all the information is already out there. you just need to sift through threads and get advice here.

Agreed!! With a place like SDN, there is no need to shell out hundreds of dollars unnecessarily for advice. You have medical students and residents on this board, not just premeds. you have premeds who may have gone through the process but not succeeded before to tell you what not to do. You have admissions officers aka REL, Tildy, LizzyM, NJBMD, and a few others whopost on hee.

You have students starting medical students who look over PSes, ad you have posters who've been advising students for years.

You have attendings in here as well. And tat's the tip of the iceberg.

 

[bcat85]

You are looking at the best pre-med counseling you could ever ask for. SDN is a great place for pretty much everything. Don't shell out that money.

 

[njbmd]

the only admissions counseling you need is sdn, and it is free 👍

I didn't even have SDN (it wasn't around back then) cause I applied back in the "dark ages" of medicine when we only had saws and whisky. I just "flew by the seat of my knickers" and did just fine. I will say that having SDN is a good resource for people but plenty of people get into medical school without it too. There aren't many of my students who even know about SDN and they seemed to have done quite well.

 

[Docere]

I don't know if other universities have this, but my university offers an HPAC (Health Professions Advisory Committee) for 'free'. This is a committee of 14 faculty and staff members who not only evaluate a student's biographical and academic records for a thorough and superb recommendation letter, but also goes over the student's application to medical school and offers comments/suggestions. They also do mock interviews when requested. This is a great service that my university had adopted, and most pre-med students use it to their advantage. I say 'free' with quotations because I think there's a small fee students have to pay for some technical necessity or something. This committee has seen people apply to med school for years, so they know what they're talking about when they say something about your application needs to be edited.

I'd check with my university to see if such a service is offered before paying someone else.

But I agree with quite a few people who have posted so far. Advising isn't something you need to pay a heavy fee for necessarily. Extensive research on the Internet or at the libraries will tell you what you need to know. And the good people of SDN offer great advice on some things (though regretfully, I've seen several rude and unhelpful remarks).

Good luck!

 

[Excelsius]

I called up all of my state schools (I'm from FL), and went to meet with the admissions folks at three of them (plus did one free telephone counseling session with the admissions office from a fourth OOS state school). The cost was several hours of my time plus gas money to drive around FL--granted that it's a huge state and this wouldn't be so cheap to do these days. 😛 But I got excellent advice from the admissions folks as well as a chance to see all of my state schools, and that was invaluable. I also got help with my PS from the diversity office at one of my state schools (also free, also invaluable). I'd suggest doing this for anyone else in my situation (nontrad, no premed advisor through the traditional routes).
...

I was wondering, what was the nature of the meeting? Did you call and ask if you can meet an admissions counselor to ask some questions? Did you take your essays with you to show them? Any other papers? Or was it just a question and answer session that some schools might say they can do over the phone instead? How much time did they spend with you? And finally, what was one important thing that you learned as a result of the meetings? I am just wondering what specific questions can a student ask that is already not available online (besides telling them about your background and very broadly asking them what they think).

 

[Excelsius]

Bump. (This is exactly why so many of us believe that application specific threads should be in a different subforum. Regular good threads like this get continuously pushed into the background, disrupting the non-specific learning process on this forum.)

 

[QofQuimica]

I was wondering, what was the nature of the meeting? Did you call and ask if you can meet an admissions counselor to ask some questions? Did you take your essays with you to show them? Any other papers? Or was it just a question and answer session that some schools might say they can do over the phone instead? How much time did they spend with you? And finally, what was one important thing that you learned as a result of the meetings? I am just wondering what specific questions can a student ask that is already not available online (besides telling them about your background and very broadly asking them what they think).

Ok, now you are going to make me publically post my premed neuroticism for all of SDN to see. Here is my timeline. All I can say is, you asked.

-August 2004: took the MCAT while still a grad student. Did not plan to apply before the following year.

-Oct. 2004: received score.

Fall/Winter 2004/2005:

• Looked through MSAR. Eliminated all schools that didn't take residents of my state or that didn't seem to offer much in the way of research opportunities.
• Ended up with about 2 dozen schools. Called all 24 of them and explained my situation to their admissions folks (nontrad, out of college nine years, all pre-reqs P/F, grad student, would they be willing to consider my app?) Most schools said it depended on my MCAT score. Told them my MCAT score and most said I could reasonably apply. One school flat-out told me not to bother, so I didn't. One school I ultimately decided against applying to b/c I didn't want to move to that state.
• Called back all of the FL med schools. Made an appointment to meet with the admissions directors. Also made a telephone appointment for app counseling at U Mich.
• Printed out a copy of my CV, a copy of my MCAT score report, and an unofficial copy of all five of my transcripts. Made photocopies of all of my pre-req narrative evals from college.
• Physically drove to UF, USF, and U Miami. Brought all of the above materials with me. Spent about 2-3 hours at each school including meeting with the admissions directors. All three schools provided counseling on how to improve my app. At UF, they also took me on a tour, introduced me to some people. At USF, the admissions director got the dean to come speak to me also. At U Miami, I mainly wandered around on my own.
• Kept in touch with all three admissions directors over the subsequent six months.

-May 2005: wrote my PS. Got advice from USF diversity office for improving PS. Opened my AMCAS account. Started entering all my eight zillion courses.

-June 2005: submitted AMCAS and went on from there.

After my counseling sessions, I had a very good idea about what these schools were looking for in an applicant and what they would consider my strengths and weaknesses to be. I was able to take specific steps to remedy some of the deficits and emphasize the strengths. (If you're interested in the specifics, I wrote a post about this in the nontrad forum--look at the second post in the Nontrad Secrets of Application Success thread which is linked in the sticky). As far as I'm concerned, the pre-app counseling was an incredibly good use of my time. All four of the schools that counseled me invited me to interview early and accepted me in October 2005. I was ultimately invited to interview at 15 other schools and rejected pre-interview by two.

Note that you must get app counseling *before* you submit AMCAS, not afterward! Once you hit that submit button, the admissions folks will no longer be able to discuss your app with you because your file is open. Thus, if you're going to take this route, you really need to plan carefully and be prepared well ahead of time.

Hope this info is helpful--best of luck. 🙂

Edit: Don't be so inpatient, Excelsius. I was on call and couldn't post last night.

 

[ayushman80]

I think that admissions consultants are a good thing. I used a consultant and it worked out really really well. I've gotten 8 interviews and already 1 acceptance (hoping for more).

I don't completely agree with what you guys are saying about SDN. SDN is a good thing, however a lot of the advice you get here is "blind leading the blind." There are experienced people like Q on here who provide a lot of good input. But for the most part pre-meds are giving pre-meds advice (I'm included in this). I would rather pay a little money to a consultant who was on an adcom for some professional advice.

People are willing to shell out 2000 dollars for Kaplan. I just studied for the MCAT on my own an used my money to get advice on my application. In the end, I think I was better for it.

 

[gujuDoc]

I think that admissions consultants are a good thing. I used a consultant and it worked out really really well. I've gotten 8 interviews and already 1 acceptance (hoping for more).

I don't completely agree with what you guys are saying about SDN. SDN is a good thing, however a lot of the advice you get here is "blind leading the blind." There are experienced people like Q on here who provide a lot of good input. But for the most part pre-meds are giving pre-meds advice (I'm included in this). I would rather pay a little money to a consultant who was on an adcom for some professional advice.

People are willing to shell out 2000 dollars for Kaplan. I just studied for the MCAT on my own an used my money to get advice on my application. In the end, I think I was better for it.

A lot of times professional advisors give a lot more blind advice that s totally off. There are admissions officers on here who can speak from experience of being on an adcom who will shell out advice for free.

And in your on states, you all should be speaking with adcom directors who will often speak to you for FREE.

 

[gujuDoc]

I didn't even have SDN (it wasn't around back then) cause I applied back in the "dark ages" of medicine when we only had saws and whisky. I just "flew by the seat of my knickers" and did just fine. I will say that having SDN is a good resource for people but plenty of people get into medical school without it too. There aren't many of my students who even know about SDN and they seemed to have done quite well.

I think the main point of the post you quoted was not that peole need SDN to get through the app cycle. Just that it is FREE!!

That there is NO NEED to shell out 100s if not 1000s of dollars for counseling sessions or to have your PS reviewed through rip off websites like essayedge.com when both on SDN there are people who can give great advice who are on adcoms like yourself or who have been through this process.

And if not that, then there are admissions directors. All of the Fl. admissions directors are open to taking appts and advising. At USF ven the head of the adcom voting committee will speak to you. He himself is an alumni of USF COM and family med doc that decided to return to USF med after graduation and now serves on the committee.

At USF, the Dean of Div. Initiatives and VP of Diversity and Equal Opportunity for the main campus looks over PSes, does mock interviews, will go over your AMCAS with you before you submitted it for verification but after you've filled it out. He'll also advise you on admissions issues. So will the dean of student affairs and former dean of admissions do this, as well as the diversity office's program director and her program coordinator do this.

At UF, the director will do this as is the case at Miami at least when the former dean was there. I know nothing of the new one.

The former director of admissions from USF is now at UCF's new med school and he also advises people and even does so on here on SDN via the mentor forum at the bottom of the forums. He's one of the best advisors I've ever known.

FIU's new medical school, I emailed the dean of admissions for this one to ask a question and she was also open to talking.

So that is the point i'm making. There are adcom members on here and if they aren't on here, they are in your state, a phone call away; an email away from you. YOU and YOU ALONE have to take that initiative to speak with them if you wish to get advice that is not from undergrad premed advisors and more official.

YOU AND YOU ALONE have to learn to become resourceful as students. One of the biggest thngs I've encountered in my life is that a lot of people tend to pay for such services becaue they don't want to take that initiative to speak with those adcom directors. They want someone to baby them and tell them to do this or tell them whose office to go to and what the number is. they don't even want to look this info up for themselves. a lot of students I've advised, now in medical school, were people who were this way and would look at me like I'm some sort of genius and I'd really done nothing short of telling them that which adcom directors spoke or who they needed to talk to i.e. who was in charge of the adcom office. But that's ok, I'm glad it worked out for them in the end which made it worth it.

 

[Excelsius]

Ok, now you are going to make me publically post my premed neuroticism for all of SDN to see. Here is my timeline. All I can say is, you asked.

-August 2004: took the MCAT while still a grad student. Did not plan to apply before the following year.

-Oct. 2004: received score.

Fall/Winter 2004/2005:

• Looked through MSAR. Eliminated all schools that didn't take residents of my state or that didn't seem to offer much in the way of research opportunities.
• Ended up with about 2 dozen schools. Called all 24 of them and explained my situation to their admissions folks (nontrad, out of college nine years, all pre-reqs P/F, grad student, would they be willing to consider my app?) Most schools said it depended on my MCAT score. Told them my MCAT score and most said I could reasonably apply. One school flat-out told me not to bother, so I didn't. One school I ultimately decided against applying to b/c I didn't want to move to that state.
• Called back all of the FL med schools. Made an appointment to meet with the admissions directors. Also made a telephone appointment for app counseling at U Mich.
• Printed out a copy of my CV, a copy of my MCAT score report, and an unofficial copy of all five of my transcripts. Made photocopies of all of my pre-req narrative evals from college.
• Physically drove to UF, USF, and U Miami. Brought all of the above materials with me. Spent about 2-3 hours at each school including meeting with the admissions directors. All three schools provided counseling on how to improve my app. At UF, they also took me on a tour, introduced me to some people. At USF, the admissions director got the dean to come speak to me also. At U Miami, I mainly wandered around on my own.
• Kept in touch with all three admissions directors over the subsequent six months.

-May 2005: wrote my PS. Got advice from USF diversity office for improving PS. Opened my AMCAS account. Started entering all my eight zillion courses.

-June 2005: submitted AMCAS and went on from there.

After my counseling sessions, I had a very good idea about what these schools were looking for in an applicant and what they would consider my strengths and weaknesses to be. I was able to take specific steps to remedy some of the deficits and emphasize the strengths. (If you're interested in the specifics, I wrote a post about this in the nontrad forum--look at the second post in the Nontrad Secrets of Application Success thread which is linked in the sticky). As far as I'm concerned, the pre-app counseling was an incredibly good use of my time. All four of the schools that counseled me invited me to interview early and accepted me in October 2005. I was ultimately invited to interview at 15 other schools and rejected pre-interview by two.

Note that you must get app counseling *before* you submit AMCAS, not afterward! Once you hit that submit button, the admissions folks will no longer be able to discuss your app with you because your file is open. Thus, if you're going to take this route, you really need to plan carefully and be prepared well ahead of time.

Hope this info is helpful--best of luck. 🙂

Edit: Don't be so inpatient, Excelsius. I was on call and couldn't post last night.

Somehow I lost track of this thread. Your post is excellent and one of the most helpful ones. All these stories about the large numbers of applicants to all schools made me think that schools won't even care to talk to you before you apply, but it seems that it's not the case. Your post in that other thread you mention is full of informative points. Thank you for all this information.

I wanted to ask you: what role do you think your academic standing played in getting you the pre-application access to medical school counselors? Did they know about your 43S and your PhD work before they agreed to see you? In other words, I am wondering about preconditions to meet. I suspect that especial non-trad applicants with inferior academic record must at least posses something extra (upward trend, Ph.D/ work, good research, etc) to gain the credibility to access med school counselors.

 

[QofQuimica]

Somehow I lost track of this thread. Your post is excellent and one of the most helpful ones. All these stories about the large numbers of applicants to all schools made me think that schools won't even care to talk to you before you apply, but it seems that it's not the case. Your post in that other thread you mention is full of informative points. Thank you for all this information.

I'm glad it was helpful, as well as that you came back to read it all. 😉

I wanted to ask you: what role do you think your academic standing played in getting you the pre-application access to medical school counselors? Did they know about your 43S and your PhD work before they agreed to see you? In other words, I am wondering about preconditions to meet. I suspect that especial non-trad applicants with inferior academic record must at least posses something extra (upward trend, Ph.D/ work, good research, etc) to gain the credibility to access med school counselors.

None. I can't remember if I told them about being in grad school (probably), but I did not tell them about my MCAT score. I suppose I kind of broadsided them, because I just told them that I was a FL resident with untraditional credentials and was interested in applying to med school. Any chance I could come see their school and talk to someone about my app? They all said yes and helped me make the appointments. I went and saw each school. Subsequently, I recommended to several of my premed students that they do the same, and likewise to several of the Floridian premeds on SDN. I have never heard of anyone being turned away as long as they did not already have an open file. Of course, I don't know how this works in other states; your state schools may be less willing or able to do preapp counseling. But in FL at least, my experience has been that the state med schools are willing to meet with *any* state residents who are interested in applying.

 

[Hurricane95]

You guys DO realize you resurrected a 3.5 year old thread right?

I'll bet money that Judy woman doesn't even DO this worthless counseling anymore. Even if she still did, I doubt she would tell you anything SDN or your school counselor wouldn't. Don't waste your money.

 

[Excelsius]

You guys DO realize you resurrected a 3.5 year old thread right?

I'll bet money that Judy woman doesn't even DO this worthless counseling anymore. Even if she still did, I doubt she would tell you anything SDN or your school counselor wouldn't. Don't waste your money.

I actually didn't realize that since I didn't resurrect it. But given the helpfulness of the posts, that's really irrelevant. Also one of the recent posts here says that the counselor you mentioned is still in business.

 

[QofQuimica]

Easy there, folks. There's no need to get personal. Just because a topic was started a while back doesn't mean it isn't still relevant to current premeds, as evidenced by the interest this thread is generating. On the other hand, it is likely true that the OP of this thread probably doesn't care much these days about premed counseling. 😉