prospects for FMGs in australia

[femizi]

i av already heard so much bout australia and how FMGs stand a better chance of a fulfilling ambition than in the UK,but i want first hand info from an insider or someone who's been there before,before shelling money out for the AMC exams(which i think is pretty costly anyway).how soon after passing the amc can one get a position,and what is the average pay package like?thanks

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[nondentist]

i av already heard so much bout australia and how FMGs stand a better chance of a fulfilling ambition than in the UK,but i want first hand info from an insider or someone who's been there before,before shelling money out for the AMC exams(which i think is pretty costly anyway).how soon after passing the amc can one get a position,and what is the average pay package like?thanks

Until recently, you don’t even need to pass AMC to obtain a resident position in Australia. But since last June passing AMC part 1 ( MCQS) is mandatory. For now, obtaining a position is not too difficult especially if you want to start as senior RMO ( not an accredited training program, but just like an senior internship and then you can find your way to training programs of your choice, though some fields are very competitive).
Pay is much better than US but on par with UK. Interns get around 55k, SRMO around 65k and trainee residents from 72-94k + Overtime and call backs usually make up to 20-30% of your base salary. So it is quiet a good money.

 

[redshifteffect]

Interns make more like 100k for the first year, I can attest to this because I just finished my internship, and calculated my pay for the whole year.

 

[Marsupilami]

Interns make more like 100k for the first year, I can attest to this because I just finished my internship, and calculated my pay for the whole year.

Before or after taxes ? I hear taxes aren't that brutal in Oz...

 

[Purifyer]

pay varies on state. In vic interns make $?50k (+5k superannuation) for a magical 38 hour work week, PGY2 make 55 + 5 superannuation, again for 38 hour week. How much you actually make depends on speciality (and hours) eg. most surgical jobs are ~60 hours a week and you probably make ~$90k + super

vic is the lowest paying state by far

 

[redshifteffect]

Before or after taxes ? I hear taxes aren't that brutal in Oz...

Taxes didn't seem to be bad too me, but this is after taxes. I just summed up my pay stubs (which are all after taxes were deducted), but I had some excellent overtime rotations such as Neurosurgery, and Tasmania is one of the better paying states.

 

[Ezekiel20]

Interns make more like 100k for the first year, I can attest to this because I just finished my internship, and calculated my pay for the whole year.

How the heck did you make 100K as an intern?

Where did you do your internship, and how many hours did you work per week on average?

In NSW, our base salary is 51K before tax.

We get loading for weekends and evenings/night shifts, and the intern's salary taking these into account is said to be 60-65K depending on the individual circumstances..

 

[redshifteffect]

We have a much higher base salary in Tas. I'm coming over to NSW this year, and I was shocked at how low the base salary was, I'll literally be taking a pay cut as a registrar.

I was also lucky in that I had two rotations, Haem/Onc and Neurosurg. where you were strongly encouraged to claim all unrostered overtime, so things like shortened lunches, after hours blood work etc. was all claimed. Plus I pretty much claimed all my unrostered overtime it other rotations as well, and there didn't seem to be any problem with that in the hospital. Perhaps we also have higher overtime rates in Tasmania. We make 2.0x for Saturday shifts, 2.5x for Sunday shifts and 3.0x for public holidays. I did cover people for most public holiday shifts they didn't want.

As for hours it really varied from job to job, but the easiest ones were around 60 hours/week with the more difficult ones (Neurosurg + Haem/Onc) about 70 hours/week. These were the rostered hours (so that included the evenings/weekend shifts). Anything above this amount of time was paid at 2.5x.

I've asked around and the salaries did vary - so people with "easy" rotations like Rehab made less. However my salary is not unique.

The sky's the limit on your income, if you did extra things like Surgical assisting (varies from state to state, but even on an intern license I was allowed to do this job) you can make a lot more.

 

[Ezekiel20]

We have a much higher base salary in Tas. I'm coming over to NSW this year, and I was shocked at how low the base salary was, I'll literally be taking a pay cut as a registrar.

I was also lucky in that I had two rotations, Haem/Onc and Neurosurg. where you were strongly encouraged to claim all unrostered overtime, so things like shortened lunches, after hours blood work etc. was all claimed. Plus I pretty much claimed all my unrostered overtime it other rotations as well, and there didn't seem to be any problem with that in the hospital. Perhaps we also have higher overtime rates in Tasmania. We make 2.0x for Saturday shifts, 2.5x for Sunday shifts and 3.0x for public holidays. I did cover people for most public holiday shifts they didn't want.

As for hours it really varied from job to job, but the easiest ones were around 60 hours/week with the more difficult ones (Neurosurg + Haem/Onc) about 70 hours/week. These were the rostered hours (so that included the evenings/weekend shifts). Anything above this amount of time was paid at 2.5x.

I've asked around and the salaries did vary - so people with "easy" rotations like Rehab made less. However my salary is no where unique.

The sky's the limit on your income, if you did extra things like Surgical assisting (varies from state to state, but even on an intern license I was allowed to do this job) you can make a lot more.

That's unbelievable...

I'm doing gen surg now and rostered from 8am to 4.30pm each day. But my reg wanted to start rounds at 7.30am, which means I arrive at 7am to pre-round. So there's 1 hour of unrostered overtime every day.

Today I finished 1 hour late due to heavy workload, but none of these hours can be claimed as it was made clear to us that interns/residents will not get unrostered overtime paid, except in 'extenuating circumstances' and when accompanied by an explanation and a signature by the supervising consultant.

I spent 3 hours in theatre today and closed up the incisions following lap chole, but there's no special pay rates for assisting. I was just glad I got to suture up the incisions.

 

[Daemos]

It seems Redshifteffect is the man to talk to about finding how to maximize your time there =)

I'm glad at least it seems there isn't a crazy 100hr work week like some interns do in Canada for 40K CAD or ~ 50K AUD...Canada also taxes pretty heavily...So it seems even in NSW interns get paid pretty well from my point of view =)

But you guys have the crazy Luxury car tax...WTF? (I'm a little obsessed with cars...sorry =p)

 

[redshifteffect]

That's unbelievable...

I'm doing gen surg now and rostered from 8am to 4.30pm each day. But my reg wanted to start rounds at 7.30am, which means I arrive at 7am to pre-round. So there's 1 hour of unrostered overtime every day.

Today I finished 1 hour late due to heavy workload, but none of these hours can be claimed as it was made clear to us that interns/residents will not get unrostered overtime paid, except in 'extenuating circumstances' and when accompanied by an explanation and a signature by the supervising consultant.

I spent 3 hours in theatre today and closed up the incisions following lap chole, but there's no special pay rates for assisting. I was just glad I got to suture up the incisions.

Wow that's awful! You really should get paid for all your unrostered overtime, and it's a shame that the hospital is discouraging it.

I know it's hard as an intern to "demand" things but maybe a gentle word as a group of you may change things.

I've noticed that smaller hospitals are very generous with overtime (I mean unrostered overtime) and that's why I suggest going to a small to medium sized one over the larger tertiary hospitals (if pay is your primary concern).

 

[redshifteffect]

Just to clarify,

Surgical assisting is basically where you assist in a surgeon's private theatre operations. Now some states may have restrictions on this as an intern, so you'll have to check with your relevant medical council.

Pay rate of that is 20% of what the surgeon makes (for the procedure), and it looks great on a CV.

As for the car tax, I know it's annoying but the way I look at it, it's still cheaper then in most asian countries

 

[Daemos]

Just to clarify,

Surgical assisting is basically where you assist in a surgeon's private theatre operations. Now some states may have restrictions on this as an intern, so you'll have to check with your relevant medical council.

Pay rate of that is 20% of what the surgeon makes (for the procedure), and it looks great on a CV.

As for the car tax, I know it's annoying but the way I look at it, it's still cheaper then in most asian countries

LOL very true, I heard there is a way around the Luxury car tax, but I haven't been able to confirm it at all. I also see it this way, the personal income tax in Canada is quite high, and I'm sure the amount one would lose in Canadian income taxes over a few years is much worse than a luxury car tax you only pay when you buy a new car =)

How many hours a week did you work on average your self? As I think I'd rather take a paycut than have to work 100 hr/week and do 28 hour shifts.

 

[redshifteffect]

LOL very true, I heard there is a way around the Luxury car tax, but I haven't been able to confirm it at all. I also see it this way, the personal income tax in Canada is quite high, and I'm sure the amount one would lose in Canadian income taxes over a few years is much worse than a luxury car tax you only pay when you buy a new car =)

How many hours a week did you work on average your self? As I think I'd rather take a paycut than have to work 100 hr/week and do 28 hour shifts.

I didn't really average out the weeks, but I know the average wasn't as high as North America, and even in tough rotations there were quiet periods as well. There are no 28 hour shifts, the worst I worked was probably 14 hours.

I don't think there was anyone I met who worked more then 70 hours. Even that was in the Neurosurgery department, and was the registrars. They were paid pretty well for it though.

The one I thought was most tiring though was ED, and it really gives you respect for ED Physicians.

 

[markdc]

I worked an 80 hr week in ICU but then I got 7 days off in a row afterwards. I think the US and Canada are ridiculous with their system of pay for jr staff. People realize how valuable time is now. For many of us it is more valuable than the money earned but at least paying overtime provides for some equity for your work.

 

[Daemos]

I worked an 80 hr week in ICU but then I got 7 days off in a row afterwards. I think the US and Canada are ridiculous with their system of pay for jr staff. People realize how valuable time is now. For many of us it is more valuable than the money earned but at least paying overtime provides for some equity for your work.

Time is valuable, gotta find time to enjoy life =) Although loving your job is important, you gotta find time for family and friends (facebook and other social networking sites don't count! it just makes it easier to keep up with your friends' lives), and the ever so important "me time"

 

[redshifteffect]

Time is valuable, gotta find time to enjoy life =) Although loving your job is important, you gotta find time for family and friends (facebook and other social networking sites don't count! it just makes it easier to keep up with your friends' lives), and the ever so important "me time"

During night shifts and other slow times I just use my virgin mobile unlimited calling plan (Topless plan) in conjunction with the Skype North America plan with Skype2Go to make unlimited calls back home.

Really helps time go by and keep up with family back home when you have nothing else to do.

 

[Daemos]

During night shifts and other slow times I just use my virgin mobile unlimited calling plan (Topless plan) in conjunction with the Skype North America plan with Skype2Go to make unlimited calls back home.

Really helps time go by and keep up with family back home when you have nothing else to do.

with this one post you've made me do lots of googling. Lots of good knowledge gained.

Thanks =)

 

[redshifteffect]

No worries.

PM if you want more info.

 

[Daemos]

^I will eventually, but I haven't even applied yet! waiting for oztrekk.

 

[rox]

I believe the OP was asking specifically about FMG's. So does the info/salaries above apply to oversees-trained doctors as well?

 

[redshifteffect]

I believe the OP was asking specifically about FMG's. So does the info/salaries above apply to oversees-trained doctors as well?

If you're working in Oz it doesn't matter if you are an FMG or IMG or anything else, the pay is the same.