Protesting and Getting Arrested

[deleted480308]

A simple usage fee for using the America brand seems fair. Think of it like a franchise fee. Does that make those evil taxes more palatable?

And every single person has to pay the same fee or we kick you over the border? And there is no welfare....the fee just goes to minimal necessary govt?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

your party

Also, I'm literally registered "No Party"

 

[deleted480308]

Also, I'm literally registered "No Party"

Sorry i meant the group/universal “you”. I should have been more clear, that’s my bad

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And every single person has to pay the same fee or we kick you over the border? And there is no welfare....the fee just goes to minimal necessary govt?

It cracks me up that out of that entire paragraph about how the US is right-leaning you seized on the joke sentence at the end and extrapolated a ridiculous side argument out of it.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I believe every worker is worth only the compensation they agree to in a voluntary agreement with the employer.

If you agree to $10/hr it doesn’t matter if your boss makes $100k or $100billion.....you said you were worth $10/hr

But doesn't that unfairly tip the balance in favor of capital? You don't work...you starve. People don't go work **** jobs voluntarily. They do it so they don't starve. And if they are unlucky enough to not want to starve to death in a **** labor market, they get paid well below what their labor is worth. Their labor is being overtaxed by capital. Marx actually argued this. The idea that profit is by definition the theft of labor. I always find it odd how supporters of pure libertarianism are so offended by the idea of taxes against the holder of capital when labor is intrinsically taxed by capital.

Thankfully in the real world our leaders are way more pragmatic and generally embrace heavily mixed economies that are a delicate balance of taxation and profit making that keeps both the spirit of entrepreneurship alive and the working class not suicidal. Could you imagine a world set up by random internet posters? Yeesh.

 

[deleted480308]

But doesn't that unfairly tip the balance in favor of capital? You don't work...you starve. People don't go work **** jobs voluntarily. They do it so they don't starve. And if they are unlucky enough to not want to starve to death in a **** labor market, they get paid well below what their labor is worth. Their labor is being overtaxed by capital. Marx actually argued this. The idea that profit is by definition the theft of labor. I always find it odd how supporters of pure libertarianism are so offended by the idea of taxes against the holder of capital when labor is intrinsically taxed by capital.

Thankfully in the real world our leaders are way more pragmatic and generally embrace heavily mixed economies that are a delicate balance of taxation and profit making that keeps both the spirit of entrepreneurship alive and the working class not suicidal. Could you imagine a world set up by random internet posters? Yeesh.

Marx was wrong

And politicians aren’t practical about economics, they are practical about promising other people’s money in exchange for votes

 

[owlegrad]

I believe every worker is worth only the compensation they agree to in a voluntary agreement with the employer.

If you agree to $10/hr it doesn’t matter if your boss makes $100k or $100billion.....you said you were worth $10/hr

Isn’t it just as fair to say that whoever owns the capital decides what the labor is worth? It’s not as if the worker has any leverage against the employer. Assuming you don’t want to starve to death you will agree to work for whatever your employer offers. Only collectively do workers have any bargaining power at all and that is a power that only exists when the big bad government protects it, historically speaking. Well I guess armed uprisings such as the French Revolution are another.

 

[deleted480308]

Isn’t it just as fair to say that whoever owns the capital decides what the labor is worth? It’s not as if the worker has any leverage against the employer. Assuming you don’t want to starve to death you will agree to work for whatever your employer offers. Only collectively do workers have any bargaining power at all and that is a power that only exists when the big bad government protects it, historically speaking. Well I guess armed uprisings such as the French Revolution are another.

No. Employers need to pay enough to get the needed skill/labor to show up. Almost no one actually works for minimum wage and if they do they don’t stay there for long.

The cliche that without govt enforcement we would all be working for 2 cents an hour doesn’t hold up. I hired unskilled labor for years, And was unskilled for a while....I have some experience in the end of the economy

 

[OXYFORALL]

I believe every worker is worth only the compensation they agree to in a voluntary agreement with the employer.

If you agree to $10/hr it doesn’t matter if your boss makes $100k or $100billion.....you said you were worth $10/hr

In the real world there is no bargaining with companies like Cvs. They tell you what you are worth to them and if you don't like it-tough ****. I can't think of any rph I know with the freedom to turn down a job because the major chains won't negotiate a salary that represents the amount of work a chain rph does. The only workers with any leverage and a level playing field are in a union and the unions are under fire from all sides.

 

[OXYFORALL]

No. Employers need to pay enough to get the needed skill/labor to show up. Almost no one actually works for minimum wage and if they do they don’t stay there for long.

The cliche that without govt enforcement we would all be working for 2 cents an hour doesn’t hold up. I hired unskilled labor for years, And was unskilled for a while....I have some experience in the end of the economy

Or employers can close stores and consolidate pharmacies. This way they can have 2 rphs in one store fill 3000 rx's a week versus 4 rphs filling the same number in 3 stores. Or they can get h1-b visas and bring in overseas rphs to work in the stores when greedy americans wont.

 

[owlegrad]

No. Employers need to pay enough to get the needed skill/labor to show up. Almost no one actually works for minimum wage and if they do they don’t stay there for long.

The cliche that without govt enforcement we would all be working for 2 cents an hour doesn’t hold up. I hired unskilled labor for years, And was unskilled for a while....I have some experience in the end of the economy

Almost no one makes minimum wage huh? Interesting.

I wonder why we have laws protecting workers at all, given how fairly workers are treated. Seems unnecessary given how workers all agree that their time just happens to be worth whatever the employer is offering.

 

[lord999]

Almost no one makes minimum wage huh? Interesting.

I wonder why we have laws protecting workers at all, given how fairly workers are treated. Seems unnecessary given how workers all agree that their time just happens to be worth whatever the employer is offering.

Because the government is ultimately responsible for the lifetime productivity of its citizenry, not the business. I'll give the example of why the Railroad Commission and the VA exist.

In the railroad industry between the end of the Civil War and the Depression, there's an economic rent where a business overworks their workers between 15 and 35, and then leaves the broken workers for the government to maintain (either through welfare or criminal justice systems). Germany and the US wised up quickly that part of the point of employment is to avoid idle hands, but also, to occupy a citizen's attention for the length of time that they could physically rebel. There were paralyzing railroad strikes contributing to the late 1890 and early 1900 panics which lead to the idea of worker protections, NOT because they protected workers, but it protected civil society for angry, healthy workers that basically thought that rebelling was a better option than being broken by the work at a premature age. The Railroad Commission still pays pensions and annuities, because of the level of the work. The VA does so as well, recognizing that the Bonus Army could have been the end of the government and that those veterans had a genuine issue with discriminatory employment.

As for law enforcement pensions, you have to know the history of Los Angeles and New York to understand how Black Dahlia deals worked prior to the 60s riots. Policemen worked in order to get the one good scam, which a couple of those did blow up in the city's place. The idea behind the early pensions was to avoid such get-rich quick schemes by corrupt police using official authority. Alta California's decision to enact such a structure distinguished it from its Baja counterpart, where, good luck arguing your way out of a false arrest in Tijuana.

It's an economic market, but the government in this case has a compelling interest against business to ensure that people are actually being productive over a lifetime and that they do not misuse their official positions for personal gain. Long-term compensation went a long way to removing that sort of officialdom and the corruption that came with it. The market does work, it's just that the government is another actor in this case.

You want an honest government, you'll pay for it. You don't want an honest government, well, you'll pay for that too, just in a much more arbitrary fashion and not necessarily with your money because why does a government need to choose when they can have both your money and your life?

 

[deleted480308]

In the real world there is no bargaining with companies like Cvs. They tell you what you are worth to them and if you don't like it-tough ****. I can't think of any rph I know with the freedom to turn down a job because the major chains won't negotiate a salary that represents the amount of work a chain rph does. The only workers with any leverage and a level playing field are in a union and the unions are under fire from all sides.

that negotiation happens when a store realizes it takes more losses by not filling vacant spots than it saves with low wages at a certain price point. Supply and demand says if you can be adequately replaced with any of 10workers tommorow at $80k, you aren’t worth $100k

That’s true with the price points of $10 and $8/hr

There is also a price point at which the labor says screw you and tries to open up as a competitor

Or employers can close stores and consolidate pharmacies. This way they can have 2 rphs in one store fill 3000 rx's a week versus 4 rphs filling the same number in 3 stores. Or they can get h1-b visas and bring in overseas rphs to work in the stores when greedy americans wont.

If a company can maintain the same amount of geographical coverage and business volume with less stores and less employees that is a good decision

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Marx was wrong

About some things, yes. But if taxation is theft, then profit is theft. They are basically the same concept. The worker and the taxpayer both have zero real control over how much they have to pay to those in charge and value is being extracted from what they produce by a third party.

And politicians aren’t practical about economics, they are practical about promising other people’s money in exchange for votes

I can see that. I understand why people fear the government. Power tends to corrupt. I just don't understand why a lot of the same people don't seem to fear corporate power with the same fervor. At least you get to vote for the politicians and the politicians in turn have to answer to the voters. The workers don't get to vote for who the district manager is, nor do the owners of capital have to answer to the workers at all.

 

[deleted480308]

About some things, yes. But if taxation is theft, then profit is theft. They are basically the same concept. The worker and the taxpayer both have zero real control over how much they have to pay to those in charge and value is being extracted from what they produce by a third party.
.

Marx was wrong about that too

 

[Seriously Serious]

Arrested is one thing. Being disproportionately charged because the district attorney/legal system is structurally racist is another.

Being darker than a shade of brown increases your odds of such a conviction.

If you don’t think so, time to break out the #whiteprivilege hashtag


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Rap/R&B stations: *listens to songs about gunning down enemies, selling drugs on the street, fxck the police*

Country/alternative stations: *listens to songs about drinking beer, driving trucks, emotional garbage*

Nah, it's definitely not a cultural problem, the government is just racist #whiteprivilege #straightprivilege #pRiViLeGe #dUr

 

[wucool33]

Rap/R&B stations: *listens to songs about gunning down enemies, selling drugs on the street, fxck the police*

Country/alternative stations: *listens to songs about drinking beer, driving trucks, emotional garbage*

Nah, it's definitely not a cultural problem, the government is just racist #whiteprivilege #straightprivilege #pRiViLeGe #dUr

wow

 

[PharmDBro2017]

wow

He's not wrong, ya know.

 

[wucool33]

He's not wrong, ya know.

So we have at least two people here thinking that black culture is all about killing and violence, while white culture is all lovey-dovey?

 

[owlegrad]

So we have at least two people here thinking that black culture is all about killing and violence, while white culture is all lovey-dovey?

I kinda want to ask about the white boys that listen to hip hop. But I am also kinda afraid of the response. :nervous:

 

[radio frequency]

We had a major blow out about this at work. One of the pharmacist accused a technician of having white privilege. The tech was alternating between furiously mad and crying about being persecuted. HR had to get involved.

In case anyone was wondering no this time it wasn’t me reducing a tech to tears!

Crying about being persecuted? Wow. I think I’ve heard this termed “white fragility”. But seeing as it was pharmacist to tech, it’s possibly something HR could get worked up over, I imagine.

 

[CUninja]

I guess I don't understand the utility of calling someone else "privileged" in this instance.

It's not going to change the actual level of privilege someone experiences, but it will more likely lead to animosity, broken friendships, awkward or demeaning interactions at work, etc.

While certainly privilege according to race exists, it also exists in other groups, such as socioeconomic status, disability, etc.
I'm not sure that having a pi**ing contest over who is the most disadvantaged is helpful to anyone, and works to further divide us.
As hard as it seems right now, we are going to have to come together as a nation to empathize with others and look past race, status, ability, etc.

Note that I have not mentioned political leanings. It is possible for liberals and conservatives to respect one another while still maintaining their own beliefs, even if it has only seldomly been seen for a number of years.

In closing, be the change you want to be. Treat others with respect and empathy, especially those who you don't agree with. That is truly the only thing within your control.

 

[confettiflyer]

More like....STFU and talk about the weather. The most controversial topic you should be talking about in the pharmacy is LeBron James going to the Lakers.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Reirrac]

Eh... I'll express my political opinion with my vote. I'd rather not discuss subjective issues people could be very passionate about and react to the extreme. Participating in protests and risking arrest/media exposure sounds like a very bad idea to me.

 

[rxdawg21]

that negotiation happens when a store realizes it takes more losses by not filling vacant spots than it saves with low wages at a certain price point. Supply and demand says if you can be adequately replaced with any of 10workers tommorow at $80k, you aren’t worth $100k

That’s true with the price points of $10 and $8/hr

There is also a price point at which the labor says screw you and tries to open up as a competitor



If a company can maintain the same amount of geographical coverage and business volume with less stores and less employees that is a good decision

While I generally agree with this overall viewpoint, we simply do not have a free market in the sense someone can open up as a competitor easily these days. Too many rules and regulations in almost any business to get started and unless there is a need/abuse by local company it is very difficult to compete with an entrenched company when you are in the hole to start with loans and the time it takes to open due to government red tape. Just look at pharmacy, takes several months to open, a lot of upfront capital, and if you are strictly a regular pharmacy these days your sole reimbursement is insurance contracts you cannot negotiate (hopefully you join a good buyers group). The contract's the big boys get are unavailable for you to even know what they are getting.

Now if you have plenty of money to burn through that is one thing.

 

[deleted480308]

While I generally agree with this overall viewpoint, we simply do not have a free market in the sense someone can open up as a competitor easily these days. Too many rules and regulations in almost any business to get started and unless there is a need/abuse by local company it is very difficult to compete with an entrenched company when you are in the hole to start with loans and the time it takes to open due to government red tape. Just look at pharmacy, takes several months to open, a lot of upfront capital, and if you are strictly a regular pharmacy these days your sole reimbursement is insurance contracts you cannot negotiate (hopefully you join a good buyers group). The contract's the big boys get are unavailable for you to even know what they are getting.

Now if you have plenty of money to burn through that is one thing.

But that flaw is a result of govt interfering with the market, the answer is less interference not more

 

[rxdawg21]

But that flaw is a result of govt interfering with the market, the answer is less interference not more

I don't disagree, but as of this writing that is the system we have. So simply stating the market will respond by you/me opening up our own store is not that feasible as we don't have a true free market, and the likelihood of less regulation is slim to none.

 

[deleted480308]

I don't disagree, but as of this writing that is the system we have. So simply stating the market will respond by you/me opening up our own store is not that feasible as we don't have a true free market, and the likelihood of less regulation is slim to none.

We also don’t have a world with the increased regulations others want......the whole point of discussions like this is “should “

 

[PharmDBro2017]

So we have at least two people here thinking that black culture is all about killing and violence, while white culture is all lovey-dovey?

Man, you read into that completely different than I; talk about jumping to conclusions. Human culture, in general, is morally declining (that's why I agreed with SeriouslySerious), I wasn't singling out any race, so don't be an imbecile and assume things. But in response to your post, white culture is just as disgusting as other cultures.... not sure why you had to single one or the other out though. All cultures have their flaws.

Edit: moved pharmacy school discussion to the other thread to keep this on topic.

 

[wucool33]

Man, you read into that completely different than I; talk about jumping to conclusions. Human culture, in general, is morally declining (that's why I agreed with SeriouslySerious), I wasn't singling out any race, so don't be an imbecile and assume things. But in response to your post, white culture is just as disgusting as other cultures.... not sure why you had to single one or the other out though. All cultures have their flaws.

Edit: moved pharmacy school discussion to the other thread to keep this on topic.

Wtf are you even talking about? Do you even know what you were agreeing with? I’m being a imbecile? That’s rich. At least I’m not illiterate.

Also, why do you think white culture is just as disgusting as other cultures? As a matter of fact, what’s your definition of “culture”?

 

[DruggieDoRight]

Rap/R&B stations: *listens to songs about gunning down enemies, selling drugs on the street, fxck the police*

Country/alternative stations: *listens to songs about drinking beer, driving trucks, emotional garbage*

Nah, it's definitely not a cultural problem, the government is just racist #whiteprivilege #straightprivilege #pRiViLeGe #dUr

The problem with this is that I could absolutely post links that are contrary to this. Hell, Johnny Cash has many songs about stealing and shooting people (He's also arguably one of the best country singers to have ever lived).

Reading a lot of these comments makes me sad. I think much of it really stems from us not having a true community anymore and really talking with each other. We're all Americans right? Can't we all just get along?

I guess I should end on hashtags as well right? #bummedout

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I am so tired of the back and forth between white and black people in America.

It's like being friends with a couple where you love to hang out with them separately, but together, they're always loudly fighting in public and embarrassing the rest of the group of friends.

 

[Seriously Serious]

The problem with this is that I could absolutely post links that are contrary to this. Hell, Johnny Cash has many songs about stealing and shooting people (He's also arguably one of the best country singers to have ever lived).

Reading a lot of these comments makes me sad. I think much of it really stems from us not having a true community anymore and really talking with each other. We're all Americans right? Can't we all just get along?

I guess I should end on hashtags as well right? #bummedout

I bet I can find five links proving my point for every one you find. It's not a matter of putting down any one particular culture, it's a matter of the truth. You are in denial if you think that R&B/rap does not glorify drugs/violence. I am not saying that does not exist in other cultures, it does, but in significantly different quantities. I cannot stand people who victimize themselves or make excuses for their shortcomings. It's pathetic. Yet, here we are in the 21st thriving on it.

 

[VA77]

I live my life with this primary goal because I lived long enough to know that changing companies, racism, religious ideals. We are what we are. I don't make excuses and just focus on what I need to do to be independent.

 

[Unchained]

Oh boy. We got one of those Qanon weirdos on here.

Let's go over how WVU operates in the Trump era.
1.LIberal Progressive Media tries to come up with an end of the world story and link it to Trump. ie. Russians, North Korea, Stormy Daniels,
Supreme Court Justices, Immigration, Trade Tarriffs.
2. WVU wants to differentiate himself from other West Virginians by caring more than them and getting angry and showing how progressive
he is. ie. All of a sudden he cares about the "broken"families which have been separated for the last 20 yrs upon their illegal entry. Even
if I commit a crime I can be expected to be separated from my children.
3. The world does not actually end.
4. WVU is disappointed that the world did not end. He would rather see the world end and blame it on Trump than America to be successful.
5. WVU is confused as to why people keep coming here if its so bad under Trump.
6. WVU eagerly waits for the next "Trump will cause the end of the world story" while Trump nominates a Supreme Court Justice who
restores our rights, wins a trade war with IP stealing China, wins trade war with unfair auto tariff Germany, continues disarmament of
North Korea, convinces OPEC to lower oil prices and continues lowering unemployment. All the while undoing everything Obama did.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Let's go over how WVU operates in the Trump era.
1.LIberal Progressive Media tries to come up with an end of the world story and link it to Trump. ie. Russians, North Korea, Stormy Daniels,
Supreme Court Justices, Immigration, Trade Tarriffs.
2. WVU wants to differentiate himself from other West Virginians by caring more than them and getting angry and showing how progressive
he is. ie. All of a sudden he cares about the "broken"families which have been separated for the last 20 yrs upon their illegal entry. Even
if I commit a crime I can be expected to be separated from my children.
3. The world does not actually end.
4. WVU is disappointed that the world did not end. He would rather see the world end and blame it on Trump than America to be successful.
5. WVU is confused as to why people keep coming here if its so bad under Trump.
6. WVU eagerly waits for the next "Trump will cause the end of the world story" while Trump nominates a Supreme Court Justice who
restores our rights, wins a trade war with IP stealing China, wins trade war with unfair auto tariff Germany, continues disarmament of
North Korea, convinces OPEC to lower oil prices and continues lowering unemployment. All the while undoing everything Obama did.

Yeah, I'm not who you think I am. I'm not a liberal, nor a Democrat, nor an ideologue like you are.

1) I don't listen to "liberal progressive media." I get all of my news from the AP and Reuters. They have a great app that flashes breaking news. I learned about the situation from the AP. I bet you think MSNBC is ridiculous and biased. Guess what? I agree. I have a feeling you don't get your news from unbiased sources, though.
2) These are asylum seekers whose de facto right to habeas corpus has been suspended. This hasn't been done for 20 years, it just started around February. Also, I no longer live in West Virginia. What they are doing is disgusting. Here's a free life tip. Don't tell anyone in real life you think the way you do. The country will normalize again and you will be embarrassed about this once the whole tribalist fog clears.
3) I never claimed the world would end.
4) I'm actually quite happy the world didn't end. I want the US to be successful. I'm not sure what that has to do with any of this.
5) They want to come to the US because it has a reputation of a liberal democracy. (The actual meaning of the world "liberal" not the boogeyman "liberal" that people attach to the word in the US) Also, places like Guatemala and Venezuela are hellholes right now...that's more the reason why they want to escape. Interestingly, border crossings are at an all time low and net immigration from Mexico is actually at a negative rate.
6) If he accomplishes all of this in ways that benefited the United States, I'd be thrilled. I just don't think he has the intellectual capacity to really accomplish any of these and/or I disagree that any of them are really desirable to US interests.

The Supreme Court thing is what it is. Elections have consequences. The Democrats were giant ******* and let the GOP steal a seat on the Court. That's on them. Unless they can outmaneuver the GOP, Trump will name another judge. Oh well. I do think that the trade war thing is just idiotic. Trump is apparently too stupid to understand the concept of trade-mediated economic synergy. The world has been set up since WWII to benefit the United States economically. And this ***** wants to completely end it, create a power vacuum, and let China lead the world into the mid-21st Century. I am concerned about how they let ZTE continue along in the US market. The US intelligence community is very concerned about this. I just don't see the point of it. Just about all realistic potential outcomes will be a net-negative for the US economy. I hope the Kim Dynasty stops nuclear proliferation. Recent leaked US intelligence reports claim that they are continuing their proliferative activity. Trump isn't exactly a feared negotiator. My fear is that Kim just showed him a good time, complimented him, told him what he wanted to hear, and convinced Trump to end the South Korean-American military exercises.
-----

What's really concerning is that people like you think that very legitimate criticisms of the Trump Administration automatically makes someone a Birkenstock wearing hippy liberal. That's not me. If you go back to when Obama was in charge, I was criticized on here as being a conservative because I thought the Affordable Care Act was a giant piece of **** gift to Big Pharma and insurance companies. Which it was.

All I want is a rational, evidence-based representative republic. And when I don't get that, I will complain.

Trump is in charge now. Obama isn't here anymore to do stupid things. Trump's idiotic moves will now get the criticism of people with the capacity for rational thought. Get used to it, buckaroo.

 

[Apotheker2015]

So, going to be protesting on Saturday. Will be doing it peacefully, but was watching the protests in DC today and was wondering if anyone knows how being arrested for civil disobedience is viewed by BOPies or for that matter any licensing body like for Physicians, Dentists, etc. Can one lose ones license for exercising their constitutionally protected right to protest?

Stay out of it. Naturalized citizen here. Write to your Senator and congresspersons. That's more effective. Write to the First Lady. Believe it or not. She reads her mail, and responds.

 

[Seriously Serious]

Let's go over how WVU operates in the Trump era.
1.LIberal Progressive Media tries to come up with an end of the world story and link it to Trump. ie. Russians, North Korea, Stormy Daniels,
Supreme Court Justices, Immigration, Trade Tarriffs.
2. WVU wants to differentiate himself from other West Virginians by caring more than them and getting angry and showing how progressive
he is. ie. All of a sudden he cares about the "broken"families which have been separated for the last 20 yrs upon their illegal entry. Even
if I commit a crime I can be expected to be separated from my children.
3. The world does not actually end.
4. WVU is disappointed that the world did not end. He would rather see the world end and blame it on Trump than America to be successful.
5. WVU is confused as to why people keep coming here if its so bad under Trump.
6. WVU eagerly waits for the next "Trump will cause the end of the world story" while Trump nominates a Supreme Court Justice who
restores our rights, wins a trade war with IP stealing China, wins trade war with unfair auto tariff Germany, continues disarmament of
North Korea, convinces OPEC to lower oil prices and continues lowering unemployment. All the while undoing everything Obama did.

NUHHH UHH!!! ACCORDING TO CNN.....