Pts ranking for residency programs based on fellowships

[dermpathlover]

For those not completely restricted by geographical considerations, I would strongly recommend the following formula to help rank pathology programs that you might be considering based on number and types of fellowships they have. The truth is you can get adequate training most anywhere, so you need to consider intangibles like the next phase in the game.

I propose the following scoring system.

Points = 2x(number of derm spots) + 2x(number of GI spots) + (number of GU spots) + (number of cyto spots) + (number of heme spots) + (number of surg path spots)/2.

Then I would subtract 10 points if the program is bent on not taking their own residents, but I doubt that is the case anywhere. Add 3 points if they try to fill everything with their own residents first before opening them up to outsiders. This is info you can only know if you have met some of the current/past residents.

If I was considering 4-5 different places, this is how I would decide things.

I'll work it out for some prominent programs so we can see the truly best places to go but I'm on surg path right now and kind of busy. So maybe this weekend.

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[DarksideAllstar]

For those not completely restricted by geographical considerations, I would strongly recommend the following formula to help rank pathology programs that you might be considering based on number and types of fellowships they have. The truth is you can get adequate training most anywhere, so you need to consider intangibles like the next phase in the game.

I propose the following scoring system.

Points = 2x(number of derm spots) + 2x(number of GI spots) + (number of GU spots) + (number of cyto spots) + (number of heme spots) + (number of surg path spots)/2.

Then I would subtract 10 points if the program is bent on not taking their own residents, but I doubt that is the case anywhere. Add 3 points if they try to fill everything with their own residents first before opening them up to outsiders. This is info you can only know if you have met some of the current/past residents.

If I was considering 4-5 different places, this is how I would decide things.

I'll work it out for some prominent programs so we can see the truly best places to go but I'm on surg path right now and kind of busy. So maybe this weekend.

Kinda late there aren't we buddy? ROLs were due like almost 3 weeks ago. Besides, I'm not sure how many people would follow your formula if they have ZERO interest in any of those fellowships, except maybe surg path.

 

[LADoc00]

is this a serious post??

where is the bonus for hottie fellow residents?

 

[djmd]

is this a serious post??

where is the bonus for hottie fellow residents?

Points = (2x(number of derm spots) + 2x(number of GI spots) + (number of GU spots) + (number of cyto spots) + (number of heme spots) + (number of surg path spots)/2)x pi x 0 + hottie fellow residents.

 

[dermpathlover]

Kinda late there aren't we buddy? ROLs were due like almost 3 weeks ago. Besides, I'm not sure how many people would follow your formula if they have ZERO interest in any of those fellowships, except maybe surg path.

It is for future applicants. If you already know you are interested in ear pathology, then you don't need to think of these things. If you are mainstream or don't know what to do, then for sure use this formula.

Gotta go.

 

[PathOne]

The place that has the largest # of Dermpath fellowship spots has NO residents... bummer. How does that make it into the equation?
Also, how would your formula work for those gunning for that small and insignificant place called MSKCC? (also no path residents)...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but life, including residency life, just cannot be based on a formula.

 

[danaphosaurus]

I propose the following scoring system.

Points = 2x(number of derm spots) + 2x(number of GI spots) + (number of GU spots) + (number of cyto spots) + (number of heme spots) + (number of surg path spots)/2.

Then I would subtract 10 points if the program is bent on not taking their own residents, but I doubt that is the case anywhere. Add 3 points if they try to fill everything with their own residents first before opening them up to outsiders. This is info you can only know if you have met some of the current/past residents.

If I was considering 4-5 different places, this is how I would decide things.

I'll work it out for some prominent programs so we can see the truly best places to go but I'm on surg path right now and kind of busy. So maybe this weekend.

I'm sorry but this is both insane and stupid

 

[LADoc00]

where is the calculation for the area under the curve of the mean differences of the median base pay 1,3 and 5 years post training?? Of course with a factor that takes into account the standard deviations of those means.

 

[yaah]

Just because a place has a fellowship doesn't mean they are good fellowships. I think the ranking is worthless, mostly because a lot of the good programs are going to have lots of fellowships anyway, that's just the way things go.

Besides, it shouldn't matter if there are fellowships in everything anyway, just the area you want. Because everyone knows what they want to do before they start residency.

I think we should factor in median base pay, lots of Penn and Brigham residents probably won't be making very much, so clearly those are terrible programs.

 

[Gut Shot]

Here's a better formula:

Percent acceptability of program = 100 - (percent chance that DPL is at same institution)

 

[DarksideAllstar]

where is the calculation for the area under the curve of the mean differences of the median base pay 1,3 and 5 years post training?? Of course with a factor that takes into account the standard deviations of those means.

Dude, give me the limits, I'll come up with a function that best models the data, and I'll integrate that b!tch for ya.

PS- I like GutShot's formula. Hey DPL-- will you declare where you are a resident? If its somewhere I match, I'll happily break my contract and work overseas.

 

[PathOne]

I think we should factor in median base pay, lots of Penn and Brigham residents probably won't be making very much, so clearly those are terrible programs.

Geez! Didn't ya' know dat' already? Damn!
Everybody who's anybody clearly knows that Penn & BWH are the WORST places to train! Only reason so many of them goes on to fellowship is, that people simply take pity on them, and think that they simply HAVE to do a fellowship or two, to get anywhere close to the same level as the Residents at PoDunk University Medical Center & Sports Bar Extraordinaire.... (which, incidentally, has 20 Fellows as they're soooo much cheaper than attendings, so they're getting a REALLY high FellowshipRankingScore(TM).)

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I'm confused now.

 

[yaah]

I'm confused now.

Just follow the money. Obviously the best program will give you the most potential to make money, as that is the ultimate object (unless you are content with the money and just want power - but can you have one without the other?).

My view on salaries changes constantly. While I would like to make as much money as I can, I also continously notice that the people who make the most money seem to be the most bitter and obnoxious people. Personally, I am never going to settle for making minimum $$$ and take what they give me without an argument or a fight, but I also am not going to go for the highest paycheck.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Just follow the money. Obviously the best program will give you the most potential to make money, as that is the ultimate object (unless you are content with the money and just want power - but can you have one without the other?).

Oh I get it, you were being sarcastic.

My view on salaries changes constantly. While I would like to make as much money as I can, I also continously notice that the people who make the most money seem to be the most bitter and obnoxious people. Personally, I am never going to settle for making minimum $$$ and take what they give me without an argument or a fight, but I also am not going to go for the highest paycheck.

Middle ground is always a reasonable goal. Plus, you can always go for the 4th highest paycheck . I was never into making a ridiculous amount of cashola either...to do that, you need business savvy and I have none (not a big fan of business-dealings or I would've gone to B-skool).

 

[PathOne]

It never ceases to amaze me how important money is for future physicians. Even factoring in school debt, even a lowly paid FP would make more than, what, 90-95% of the population... Anyone who really, truly cares so much about how much bank they make should, well, work in a bank.

I don't have a problem with people making money. But it simply staggers the mind, that (especially) med students feel the need to be so preoccupied with their future paychecks. It's not like ANY medical specialty will reduce you to the poorhouse, nor will it ever allow you to make enough money to retire at 40.

 

[dermpathlover]

The place that has the largest # of Dermpath fellowship spots has NO residents... bummer. How does that make it into the equation?
Also, how would your formula work for those gunning for that small and insignificant place called MSKCC? (also no path residents)...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but life, including residency life, just cannot be based on a formula.

It is not a ranking of fellowhips but a ranking of residency programs. Get it?

 

[PathOne]

It is not a ranking of fellowhips but a ranking of residency programs. Get it?

Yes, I do read English quite well, thank you.

Point is, that Residents going on to Fellowship at the same institution is nowhere near as common, as your formula would suggest, rendering the size and scope of an institution's Fellowships much less important than your formula suggests. Some of the finest places in the country don't have Residents, as my original post suggested, and I've never heard of medium or large programs filling their Fellowship spots exclusively with their own Residents (as your formula indeed suggests, some programs even try not to fill with internal candidates).

Also, your formulaic approach is designed to favor the largest departments, but has absolutely no component which could determine quality. By your definition, the largest program in a given area would simply be the most attractive. And that's just not true.

 

[yaah]

A factor to consider:

Good programs that have lots of fellowships tend to have good residents. These residents are likely to be able to get fellowships at other institutions, but many of them choose to stay "home." When programs take their own, it is often because they are superior applicants and will get a spot somewhere else anyway. Not always, but often.

I agree about the $$$ business. I get irritated by the whole thing. A lot of it is misinformation and jealousy, neither of which are helpful.