Psychology vs. Human Development

[Marissa4usa]

Hi guys,
I was wondering what you think about a degree (PhD) in Human Development (and Family Studies) vs. a degree in Psychology. The topics that I am interested seem to be overlapping extremely and I'm starting to wonder whether I should look more seriously into these programs, also because admission seems to be a little easier.
To make it a little easier I have come up with a list of pros and cons:
Pros:
-more faculty seems to have the same research interest (family relations), therefore easier to find a match
-easier to get accepted in general
-a lot of professors have a psychology background

Cons:

-less scientific/ less depth than psychology(I'm not sure but the undergrad classes I have taken in my HDFS department left me with mixed feelings as some of the stuff they teach seems to be "common sense")
-I would like to see how mental disorders affect family relationships (hence I'm interested in the clinical aspects of this) and I'm not sure whether studying this in a Human Development enviroment would satisfy me

I was also wondering if it advisable to get a M.A. in Human Development and then go for a PhD in Psychology. I can almost imagine what the answer is but I would still be interested to hear what you have to say.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

You need to ask yourself what you want to do for a career, and then work backwards. So as much as fit is important, if you can't do what you want once you get out, it nullifies the usefulness of your degree.

-t

 

[deleted176373]

Hi guys,
I was wondering what you think about a degree (PhD) in Human Development (and Family Studies) vs. a degree in Psychology. The topics that I am interested seem to be overlapping extremely and I'm starting to wonder whether I should look more seriously into these programs, also because admission seems to be a little easier.
To make it a little easier I have come up with a list of pros and cons:
Pros:
-more faculty seems to have the same research interest (family relations), therefore easier to find a match
-easier to get accepted in general
-a lot of professors have a psychology background

Cons:

-less scientific/ less depth than psychology(I'm not sure but the undergrad classes I have taken in my HDFS department left me with mixed feelings as some of the stuff they teach seems to be "common sense")
-I would like to see how mental disorders affect family relationships (hence I'm interested in the clinical aspects of this) and I'm not sure whether studying this in a Human Development enviroment would satisfy me

I was also wondering if it advisable to get a M.A. in Human Development and then go for a PhD in Psychology. I can almost imagine what the answer is but I would still be interested to hear what you have to say.

The big downside I see is if you want to work as a practitioner. As a Ph.D /Psy.D. clinical/counseling psychologist you can (because you are licensed and therefore can bill insurance etc)... otherwise you have to look to other income streams. If you plan to stay in academia, that might be fine, if however you want to work in the "world" you have to examine how you fit in. (I honestly don't know, but it's a question I would be asking.)

Mark

 

[Marissa4usa]

Well, that's the thing.
You can be a counselor with a PhD in Human Development. Here's a link from one University.
http://familystudies.uconn.edu/centers/humphrey/index.html
This degree focuses primarily on "counseling" vs. "Hardcoretherapy" where you possibly deal with people who suffer from schizphrenia, etc. I, however, know students in this program and while the goal of this program is not to train students to work with severely mentally ill people they seem to do the same as any other psychotherapist (i, however, have to admit that since I'm an undergrad, I'm not 100% familiar what PsyD's and PhD's in Clinical Psych are able to do vs. PhD's in Human Development.

Edit: According to the Website of UConn, they offer

Nationally accredited clinical training is offered in marriage and family therapy at both the Master's and Doctoral levels

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I've written a bit in the past about the difference between Counseling, Clinical, Marriage & Family, etc....but I can't recall where I posted it.....so I'll just do a quick review:

Counseling seems to focus more on relational, environmental, cultural etc factors, while clinical tends to look at more pathological factors. I believe they get to the same end, but they go about it a bit differently. I think in general clinical psych deals with more deep pathology (schizophrenia, bipolar, etc). I'd welcome any input from counseling people, as my background is clinical.

Marriage & Family is probably more of an off-shoot of counseling theory than clinical theory as it looks more at the relationships between each member of the family and group dynamics.

As for Ph.D & PsyD questions, there is a stickie at the top of the forum that discusses the differences.

-t

 

[JockNerd]

On this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=451948 about halfway down, a handsome and intelligent forum member posted a bit on Clinical v. Counseling psych.

As for human development, I'd consider it during applications if it really appeals to you and can get you where you want to be. I wouldn't limit my applications to only those programs, however.

I looked at a few of the human development programs when I was applying to grad school, because there were one or two that did research in my area. I didn't end up applying to any of them, though.

 

[deleted176373]

Well, that's the thing.
You can be a counselor with a PhD in Human Development. Here's a link from one University.
http://familystudies.uconn.edu/centers/humphrey/index.html
This degree focuses primarily on "counseling" vs. "Hardcoretherapy" where you possibly deal with people who suffer from schizphrenia, etc. I, however, know students in this program and while the goal of this program is not to train students to work with severely mentally ill people they seem to do the same as any other psychotherapist (i, however, have to admit that since I'm an undergrad, I'm not 100% familiar what PsyD's and PhD's in Clinical Psych are able to do vs. PhD's in Human Development.

Edit: According to the Website of UConn, they offer

That was interesting, and looking at the AAMFT website shows that you can get licensure in 47 or 48 states. So that bodes well, although your practice is "limited" to marriage and family therapy, anyone would expect that you would see a wide range of people for a wide range of problems.

If the field offers what you want and you don't feel the need to work in a wider range of settings (i.e. Marriage and Family therapy is what you are about anyway.) Then this seems to be a good fit, while it may offer slightly lower pay, it may not. Alot depends on you but here is info from AAMFT's web site.

                   [FONT=Arial]Private Practice Income    Total Professional Income.
[FONT=Arial]MFTs                                            $55,561                     $59,405.
[FONT=Arial]Professional Counselors                 $42,158                     $47,350.
P[FONT=Arial]sychologists                                $71,856                     $80,000.
[FONT=Arial]Social Workers                              $55,512                     $61,164.

Makes sense to have the whole picture going in. This was 2002 Data, Ph.D. level MFT's did markedly better by about 10k on average putting them right between psychologists and MA MFTs and LCSW's.


Mark

 

[amy203]

I applied to a combination of clinical psych and human development programs and am currently enrolled in a joint program. Human development programs are really amazing in terms of interdisciplinary training; in many ways, I think they represent the future of the field. They are especially good if you are interested in applied research and public policy. I don't see any reason why the programs would be "less scientific," but try reading some of the faculties' research is you want to be sure.

I was somewhat concerned with whether I would receive enough in-depth training in psychopathology in these programs, which is why I chose a joint clinical/developmental program. This could have been specific to programs I applied to though.

Mark's point about "fitting in" in academia is also a good one. Student's from the programs I applied to were largely very successful at securing faculty positions, but admitted that they had to do some extra work "selling themselves." It sounds like you come out with a unique degree that a lot of people appreciate, but some don't understand.

Human Development programs are all different, so it's difficult to make a lot of generalizations about them. If you really like a faculty member's research, I would go ahead and apply. T4C's advice about "working backwards" is excellent and definitely something you'll want to keep in mind throughout the application process.

 

[Marissa4usa]

@Amy: Would you mind telling me what program you are in or what schools offer a combination of clinical psych and human development? PM would be fine, too.

I guess, I didn't express myself right when I said less scientific. I meant less focus on pathological (which I associate with being " scientific")aspects.
I do not want to insult anyone who is in a human development program but the classes (and those only were undergrad couses) that I took kind of gave me the impression that everything is very superficial, more "common sense", if you know what I mean.
Even though I am only a junior I have doing a lot research regarding potential matches and it seems that very few profs in psychology departments focus on what I'm interested in(or they are not interested in the same age group) whereas it's easier to find profs with same research interests in HDFS department (those, however, do not look at the pathological aspects) so i feel I am kind of stuck. I would prefer a degree in psychology rather than HDFS simply because I don't want to have to take the risk of "prooving" myself.

 

[socialcog]

That was interesting, and looking at the AAMFT website shows that you can get licensure in 47 or 48 states. So that bodes well, although your practice is "limited" to marriage and family therapy, anyone would expect that you would see a wide range of people for a wide range of problems.

If the field offers what you want and you don't feel the need to work in a wider range of settings (i.e. Marriage and Family therapy is what you are about anyway.) Then this seems to be a good fit, while it may offer slightly lower pay, it may not. Alot depends on you but here is info from AAMFT's web site.

                   [FONT=Arial]Private Practice Income    Total Professional Income.
[FONT=Arial]MFTs                                            $55,561                     $59,405.
[FONT=Arial]Professional Counselors                 $42,158                     $47,350.
P[FONT=Arial]sychologists                                $71,856                     $80,000.
[FONT=Arial]Social Workers                              $55,512                     $61,164.

Makes sense to have the whole picture going in. This was 2002 Data, Ph.D. level MFT's did markedly better by about 10k on average putting them right between psychologists and MA MFTs and LCSW's.


Mark

As an MFT, my private practice income has been 2x the average listed above NOT working fulltime. I rarely see families for purely family therapy...most in conjuction with what I am doing individually. The focus in my practice is the treatment of anxiety from a CBT framework, primarily adolescents. It's funny...I almost never see couples. Seriously, never.

My point, I have found it to be quite easy to have a successful private practice. I do not completely understand how the $55k has become the average. It's baffling, personally.

 

[psychanon]

I've written a bit in the past about the difference between Counseling, Clinical, Marriage & Family, etc....but I can't recall where I posted it.....so I'll just do a quick review:

Counseling seems to focus more on relational, environmental, cultural etc factors, while clinical tends to look at more pathological factors. I believe they get to the same end, but they go about it a bit differently. I think in general clinical psych deals with more deep pathology (schizophrenia, bipolar, etc). I'd welcome any input from counseling people, as my background is clinical.
-t

I'm clinical also, but I have always wondered if the "severe mental illness" thing is the best way to distinguish clinical from counseling. The fact is that the majority of clinical psychologists do not primarily research or do clinical work with people with severe mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar d/o, etc.). This is reflected in (or perhaps caused by) the fact that there are few existing efficacious treatments for these disorders. Training in clinical Ph.D. programs primarily (and I don't mean solely) focuses on outpatient type problems-- depression, anxiety, disruptive disorders, autism, and so on. So I think that the distinction more lies in the orientation-- clinical psychologists look more at categorically defined psychopathology (as opposed to general distress), and counselors look more at sociocultural factors, and more at life transition stressors rather than psychopathology per se. Then again, I don't know much about counseling, so I don't want to make strong statements about what they do or do not do-- I only want to clarify what clinical folks do, for those who may be confused.

 

[deleted176373]

As an MFT, my private practice income has been 2x the average listed above NOT working fulltime. I rarely see families for purely family therapy...most in conjuction with what I am doing individually. The focus in my practice is the treatment of anxiety from a CBT framework, primarily adolescents. It's funny...I almost never see couples. Seriously, never.

My point, I have found it to be quite easy to have a successful private practice. I do not completely understand how the $55k has become the average. It's baffling, personally.

I have to agree. I think that $$$ earned are to individually variable sometimes to be meaningful, especially for private practice or individuals who are really exceptional in their fields.

Mark