Program specific Step scores insight

[bowlofmushypeas]

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I was curious what the reasoning is behind residency programs not posting program-specific match data like step scores, etc. It seems like other than AOA (for certain specialties), places just don't provide that data though it seems like it'd be potentially useful for applicants to roughly gauge how they'd fit into a program.

 

[ohyeahbaby]

I was curious what the reasoning is behind residency programs not posting program-specific match data like step scores, etc. It seems like other than AOA (for certain specialties), places just don't provide that data though it seems like it'd be potentially useful for applicants to roughly gauge how they'd fit into a program.

i've seen people with an hx of a failed step 1 and a failed CK getting interviewed at a program that rejected someone with 160+ on both steps on first try. As med students we're used to aiming for as high as we can get, thinking it's all about scores, AOA, and all the other BS that's been instilled in us over the years. I've noticed after these interviews that they can't care less about your scores (as long as you meet some minimum criteria that's VERY subjective -- and even then they'll modify that criteria for applicants they really want). For example, try landing a texas spot without having been from there, having family there, or at least having a plan to work there. Same with Hawaii, Alaska, etc... i'm starting to ramble, but I guess I'm just saying that even if they wanted to make something like you're suggesting, they simply can't. At least in my opinion.

 

[mvenus929]

I was curious what the reasoning is behind residency programs not posting program-specific match data like step scores, etc. It seems like other than AOA (for certain specialties), places just don't provide that data though it seems like it'd be potentially useful for applicants to roughly gauge how they'd fit into a program.

FWIW--one of my friends has a lower Step 1 score than me (neither of us did fantastic, but we both got over 200). I've been rejected from two programs that he's gotten an interview at (plus put on hold at one more program that he's gotten an interview at), and I've gotten 1 interview that he hasn't heard from yet. So clearly, step 1 scores aren't everything.

 

[gutonc]

I was curious what the reasoning is behind residency programs not posting program-specific match data like step scores, etc. It seems like other than AOA (for certain specialties), places just don't provide that data though it seems like it'd be potentially useful for applicants to roughly gauge how they'd fit into a program.

Because it's not as cut and dried as that and have a specific cut-off would be a generally stupid idea for most programs. I've talked about this before, but the process for programs is iterative. They don't (generally) just throw out all apps with a Step 1 <2XX. And what about somebody (like myself) who has kind of a mediocre Step 1 but a much better Step 2 and is AOA or has a PhD? Dumping people like that because of one test score is potentially stupid.

It's not really useful to applicants. What is useful is talking to advisors and just applying.

 

[bowlofmushypeas]

Definitely agree with postings thus far. However, I do think there is a rough correlation between competitiveness of a place and their average scores though. For instance, a program where the average is a 250 is going to be relatively more competitive than one where the average is 220. Even when we applied for undergrad, places posted their average SAT scores even though that certainly was not the predominant driver of whether an applicant received an interview or not. It was just there to give you a rough idea.

 

[gutonc]

Definitely agree with postings thus far. However, I do think there is a rough correlation between competitiveness of a place and their average scores though. For instance, a program where the average is a 250 is going to be relatively more competitive than one where the average is 220. Even when we applied for undergrad, places posted their average SAT scores even though that certainly was not the predominant driver of whether an applicant received an interview or not. It was just there to give you a rough idea.

But you didn't ask for averages. You asked for cutoffs.

And I would argue that a list of where current residents went to med school would actually be more useful as a tool to help applicants. I know people from my (mediocre) school who scored 40 points higher than me on Step 1 but got similar interviews. And since the Steps get re-scaled at every administration, comparing between years becomes difficult.

 

[bowlofmushypeas]

But you didn't ask for averages. You asked for cutoffs.

And I would argue that a list of where current residents went to med school would actually be more useful as a tool to help applicants. I know people from my (mediocre) school who scored 40 points higher than me on Step 1 but got similar interviews. And since the Steps get re-scaled at every administration, comparing between years becomes difficult.

Oh, sorry if my initial posting was unclear--when I said step scores, I had averages in mind. I suppose others probably wonder about cutoffs as well though I don't think many programs are black and white about these. I recently interviewed at a place and found out that they had super high step 1/2 averages, which I wasn't expecting and was admittedly a bit intimidated by.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm glad it's not reported.

Because if it were reported, it would immediately become a source of competition.

My program takes 6 residents per year. Which means if they take an applicant who is otherwise amazing but has a 225 on their Step I, it would significantly bring down the class average. So if the program were incentivized to keep their board score averages high, they would be disincentivized from taking this outstanding applicant.

 

[IMPD]

I was curious what the reasoning is behind residency programs not posting program-specific match data like step scores, etc. It seems like other than AOA (for certain specialties), places just don't provide that data though it seems like it'd be potentially useful for applicants to roughly gauge how they'd fit into a program.

Look at your medical school match list and the residency's match lists for the past 3 years. That will tell you all you need to know.

As for judging your competitiveness before you apply, this is a point that gutonc makes repeatedly and hopefully to some avail.

If you want to know if you're competitive for a program - APPLY.

I know that our years of being conditioned to only ask out those people we already know are going to say YES has ruined all of us for taking chances, but that is exactly what you have to do to maximize your Match chances. Because the only way you get a spot is by applying, then interviewing....

I sit through day after day with my interviewers who have the same *&^% problem. "We love this kid, but I'm afraid he might not come here, so we're marking him down". No. Stop that. Just stop it.

Programs also have to "take a chance" and rank kids that "might" go elsewhere. I have seriously considered getting rid of anyone who interviews for me that says this one more time.