Programs with Minimum GRE Scores

[thewesternsky]

Hi everyone... Hoping people can offer suggestions. I'll be applying to Ph.D. programs in clinical psych in the fall, and I've noticed a few schools (three so far) have notes like this on their websites:

"Faculty in Clinical Psychology are looking for scores at the 85th percentile or higher on EACH of the GRE subtests."

"Scores greater than 80% on all components of the General GRE are normally required."

I was originally happy with most of my GRE scores (97th percentile verbal, 78th percentile quant, 32nd percentile Analytic Writing, and 91st percentile psych). I'm not too worried about the quant being just under 80th percentile-- though I think with more studying I could bring it into the 80th-85th range. I am worried, though, about my score on the analytic writing. I know I could improve that score if I took the test again, but I 'm not sure I could bring it up to 80th percentile. So, my question to you: If an applicant has fairly good grades and research experience... Do you think clinical faculty would overlook a lower score on one section of the GRE? Is it worth it to take the test again, or would taking it a second time and getting only marginally better scores just look bad?

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[irish80122]

I don't think I would re-take, other than to possibly bump up the writing score. What I would do is first call the program and see if they actually treat it as a cutoff. I know several programs who have "recommended" scores which are below their average, so what does that tell you. If they are clinical programs, look at their full disclosure data and see what scores students are coming in with. That will tell you how you look, but I am guessing you will be okay on the V and Q.

Long story short, if they are hard cutoffs and the full disclosure backs that up, then I wouldn't apply there. However, if they are not hard cutoffs or the full disclosure doesn't back them up, I would consider it.

Lastly, think about the type of program which would require 85th percentile on all your GRE components... there is something that just rubs me the wrong way with that. I mean, I can understand saying above 1200, or something like that, but to break it down that much and to have them be that high seems a bit ludicrous. Even if I could fill my program completely with people that have those test scores, I think I would be missing out on a lot of good applicants who bring a lot to the table. That is just me, though.

 

[psychplease]

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[Sorg1123]

I did well on the quant and verbal sects (1430), but bombed the writing sect with a 4.5 I thought this might be an issue and considered retaking the test. In the end I figured the admissions committee would have a sample of my writing (PS) that they could evaluate for themselves so I put a lot of effort toward writing a great essay (without time constraints). In all my interviews my writing score never came up and I was offered admission to a prog that claims to have a "cut off" at 5. As you know, this is just one part of your application and by far not the most important. Your strength in other areas will more than make up for your writing score. Good luck and never take the GRE again. Ever.

-word

 

[JockNerd]

Sorg-- how did you prepare?

The strongest predictor of scores on the writing section is essay length. The essays are marked in literally a matter of seconds; clever sentence or essay construction and the strength of arguments doesn't really help you much. Just make sure you have no serious or obvious spelling or grammar errors, some kind of intro and conclusion, and transition sentences, and then WRITEWRITEWRITE. It worked in my case--I yakked on for the entire time allotted, never stopping no matter what I thought of the argument I was writing, and I did great (5.5).

GREs can be flexible for admissions. But, this and the other thread about GREs make me want to mention one word of warning to applicants. The really big funding--nice fellowships--are often decided on the basis of things more concrete than "fit" with the program--things like GRE and GPA. An extra two months of studying hard might be the difference between a 1200 and a 1450, which can be the difference between a $10000 assistantship and a $19000 fellowship. Sounds like a worthy investment to me!

 

[Sorg1123]

Sorg-- how did you prepare?

An extra two months of studying hard might be the difference between a 1200 and a 1450, which can be the difference between a $10000 assistantship and a $19000 fellowship. Sounds like a worthy investment to me!

I admit that I did not prepare for the writing section nearly as much as the other sections. I think I wrote 6-8 essays total vs an ungodly amount of practice tests in the math and verb parts. Not smart. I didn't know that about essay length. In essay writing I usually try to say more with less. Oh, well. It's not a big shock to me that the GRE is f'n nutty.

I agree with the fellowship motivation. My high general scores clearly helped me get offered fellowships at some programs (one actually stated during the interview that GREs were the biggest factor in making their decison on awarding fellowships (not on admissions)). Getting an offer is great, but fellowships are icing on the cake!

 

[thewesternsky]

Thanks so much for the comments, everyone. I really appreciate them. I'm still not sure if I'm going to re-take the test or not, but you brought up some really good points that I'll take into consideration.

I also appreciate JockNerd's comment about length mattering on AW-- That really helps. I barely studied at all for that section the first time I took the test. Also, the time pressure definitely got to me. So if I do end up taking it again, I'll make sure to practice a lot... and I suppose that reading a few more sample essays might help too.

 

[amy203]

Bleck. That's a tough one. On the one hand, most schools don't place that much weight on the writing section. It's still pretty new, so most schools aren't sure how to interpret scores, and there are so many better ways of evaluating writing skills. On the other hand, 37th percentile is pretty low, and you still have a lot of time before applying, so you could take it again. On the other hand, odds are pretty good your awesome verbal score will drop the second time around. I think that section of test has a lot to do with luck once you get into the upper range. I'm not sure it's worth ending up with a lower verbal or quant score (which are much more important) just for a higher writing score.

I think I would go with Irish's advice and call a few programs.

 

[amy203]

I was offered admission to a prog that claims to have a "cut off" at 5. -word

I'm not sure if it's still up, but the SDSU/UCSD website used to say that they only accepted applicants with Psych GRE scores of a 650 or above. Then, when you look at their full disclosure data, the mean score for admitted students is a 600.

 

[Sorg1123]

I'm not sure if it's still up, but the SDSU/UCSD website used to say that they only accepted applicants with Psych GRE scores of a 650 or above. Then, when you look at their full disclosure data, the mean score for admitted students is a 600.

That's pretty funny. I don't remember seeing that.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Q & V seem to be much more important than the writing. I wouldn't stress too much, since your combined is still pretty/very good.

-t

 

[psychwanabe]

Thanks so much for the comments, everyone. I really appreciate them. I'm still not sure if I'm going to re-take the test or not, but you brought up some really good points that I'll take into consideration.

Bear in mind that if you do choose to retake it, your schools will receive both sets of scores and will likely average the two. If you happen to drop on Q or V, this could hurt you.
I'm with Sorg, I can't even imaging taking it again!

 

[JockNerd]

Bear in mind that if you do choose to retake it, your schools will receive both sets of scores and will likely average the two. If you happen to drop on Q or V, this could hurt you.
I'm with Sorg, I can't even imaging taking it again!

Are you sure about that? I only know two people who took the GREs twice, but they were both happy because the vast majority of places they applied to took the higher of the two scores. I was under the impression that was the most common way of doing it.

Anyone who took the GREs twice care to say whether most schools average, take the highest, or take the latest scores?

 

[paramour]

Are you sure about that? I only know two people who took the GREs twice, but they were both happy because the vast majority of places they applied to took the higher of the two scores. I was under the impression that was the most common way of doing it.

Anyone who took the GREs twice care to say whether most schools average, take the highest, or take the latest scores?

As with everything else, it depends. Some programs will take the highest score for each section, whereas others will average it. Check with the program.

 

[psychRA]

In general, apply anyway even if your numbers are lower. My sense is that most programs have recommended minimum scores and GPAs, but will also evaluate your application based on its other components. For those schools, if your GRE is below their suggested range but you have a stellar GPA, or publications, or something else in your favor, you will still be considered. My GPA was not great, or even good, but I had other points in my favor, so I'm proof that it is possible to get offers without a 4.0 and a 1400.

With that being said, there are programs that strictly adhere to the minimum scores, and applicants who don't meet the minimums are eliminated in the first round. They will still cash your check, but they won't consider your application. Don't waste your time (and money!) applying to those schools.

 

[Duckygirl]

Bear in mind that if you do choose to retake it, your schools will receive both sets of scores and will likely average the two. If you happen to drop on Q or V, this could hurt you.
I'm with Sorg, I can't even imaging taking it again!

Many schools will state their procedure for interpreting multiple sets of test scores; this is most often: 1) the highest scores of any set, or 2) the most recent set. In fact, I've never come across a clinical program that stated that they would average applicants' scores. The GRE website talks about this averaging business, but I've never seen it. If this were the case, people would be more strongly cautioned to take the GRE only once and twice as only a necessity- like the LSAT.

 

[paramour]

Many schools will state their procedure for interpreting multiple sets of test scores; this is most often: 1) the highest scores of any set, or 2) the most recent set. In fact, I've never come across a clinical program that stated that they would average applicants' scores. The GRE website talks about this averaging business, but I've never seen it. If this were the case, people would be more strongly cautioned to take the GRE only once and twice as only a necessity- like the LSAT.

I have seen it, and, yes, they were doctoral clinical psych programs. It may not be the majority of programs but it does happen . . . so, once again, check your prospective programs. THEY will be able to tell you what they will do with multiple scores more than any individual on this board.

And, for the record, I was cautioned against taking the GRE multiple times for just this reason.