PT to MD/DO with my numbers????

[PTtoMD2010]

Well here goes....

I graduated from undergrad with a 3.0 science and 3.3 cum GPA. And DPT with a 3.6 GPA. Ive heard people talking about after 10 years admissions wont look as much into undergrad but Im only 3 years out of undergrad.
Also my grad GPA isnt stellar. If I retake and average 3.75 and only shoot for DO then I can have a cum and science GPA of around 3.6 (with DO grade forgiveness) because the only thing that brought my cGPA down was science otherwise I had a 3.7(being a pre-PT major I have alot of sciences).
I guess my main question is usually non trads have other degrees and never took sciences. Obviously if I retake a science its expected that i do better. Will that show the upward trend? Do I need to retake more high level classes besies BIo, Chem and Physics 1 and 2 such as genetics and biochem? this is assuming I get at least a 28 on my MCAts (for DO school)

Finally how does all this sound for MD (with a >31-32 on MCAT)
Take into consideration Id like to stay in NY.
Any help/suggestions would be great. If there were any other PT or other health professional to MD/DO your story would be good to hear in how you went about doing it.

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[gman33]

MD is going to be tough. I'd focus on DO and retake classes.
Wherever you heard that after 10 years schools don't care about your UG; that couldn't be more wrong. The system is not setup for non-trads, and they will always care about your old grades. Won't they won't care about are your DPT grades. I know that sounds crazy, but that's the way it works.

Retake all the prereqs if you haven't mastered that material. You will need it to prep for the MCATs. 1-2 years of full-time work is probably needed before you apply. Make sure you take things slow and ensure all A's in the retakes.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

You'll get shot at for assuming DO school is second-class status. I wouldn't say allopathic school is out-of-the-question, especially if you do well. But, you're right, allopathic schools don't have grade replacement and that may drag your averages.

I think everyone should have at least 2-3 upper division electives when applying to medical school - biochem, cell bio, genetics. Remember, the core prerequisites are the bare minimum and not many people get into medical school these days with a bare minimum anything. You will not need to apologize or explain much about re-taking your basic sciences, since most schools prefer that pre-reqs not be 10 years old, even with a good MCAT.

But, old grades do indeed count. I was 43 when I interviewed for medical school in 2005, and I got asked questions about my astronomy course, which was included in my BCPM. I had taken that course in the Fall of 1979 in my first semester as an undergraduate - but it still counted. I answered the question and managed to suppress the urge to reply, "how the hell am I supposed to remember anything about a course I took over 25 years ago?"

 

[PTtoMD2010]

Thanks for the advice also trying to put this post back on top for some more replies

 

[dragonfly99]

Are you sure you want to quit PT, without every really practicing PT very long? Are you sure it is worth the opportunity cost of quitting a good paying health care job to go back and go for 7-11 more years of education (because that is what med school + residency is) and possibly take on 200k more in debt? Are you on solid financial footing to be able to do this?

I think that MD school will be tough with your prior GPA, even if you brought it up somewhat. I have heard it's quite hard to get into med school in New York state also, but have no personal knowledge; I assume it's harder than some other states. DO schools would be a better bet. You can try for both if you like. First I would retake any bio/chem/physics classes you either never took or previously took and got less than a B. I would think hard if you really want to go for another doctorate after you already invested so much in getting one...it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[DrMidlife]

One DO school that I interviewed at does a sit-down transcript review. I have 5 undergrad transcripts covering 25 years. I watched the 22 year olds go into this review with an administrator, and come out in 10 minutes, sweating and twitchy. I walked in, joked "let's get to it, we've got 25 years to cover" and got no response. The administrator proceeded to start with 1984, asking "what happened here?" with everything B or under. We'd made it to about 1989 when the time was up. She stopped, with a "well, this doesn't look very good, does it?" That felt awesome. If I hadn't been sitting in the competitive pool at UWash at the time, I think I would have had a nervous breakdown on the spot. This DO school obviously rejected me.

I think the administrator actually expected me to have a story for every line item on my transcripts, regardless of the line count (which is well over 100). I could see this, for somebody who gets out of college in 4 years. In my case I view it as inappropriate and insulting to make me pay for cross country travel to pointlessly defend my old dirty transcripts, when every class I ever took was listed on my app from the get go and they could have just said no ahead of time.

That's my worst case transcript story, but transcripts were an issue in all my interviews (and certainly in all my rejections).

As for applying to med school after being a PT, in those shoes I would plan to spend a full time year taking undergrad upper div science, instead of repeating courses, unless you got less than a C in a prereq. On top of a >3.3 cumulative, a strong science year and maybe a 32+ MCAT would put you in MD territory, imho.

Best of luck to you.

 

[PTtoMD2010]

Thanks for the replies. Part of my reason for wanting to retake was not only for DO school but for Mcat prep because its been so long since I took Bio, Chem...
Also the only class I got less than a B in was my science prereqs. I got married, had kids, brother got cancer and worked full-time wife was also a full-time student........ So had alot on my plate at the time. I know its no excuse because things always come up but I was a very different student which grad school proved.
So no retakes?
As for wanting to be a doctor it was always my dream and all of the above derailed that and now I want to get on course. Does anyone know if being a PT helps?

 

[futureboy]

Are you sure you want to quit PT, without every really practicing PT very long?

You will probably have to answer this question several times. Med schools will want to know why you're quitting, and why med school.

 

[bigpharmD]

Thanks for the replies. Part of my reason for wanting to retake was not only for DO school but for Mcat prep because its been so long since I took Bio, Chem...
Also the only class I got less than a B in was my science prereqs. I got married, had kids, brother got cancer and worked full-time wife was also a full-time student........ So had alot on my plate at the time. I know its no excuse because things always come up but I was a very different student which grad school proved.
So no retakes?
As for wanting to be a doctor it was always my dream and all of the above derailed that and now I want to get on course. Does anyone know if being a PT helps?

Being a PT will not help getting in. You have to get the right numbers.

 

[DPT2DO]

It's good to see another fellow PT. I'm in a similar situation, only I've been practicing for almost two years. Being a PT should help you in some ways, I would assume, especially considering that you must have had some hospital experience during you clerkships, adding up to close to a year. Any patient care is a plus on your application. Additionally, your graduate coursework in health sciences was likely rigorous and gave you an excellent biological and gross physiological background.

For me, none of my undergrad sciences count towards med school req's since they were taken from the college of health professions. Even as an exercise physiology major. Some adm officers I spoke with said these classes were fine but most schools said nay. This is actually good for me, since my undergrad sci GPA would have been around a 3.1; now I can start fresh. Unfortunately, I've already taken some classes out of order, ie already completed orgo I and currently taking orgo II, since I had initially thought my physiological chemistry would fulfill the pre-req's. I'm also taking Bio II, having completed Bio I already. So I will be taking Gen. Chem. I & II this summer, then a full school year (part-time) of upper div courses (biochem, physiology, cell bio, and genetics). Applying to enter in 2011.

I'm currently working as a PT in a private outpatient practice and I actually enjoy it. I do almost exclusively initial evaluations and re-evaluations on orthopedic/sports med patients; sometimes as the first practitioner they see. I basically see it as working as a sports med FP doc, without ability to prescribe, inject, order imaging, etc. Instead I prescribe exercise. It's actually a nice gig; I have 30 min to an hour per evaluation, and it pays well. You should really consider working before making a decision. For me, I despise the limitations in scope and feel that I was misled prior to entering PT school. Everyone tells you you're gonna be a "Doctor" of PT, sipping martinis from a yacht of the coast of martha's vineyard while autonomously reciting the vision 2020...

Anyway, good luck and feel free to message me with questions re the PT profession.

 

[PTtoMD2010]

I hear you with the 2020 crap and practitioner of choice. The truth is that I thought also that there would be more that I can do for patients when in the end there isnt.

 

[PTtoMD2010]

Would a formal post-bac or smp, as opposed to just going back and taking upper div science classes be most appropriate/ help me in the end? If so, whats the difference?

 

[Grey Wind]

One DO school that I interviewed at does a sit-down transcript review. I have 5 undergrad transcripts covering 25 years. I watched the 22 year olds go into this review with an administrator, and come out in 10 minutes, sweating and twitchy. I walked in, joked "let's get to it, we've got 25 years to cover" and got no response. The administrator proceeded to start with 1984, asking "what happened here?" with everything B or under. We'd made it to about 1989 when the time was up. She stopped, with a "well, this doesn't look very good, does it?" That felt awesome. If I hadn't been sitting in the competitive pool at UWash at the time, I think I would have had a nervous breakdown on the spot. This DO school obviously rejected me.

I think the administrator actually expected me to have a story for every line item on my transcripts, regardless of the line count (which is well over 100). I could see this, for somebody who gets out of college in 4 years. In my case I view it as inappropriate and insulting to make me pay for cross country travel to pointlessly defend my old dirty transcripts, when every class I ever took was listed on my app from the get go and they could have just said no ahead of time.

That's my worst case transcript story, but transcripts were an issue in all my interviews (and certainly in all my rejections).

As for applying to med school after being a PT, in those shoes I would plan to spend a full time year taking undergrad upper div science, instead of repeating courses, unless you got less than a C in a prereq. On top of a >3.3 cumulative, a strong science year and maybe a 32+ MCAT would put you in MD territory, imho.

Best of luck to you.

Horrible!

 

[PTtoMD2010]

Would a formal post-bac or smp, as opposed to just going back and taking upper div science classes be most appropriate/ help me in the end? If so, whats the difference?

 

[DO2Be2013]

Actually, I got in D.O. this year with stats very close to what you have right now. 3.09 overall GPA and 29 MCAT. And I did do the quote "bare minimum" science pre-reqs... no upper level micro or biochem or anything. So to me, obviously, your chances don't seem far-fetched at all.

 

[Kvj]

/hijack

so if you get a C in a class and retake it for an A, allo med schools will use both grades?

 

[PTtoMD2010]

kvj yes they will average them,

DO to be did you have an upward trend? How was your science GPA? because I hear that counts more and for me I have a 3.7 overall and a 3.0 science
Also good luck where are you going?

 

[PTtoMD2010]

Actaully I see from anjother of your posts that you got all As and Bs as for me the only C I ever got was in a science class. The bright side is that all this talk of schools wanting to see that you went to a good school and not a CC is very encouraging because I didnt see any other option besides that because of my family.

 

[aviemd]

Seeing as I'm a PT to MD (Stony Brook, 1st year) success story, I'm happy to make my first SDN post on this thread. There is a lot of stuff I wanted to address, so I apologize in advance for the long post.

Personally, I only had to do orgo as a prereq, which I did as a summer class. If there are many prereqs you need to complete in order to fulfill the req or improve a grade, then I would recommend a post-bac or similar. This is because these programs are considered to be more rigorous and comprehensive than doing the courses a la carte. Therefore, they will be looked upon with greater weight by an admissions committee. It provides the opportunity to do other suggested courses (ie. genetics, cell bio), which will also be looked upon favorably.

As for DO vs MD, I think it is narrow minded for a healthcare practitioner to rank the professions. That being said, I got in to every DO program I applied and only 2 MD's (all in the NY metro region). I felt my stats were adequate for either degree. Coming from an allied health background, DO programs seem to appreciate the patient care experience because of their emphasis on primary medical care.

Academic stats are as important for a non-traditional applicant as they are for a new grad. However, the allied health science training and clinical experiences are irreplaceable. Take advantage of these qualities to improve your credentials and give yourself a leg up on the other "less experienced" applicants in your personal statement and on interviews. Any PT to MD applicant will also be able to draw on previous coursework in anatomy, neurology, physiology, etc. This will help with many of the courses in the first 2 years of med school.

Lastly, I can't emphasize how important it is to be able to adequately explain your decision to leave this career path to pursue your MD degree. You will definitely be asked this question on an interview, not to mention for many months (and possibly years) to come.

Good luck to all. I think I'm proof that this path is possible and gives us a perspective that many other students can't come close to simulating.