Program attempting to dismiss me

[mehc012]

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So many anal people in medicine... the only thing this guy did that im certain theres more to is the sexual harassment report. Med students arent the type to report a student for something like this unless it was really off. The rest of what he did was unprofessional, sure, but shouldn't have even been reported.

That's kind of the point. The real issue is the overall pattern of unprofessional behavior. Nobody wants to hand a medical degree to someone who barely manages to keep themselves on the clean side of technically-defined unprofessionalism all the time. However, you can't make a rule that says "don't be a vaguely unprofessional dick most of the time or we'll kick you out." You also can't watch every student all the time to see whether they've got an overall pattern of unprofessional behavior.

What you can do is, once someone has some kind of report or incident that raises a red flag, you can watch those students to see if they are someone you want representing your school or going into medicine. Because those students that you don't want to be handing a degree to? 95% of what they do is 'unprofessional, sure, but not enough to be reported.' It's just that they do that stuff frequently and consistently.

So you watch the kids that raise flags, even if the individual incident was not severe enough or easy enough to prove to result in dismissal based on just that. Sometimes you find out that hey, the person effed up or got screwed and they're fine, good thing you didn't kick them out over the simple incident. And sometimes you watch someone closely and realize that hey, they're always walking the line between reportable and 'not worth reporting' unprofessionalism. Those are the ones who end up on SDN with these 'death by 1000 papercuts' stories about being 'persecuted' for a ton of minor transgressions.

You’d be surprised....

I was reported by a classmate for “unprofessionalism” for posting this to the class FB page during our neuro block during 1st year - https://local.theonion.com/amazon-1-click-bankrupts-area-parkinsons-sufferer-1819588148

Right, and I was reported by a faculty member for basically being a shy M1 and not wanting to talk about my career goals. Those types of things are BS. But then, neither of us had the followup story that OP here had, presumably because we don't walk that line all the time.

 

[Goro]

You’d be surprised....

I was reported by a classmate for “unprofessionalism” for posting this to the class FB page during our neuro block during 1st year - https://local.theonion.com/amazon-1-click-bankrupts-area-parkinsons-sufferer-1819588148

Did anything come of it?

 

[Taddy Mason]

Did anything come of it?

Not really. Someone from admin asked me about it who made it very clear that they thought it was a pretty ridiculous complaint, and that was it. No verbal warnings or “be careful with what you put on social media” lecture.

 

[Goro]

Not really. Someone from admin asked me about it who made it very clear that they thought it was a pretty ridiculous complaint, and that was it. No verbal warnings or “be careful with what you put on social media” lecture.

Even with this n=1, SDNers can rest assured that members of Professionalism committees get bogus complaints and simply roll their eyes.

 

[atomi]

At my school, the only time I ever got in trouble for "professionalism" was during a TBL session (you know, the one the school spent tens of thousands of your tuition money to get construction paper cut outs ala kindergarten). Part of the process involved giving mandatory negative feedback to each of your team members. I didn't have anything negative to say so wrote that I had no negative comments because they all did a good job. I was told that I had to provide something critical to each team member. I said that I honestly had nothing bad to say. I was then instructed to lie (seriously) for the purposes of the exercise, and I still left it blank. I, and about 30 other class members, then had to complete an extra assignment for our "professionalism" violation.

So there's this kind of "professionalism" violation. Then there's the OP's multiple transgressions. Shame that unfortunate word gets thrown around so subjectively.

 

[operaman]

You’d be surprised....

I was reported by a classmate for “unprofessionalism” for posting this to the class FB page during our neuro block during 1st year - https://local.theonion.com/amazon-1-click-bankrupts-area-parkinsons-sufferer-1819588148

Yeah that’s a bit much but there is a lesson in this too. I could imagine some patients and families might be bothered if their doctor were posting such things publicly, especially if they or their loved one has PD. Obviously you posted this in a private group and it’s clearly satire, but it’s a good lesson in how you never know how people will take things and how we generally hold physicians to higher standards.

Definitely an overreach by your classmate though. Hopefully your school just blew it off.

 

[Goro]

At my school, the only time I ever got in trouble for "professionalism" was during a TBL session (you know, the one the school spent tens of thousands of your tuition money to get construction paper cut outs ala kindergarten). Part of the process involved giving mandatory negative feedback to each of your team members. I didn't have anything negative to say so wrote that I had no negative comments because they all did a good job. I was told that I had to provide something critical to each team member. I said that I honestly had nothing bad to say. I was then instructed to lie (seriously) for the purposes of the exercise, and I still left it blank. I, and about 30 other class members, then had to complete an extra assignment for our "professionalism" violation.

 

[Newyawk]

That's kind of the point. The real issue is the overall pattern of unprofessional behavior. Nobody wants to hand a medical degree to someone who barely manages to keep themselves on the clean side of technically-defined unprofessionalism all the time. However, you can't make a rule that says "don't be a vaguely unprofessional dick most of the time or we'll kick you out." You also can't watch every student all the time to see whether they've got an overall pattern of unprofessional behavior.

What you can do is, once someone has some kind of report or incident that raises a red flag, you can watch those students to see if they are someone you want representing your school or going into medicine. Because those students that you don't want to be handing a degree to? 95% of what they do is 'unprofessional, sure, but not enough to be reported.' It's just that they do that stuff frequently and consistently.

So you watch the kids that raise flags, even if the individual incident was not severe enough or easy enough to prove to result in dismissal based on just that. Sometimes you find out that hey, the person effed up or got screwed and they're fine, good thing you didn't kick them out over the simple incident. And sometimes you watch someone closely and realize that hey, they're always walking the line between reportable and 'not worth reporting' unprofessionalism. Those are the ones who end up on SDN with these 'death by 1000 papercuts' stories about being 'persecuted' for a ton of minor transgressions.


Right, and I was reported by a faculty member for basically being a shy M1 and not wanting to talk about my career goals. Those types of things are BS. But then, neither of us had the followup story that OP here had, presumably because we don't walk that line all the time.

I hear you. My issue is that in this particular case, we dont know that his sexual harassment thing was legit. What if that one was a fluke? Just because it involves sexual harassment doesnt mean it was any more real than the aforementioned social media post. Maybe he made an awkward joke about it out of discomfort and it was perceived the wrong way. Maybe the girls didnt like him to begin with. We dont know.
The rest of what he did I wouldnt categorize as "walking the line all the time". We dont know this guy. Ive done and said silly stuff jokingly to residents, students, even attendings at times. Being silly is part of my personality. Does that make me unprofessional?...

 

[Goro]

I hear you. My issue is that in this particular case, we dont know that his sexual harassment thing was legit. What if that one was a fluke? Just because it involves sexual harassment doesnt mean it was any more real than aforementioned social media post. Maybe he made an awkward joke about it out of discomfort and it was perceived the wrong way. Maybe the girls didnt like him to begin with. We dont know.
The rest of what he did I wouldnt categorize as "walking the line all the time". We dont know this guy. Ive done and said silly stuff jokingly to residents, students, even attendings at times. Being silly is part of my personality. Does that make me unprofessional?...

Being silly is OK. But I know that you have the sense of when to stop being silly.

There was an SDNer who posted here that he was in serious hot water for fooling around with a cadaver's severed head in Anatomy lab. That's light years beyond silly.

The sexual harassment business might indeed have been a fluke. After all, OP states that they were found not guilty. But yet, something lingered after that, and OP, it seems not merely failed to live down the reputation, but actually lived up to it. that's the problem.

This is one of the reasons why my Adcom colleagues and I are very serious about weeding out people who make bad choices, even at the level of people who take the MCAT multiple times when they're not ready, sick/injured/sleepless etc. Because as medical students, they continue to make bad choices.

 

[mehc012]

I hear you. My issue is that in this particular case, we dont know that his sexual harassment thing was legit. What if that one was a fluke? Just because it involves sexual harassment doesnt mean it was any more real than the aforementioned social media post. Maybe he made an awkward joke about it out of discomfort and it was perceived the wrong way. Maybe the girls didnt like him to begin with. We dont know.
The rest of what he did I wouldnt categorize as "walking the line all the time". We dont know this guy. Ive done and said silly stuff jokingly to residents, students, even attendings at times. Being silly is part of my personality. Does that make me unprofessional?...

Sometimes, probably. Just as I'm unprofessional in various ways now and then. But we're not getting kicked out over it. As you said, we don't know, so I'm not sure why you think we have enough evidence to sit here second-guessing a group of professionals with a vested interest in keeping OP in the school, who know the situation and the people involved far better, and who think that OP's behavior is questionable.

As for the rest...I literally don't know how to reconcile this with what you said before, which seems to be the complete opposite. I'll just say that hey, yeah...the girls probably didn't like him to begin with. That's usually how a sexual harassment issue comes up. Someone continues making sexual remarks to an unreceptive audience.

So many anal people in medicine... the only thing this guy did that im certain theres more to is the sexual harassment report. Med students arent the type to report a student for something like this unless it was really off. The rest of what he did was unprofessional, sure, but shouldn't have even been reported.

 

[deleted480308]

So many anal people in medicine... the only thing this guy did that im certain theres more to is the sexual harassment report. Med students arent the type to report a student for something like this unless it was really off. The rest of what he did was unprofessional, sure, but shouldn't have even been reported.

Disobedience during a critical procedure shouldn’t be reported?

 

[JP2740]

I will add a caveat to this...sometimes, if the initial event actually truly was a fluke rather than just "a slightly more prominent example of the behavior that low-level rubs people wrong on a constant basis," then sometimes you fall off the radar. Maybe someday I will tell SDN the story of how I got onto the Deans' radar early in M1 (was even placed on probation for professionalism, but fortunately in a way that doees not remain on the transcript in any way)...but suffice it to say that I very much ended up NOT on the radar by the end of preclinicals due to the very very good relationships I developed with my classmates, as well as with faculty. Between my grades, my extracurricular involvements, my constant efforts to help out classmates, and the fact that I never had another professionalism issue (and in fact was anonymously nominated by a classmate as an exceptional classmate), even the dean who initially got off on the wrong foot with me and put me on the sh¡t list to begin with has told me point-blank that I proved it wrong.

If it was truly a fluke that got you onto the radar, you stand a chance of getting off. These SDN stories, including OP's, more often fall into the category of "everyone consistently had an issue with their interactions with you, but it was always subtle and not explicitly against the rules until The Incident that got you on the radar, after which your continued pattern of vague problematic-ness was scrutinized enough to end you."

The only way to fix that is to identify your consistent thread of subtle attitude problems, admit its existence, and then try like hεll to change it.

I agree with this but it's program specific. This happened to me in residency too but it was a fluke and nothing ever came of it.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Disobedience during a critical procedure shouldn’t be reported?

The only thing I’m confused about being reported was the sleeping. I had overnight call on a few rotations in school, and it was expected that I’d sleep on my down time (i.e. no patients and no learning opportunities), so that I would be fresh when something did come up.

 

[Newyawk]

Disobedience during a critical procedure shouldn’t be reported?

Its a bit of a stretch calling this "disobedience"... he just tried to reason with the attending

 

[Psai]

You’d be surprised....

I was reported by a classmate for “unprofessionalism” for posting this to the class FB page during our neuro block during 1st year - https://local.theonion.com/amazon-1-click-bankrupts-area-parkinsons-sufferer-1819588148

This is hilarious on multiple levels

 

[IMreshopeful]

The only thing I’m confused about being reported was the sleeping. I had overnight call on a few rotations in school, and it was expected that I’d sleep on my down time (i.e. no patients and no learning opportunities), so that I would be fresh when something did come up.

When we had sub interns take overnight call in our CCU or MICU, after finishing their admits and tidying up their patients we sent them to sleep in a call room typically. There’s not much they can do anyway with respect to patient care unless their patients are crumping and they need to be hand for chest compressions or helping scrub for central venous access. So I don’t fully understand that part either.

 

[deleted480308]

Its a bit of a stretch calling this "disobedience"... he just tried to reason with the attending

If an attending is letting you do a procedure on their patient and they tell you to do it differently.....it’s not on you to “reason” with them. You do what you are told or tap out with an apology and admit you physically cannot perform the instructions

 

[Goro]

The only thing I’m confused about being reported was the sleeping. I had overnight call on a few rotations in school, and it was expected that I’d sleep on my down time (i.e. no patients and no learning opportunities), so that I would be fresh when something did come up.

We have seen this before on SDN in these types of situations. The OPs are quite selective in what they tell, and what they omit. This case isn't merely about sleeping. All of you who have been in the clinic know what rotations are like, and it's simple: what would trigger getting kicked out of a rotation....not getting sent home for the day (like time out), but actual getting kicked out????

Hence my usage of the phrase "one has to work at it". These are no mean feats.

 

[dpmd]

The only thing I’m confused about being reported was the sleeping. I had overnight call on a few rotations in school, and it was expected that I’d sleep on my down time (i.e. no patients and no learning opportunities), so that I would be fresh when something did come up.

I am guessing he didn't wait for downtime and the team was looking for him but he was sleeping.

 

[Goro]

I am guessing he didn't wait for downtime and the team was looking for him but he was sleeping.

We've seen similar things with students who, at 4PM don't have anything to do, and then figure, "oh, well, I can go home now"

And sure enough, at 4;15, the team is wondering "where is that kid???!!!"

 

[atomi]

More likely he just lacks situational and self-awareness, probably has difficulty with social interactions and says awkward things, and for whatever reason nothing was happening and he just went to a call room without telling anybody where he was going and somebody was looking for him. But he's fixated on a rule in the program manual that says students are permitted to sleep on overnight call without realizing that it necessarily involves informing someone.

 

[DokterMom]

Being silly is OK. But I know that you have the sense of when to stop being silly.

There was an SDNer who posted here that he was in serious hot water for fooling around with a cadaver's severed head in Anatomy lab. That's light years beyond silly.

The sexual harassment business might indeed have been a fluke. After all, OP states that they were found not guilty. But yet, something lingered after that, and OP, it seems not merely failed to live down the reputation, but actually lived up to it. that's the problem.

This is one of the reasons why my Adcom colleagues and I are very serious about weeding out people who make bad choices, even at the level of people who take the MCAT multiple times when they're not ready, sick/injured/sleepless etc. Because as medical students, they continue to make bad choices.

This is a huge one I see -- People frantically peddling faster and faster instead of stopping to strategize. If you're going in the wrong direction, you're only making things worse.

 

[Goro]

More likely he just lacks situational and self-awareness, probably has difficulty with social interactions and says awkward things, and for whatever reason nothing was happening and he just went to a call room without telling anybody where he was going and somebody was looking for him. But he's fixated on a rule in the program manual that says students are permitted to sleep on overnight call without realizing that it necessarily involves informing someone.

Believe it or not, this is why we ask the dreaded diversity questions in secondaries. I wonder if MMIs can screen for this?

 

[WingedOx]

I am guessing he didn't wait for downtime and the team was looking for him but he was sleeping.

"The team going to look for a medical student" tends to be something that doesn't happen in real life.

/made that mistake myself early in my m3 year.

 

[WingedOx]

There was an SDNer who posted here that he was in serious hot water for fooling around with a cadaver's severed head in Anatomy lab. That's light years beyond silly.

ah yes I remember that thread well. We had no shortage of posters complaining that getting into trouble for that was because of "SJW political correctness". 🙄

 

[dpmd]

"The team going to look for a medical student" tends to be something that doesn't happen in real life.

/made that mistake myself early in my m3 year.

I didn't mean looking for like they went somewhere and searched. Just that they looked left and looked right and said where is so and so and then shrugged and moved on with the work (but his absence was noted).

But I won't rule out the possibility he was called by someone to do something and told them no because he was sleeping his rule book allowed sleep.

 

[dpmd]

ah yes I remember that thread well. We had no shortage of posters complaining that getting into trouble for that was because of "SJW political correctness". 🙄

My school was extraordinarily clear about letting us know that no playing with or otherwise disrespectful behavior with the cadavers was allowed and would be punished severely. Regardless if people agree with the rule how can one complain about it being enforced when you violate it

 

[Fenderbaum]

So I have had very stupid incidents with this program in the past. I have good academics, no issues with patients or medical personnel, and am able to do what is asked of me. The administration on the other hand has been hurling fire at me since the end of my first didactic year. 2 students decided to accuse me of sexual harassment and after a lengthy investigation over entirely hearsay, I was found not guilty. The chairperson wanted to meet me shortly on a whim but I was unable to attend that meeting with her - she replied that I was unprofessional in the way I responded to her request, claiming I was unprofessional and would have to see the academic review committee to discuss my unprofessionalism. About a week before I was set to appear at this meeting, I realized that I was going be one question short of receiving honors for cardiology. I reached out to the Professor and discussed 2 questions with her - she relayed this to the chairperson. The meeting that was supposed to be about the supposed unprofessionalism regarding communication over email 3 months ago was now focused on how my grade appeal from one week ago. At a much later point in time during my second year of didactic, I missed a single class. A SINGLE CLASS, (attendance is mandatory- I was yet to miss anything) and they came up with a whole bunch of issues regarding professionalism that they wrote in a report and subsequently put me on probation for behavioral reasons. I reached out to the dean of campus life and was eventually reinstated from probation a few months later. I finished one clinical rotation and everything went superbly. My second clinical rotation is an unstructured disaster and I have had almost no interactions with the preceptor. During my third week I have a 24+ hour call and I decide to go to sleep for a few hours - this is within school policy. The preceptor hears word that I was sleeping 'excessively' and calls me to his office. I apologize and tell him its the school policy that I get some sleep and from there I will stay up for the rest of the shift. He gets an unrelated phone call during the meeting and abruptly tells me that I am to go home from the rotation. As per policy, I called the school and told them that I was released earlier than expected from the shift. The following day, I am failed for the rotation because of the single-day of sleeping and a rather benign situation regarding a bedside procedure that I had almost no part in that was inaccurately reported to the program by the preceptor. They put me on suspension and are considering dismissing me.

The social justice left today is what clerics were in the 1500s and 1600s; your first amendment rights - along with basically every other form of freedom - were surrendered when you applied to medical school. You then went on to eat not one but two golden calves, and then rebuked one the their high inquisitors by failing to make her feel important.

Whether or not you were actually innocent in the sexual harassment proceeding is irrelevant. For the remainder of your program - assuming you can avoid dismissal - they're going to put you in situations where 1) every little thing gets watched super super closely and 2) be put in situations where you are likely to fail or otherwise have a lapse.

If you have other career options, take them, because odds you get through from here are basically zero. Especially with you clinging to those silly notions of entitlement to due process and equal treatment.

 

[Fenderbaum]

Even with this n=1, SDNers can rest assured that members of Professionalism committees get bogus complaints and simply roll their eyes.

If committees were serious about promoting actual professionalism, they would punish fake or grossly exaggerated complainers. Filing exaggerated complaints against colleagues doesn't help schools educate, doesn't help students learn, doesn't advance the interest of patients, creates distracting dramas, and generates suspicious environments.

 

[mehc012]

The social justice left today is what clerics were in the 1500s and 1600s. You trampled on not one but two golden calves, and then rebuked one the their high inquisitors by failing to make her feel important.

...but confusing sentence structure and overly ambitious vocabulary padding aside, this thread is already enough of a clusterfrak without turning it into a debate about how hard it is to be a guy now that people sometimes listen when people speak out about sexual harassment. So please, keep that to the incel threads elsewhere.

 

[Fenderbaum]

...but confusing sentence structure and overly ambitious vocabulary padding aside, this thread is already enough of a clusterfrak without turning it into a debate about how hard it is to be a guy now that people sometimes listen when people speak out about sexual harassment. So please, keep that to the incel threads elsewhere.

They made a claim about sexual harassment that got dismissed by a title ix investigator. That means it was a fake claim, or a grossly exaggerated one.

Which isn't relevant because the mere accusation puts him at Larry Nassar status in the eyes of the social justice left. He should run, fast and far, because they will hunt him down and crucify him one way or the other.

 

[libertyyne]

The social justice left today is what clerics were in the 1500s and 1600s; your first amendment rights - along with basically every other form of freedom - were surrendered when you applied to medical school. You then went on to eat not one but two golden calves, and then rebuked one the their high inquisitors by failing to make her feel important.

Whether or not you were actually innocent in the sexual harassment proceeding is irrelevant. For the remainder of your program - assuming you can avoid dismissal - they're going to put you in situations where 1) every little thing gets watched super super closely and 2) be put in situations where you are likely to fail or otherwise have a lapse.

If you have other career options, take them, because odds you get through from here are basically zero. Especially with you clinging to those silly notions of entitlement to due process and equal treatment.

They made a claim about sexual harassment that got dismissed by a title ix investigator. That means it was a fake claim, or a grossly exaggerated one.

Which isn't relevant because the mere accusation puts him at Larry Nassar status in the eyes of the social justice left. He should run, fast and far, because they will hunt him down and crucify him one way or the other.

do you actually write this yourself or is it transmitted directly via infowars pirate radio?

 

[Fenderbaum]

do you actually write this yourself or is it transmitted directly via infowars pirate radio?

#believeallwomen

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

#believeallwomen

You must be a joy irl.

 

[atomi]

They made a claim about sexual harassment that got dismissed by a title ix investigator. That means it was a fake claim, or a grossly exaggerated one.

Dude I’m usually with you 100%, but in no way does the fact that a claim was dismissed mean the act didn’t occur. It just means there was a lack of evidence to move forward. The vast majority of sexual harassment incidents occur without witness or evidence. Yes, people also make up stuff too because they are psycho. But lots of people get off because it comes down to his word vs hers.

This is a problem without a solution until we all start wearing body cams 24/7. Nobody is trying to say we should take every girls word as 100% truth all the time and incontrovertible evidence.

 

[Fenderbaum]

Dude I’m usually with you 100%, but in no way does the fact that a claim was dismissed mean the act didn’t occur. It just means there was a lack of evidence to move forward. The vast majority of sexual harassment incidents occur without witness or evidence. Yes, people also make up stuff too because they are psycho. But lots of people get off because it comes down to his word vs hers.

This is a problem without a solution until we all start wearing body cams 24/7. Nobody is trying to say we should take every girls word as 100% truth all the time and incontrovertible evidence.

Title 9 doesn't dismiss he-said/she-said. The pursue, often vigorously. They dismiss when:
1. The accused can show the accuser is lying or very probably lying.
2. The accuser made a grossly exaggerated claim - i.e. accuser files a "rape" claim when they both agree they were making out, he initiates sex, she says no, its stops - or also the lame "so and so made a suggestive joke and I feel harassed by it" and the joke is something you might have heard on PBS' wait-wait-don't-tell-me.

 

[Goro]

The social justice left today is what clerics were in the 1500s and 1600s; your first amendment rights - along with basically every other form of freedom - were surrendered when you applied to medical school. You then went on to eat not one but two golden calves, and then rebuked one the their high inquisitors by failing to make her feel important.

Whether or not you were actually innocent in the sexual harassment proceeding is irrelevant. For the remainder of your program - assuming you can avoid dismissal - they're going to put you in situations where 1) every little thing gets watched super super closely and 2) be put in situations where you are likely to fail or otherwise have a lapse.

If you have other career options, take them, because odds you get through from here are basically zero. Especially with you clinging to those silly notions of entitlement to due process and equal treatment.

At the risk of derailing the thread, just exactly was YOUR professionalism issue, since the subject brings out such near pathological bitterness? Hopefully this can be a teaching moments.

BTW, institutions of higher learning are not law courts.

 

[Fenderbaum]

At the risk of derailing the thread, just exactly was YOUR professionalism issue, since the subject brings out such near pathological bitterness? Hopefully this can be a teaching moments.

I've never received a formal professionalism demerit or similar. Probably because I stopped engaging in informal conversation, wearing clothing that was expressive, making eye contact with the opposite sex, or generally have an opinion on any topic. It goes without saying that humor - that most mortal of all sins - is haram.

We've got a great big board in our campus gym saying that failing to re-rack weights is a professionalism issue. We got another that says taking a clipboard (the $.99) from the library is a professionalism issue and "act of gross misconduct". We got a butch-haircut radfem with a bunch of pubs about how biased men are who conducts unbiased title 9 investigations and hands out professionalism citations almost exclusively to white males for tacky crap like feet on table during low-intensity group work.

Do I resent the above? Yes, with utterly frothing contempt.

BTW, institutions of higher learning are not law courts.

But damn do they love them public dolla$$$

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I've never received a formal professionalism demerit or similar. Probably because I stopped engaging in informal conversation, wearing clothing that was expressive, making eye contact with the opposite sex, or generally have an opinion on any topic.

We've got a great big board in our campus gym saying that failing to re-rack weights is a professionalism issue. We got another that says taking a clipboard (the $.99) from the library is a professionalism issue and "act of gross misconduct". We got a butch-haircut radfem with a bunch of pubs about how biased men are who conducts unbiased title 9 investigations and hands out professionalism citations almost exclusively to white males for tacky crap like feet on table during low-intensity group work.



But damn do they love them public dolla$$$

Pretty sure taking a clipboard you didn't pay for is theft (of course, personally I think the amount some of these schools charge for tuition is theft, but that's beside the point).

 

[Goro]

I've never received a formal professionalism demerit or similar. Probably because I stopped engaging in informal conversation, wearing clothing that was expressive, making eye contact with the opposite sex, or generally have an opinion on any topic. It goes without saying that humor - that most mortal of all sins - is haram.

We've got a great big board in our campus gym saying that failing to re-rack weights is a professionalism issue. We got another that says taking a clipboard (the $.99) from the library is a professionalism issue and "act of gross misconduct". We got a butch-haircut radfem with a bunch of pubs about how biased men are who conducts unbiased title 9 investigations and hands out professionalism citations almost exclusively to white males for tacky crap like feet on table during low-intensity group work.

Do I resent the above? Yes, with utterly frothing contempt.

This is all quite informative, illuminating, actually.

 

[dpmd]

This is all quite informative, illuminating, actually.

I am so gosh darn pissed I can't ogle chicks, ignore rules, steal, and sit in super casual relaxed manner while working

 

[atomi]

I've never received a formal professionalism demerit or similar. Probably because I stopped engaging in informal conversation, wearing clothing that was expressive, making eye contact with the opposite sex, or generally have an opinion on any topic. It goes without saying that humor - that most mortal of all sins - is haram.

We've got a great big board in our campus gym saying that failing to re-rack weights is a professionalism issue. We got another that says taking a clipboard (the $.99) from the library is a professionalism issue and "act of gross misconduct". We got a butch-haircut radfem with a bunch of pubs about how biased men are who conducts unbiased title 9 investigations and hands out professionalism citations almost exclusively to white males for tacky crap like feet on table during low-intensity group work.

Do I resent the above? Yes, with utterly frothing contempt.

But damn do they love them public dolla$$$

Really doesn't sound much different than the military in regards to how they control your time/schedule and mandate professional behavior down to dress and mannerisms. Clearly not for you as the military is not for everyone -- why did you choose such a strict school?

 

[UGA Non Trad]

It goes without saying that humor - that most mortal of all sins - is haram.

Why do I feel like this isn't a problem?

 

[Newyawk]

Why do I feel like this isn't a problem?

Cuz youre as anal as the rest of them

 

[UGA Non Trad]

Cuz youre as anal as the rest of them

Lol, my mistake. I was implying that having a sense of humor isn't something he has to worry about.

 

[WingedOx]

ah yes I remember that thread well. We had no shortage of posters complaining that getting into trouble for that was because of "SJW political correctness". 🙄

The social justice left today is what clerics were in the 1500s and 1600s; your first amendment rights - along with basically every other form of freedom - were surrendered when you applied to medical school. You then went on to eat not one but two golden calves, and then rebuked one the their high inquisitors by failing to make her feel important.

Whether or not you were actually innocent in the sexual harassment proceeding is irrelevant. For the remainder of your program - assuming you can avoid dismissal - they're going to put you in situations where 1) every little thing gets watched super super closely and 2) be put in situations where you are likely to fail or otherwise have a lapse.

If you have other career options, take them, because odds you get through from here are basically zero. Especially with you clinging to those silly notions of entitlement to due process and equal treatment.

I can occasionally cross the line and be a jerk on this forum, but this is the first time I've ever mocked someone preemptively. I'm kind of impressed, actually.

 

[WingedOx]

We've got a great big board in our campus gym saying that failing to re-rack weights is a professionalism issue.

 

[mehc012]

It's almost as if "having consideration for others" is considered a desirable trait.

 

[NITRAS]

Its a bit of a stretch calling this "disobedience"... he just tried to reason with the attending

The situations he described was the height of arrogance. If you can't follow instructions, you aren't doing any procedures with me. You'll harm a patient and/or yourself.

I would have tossed him out, too.

 

[Newyawk]

The situations he described was the height of arrogance. If you can't follow instructions, you aren't doing any procedures with me. You'll harm a patient and/or yourself.

I would have tossed him out, too.

Disobedience would be "no i think it should be done this way, Dr. X, not that way". What he said was "my left hand hurts but im doing it the same way with my right". If you cant see the difference between those then youre probably a joy to work with.