Pros and cons of Podiatry

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coolguy53

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Are salaries increasing and is this profession needed in the right direction after va legislation was signed?

Also those who are Podiatrists what is the best aspect of your job that give you career satisfaction?


Have you ever been looked down upon because pod school is easier to get into than md school from your colleagues?

Do you think you get the respect you deserve being a podiatrist?
 
hypermobility said:
Have you ever used the search function?

Have you ever scrolled down to read the various threads regarding these exact same topics?
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I have but I want to know more from today's pods because there is an era of doom and gloom with this profession I see heavily on this forum.
 
coolguy53 said:
I have but I want to know more from today's pods because there is an era of doom and gloom with this profession I see heavily on this forum.
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Don’t base your want to go into a career off of a forum where you don’t even know if people are actual pods. Go talk to and shadow as many pods/doctors who work with pods as much as you can. My personal experiences have been completely different than most of the negative forum posts.
 
coolguy53 said:
I have but I want to know more from today's pods because there is an era of doom and gloom with this profession I see heavily on this forum.
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These same topics were discussed here multiple times within the last year. You can find a lot of valuable info on this forum using a search function.
 
coolguy53 said:
Have you ever been looked down upon because pod school is easier to get into than md school from your colleagues?
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There are thousands of jobs that are easier to get than becoming a podiatrist plus you might not study for so long and get into so much debt. People are respected for what they do and where they are. You earn respect whether you are teacher, waitress, hotel housekeeper, accountant or janitor at high school. It is easy to become an LPN, though I respect them when I come to the clinic to see my doc. I respect teachers that taught me in school and I respect plumber that gets to my house to fix plumbing issues. Everyone is needed and deserves respect if they do their job honestly and with effort. Choose a path you will be happy with.
 
coolguy53 said:
Are salaries increasing and is this profession needed in the right direction after va legislation was signed?

Also those who are Podiatrists what is the best aspect of your job that give you career satisfaction?


Have you ever been looked down upon because pod school is easier to get into than md school from your colleagues?

Do you think you get the respect you deserve being a podiatrist?
Click to expand...

I don't think salaries have increased over the past couple of decades to adequately compensate the time, cost, and effort required to become a podiatrist.

The best aspect for me is the ability to be a trusted resource for patients with foot/ankle problems, and the satisfaction to apply my knowledge and training to manage the problems.

Yes, I have been looked down upon, primarily from some orthopedic surgeons. Fact is we did not go to medical school, we went to podiatry school. And we did not take the usmle or comlex. I am OK being a podiatrist, and at the same time I know that my service is very much needed even when there are orthopedic surgeons available.

I don't base my happiness upon the respect given by others, but from a financial perspective I don't think commercial health insurance companies give us the respect we deserve. But that's our own fault as a group for signing up for their plans.
 
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Do you think DPMs need to have a 3 year residency, or would they be ok practicing right out of school like dentists?

Creflo said:
I don't think salaries have increased over the past couple of decades to adequately compensate the time, cost, and effort required to become a podiatrist.

The best aspect for me is the ability to be a trusted resource for patients with foot/ankle problems, and the satisfaction to apply my knowledge and training to manage the problems.

Yes, I have been looked down upon, primarily from some orthopedic surgeons. Fact is we did not go to medical school, we went to podiatry school. And we did not take the usmle or comlex. I am OK being a podiatrist, and at the same time I know that my service is very much needed even when there are orthopedic surgeons available.

I don't base my happiness upon the respect given by others, but from a financial perspective I don't think commercial health insurance companies give us the respect we deserve. But that's our own fault as a group for signing up for their plans.
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GypsyHummus said:
Do you think DPMs need to have a 3 year residency, or would they be ok practicing right out of school like dentists?
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Why would you even want that if you were a podiatrist? Dentists are not physicians and some states do require atleast a year dental residency. How on earth would you be able to do foot and ankle reconstruction or orthopedics with no residency? Lol. I’d imagine it to be extremely tough to cut into bones and flesh with the slightest clue of how to actually do the surgery.
 
I was thinking model it like dental option. Leave surgery as an option, like how dentists have the option to become oral surgeons/physicians or do Ortho.

Do you think primary care Podiatry needs a 3 year residency? Corns calluses, nails, I frowns, lumps bumps, plantar fasciitis, etc.

med2345 said:
Why would you even want that if you were a podiatrist? Dentists are not physicians and some states do require atleast a year dental residency. How on earth would you be able to do foot and ankle reconstruction or orthopedics with no residency? Lol. I’d imagine it to be extremely tough to cut into bones and flesh with the slightest clue of how to actually do the surgery.
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GypsyHummus said:
I was thinking model it like dental option. Leave surgery as an option, like how dentists have the option to become oral surgeons/physicians or do Ortho.

Do you think primary care Podiatry needs a 3 year residency? Corns calluses, nails, I frowns, lumps bumps, plantar fasciitis, etc.
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Primary care no, but I think the 3 year residency is still needed so there isn’t a big disparity between who can do what within podiatry. I’d rather have all podiatrist be skilled (later on salaries and respect will follow)... than people still be confused on who can do when and what. I think it’s better.
 
Just to add more controversy and to throw this thread more off topic, I think podiatry is headed towards two paths of podiatric surgeon vs podiatrist where there will be 4 vs 1-2 year training programs, boarded by the different organizations. Less dilution of surgical cases to those that aren't interested.
 
What makes you think so?

AttackNME said:
Just to add more controversy and to throw this thread more off topic, I think podiatry is headed towards two paths of podiatric surgeon vs podiatrist where there will be 4 vs 1-2 year training programs, boarded by the different organizations. Less dilution of surgical cases to those that aren't interested.
Click to expand...
 
AttackNME said:
Just to add more controversy and to throw this thread more off topic, I think podiatry is headed towards two paths of podiatric surgeon vs podiatrist where there will be 4 vs 1-2 year training programs, boarded by the different organizations. Less dilution of surgical cases to those that aren't interested.
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If that change happens, I am fine with it; as long as I am compensated fairly for those 4 years of training.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I was thinking model it like dental option. Leave surgery as an option, like how dentists have the option to become oral surgeons/physicians or do Ortho.

Do you think primary care Podiatry needs a 3 year residency? Corns calluses, nails, I frowns, lumps bumps, plantar fasciitis, etc.
Click to expand...

This is a model that I could see being a natural evolution that will exist long before the AACPM or COTH makes any curricular changes . DPMs tend to, generally, niche out towards the poles. At one end of the spectrum, heavy rearfoot, TAR's, external fixation, charcot, etc- and on the opposite end ( i hesitate to use 'lower end', as these cases aren't any less valuable in terms of ensuring positive outcomes and often more lucrative)- your bread and butter corns, callus, chip &clips, orthotics, the odd nail avulsion here and there, and then a full or half day in surgery doing bunions and hammertoes 1x/week.

As a profession, I think we're standing at an evolutionary fork in the road, with many clammering for relentless pursuit of the ever elusive 'parity' pathway (which will never be fully achieved IMO solely due to the fact the definition/metrics to determine parity vary widely depending on who you ask) , or this sort of, hyperniche route as described above. I think there is merit to both cases, but ultimately the latter is the path of least resistance and thus our most likely future as I see it. Definitely not a bad thing- I know plenty of filthy-comfortable dentists. It also provides a natural solution to some of the persistent, pressing issues (ABPM vs ABFAS board certs, non RRA residency slots...)
 
Do you think residency requirements will change again? I was under the assumption that is what led to the crisis back in 2012-2013 was changing from a 2 to 3 year residency without enough to go around.

I would also be interested to see what happens with midlevels and podiatry. Obviously, PAs and NPs cant do surgery, but they could certainly do injections, corns callus, nails avulsions, primary care pod stuff. How much foot surgery needs to be done? Is it enough to make a career out of it? There are already NP cardiologists, how much longer till they turn their gaze to the foot and ankle? Granted, ew feet will always keep some away.

TimmyTurner said:
This is a model that I could see being a natural evolution that will exist long before the AACPM or COTH makes any curricular changes . DPMs tend to, generally, niche out towards the poles. At one end of the spectrum, heavy rearfoot, TAR's, external fixation, charcot, etc- and on the opposite end ( i hesitate to use 'lower end', as these cases aren't any less valuable in terms of ensuring positive outcomes and often more lucrative)- your bread and butter corns, callus, chip &clips, orthotics, the odd nail avulsion here and there, and then a full or half day in surgery doing bunions and hammertoes 1x/week.

As a profession, I think we're standing at an evolutionary fork in the road, with many clammering for relentless pursuit of the ever elusive 'parity' pathway (which will never be fully achieved IMO solely due to the fact the definition/metrics to determine parity vary widely depending on who you ask) , or this sort of, hyperniche route as described above. I think there is merit to both cases, but ultimately the latter is the path of least resistance and thus our most likely future as I see it. Definitely not a bad thing- I know plenty of filthy-comfortable dentists. It also provides a natural solution to some of the persistent, pressing issues (ABPM vs ABFAS board certs, non RRA residency slots...)
Click to expand...
 
GypsyHummus said:
Do you think residency requirements will change again? I was under the assumption that is what led to the crisis back in 2012-2013 was changing from a 2 to 3 year residency without enough to go around.

I would also be interested to see what happens with midlevels and podiatry. Obviously, PAs and NPs cant do surgery, but they could certainly do injections, corns callus, nails avulsions, primary care pod stuff. How much foot surgery needs to be done? Is it enough to make a career out of it? There are already NP cardiologists, how much longer till they turn their gaze to the foot and ankle? Granted, ew feet will always keep some away.
Click to expand...

I was speaking in the way, distant future on that. Don't see any of it transpiring anytime soon, and who knows if it even will.
The midlevel provider bubble will be popping soon. Yeah, they fall under the 'Threat' in a SWOT analysis to us, sure. However.... while they serve a vital role in healthcare, theyve experienced enormous popularity and really uncapped growth for the past, geez, 10, 15 years? Mostly because that was a niche that was needed and not filled. Now, with all these fast track programs, the pendulum is bound to swing back in the other direction. Soon. The quality of the median midlevel provider, GENERALLY SPEAKING (there are tremendous midlevel providers I'd trust over many MD/DO's), is going to drop and hospitals will notice and tighten or restrict their roles and deployment. It sounds great when you're saving $$$ on the front end but it doesn't matter all too much if you're paying out the a$$ on the back end settling out of court for an over site.
^Please don't misinterpret any of this as bashing midlevels. Its just the law of averages
 
coolguy53 said:
Are salaries increasing and is this profession needed in the right direction after va legislation was signed?

Also those who are Podiatrists what is the best aspect of your job that give you career satisfaction?
As a Podiatrist, I get great satisfaction from helping people who are in a great deal of pain or may lose (all or part of) their foot.


Have you ever been looked down upon because pod school is easier to get into than md school from your colleagues?
Here in Northern NJ, most of the MD's seem to treat us with respect. That respect is not given to us though, it has to be earned. We get referrals from the internists all the time. There is one Orthopedic group (that has a foot fellow) that refers to me weekly for non surgical care.


Do you think you get the respect you deserve being a podiatrist?
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If you do good work, the other specialties will respect you.
 
Pros: people will call you doctor.

Cons: you may in fact be an orthotics salesman
 
Pros: Great pay potential. Much of the work we perform is rewarding.

Cons: Few new employers (out of residency) offer the patient volume/opportunity new grads need to generate higher income. As a result high turnover and lower starting salaries for those qualified and ready to produce.
 
can anyone comment on how hard it is to find a job after residency? How long one tends to wait until being employed especially in the ny area?
 
JewOnThis said:
Podiatry is crap show. I would rather see my kids become a np or a pa
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air bud said:
If you are looking for a job in NY, might I suggest changing your name to KiaLova619?
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What makes you guys say that? I've read that the saturation of pods in major cities like NYC or LA can be bad, but once you go to more mid-sized cities it really shouldn't be hard to find a decent paying ($150-200K) job, right?

It's probably better to be going to school to become a podiatrist rather than a pharmacist, optometrist, or dentist where the saturation is horrible no matter where you go.
 
Yazo said:
What makes you guys say that? I've read that the saturation of pods in major cities like NYC or LA can be bad, but once you go to more mid-sized cities it really shouldn't be hard to find a decent paying ($150-200K) job, right?

It's probably better to be going to school to become a podiatrist rather than a pharmacist, optometrist, or dentist where the saturation is horrible no matter where you go.
Click to expand...

These posters are current practicing podiatrists and so am I.

Are you?

If you are in podiatry school or in residency then you really have no perspective to offer an opinion on this.

Is it easier to get a well paying job in the middle of nowhere? You bet your ass. But can you tolerate living in rural areas or places where there isn’t much to do but to kick rocks down the street?

But just because you are targeting these rural areas NOW with your job search doesn’t necessarily mean there is anyone hiring either...

You got to find someone looking to hire you whether it be private practice pod, ortho group, or hospital (your best shot and outcome).

The ortho group jobs are over for the most part for podiatry. They want their own (foot and ankle ortho) to offload the call schedule and just because they don’t really like you (the podiatrist) that much
 
CutsWithFury said:
These posters are current practicing podiatrists and so am I.

Are you?

If you are in podiatry school or in residency then you really have no perspective to offer an opinion on this.

Is it easier to get a well paying job in the middle of nowhere? You bet your ass. But can you tolerate living in rural areas or places where there isn’t much to do but to kick rocks down the street?

But just because you are targeting these rural areas NOW with your job search doesn’t necessarily mean there is anyone hiring either...

You got to find someone looking to hire you whether it be private practice pod, ortho group, or hospital (your best shot and outcome).

The ortho group jobs are over for the most part for podiatry. They want their own (foot and ankle ortho) to offload the call schedule and just because they don’t really like you (the podiatrist) that much
Click to expand...
Would you say that the field is still worth it for young undergraduates to consider? For example, I'd be fine making $130K working for some podiatrist. Is that a feasible job to hope for or would it be better to try and go MD/DO despite feeling a call to podiatry?
 
Yazo said:
Would you say that the field is still worth it for young undergraduates to consider? For example, I'd be fine making $130K working for some podiatrist. Is that a feasible job to hope for or would it be better to try and go MD/DO despite feeling a call to podiatry?
Click to expand...

You say that now but when you are going through it professionally only making 130k annually is not very good. After taxes and paying your bills you won’t have very much money left. Try raising a family on that. This isn’t 1990. 130k doesn’t go very far. Imagine how far 130k will take you in 2026-2027 (if you were to go to podiatry school in 2019).

If you can get into MD/DO then I would go that route in a heartbeat.
 
Yazo said:
Would you say that the field is still worth it for young undergraduates to consider? For example, I'd be fine making $130K working for some podiatrist. Is that a feasible job to hope for or would it be better to try and go MD/DO despite feeling a call to podiatry?
Click to expand...

No you wouldn't.
 
I have two family members in orthopedics and i trained with a handful of them during residency and fellowship. At my current hospital job i'm the foot and ankle doctor in an orthopedic group. I've been practicing over 3 years now. Ill say this about it. Nobody in ortho wants to go into foot and ankle for fellowship. At least nobody talented. In fact I was assisting on a Pilon last week when the trauma guy told me that the AOFAS foot and ankle fellowships are not even getting filled? Why go into one of the least paid sub specialties of ortho where you're competing with podiatrist? when you can do total joint, spine, ortho trauma or sports medicine. And i completely disagree with DPM ortho jobs going away. This is highly subjective and regional based but where I practice at, I can tell you orthos love hiring DPM's for a fraction of the price and the call situation is usually resolved with the Pod having to take his own calls. some of these groups will have two pods and the podiatrist will split the calls. Sure, you're not going to make partner easily but this is how it is and how i see it.

and yes 130k is a complete joke. I'd quit and become a soulless rep at that point.
 
I agree with the statement about regions and ortho/pods. But I wouldn't bet the farm on that job being around forever. The times when an ortho group will hire a pod is usually in a smaller independent group. All it takes it a larger university or similar to come in snatch them up and within a few years pods are out the door. I saw it happen in my residency and I have 1 friend who this has happened to. Ancedotal yes, but since when did we start using numbers?
 
hematosis said:
I have two family members in orthopedics and i trained with a handful of them during residency and fellowship. At my current hospital job i'm the foot and ankle doctor in an orthopedic group. I've been practicing over 3 years now. Ill say this about it. Nobody in ortho wants to go into foot and ankle for fellowship. At least nobody talented. In fact I was assisting on a Pilon last week when the trauma guy told me that the AOFAS foot and ankle fellowships are not even getting filled? Why go into one of the least paid sub specialties of ortho where you're competing with podiatrist? when you can do total joint, spine, ortho trauma or sports medicine. And i completely disagree with DPM ortho jobs going away. This is highly subjective and regional based but where I practice at, I can tell you orthos love hiring DPM's for a fraction of the price and the call situation is usually resolved with the Pod having to take his own calls. some of these groups will have two pods and the podiatrist will split the calls. Sure, you're not going to make partner easily but this is how it is and how i see it.

and yes 130k is a complete joke. I'd quit and become a soulless rep at that point.
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Definitely regional. Heck, I'm in a large metro where one half is dominated by F/A Ortho and 20 miles away in the other half there is 1-2, the rest are DPMs, 2 of which are partners in an ortho group and both are hiring a second DPM. That may actually be the path of least resistance into an orthopedic group, find one with a podiatrist already in the group and pray that DPM is busy enough that he/she feels they are ready to hire another. Otherwise it's usually smaller groups with sports and joints docs. They do zero elective foot and ankle stuff, and will even send out some foot trauma they don't want.

Like I mentioned in my other post, the mindset between groups run by MD/DOs and those private practice or small podiatry groups are totally different. The former is going to let you eat what you kill much sooner if not right away and have minimal "buy-in" for partnership (if a buy in even exists at all, some just make you a partner after X months). The latter is typically hiring you as a revenue stream. Good for them, they built a business and if they can find someone to take the job then I don't blame them. New grads need to stop taking these jobs, but they won't since there aren't enough opportunities otherwise and very few have the desire or the wherewithal to open their own practice.
 
dtrack22 said:
Definitely regional. Heck, I'm in a large metro where one half is dominated by F/A Ortho and 20 miles away in the other half there is 1-2, the rest are DPMs, 2 of which are partners in an ortho group and both are hiring a second DPM. That may actually be the path of least resistance into an orthopedic group, find one with a podiatrist already in the group and pray that DPM is busy enough that he/she feels they are ready to hire another. Otherwise it's usually smaller groups with sports and joints docs. They do zero elective foot and ankle stuff, and will even send out some foot trauma they don't want.

Like I mentioned in my other post, the mindset between groups run by MD/DOs and those private practice or small podiatry groups are totally different. The former is going to let you eat what you kill much sooner if not right away and have minimal "buy-in" for partnership (if a buy in even exists at all, some just make you a partner after X months). The latter is typically hiring you as a revenue stream. Good for them, they built a business and if they can find someone to take the job then I don't blame them. New grads need to stop taking these jobs, but they won't since there aren't enough opportunities otherwise and very few have the desire or the wherewithal to open their own practice.
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I have seen more and more young docs open their own doors in the last couple of years then we have seen in the past. I would open my own doors if I lost my current job.
 
Pros: they call you a doctor

Cons: but you’re Al Bundy selling shoes

IMG_2903.JPG
 
How long would it take post grad to open a practice?

Work under someone 3-4 years then open one? Its the goal for me, but my only issue is getting a good enough deal to save for that. How easy is it to get a loan to start a small practice in your areas?
 
Nowehjose said:
How long would it take post grad to open a practice?

Work under someone 3-4 years then open one? Its the goal for me, but my only issue is getting a good enough deal to save for that. How easy is it to get a loan to start a small practice in your areas?
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I have friends who have bought day 1 - have the existing dude stay on for 6 months-year to show you the ropes.
 
air bud said:
I have friends who have bought day 1 - have the existing dude stay on for 6 months-year to show you the ropes.
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Anyone know a rough figure on the cost of opening up a practice? Is it the same as dental?
 
To the podiatrists on the forum, do you feel like you will ever have a hard time finding a job/ever be faced with saturation concerns like other non MD/DO health care professionals?

MD/DO is fairly recession proof for the most part. Is it the same with Podiatry?

Are Pods “in demand”? All the websites I visit cite baby boomers causing increase demand, but i didn’t know if that plays out practically.

I’ve heard horror stories about other non MD/DO professional programs like optometry and dentistry in large cities, with Pharmacy having the worst of it so much so that full time work is considered 32 hours and wages are dropping to 50$/hr. There are so many health professional schools opening up pumping out new students every year. I didn’t know if podiatry will feel the crunch because the numbers of pods graduating are lower.
 
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