PsyD Advice?

[Epak333]

Hi everyone!

I’m posting because I am currently a senior psych major hoping to take a gap year and apply to clinical psych PsyD programs for Fall 2024 (specifically for forensic psychology). Here’s a brief description of what I have on my CV:

4.0 GPA

1.5 years as a research assistant in a psychology research lab

1 year working as an assisted animal therapy specialist with individuals who have intellectual or physical disabilities, genetic disorders, TBIs, behavioral and emotional issues, etc

1 year volunteering as a crisis counselor for the Crisis Text Line

6 months tutoring inmates for their GED in a federal prison

Would all of this be sufficient to be accepted? Do I need presentations, conferences, or publications?

Also, here are the PsyD programs I’m looking into: Florida Tech, Nova Southeastern, U of Denver, Baylor, Rutgers, Widener, Marshall University, Midwestern University (AZ), and Georgia Southern. All have pretty good APA internship match rates and licensure rates (I think - what is considered a good rate?). Any advice would be helpful, thanks!

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[Sanman]

Why a PsyD and not a PhD? Why did you choose that list of programs?

 

[WisNeuro]

Any reasons you are not also considering balanced and clinically focused PhDs to increase chances at fully funded programs?

Nova's reputation has dived in recent years, Midwestern never had a good rep.

 

[Epak333]

Why a PsyD and not a PhD? Why did you choose that list of programs?

After being in a research lab, I realize that I absolutely dislike research. I don't think I would enjoy being in a PhD program given how rigorous the research is. The list was mostly chosen on the schools I found to have partial funding, ideal location, or just seemed like better PsyD programs.

 

[Epak333]

Any reasons you are not also considering balanced and clinically focused PhDs to increase chances at fully funded programs?

Nova's reputation has dived in recent years, Midwestern never had a good rep.

I am not a fan of research at all, after talking to the PhD students in my lab, they said I would probably be unhappy doing a PhD as they are heavily research focused. I also know that both Baylor and Rutgers are funded, Georgia Southern might be as well? Plus with what I want to do career wise, I know the Bureau of Prisons has loan forgiveness if you work for them for a certain number of years. Also, yes I have heard Nova is iffy given they worked with the Amen clinics. I know that's more for neuro though, so I wasn't sure if for forensic psych it would still be a decent choice.

 

[WisNeuro]

After being in a research lab, I realize that I absolutely dislike research. I don't think I would enjoy being in a PhD program given how rigorous the research is. The list was mostly chosen on the schools I found to have partial funding, ideal location, or just seemed like better PsyD programs.

The research requirements for legitimate PsyDs and clinically focused PhDs are pretty similar.

 

[Epak333]

The research requirements for legitimate PsyDs and clinically focused PhDs are pretty similar.

Oh I've heard the opposite. I know PsyD's still require research and a dissertation but I've heard research is much more for PhDs. Also PhDs are much harder to get into. Would you be able to speak to the other programs? Or anything on my CV?

 

[PsyNeuro37]

Research is going to be a core component of any reputable PsyD program. You will have to complete a dissertation at almost all of the programs you listed. Avoiding doing research until you get to the dissertation phase is going to make completing it very challenging and probably lead to a subpar product.

In a balanced PhD and a good university-based PsyD your research involvement will look similar. Part of that is because you need to learn how to be a producer and consumer of research to inform clinical practice. You want to do forensic psychology you said? Learning how to apply research is important for understanding the psychometrics of your assessment tools across different populations for example.

There are going to be things you don’t like during your graduate training, but will have to do to be a good psychologist. Research could be one of those for you, but I would encourage you to not limit your degree options because of trying to avoid research. It’s an important and necessary part of any doctoral degree.

For context, i have a PsyD and was pretty involved in research during grad school. My research involvement on fellowship is less than it was in grad school, but I still use those research skills every day in my clinical work. It also made me a much more competitive applicant for neuropsych internship and postdoc. Same will be true for forensic psych.

 

[summerbabe]

After being in a research lab, I realize that I absolutely dislike research. I don't think I would enjoy being in a PhD program given how rigorous the research is. The list was mostly chosen on the schools I found to have partial funding, ideal location, or just seemed like better PsyD programs.

The average student graduating from Baylor will spend a lot of time on research (the program has multiple active and productive labs) and will likely have at least one peer reviewed pub and a handful of poster presentations so that program is actually more research heavy than the average PhD so if you're looking to minimize research, you should cross Baylor off your list, even though it's technically a PsyD.

I don't have any first hand exposure to Rutgers but I imagine research is a heavy component of the program (hence funding it's students).

This is oversimplified but if there is funding, expect to be heavily involved in research. But if you're footing the entire bill, you'll gain the freedom to pick/choose how involved or uninvolved you want to be (bare minimum = not even join a lab and do a 'dissertation' using an already captured dataset).

 

[WisNeuro]

Oh I've heard the opposite. I know PsyD's still require research and a dissertation but I've heard research is much more for PhDs. Also PhDs are much harder to get into. Would you be able to speak to the other programs? Or anything on my CV?

This is simply not true in many cases, there are many balanced and clinically focused PhDs. There are always research heavy powerhouses, who mostly churn out researchers/faculty, but these are the exception, not the rule. Phds are harder to get into, generally speaking, but legitimate PsyDs will also have fairly low acceptance rates. Diploma mills will accept pretty much anyone who can secure a loan, but then you have to live with those very expensive consequences. CV generally looks good, it'd be competitive for some PhDs, a little more research and you'd be competitive more broadly and for fully funded PhD/PsyDs.

 

[Epak333]

Research is going to be a core component of any reputable PsyD program. You will have to complete a dissertation at almost all of the programs you listed. Avoiding doing research until you get to the dissertation phase is going to make completing it very challenging and probably lead to a subpar product.

In a balanced PhD and a good university-based PsyD your research involvement will look similar. Part of that is because you need to learn how to be a producer and consumer of research to inform clinical practice. You want to do forensic psychology you said? Learning how to apply research is important for understanding the psychometrics of your assessment tools across different populations for example.

There are going to be things you don’t like during your graduate training, but will have to do to be a good psychologist. Research could be one of those for you, but I would encourage you to not limit your degree options because of trying to avoid research. It’s an important and necessary part of any doctoral degree.

For context, i have a PsyD and was pretty involved in research during grad school. My research involvement on fellowship is less than it was in grad school, but I still use those research skills every day in my clinical work. It also made me a much more competitive applicant for neuropsych internship and postdoc. Same will be true for forensic psych.

Okay for some clarification, I know that PsyD's still involve research! And I don't hate research, it's just not my favorite lol. I've just heard from fellow clin psych PhD students that PhDs have more intense research that encompasses a lot of their time in the program. I just feel that as someone who does not particularly enjoy research as much as others and also not having too much research experience/lack of publications/presentations would not make me a strong enough candidate for PhDs, given their acceptance rates are much lower. I am pretty much dead set on PsyD programs, so I am more-so asking if my experiences are enough to get accepted into a PsyD program and if the programs I mentioned are reputable.

 

[Epak333]

This is simply not true in many cases, there are many balanced and clinically focused PhDs. There are always research heavy powerhouses, who mostly churn out researchers/faculty, but these are the exception, not the rule. Phds are harder to get into, generally speaking, but legitimate PsyDs will also have fairly low acceptance rates. Diploma mills will accept pretty much anyone who can secure a loan, but then you have to live with those very expensive consequences. CV generally looks good, it'd be competitive for some PhDs, a little more research and you'd be competitive more broadly and for fully funded PhD/PsyDs.

Gotcha, I was pretty much dead set on Psyd programs but now I feel conflicted. I just feel that I am not a strong enough candidate for a PhD program and after being in a research lab with PhD students, it does not seem like something I could do for 4 years. Hence why I was looking more into PsyD programs

 

[Epak333]

The average student graduating from Baylor will spend a lot of time on research (the program has multiple active and productive labs) and will likely have at least one peer reviewed pub and a handful of poster presentations so that program is actually more research heavy than the average PhD so if you're looking to minimize research, you should cross Baylor off your list, even though it's technically a PsyD.

I don't have any first hand exposure to Rutgers but I imagine research is a heavy component of the program (hence funding it's students).

This is oversimplified but if there is funding, expect to be heavily involved in research. But if you're footing the entire bill, you'll gain the freedom to pick/choose how involved or uninvolved you want to be (bare minimum = not even join a lab and do a 'dissertation' using an already captured dataset).

That makes sense. I don't necessarily hate research, I just can't see myself doing it to the degree of a PhD program. Rutgers was mostly on my list because I live in NJ, so that would be my comfort school if I got in lol. I'm also not too worried about loans for a number of reasons, but I am also looking at careers with the Bureau of Prisons, which I know they offer loan forgiveness if you work for them for a certain number of years.

 

[Epak333]

The fact that all of your responses jumped straight into the PhD vs. PsyD discussion is making me feel pressured to stop considering PsyD programs!!!

 

[R. Matey]

Gotcha, I was pretty much dead set on Psyd programs but now I feel conflicted. I just feel that I am not a strong enough candidate for a PhD program and after being in a research lab with PhD students, it does not seem like something I could do for 4 years. Hence why I was looking more into PsyD programs

I'll add my voice, I'd strongly encourage you to try for a funded Ph.D. program even if you don't like research. Many people in clinically balanced emphasize their practica experiences with more minimal research responsibilities than you might think. Don't let the experience of a few people dictate a major financial decision. There's a difference between competence and emphasis and many of the clinically balanced programs are shooting for competence.

Also, it's largely a myth that Ph.D. programs don't emphasize clinical practice. Many Ph.D. programs have just as many clinical hours as Psy.D. programs and the modal outcome for many Ph.D. programs is clinical practice.

 

[PsyNeuro37]

The fact that all of your responses jumped straight into the PhD vs. PsyD discussion is making me feel pressured to stop considering PsyD programs!!!

I wouldn’t say don’t consider PsyDs, there are good ones. Like I said above, I came from one and was very happy with it. Everyone here is saying not to exclude PhDs because it can get you to the same goal but with less debt a lot of the time. What your day-to-day research involvement looks like at any PhD/PsyD is program going to have a ton of variability (and also depend on where your funding is coming from). I imagine the research involvement by grad students at your current school will look a lot different than research involvement at other programs, or even other labs within your same school.

 

[Epak333]

I'll add my voice, I'd strongly encourage you to try for a funded Ph.D. program even if you don't like research. Many people in clinically balanced emphasize their practica experiences with more minimal research responsibilities than you might think. Don't let the experience of a few people dictate a major financial decision. There's a difference between competence and emphasis and many of the clinically balanced programs are shooting for competence.

Also, it's largely a myth that Ph.D. programs don't emphasize clinical practice. Many Ph.D. programs have just as many clinical hours as Psy.D. programs and the modal outcome for many Ph.D. programs is clinical practice.

Yes you're probably right, and I know PhD programs still have clinical practice. I guess I'm just worried that A. I won't get into a PhD program the 1st time around or B. It'll feel like way too much research, but I guess each program is different. As for funded PhD programs, what constitutes you receiving funding? Are you required to teach?

 

[Epak333]

I wouldn’t say don’t consider PsyDs, there are good ones. Like I said above, I came from one and was very happy with it. Everyone here is saying not to exclude PhDs because it can get you to the same goal but with less debt a lot of the time. What your day-to-day research involvement looks like at any PhD/PsyD is program going to have a ton of variability (and also depend on where your funding is coming from). I imagine the research involvement by grad students at your current school will look a lot different than research involvement at other programs, or even other labs within your same school.

You're right, each school is different. And it definitely would be nice to not be in debt! May I ask what PsyD program you went to/what programs you looked at? Also, I'm a little lost about what to do for my gap year. If I'm planning on applying to PhD programs now, I would assume I should continue being a research assistant. It's super hard to get anything clinically related, especially in forensic psych, while in undergrad.

 

[WisNeuro]

Gotcha, I was pretty much dead set on Psyd programs but now I feel conflicted. I just feel that I am not a strong enough candidate for a PhD program and after being in a research lab with PhD students, it does not seem like something I could do for 4 years. Hence why I was looking more into PsyD programs

If you are a strong enough candidate for legitimate PsyDs, you are a strong enough candidate for balanced PhDs as well. You shoudl talk to more people from different programs, as it seems that the students you talked to have a very myopic and inaccurate view of the field. Otherwise, you could be looking back at some very expensive mistakes when it's all said and done.

 

[PsyNeuro37]

You're right, each school is different. And it definitely would be nice to not be in debt! May I ask what PsyD program you went to/what programs you looked at? Also, I'm a little lost about what to do for my gap year. If I'm planning on applying to PhD programs now, I would assume I should continue being a research assistant. It's super hard to get anything clinically related, especially in forensic psych, while in undergrad.

It was one of the ones you listed in your original post, but I try not to share too much because I prefer to stay anonymous on the internet (neuro is a small world!). Of the ones you listed Denver is extremely expensive and widener/nova/midwestern don’t have the best reputations. I’d probably cut those. Off the top of my head, Indiana State, UHouston Clear Lake, James Madison, Indiana U Pennsylvania, and Radford all have good PsyD funding I believe or are pretty cheap because they’re public universities and you would get in-state tuition. Not sure what the forensic training looks like at them though

 

[PikminOC]

Op they may be recommending full funded PhD because psyd programs are expensive. However they don't know your finances. Some people are able to pay for the psyd.

 

[WisNeuro]

Op they may be recommending full funded PhD because psyd programs are expensive. However they don't know your finances. Some people are able to pay for the psyd.

We are mostly recommending fully funded programs because a very high percentage of unfunded programs, both PhD and PsyD, are very low quality with terrible outcome metrics in addition to being exorbitantly expensive.

 

[summerbabe]

I'm also not too worried about loans for a number of reasons, but I am also looking at careers with the Bureau of Prisons, which I know they offer loan forgiveness if you work for them for a certain number of years.

Loan forgiveness can be a good option for many but one shouldn't put all of their eggs in this basket, especially since programs can change. It's also not uncommon for people to successfully receive some type of loan forgiveness and experience a lot of financial stressors due to still having outstanding debt afterwards.

Additionally, if you haven't looked into the specifics of different programs, make sure to do so before committing. Loan forgiveness programs vary in terms of how much funding they can provide (potentially well below what one has borrowed), whether undergrad loans (if you have them) can be included, and how payments are dispersed (e.g., reimbursement-based programs like VA EDRP require you have to front the money towards loan repayment so if life circumstances prevent making payments, you will lose out on full program benefits).

And of course, unexpected life circumstances can leave you with a mountain of debt. For example, if you look at doctoral program attrition rates, a good chunk of people start but do not finish their PsyD/PhD. It's a very different financial story to not finish a funded program versus a self-pay program.

All in all, a self-pay PsyD can be a good option for some but it is not without substantial risk. If you are a competitive candidate, including some funded PsyD or PhD would be wise. Not getting in during one's first admission cycle is a pretty common experience for practicing psychologists (myself included). I recognized why I wasn't successful during my 1st cycle, made myself more competitive, and landed in a solid and fully funded PhD program during my 2nd cycle.

 

[Epak333]

It was one of the ones you listed in your original post, but I try not to share too much because I prefer to stay anonymous on the internet (neuro is a small world!). Of the ones you listed Denver is extremely expensive and widener/nova/midwestern don’t have the best reputations. I’d probably cut those. Off the top of my head, Indiana State, UHouston Clear Lake, James Madison, Indiana U Pennsylvania, and Radford all have good PsyD funding I believe or are pretty cheap because they’re public universities and you would get in-state tuition. Not sure what the forensic training looks like at them though

Ah okay no worries! And I heard Widener is really good for forensic psych but maybe I'm mistaken. My thing is a lot of the schools I picked are in warmer climates, I'm soooo sick of the cold. I know that's not the main thing to base it off of but I know I'll be miserable if I have to live through 5 years of brutal winters. I'll keep that all in mind, thank you!

 

[Epak333]

Loan forgiveness can be a good option for many but one shouldn't put all of their eggs in this basket, especially since programs can change. It's also not uncommon for people to successfully receive some type of loan forgiveness and experience a lot of financial stressors due to still having outstanding debt afterwards.

Additionally, if you haven't looked into the specifics of different programs, make sure to do so before committing. Loan forgiveness programs vary in terms of how much funding they can provide (potentially well below what one has borrowed), whether undergrad loans (if you have them) can be included, and how payments are dispersed (e.g., reimbursement-based programs like VA EDRP require you have to front the money towards loan repayment so if life circumstances prevent making payments, you will lose out on full program benefits).

And of course, unexpected life circumstances can leave you with a mountain of debt. For example, if you look at doctoral program attrition rates, a good chunk of people start but do not finish their PsyD/PhD. It's a very different financial story to not finish a funded program versus a self-pay program.

All in all, a self-pay PsyD can be a good option for some but it is not without substantial risk. If you are a competitive candidate, including some funded PsyD or PhD would be wise. Not getting in during one's first admission cycle is a pretty common experience for practicing psychologists (myself included). I recognized why I wasn't successful during my 1st cycle, made myself more competitive, and landed in a solid and fully funded PhD program during my 2nd cycle.

Makes sense, I appreciate the advice. Looks like I'm back to the drawing board

 

[Epak333]

If you are a strong enough candidate for legitimate PsyDs, you are a strong enough candidate for balanced PhDs as well. You shoudl talk to more people from different programs, as it seems that the students you talked to have a very myopic and inaccurate view of the field. Otherwise, you could be looking back at some very expensive mistakes when it's all said and done.

The students I talked to are actually very well versed in the field, I just know that for their program specifically the research is vigorous. This may not be the case for other programs. Thank you for your help!

 

[Epak333]

My top choices as of right now are Florida Tech, Baylor, and Georgia Southern so I'll definitely keep those. I'll look into some PhDs too, thank you everyone!

 

[WisNeuro]

The students I talked to are actually very well versed in the field, I just know that for their program specifically the research is vigorous. This may not be the case for other programs. Thank you for your help!

Maybe in some areas, but it seems that they have given you a very skewed view of the research intensity of programs, or that they generalized their own experience to all programs. I would still heartily recommend speaking to students and faculty from several programs to get a wide view of how things work. Even programs housed within R1s can be more clinically focused.

 

[Epak333]

Maybe in some areas, but it seems that they have given you a very skewed view of the research intensity of programs, or that they generalized their own experience to all programs. I would still heartily recommend speaking to students and faculty from several programs to get a wide view of how things work. Even programs housed within R1s can be more clinically focused.

Gotcha, I am talking to someone from Widener this week so hopefully she can speak to her PsyD program/experience applying. Maybe I will apply to some PhD programs. If I were to apply to both, and only got into a PsyD program the first time, should I just go to whatever one I get into (given all the ones I apply to are reputable)? Or should I apply a second time?

 

[PikminOC]

Loan forgiveness can be a good option for many but one shouldn't put all of their eggs in this basket, especially since programs can change. It's also not uncommon for people to successfully receive some type of loan forgiveness and experience a lot of financial stressors due to still having outstanding debt afterwards.

Additionally, if you haven't looked into the specifics of different programs, make sure to do so before committing. Loan forgiveness programs vary in terms of how much funding they can provide (potentially well below what one has borrowed), whether undergrad loans (if you have them) can be included, and how payments are dispersed (e.g., reimbursement-based programs like VA EDRP require you have to front the money towards loan repayment so if life circumstances prevent making payments, you will lose out on full program benefits).

And of course, unexpected life circumstances can leave you with a mountain of debt. For example, if you look at doctoral program attrition rates, a good chunk of people start but do not finish their PsyD/PhD. It's a very different financial story to not finish a funded program versus a self-pay program.

All in all, a self-pay PsyD can be a good option for some but it is not without substantial risk. If you are a competitive candidate, including some funded PsyD or PhD would be wise. Not getting in during one's first admission cycle is a pretty common experience for practicing psychologists (myself included). I recognized why I wasn't successful during my 1st cycle, made myself more competitive, and landed in a solid and fully funded PhD program during my 2nd cycle.

What are the attrition rates?

 

[PikminOC]

Gotcha, I am talking to someone from Widener this week so hopefully she can speak to her PsyD program/experience applying. Maybe I will apply to some PhD programs. If I were to apply to both, and only got into a PsyD program the first time, should I just go to whatever one I get into (given all the ones I apply to are reputable)? Or should I apply a second time?

Also you may change your mind about prison work due your time in school.

 

[Epak333]

Also you may change your mind about prison work due your time in school.

All of them are in the mid 80s to 90s. Also very true, I do currently work with inmates and I enjoy it, but I'm sure it's different when you're actually providing therapy for them. Hence why I'm also unsure if I should go to a program with a forensic specialty or just do a general clinical psych program. Will I be trapped if I pick the specialty and end up not liking it?

 

[szymk1sm]

All of them are in the mid 80s to 90s. Also very true, I do currently work with inmates and I enjoy it, but I'm sure it's different when you're actually providing therapy for them. Hence why I'm also unsure if I should go to a program with a forensic specialty or just do a general clinical psych program. Will I be trapped if I pick the specialty and end up not liking it?

Even with a forensic specialization, you are a clinical psychologist first and any program should be teaching you foundational skills in intervention and assessment, period. You then take those foundational skills and apply them to your populations of interest (in your case, forensics and then you also receive forensic-specific training).

You may enter a graduate program in the forensics track or with a forensics mentor, but you could change your mind about what you ultimately want to do by the end of graduate school. You may still need to complete research and your dissertation in forensics, but you could apply to non-forensic internships or do a non-forensics postdoc. There is some flexibility in this career path and there are multiple points where you could decide forensics is not for you.

With that being said, you want to make a somewhat informed choice prior to applying for graduate schools so that mentors are not wasting their resources on someone who is not invested in that career path. But at the same time, life happens and interests change.

Anecdotes: we had some people who attended my grad school who ultimately left after finishing their master's b/c clinical psychology was not the right fit (and they pivoted to a different health service career). We also had students come in on one track and then switch to another after gaining some foundational skills and breadth of experiences. Granted there's more that goes into it then simply switching tracks / coursework, but it could be possible.

 

[Epak333]

Even with a forensic specialization, you are a clinical psychologist first and any program should be teaching you foundational skills in intervention and assessment, period. You then take those foundational skills and apply them to your populations of interest (in your case, forensics and then you also receive forensic-specific training).

You may enter a graduate program in the forensics track or with a forensics mentor, but you could change your mind about what you ultimately want to do by the end of graduate school. You may still need to complete research and your dissertation in forensics, but you could apply to non-forensic internships or do a non-forensics postdoc. There is some flexibility in this career path and there are multiple points where you could decide forensics is not for you.

With that being said, you want to make a somewhat informed choice prior to applying for graduate schools so that mentors are not wasting their resources on someone who is not invested in that career path. But at the same time, life happens and interests change.

Anecdotes: we had some people who attended my grad school who ultimately left after finishing their master's b/c clinical psychology was not the right fit (and they pivoted to a different health service career). We also had students come in on one track and then switch to another after gaining some foundational skills and breadth of experiences. Granted there's more that goes into it then simply switching tracks / coursework, but it could be possible.

Thanks for the info! As of right now, I feel very passionate about forensics but that, of course, could change once I get some real experience. I'm also interested in sports psychology, so I guess that would be my "back up" if I wanted to switch. So it seems that it doesn't make too much of a difference if I go into a program with a forensic track or not, as there will always be some flexibility. What about if I were to complete my internship/postdoc in forensics and become a licensed forensic psychologist, work for some years as that, and then decide I want to switch down the road. What would the process look like for respecializing?

 

[WisNeuro]

Thanks for the info! As of right now, I feel very passionate about forensics but that, of course, could change once I get some real experience. I'm also interested in sports psychology, so I guess that would be my "back up" if I wanted to switch. So it seems that it doesn't make too much of a difference if I go into a program with a forensic track or not, as there will always be some flexibility. What about if I were to complete my internship/postdoc in forensics and become a licensed forensic psychologist, work for some years as that, and then decide I want to switch down the road. What would the process look like for respecializing?

There is no licensure for a forensic psychologist, just as there are only one or two jurisdictions that license clinical neuropsychologists. Most of us are clinical psychologists who specialize in a certain area and practice neuro and/or forensics.

 

[szymk1sm]

Thanks for the info! As of right now, I feel very passionate about forensics but that, of course, could change once I get some real experience. I'm also interested in sports psychology, so I guess that would be my "back up" if I wanted to switch. So it seems that it doesn't make too much of a difference if I go into a program with a forensic track or not, as there will always be some flexibility. What about if I were to complete my internship/postdoc in forensics and become a licensed forensic psychologist, work for some years as that, and then decide I want to switch down the road. What would the process look like for respecializing?

My understanding is that you don't really switch specialty focuses like that when you're well into your career. I'm sure it happens, but it's not the norm. Forensics and sports psychology are very different specialty areas and you would need a lot of supervision to be considered an expert in either. If you somehow got both during grad school, then maybe that would be a start. But you have to figure not many people are going to become a forensic psychologist at that pay rate and then give up a large chunk of that money while they are receiving supervision to pivot to a sports psychology career. You shouldn't be billing for services that you are not equipped to provide (i.e., practicing outside your scope / skill set).

I'm less versed in the sports psychology world, but at least to respecialize in neuropsych following licensure, you would have identify (and likely pay) a mentor to assist you with self-study to learn basic / advanced neuropsych concepts and assessment and then do a 2-year supervised "fellowship" experience to get yourself up to par with your peers. The one person I know of who did this essentially had to give up at least 2-years of income and pay for supervision, as their "neuropsych fellowship" slot was added to an already established neuropsych training program. I think there are a few neuropsych respecialization programs out there, but they don't have good reputations.

You may want to see if there are forensic or sports psychology respecialization programs out there now. And if you don't find any, then you have your answer.

 

[Epak333]

There is no licensure for a forensic psychologist, just as there are only one or two jurisdictions that license clinical neuropsychologists. Most of us are clinical psychologists who specialize in a certain area and practice neuro and/or forensics.

Right, I just meant if I become a clinical psychologist who specializes in forensics, how would one switch to a different area, like sports psych? Would I have to get a certain number of hours at an internship that specializes in that?

 

[Epak333]

My understanding is that you don't really switch specialty focuses like that when you're well into your career. I'm sure it happens, but it's not the norm. Forensics and sports psychology are very different specialty areas and you would need a lot of supervision to be considered an expert in either. If you somehow got both during grad school, then maybe that would be a start. But you have to figure not many people are going to become a forensic psychologist at that pay rate and then give up a large chunk of that money while they are receiving supervision to pivot to a sports psychology career. You shouldn't be billing for services that you are not equipped to provide (i.e., practicing outside your scope / skill set).

I'm less versed in the sports psychology world, but at least to respecialize in neuropsych following licensure, you would have identify (and likely pay) a mentor to assist you with self-study to learn basic / advanced neuropsych concepts and assessment and then do a 2-year supervised "fellowship" experience to get yourself up to par with your peers. The one person I know of who did this essentially had to give up at least 2-years of income and pay for supervision, as their "neuropsych fellowship" slot was added to an already established neuropsych training program. I think there are a few neuropsych respecialization programs out there, but they don't have good reputations.

You may want to see if there are forensic or sports psychology respecialization programs out there now. And if you don't find any, then you have your answer.

Okay that makes sense. I know either way I would be a licensed clinical psychologist, I just wasn't sure how one specializes in a specific area other than through the research you do in grad school and post doc internships. I'm pretty dead set on forensics so I doubt I would want to switch, but it seems like the best time to switch would be while you're still completing your graduate degree. I think it would be possible to combine the two slightly--I am interested in the correlations between CTE/TBIs in contact sports or just participation in contact sports in general and committing crimes. Although that might be considered more neuro and it would be hard to find a mentor who studies exactly that.

 

[WisNeuro]

Right, I just meant if I become a clinical psychologist who specializes in forensics, how would one switch to a different area, like sports psych? Would I have to get a certain number of hours at an internship that specializes in that?

You would need to get the amount and type of training that would satisfy your state board in case of a complaint. But no, not an internship. Internships do not retrain psychologists. You are one and done when it comes to internship.

 

[MAClinician]

Maybe first you should read this:
https://mitch.web.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4922/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

And then decide which degree you need to do the work you are interested in. Talk to people doing that work to see how they got to that position. What education and experience did they need? You have some very different interests which is fine but it is difficult to explore all of them in any one graduate program. Good luck!

 

[WisNeuro]

I will say, if you are going forensic, which generally has a lot of assessment, you will need very good assessment training. You will also need to understand psychometrics inside and out, and be able to explain those concepts in legal settings to laymen. You will also need to understand very well how to evaluate research, as well as the strengths and limitations of such to avoid getting torched by other experts. So, you may want to consider just how much research expertise you may need for your chosen specialization.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I will say, if you are going forensic, which generally has a lot of assessment, you will need very good assessment training. You will also need to understand psychometrics inside and out, and be able to explain those concepts in legal settings to laymen. You will also need to understand very well how to evaluate research, as well as the strengths and limitations of such to avoid getting torched by other experts. So, you may want to consider just how much research expertise you may need for your chosen specialization.

+1

You should definitely do a PhD (going back to the first post) if there is a focus on forensic in any way. Beyond the broader issues of debt/long term impacts, etc., they are going to give you the smaller-class experience needed for the level of knowledge you have to have. The research will make you more legit and less prone to getting destroyed by cross. When I get on the stand, they dont challenge me nearly the way that they do/can others without my assessment background/pubs/positions/etc. Regardless, this is a super important part of injury related eval

 

[Epak333]

You would need to get the amount and type of training that would satisfy your state board in case of a complaint. But no, not an internship. Internships do not retrain psychologists. You are one and done when it comes to internship.

Got it thanks!

 

[Epak333]

Maybe first you should read this:
https://mitch.web.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4922/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

And then decide which degree you need to do the work you are interested in. Talk to people doing that work to see how they got to that position. What education and experience did they need? You have some very different interests which is fine but it is difficult to explore all of them in any one graduate program. Good luck!

Yes lol I'm kind of all over the place. And I don't want to necessarily do research on all of them, more-so just ideas of things I would be interested in. Any forensic related research though is interesting tome! And thank you so much, I'll check it out!

 

[Epak333]

I will say, if you are going forensic, which generally has a lot of assessment, you will need very good assessment training. You will also need to understand psychometrics inside and out, and be able to explain those concepts in legal settings to laymen. You will also need to understand very well how to evaluate research, as well as the strengths and limitations of such to avoid getting torched by other experts. So, you may want to consider just how much research expertise you may need for your chosen specialization.

Yes, either way I need a strong background in research.

 

[Epak333]

+1

You should definitely do a PhD (going back to the first post) if there is a focus on forensic in any way. Beyond the broader issues of debt/long term impacts, etc., they are going to give you the smaller-class experience needed for the level of knowledge you have to have. The research will make you more legit and less prone to getting destroyed by cross. When I get on the stand, they dont challenge me nearly the way that they do/can others without my assessment background/pubs/positions/etc. Regardless, this is a super important part of injury related eval

I think I'm reconsidering my school choices now lol. Also, I don't think I would want to be a witness in court or do any court related stuff unless necessary. Is that something that most forensic psychologists do?

 

[Justanothergrad]

I think I'm reconsidering my school choices now lol. Also, I don't think I would want to be a witness in court or do any court related stuff unless necessary. Is that something that most forensic psychologists do?

Yes. And anything related to forensic or disability has that open potential. don't consider it If that is an issue, it limits your scope drastically

 

[Epak333]

Yes. And anything related to forensic or disability has that open potential. don't consider it If that is an issue, it limits your scope drastically

I mean I wouldn't mind doing it but it's not something that I would primarily want to do. I would primarily want to be in the prison/working with clients.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I mean I wouldn't mind doing it but it's not something that I would primarily want to do. I would primarily want to be in the prison/working with clients.

You may want that, AND, you will find that your work will involve competency evaluations, testifying for those, risk assessments, testifying for those, etc. I would recommend doing some deep soul searching about what aspects of forensics you will be comfortable involving in regular parts of life. If you work for the DOC, its going to be what they want more than what you do in terms of daily tasks

 

[Epak333]

You may want that, AND, you will find that your work will involve competency evaluations, testifying for those, risk assessments, testifying for those, etc. I would recommend doing some deep soul searching about what aspects of forensics you will be comfortable involving in regular parts of life. If you work for the DOC, its going to be what they want more than what you do in terms of daily tasks

Gotcha, any type of forensic work interests me but definitely working directly with inmates is something I primarily want. I could see myself somehow working with the FBI or the Innocence Project (or just with the wrongfully convicted in some capacity). Possibly child custody evals too and working with the kids involved in those situations. Maybe private practice? Testifying is cool too! Just not something I could see myself doing as a primary thing in a 40 hour work week. Do you think any of these would be attainable? I know I'm interested in many different things but I could see myself doing any of them and being happy.