Pros and Cons of your DO School

Started by Ilikescience
Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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Mr Kenobi said:
The hospital networks affiliated with MU-COM for rotations are at some of the best hospitals in the state.
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I've heard some differing opinions on this. I work at the big system affiliated with the school and a lot of the docs I work with are still not sure how exactly it's going to work. It will be interesting to see how everything pans out, though knowing those affiliations are there is very encouraging.
 
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metenuzer said:
I am going to guess you are in the first two years? Just wait until you get mandatory rural rotations and ER during your audition months in fourth year and are left with no time to experience non-core specialties or audition. And when you try to approach admin with your concerns you just get screamed at.
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Yep. Just started.

Screamed at? Lol.

Do you really go to NSUCOM? There have been some administrative changes, but no one screams here.
 
YankeeCandle1141 said:
Dude the actual title of this thread should be

"Current students: please bitch and exaggerate all about the problems at your school"
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Administration has been nice so far.

LECOM was terrible, however. I ate a sandwich after my interview and got yelled at. Security was terrible, too. Some Randy Tooth telling me I had to sign in and that he had to escort me.

And the clowns...
 
metenuzer said:
I am going to guess you are in the first two years? Just wait until you get mandatory rural rotations and ER during your audition months in fourth year and are left with no time to experience non-core specialties or audition. And when you try to approach admin with your concerns you just get screamed at.
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Lucky enough my rurals are nice and early. EM is a tad early too, but my golden months are clear and free.
 
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Anyone got any updates on Rowan? or MSUCOM?

PCOM and MSUCOM are my top 2 DO choices, and the previous 3 pages on this thread just scared the **** outta me about PCOM right after that one post from 2005 got me really excited 🙁
 
Mr Kenobi said:
The basic science faculty is solid at MU-COM--with a few exceptions of course. They have some of the best in their respective fields--Richard Klabunde for CV phys...dude literally wrote the book. Neuro block is taught by IU's neuro faculty etc

The "faculty overhaul" consists of some shuffling of power around in the OMM dept (which is probably a good thing but who knows) and a few clinical faculty that have left for various reasons. One took a PD job at a program in Michigan and the other two are a married couple. These clinical faculty who left had a lot of responsibility tho when it came to the clinical medicine stuff in the first 2 years tho...however the clinical faculty that remains is really solid. So maybe "overhaul" is too strong a descriptor. But some changes for sure. I feel that all of these changes will only make the program better tho to be honest.



You don't get why everyone acts like its the best thing to happen to DO world cause you didn't come to your interview. Too bad you missed out. haha just kidding. Marian has the right ingredients to become a seriously legit contender in the upper echelon of DO schools tho. But obviously it will be up to the administration if they want to take it there. There is only 1 other med school in the state (granted it is huge) and there is a cooperation between the two schools. My school assigned sports medicine mentor is an MD from said MD school. The hospital networks affiliated with MU-COM for rotations are at some of the best hospitals in the state. But as you mention, it is a newer school and things are unpredictable, so who knows.
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I think just about every DO school has a solid basic science faculty and program, its the clinical education that differentiates the good schools from the bad ones, and only a handful of DO schools in my opinion offer a clinical education comparable to an LCME MD school. The rapid expansion of new DO schools has created even more schools that have subpar clinical programs.

People are too easily impressed when they see a building with shiny labs and libraries, lecture halls, they forget that medical is a clinical science, and your clinical education is a crucial part of your training.

While your school states they have made affiliations with top hospitals in your state, I hope they follow up with their promises but given how things work at most schools most students will cross their fingers.
 
Seth Joo said:
I think just about every DO school has a solid basic science faculty and program, its the clinical education that differentiates the good schools from the bad ones, and only a handful of DO schools in my opinion offer a clinical education comparable to an LCME MD school. The rapid expansion of new DO schools has created even more schools that have subpar clinical programs.

People are too easily impressed when they see a building with shiny labs and libraries, lecture halls, they forget that medical is a clinical science, and your clinical education is a crucial part of your training.

While your school states they have made affiliations with top hospitals in your state, I hope they follow up with their promises but given how things work at most schools most students will cross their fingers.
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Ya, I agree.

I've completed 2 rotations so far. Both were alongside IUSM medical students at teaching hospitals for whatever that's worth. I actually think the clinical education at MUCOM will be better than the preclinical education to be honest-at least for my class.
 
Mr Kenobi said:
Ya, I agree.

I've completed 2 rotations so far. Both were alongside IUSM medical students at teaching hospitals for whatever that's worth. I actually think the clinical education at MUCOM will be better than the preclinical education to be honest-at least for my class.
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Well I guess you are lucky but outside of schools like PCOM, MSU, DMU, Ohio, KCUMB, CCOM, Nova, etc, clinical rotations are a crapshoot, I personally think AZCOM has the best clinical rotations of the newer DO schools, some us get to rotate at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale which is pretty unheard of for DOs because most DOs rotate at community hospitals rather than major teaching hospitals. I think its mostly because we are a branch of one of the best DO schools, CCOM.

There are many schools where the clinical rotations spots are located in geographic locales far from the physical basic science campus, I generally do not like this for a number of reasons mostly because it creates a serious disconnect in a student's education, so after your first two years, you never see the people you worked with during your basic science years ever again.
 
Let me just give you all a touch of perspective- your clinical rotations will be what you make of them. The teaching intensity may be a bit different, the number of zebras May be a little shy, but I can tell you that more layers of people btw you and the patient becomes limiting (attending, fellow, resident, intern, you.) I went to a school that gets criticism for rotations that scatter you, but I worked hard, proved myself, and had an amazing experience. I started Intern year with more than a dozen solo central lines, 2 chest tubes, more than 140 intubations. My clinical and procedural skills were far ahead of my co interns.

So summarize for any nervous premed or a newly minted ms1 at a school getting **** on in here... Brush that off, work hard, and good things come.

Edit... If you go to a school that scatters you, and you can plan ahead, you can navigate waaaaaay more auditions than anyone else.
 
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irJanus said:
Let me just give you all a touch of perspective- your clinical rotations will be what you make of them. The teaching intensity may be a bit different, the number of zebras May be a little shy, but I can tell you that more layers of people btw you and the patient becomes limiting (attending, fellow, resident, intern, you.) I went to a school that gets criticism for rotations that scatter you, but I worked hard, proved myself, and had an amazing experience. I started Intern year with more than a dozen solo central lines, 2 chest tubes, more than 140 intubations. My clinical and procedural skills were far ahead of my co interns.

So summarize for any nervous premed or a newly minted ms1 at a school getting **** on in here... Brush that off, work hard, and good things come.

Edit... If you go to a school that scatters you, and you can plan ahead, you can navigate waaaaaay more auditions than anyone else.
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I strongly disagree, with the expansion of so many new schools, most schools see clinical rotations as an after thought even schools that have been around for nearly 20 years still do not have their act together, which is ridiculous given the expense of education. At many schools its like a Caribbean style experience where students are shuffled from one locale to the other, I won't name specific schools because many of them do this.
 
You're what... A week or two into your schooling? Strong opinions with little basis for them. You're more transparent about your thoughts than you think... Feel free to name names.

Anyway, 3rd year resident opinion who's been thru the process in total. I have a touch more experience. Take it for what it's worth.
 
irJanus said:
You're what... A week or two into your schooling? Strong opinions with little basis for them. You're more transparent about your thoughts than you think... Feel free to name names.

Anyway, 3rd year resident opinion who's been thru the process in total. I have a touch more experience. Take it for what it's worth.
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I am a fourth year, that is who I am. Pretty much every school outside of the more established schools such as KCOM, KCUMB, PCOM, CCOM, NSU, Ohio, Oklahoma State, DMU, MSU, have issues with clinical rotations.

A friend of mine at LECOM Erie got a 3 page list of rotation sites for year 3, it didn't really inspire much confidence. Its like they dump people wherever they can.
 
Well I'm excited for whatever residency is blessed with your presence then.

To stay on topic, regardless of the misinformed, the rotations Will be what you make of them. Work hard.
 
lol. who are you to challenge our foremost expert on do schools, seth joo from the ivy league?
seth joo speaks from personal experience as a student at multiple do schools in numerous locales
 
KDVMSPH said:
Come to DCOM 🙂 best school!
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Check back in this May.

It's a good school, I have no major complaints. But there are definitely faults. A lot of long standing faculty have up and left recently, and that's making me a little nervous. At least I'm (kind of) almost done with the Harrogate campus.

Also, second year is so much harder/more work than first. That's probably the case at many schools. But holy hell, I don't even have time to read first aid. We had a stretch of 14 lectures in 3 days last week that killed me ( or at least my test score this morning).
 
@Mad Jack
Hahah if by nooblet you mean OMS-1 then yeah I am one of the nooblets lol

@AsianPersuasion
Since I am an OMS-1 I probably will not give an accurate picture of what the pro's and con's are, these are just my opinions

Pros -
Everyone (faculty, OMS-II, fellow classmates) are extremely nice and willing to help one another out - from orientation to companions (second year mentors), they are happy to help you and answer any questions you might have, and I had a lot - for example, Second years have even posted study guides and tools to help us OMS-I prepare for our upcoming exams, they have shared a drive with the majority of the textbooks in PDF so we don't have to physically buy them if we don't want to, they have held review sessions and tutoring sessions for us in both the sciences and OMM and anatomy, and my classmates have created a drive with shared study guides and things they found helpful. It actually took me awhile to adjust to all of this niceness
*Key point* everyone is willing to share their resources and answer each other's questions

Faculty seem relaxed and personable at the same time they still push you to learn the material. I have had the opportunity to talk to the physicians, fellows, and instructors of our courses for some clarification and you can tell they definitely want us students to understand the material. They all have great personalities and a sense of humor and understand we are med students and tell us we can't be studying all the time

Facilities are well equipped for lecture and have the technology that we need to efficiently work together.

Curriculum - this is kind of a pro and a con. Its setup so that you are grouped into a team of 6 people and this is your group for the year. I believe its similar to LECOM team based learning. You get to learn how to work with your teammates that have all different backgrounds and experiences which is pretty great. Its not like college where you have different classes with a specific subject. Here we learn anatomy (muscles, insertion, origin, innervation,perfusion), immunity system, microbiology, OMM all in the same week and sometimes in the same day. I like this curriculum because we learn how everything is related to one another and its integrated. But it is definitely a lot of material to digest in one day.

CONS
Depending on where you live, its still Maine, so not a huge city type life, but you can still have fun if you know where to look and try new things outdoors wise - close to Portland

I don't think I have experienced much of the school yet being only 5 weeks in so I'll have to get back to you on that. Hopefully it was helpful. Anymore questions just inbox me.
 
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HuskyPride149 said:
@Mad Jack
Hahah if by nooblet you mean OMS-1 then yeah I am one of the nooblets lol

@AsianPersuasion
Since I am an OMS-1 I probably will not give an accurate picture of what the pro's and con's are, these are just my opinions

Pros -
Everyone (faculty, OMS-II, fellow classmates) are extremely nice and willing to help one another out - from orientation to companions (second year mentors), they are happy to help you and answer any questions you might have, and I had a lot - for example, Second years have even posted study guides and tools to help us OMS-I prepare for our upcoming exams, they have shared a drive with the majority of the textbooks in PDF so we don't have to physically buy them if we don't want to, they have held review sessions and tutoring sessions for us in both the sciences and OMM and anatomy, and my classmates have created a drive with shared study guides and things they found helpful. It actually took me awhile to adjust to all of this niceness
*Key point* everyone is willing to share their resources and answer each other's questions

Faculty seem relaxed and personable at the same time they still push you to learn the material. I have had the opportunity to talk to the physicians, fellows, and instructors of our courses for some clarification and you can tell they definitely want us students to understand the material. They all have great personalities and a sense of humor and understand we are med students and tell us we can't be studying all the time

Facilities are well equipped for lecture and have the technology that we need to efficiently work together.

Curriculum - this is kind of a pro and a con. Its setup so that you are grouped into a team of 6 people and this is your group for the year. I believe its similar to LECOM team based learning. You get to learn how to work with your teammates that have all different backgrounds and experiences which is pretty great. Its not like college where you have different classes with a specific subject. Here we learn anatomy (muscles, insertion, origin, innervation,perfusion), immunity system, microbiology, OMM all in the same week and sometimes in the same day. I like this curriculum because we learn how everything is related to one another and its integrated. But it is definitely a lot of material to digest in one day.

CONS
Depending on where you live, its still Maine, so not a huge city type life, but you can still have fun if you know where to look and try new things outdoors wise - close to Portland

I don't think I have experienced much of the school yet being only 5 weeks in so I'll have to get back to you on that. Hopefully it was helpful. Anymore questions just inbox me.
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If you need anything, just ask. First year sucked balls.

And to the person you were replying to- @AsianPersuasion I'll answer any questions honestly.
 
Mad Jack said:
If you need anything, just ask. First year sucked balls.

And to the person you were replying to- @AsianPersuasion I'll answer any questions honestly.
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Thanks, Mad Jack and Husky! hmm...I'm not sure what else to ask, honestly. I followed a lot of what you've posted in the past Mad Jack about the school and I feel like I have a decent idea of what it's like. I won't be applying until next year, and at this point I just want to get in somewhere and I don't think it's really conducive to take 2 gap years for me. I'm just trying to do it right the first time.

Being a doctor is more important to me than the differentiation of MD / DO status. But your post on DO forum got me thinking a lot about how life changes and what you want now may not be what you want later on. I'm pretty certain family medicine or psych is where my heart is at, but I feel like the MD route will open so much more doors that I never knew existed. but with mediocre stats like mine (3.5 and 83% percentile MCAT) I really don't know how my chances are with MD schools. I need to really research and cast a wide net. But like I said, in the end I'm happy with any acceptance and will attend any school that accepts me.
 
Mehd School said:
Check back in this May.

It's a good school, I have no major complaints. But there are definitely faults. A lot of long standing faculty have up and left recently, and that's making me a little nervous. At least I'm (kind of) almost done with the Harrogate campus.

Also, second year is so much harder/more work than first. That's probably the case at many schools. But holy hell, I don't even have time to read first aid. We had a stretch of 14 lectures in 3 days last week that killed me ( or at least my test score this morning).
Click to expand...
at my interview, my interviewer told me that they're missing 2 faculty... were those longstanding faculty really good at teaching?
 
I'm a first year at Nova so can write a brief review, but can't add too much detail. I would say that EVERYTHING that ILoveFood (think that was the name) said in her review still holds true. That review is gold. Read it carefully!

There are certain things I love and hate about Nova.

In the love category:
1) The campus. Honestly, it's one of the most beautiful I've seen.
2) The fact that we get early access to Standardized Patients.
3) My classmates. So far they've been great.
4) The OPP professor is exceptional and I like the course more than I expected.
5) The new dean is great and I generally like her lectures when she gives them.
6) The upper classmen will do their best to help you (they have study tables and such to help you along).

In the hate/dislike category:
1) I'm not a big fan of Davie. It's a hard transition from a big city. It varies from hot/humid to downpours and there are mosquitos and lizards and the like.
2) With a few exceptions, the first year professors have been weak overall imho (I agree with the earlier review that the first year is hell and (based on seeing the second years at least) the second year seems much better (they have a block schedule and not weekly tests).
3) Extra classes / requirements. We have a lot of these. I had to go to a museum the day before my immunology exam, do physician shadowing the day before my physiology exam and the like. I wish, at least for the first semester, they'd cut down on these till people can adapt to the med school workload (especially for non-trad students).
4) I hate the schedule of test after test after test week in and week out. I actually thought I would really like this (less material per test) and it was a large reason I chose Nova, but the problem is if you realize at the time of the first test you aren't studying right or (worse) aren't studying enough, there is little time to troubleshoot.
5) There have been a lot of problems with lectures not recording properly or at all this year. It truly sucks. They are switching systems so this may get better.
6) There are quite a number of students that are remediating first year. With all the requirements it's not too surprising that passing becomes very hard. I feel that often times I'm not given enough time to study. If I were to do it again, I would look for a school with the least extra classes and make sure schools focus on board relevant material.

I can't comment much beyond the above as a first year, but the earlier NSU review is great.

Disclaimer: Everyone is going to have something they like or don't like about their DO school. I chose Nova based on location (didn't get into any of my state schools which I would have gone to in a heartbeat over Nova) and the weekly test schedule (thought it would make things easier). Ironically, both things I actually don't like about the school. I will say this: think long and hard about what you are capable of handling. I liked the idea of many things (classes outside of science... physician shadowing and the like), but now that I am in the midst of it the reality is that we have so little time, I'd rather dedicate it toward core science.


Henry101 said:
Bump...
Someone should do a new one for Nova
Please and thankyou!
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Oh_Gee said:
at my interview, my interviewer told me that they're missing 2 faculty... were those longstanding faculty really good at teaching?
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One of them quit and the other retired. The one that retired was an MD OB/GYN - no idea on his teaching as he taught reproductive system and we haven't got there yet. The one that quit was a DO EM/FM doc and an absolutely fantastic clinician and teacher. I was really sad to hear of his departure, as anytime I spent with him (he taught clinical skills class) I felt that I learned a bunch in such a short amount of time. The first year clinical skills class is incredibly frustrating so I was really looking forward to learning clinical medicine under him. He left because they changed the format of the clinical skills class to something he wasn't willing to roll with. As I said, super nice guy, but I could tell from talking to him a few times he was very much a "my way or the high way" kind of person.

We did add one cardiology teacher who I'm not at all impressed with. I don't think anyone is. But I think she's new to the academic world and just getting her sea legs.

edit: wanted to add - if there's anything you should be worried about at DCOM it isn't the faculty. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to string together some outstanding professors. Some are average, and some just aren't good, but most range from good to phenomenal. They must hand them big sacks of cash or something. I don't know why any of them would want to live here long term.
 
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Mehd School said:
One of them quit and the other retired. The one that retired was an MD OB/GYN - no idea on his teaching as he taught reproductive system and we haven't got there yet. The one that quit was a DO EM/FM doc and an absolutely fantastic clinician and teacher. I was really sad to hear of his departure, as anytime I spent with him (he taught clinical skills class) I felt that I learned a bunch in such a short amount of time. The first year clinical skills class is incredibly frustrating so I was really looking forward to learning clinical medicine under him. He left because they changed the format of the clinical skills class to something he wasn't willing to roll with. As I said, super nice guy, but I could tell from talking to him a few times he was very much a "my way or the high way" kind of person.

We did add one cardiology teacher who I'm not at all impressed with. I don't think anyone is. But I think she's new to the academic world and just getting her sea legs.

edit: wanted to add - if there's anything you should be worried about at DCOM it isn't the faculty. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to string together some outstanding professors. Some are average, and some just aren't good, but most range from good to phenomenal. They must hand them big sacks of cash or something. I don't know why any of them would want to live here long term.
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what don't you like about the clinical skills class
 
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Oh_Gee said:
what don't you like about the clinical skills class
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It's incredibly unorganized and run by two unorganized professors. They throw a bunch of stuff at you last minute and have unrealistic expectations. I could go on and on about that class. It may be better this year, and I expect it is.
 
Mehd School said:
It's incredibly unorganized and run by two unorganized professors. They throw a bunch of stuff at you last minute and have unrealistic expectations. I could go on and on about that class. It may be better this year, and I expect it is.
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do you think it'll get better next year?
 
Oh_Gee said:
do you think it'll get better next year?
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I do. They tried out a new format with our class, and I think they could tell it didn't go over great. I'm sure it will get better every year, as the school does as a whole. It's the only gripe I had about first year, but with that said I still learned to do a physical exam well. It was just a constant stream of frustration to get there.
 
Mehd School said:
I do. They tried out a new format with our class, and I think they could tell it didn't go over great. I'm sure it will get better every year, as the school does as a whole. It's the only gripe I had about first year, but with that said I still learned to do a physical exam well. It was just a constant stream of frustration to get there.
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dang that was one of the classes i was most looking forward to. they've been around for what, 6 years? you'd think they could get it right in that amount of time, especially if you hire people who've taught it well before. 🙁
i'm deciding between this school and ACOM. my friend at ACOM told me there clinical skills class is pretty good but i think i'd prefer the environment of LMU
 
Oh_Gee said:
dang that was one of the classes i was most looking forward to. they've been around for what, 6 years? you'd think they could get it right in that amount of time, especially if you hire people who've taught it well before. 🙁
i'm deciding between this school and ACOM. my friend at ACOM told me there clinical skills class is pretty good but i think i'd prefer the environment of LMU
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ACOM is one of the schools (along with Campbell, VCOM, and others) that mandates class attendance. LMU does not, and I would strongly recommend LMU for that reason.
 
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