psychiatry residency programs

[siciatrico1]

I'm a UCSF med student interested in psychiatry, and will be applying to programs next year. Most of my mentors can only tell me about UCSF's program. Can anyone suggest programs with good training in psychotherapy and with a bent towards outpatient work? Thanks!!

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[Doc Samson]

I'm a UCSF med student interested in psychiatry, and will be applying to programs next year. Most of my mentors can only tell me about UCSF's program. Can anyone suggest programs with intense training in psychotherapy and with a strong bent towards outpatient work? Thanks!!

In the northeast, I would say that Cambridge sounds the closest to what you're looking for.

 

[siciatrico1]

Thanks Doc Samson! Any other recommendations out there? The advice is much appreciated.

 

[strangeglove]

Thanks Doc Samson! Any other recommendations out there? The advice is much appreciated.

Consider some of the New York programs, such as Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU. They all provide pretty intense psychotherapy training. Their inpatient training is also very strong. I'm not sure you'd want to go somewhere that would de-emphasize inpatient psychiatry too much.

 

[Doc Samson]

Consider some of the New York programs, such as Cornell, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, NYU. They all provide pretty intense psychotherapy training. Their inpatient training is also very strong. I'm not sure you'd want to go somewhere that would de-emphasize inpatient psychiatry too much.

Absolutely. MGH/McLean and Longwood in Boston would also provide excellent psychotherapy training, but the emphasis at Cambridge is much more on the outpatient side of practice. I agree with Strangeglove that you should look for a residency with strong generalist training - you can always specialize in your 4th year or with fellowship.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I'm a UCSF med student interested in psychiatry, and will be applying to programs next year. Most of my mentors can only tell me about UCSF's program.

I wasn't aware that a UCSF medical student EVER left San Francisco willingly...

 

[cleareyedguy]

In NYC, Cornell, Columbia, and NYU have the strongest supervision in outpatient psychotherapy. Unlike UCSF, where no one on the full-time faculty is a psychoanalyst (I think the recently-retired PD was the last one), all of the NYC places have analysts on ft faculty, and NYC is crawling with psychiatrist supervisors who practice psychodynamic psychotherapy. Among those, I think they'd agree that Cornell's senior leadership is most friendly towards analysis and therapy (though the chair is a neurobiologist), at least judging by the fact that there are at least 15 psychoanalysts on Cornell's ft faculty (including the PD) and the presence of such people as Otto Kernberg and Bob Michels still teaching weekly classes to pgy 2's and 3's for much of the year. Columbia is between PD's at the moment, and the chair is not especially friendly towards analysis, but its analytic institute is right there and very strong.

One could make a case that no one should ever leave San Francisco, but, if you want to practice outpatient psychotherapy, New York has 10 times as many people and has far less managed care penetration (i.e., people here actually can have completely full practices composed of twice a week psychotherapy patients).

If you are interested in considering psychoanalysis, then you might want to know how the schools are aligned:

NYU residency grads tend to get trained at NYU Psychoanalytic
Mt. Sinai residency grads tend to go to New York Psychoanalytic Institute (they now have a formal connection).
Cornell and Columbia residency grads tend to go to Columbia Psychoanalytic, with some going to New York.

I write the above, because, unlike in most other areas of the country, the 3 top MD-oriented analytic schools still recruit mostly MD's.

 

[siciatrico1]

thanks for the excellent and helpful information!

 

[MBK2003]

Columbia is between PD's at the moment, and the chair is not especially friendly towards analysis

So true, so true

 

[strangeglove]

Columbia is between PD's at the moment, and the chair is not especially friendly towards analysis, but its analytic institute is right there and very strong.

Also, I've heard that Columbia appointed a new "Director of Psychodynamic Training," or something like that, specifically for the residents. So, it seems there is an effort to preserve the dynamic perspective in its training despite the departure of the PD.

 

[MBK2003]

Also, I've heard that Columbia appointed a new "Director of Psychodynamic Training," or something like that, specifically for the residents. So, it seems there is an effort to preserve the dynamic perspective in its training despite the departure of the PD.

Fortunately Columbia has a rich psychodynamic faculty load and the current crop of trainees are committed to learning psychodynamic psychiatry and treasure their psychotherapy training (as previous classes of residents would also confirm was a big reason for training at Columbia). I think that the training at Columbia will remain top notch, despite the loss of the program director and the new direction that the chair would like to go. I would recommend that interviewees ask lots of questions and confirm for themselves that the program is a good "fit" for them. Frankly when you are comparing the top training programs, it's more about fit than quality of the training (because they are so similarly strong).

 

[cleareyedguy]

Agree with MBK.

For what it's worth, Deborah Cabaniss is the new director of psychodynamic education; she is great. Maria Oquendo is director of education, which will involve med students, residents, and fellows--she's a top-notch researcher who will maintain her grants, etc. Eric Marcus was long-time head of med student education (you may have read his co-edited text) and is now director of the analytic institute. They are starting a search for a PD; the acting PD was the former assistant PD, and they have someone backing her up.

The chair may be more interested in bulking up Columbia's already terrific research programs than in bulking up psychoanalysis or mainstream clinical education, but it's not like they don't have dozens and dozens of really smart, committed faculty members who will focus on those things regardless of finances or institutional support (most clinical teaching is voluntary, anyway).

All of that is written to say that it's not like the shelves are bare at Columbia; they'll still get great trainees; as said above, the top programs have more resources than any one resident can possibly take advantage of, so it's about personal, geographic, and intellectual fit, IMHO.

 

[cactuscactuswoo]

Greetings! I'm just a wee little medical student about to start interviewing myself, but I've researched a lot of programs and spoken to a few residents and PDs places and here's my two cents:

a. I don't know if there's such a thing as a program that "emphasizes" outpt. care - most do the standard ~1yr of inpt, 1 yr of outpt, 1 yr of electives thing, even if they disguise it a little bit. So I would look for a place that has a lot of electives geared towards psychotherapy and outpt. care.

b. What kind of psychotherapy are you interested in? Basically, do you want to become an analyst, or do you want to learn brief therapies, or do you want to have options in all areas?

c. I was looking for programs with "real" psychotherapy training, but I'm really poor and can't afford Boston, NY, or California (maybe not a problem for you since you live in SF, or maybe a BIG problem for you if you lived there on loans for 4 years...). Here's what I came up with:

Pittsburgh - the reputation here is research and largely biological therapy. But it's so enormous and there are so many electives available that you could easily spend your entire third and fourth years doing nothing but outpt., with emphasis on pretty much any type of psychotherapy you want, or with emphasis on integrated approaches. There's also an Analytic Institute (that welcomes residents) in town, but I know nothing about its strength or reputation. Also probably one of the few places outside CA and the megalopolis where you could do research on, say, functional brain imaging and psychotherapy, if that's your thing.

Medical College of Wisconsin - I haven't actually been here yet, but everyone involved with the program seems really excited about psychotherapy training. They have a freestanding resident therapy clinic of which they are very proud. My impression is that you would get more of a broad overview of therapies here, not necessarily something with a strong bent in one direction or the other.

Institute of Living - This is in Hartford, CT. It's really old and they like to play up the historical perspective, which I like. Kind of like Pittsburgh in that they have a wide variety of electives. Everything's on one great big campus, too, with lots of old trees and neat old buildings.

Baylor - Baylor ate Menninger, so there are apparently a lot of analysts milling about there now looking for things to do. Also Glen Gabbard's there, and is a big part of the formal therapy didactics, so that can only be good. Haven't been there yet, though.

That's just a few places. I have thirteen interviews lined up and quality (not necessarily prominence, just quality) of psychotherapy training is one of the first things I'm looking for - I'd be happy to give you updates later in the year if you want. Unless of course you're NY or Boston-bound, in which case consider yourself lucky!

 

[utkelly13]

I've heard (and seen) that UNC and Arkansas actually have pretty good psychotherapy training, if you aren't particular about where you're moving.

Also, remember that most large/well known programs have "extra" psychotherapy training for those who want it. I firmly believe in getting a well balanced training in both pharm and psychotherapy, with focus on therapy 3/4th year. I'm a UCLA intern, and know that we have 3 large psychoanalytic centers in Los Angeles that offer amazing training opportunities to residents who are interested.

good luck!