Publications and Residency

[dgu334]

How many publications would you say is a good number to have by the end of 3rd year? Is it literally the more you have, the better? Or if you have a lot without having taken a year off, would people become skeptical? I'd rather not discuss the specifics of my situation.

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[Frazier]

Depends 100% on your specialty of interest and the academic prowess(prestige?) of the residency program/s you are interested in...

Since you prefer not to give any details, there is little to be said other than "look at Charting Outcomes".

PS: You have 2 posts... What is the major need for such extreme anonymity that you cannot expound on what you are talking about?

 

[JJMrK]

The more the better. Quality matters. Publications in your field of interest are more meaningful to your application.

If there is some other question you're trying to ask in a subtle way, you'll have to clarify.

 

[tylus]

Where I am at the number of papers is tied to your salary as it is a teaching hospital. So really there isn't an upper limit.

 

[dgu334]

So I have several publications so far but they are not associated with the current medical school I am attending. In fact, they are associated with a foreign university. These are all review articles that were published so I could remotely access the data charts and help in analyzing and writing the paper. I should also note that these papers were all published in an american journal. I was just wondering if residency programs will be skeptical as to how I would be doing research with a foreign university while I attend a US medical school.

 

[Winged Scapula]

So I have several publications so far but they are not associated with the current medical school I am attending. In fact, they are associated with a foreign university. These are all review articles that were published so I could remotely access the data charts and help in analyzing and writing the paper. I should also note that these papers were all published in an american journal. I was just wondering if residency programs will be skeptical as to how I would be doing research with a foreign university while I attend a US medical school.

I think you underestimate US faculty. It is not unusual to have changed institutions by the time work is published. If they're confused, perhaps they might, well...just ask you to explain.

 

[dgu334]

I think you underestimate US faculty. It is not unusual to have changed institutions by the time work is published. If they're confused, perhaps they might, well...just ask you to explain.

I'm not sure what you mean. I am currently doing research with a foreign university while attending an US medical school. I just thought residency directors would think that is sketchy..

 

[Cytarabine]

I'm not sure what you mean. I am currently doing research with a foreign university while attending an US medical school. I just thought residency directors would think that is sketchy..

Elaborate on what you think is sketchy about it

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not sure what you mean. I am currently doing research with a foreign university while attending an US medical school. I just thought residency directors would think that is sketchy..

Yes I understood what you were describing.

I'm saying you are underestimating the understanding of the situation, the detailed application review to even notice the difference in institutions or caring about it that US faculty would have. I'm not sure what's sketchy about it - people change institutions all the time, work at two different places, etc.

 

[mariambaby3]

Let's suppose the applicant is graduating from a top-20 USNR "research" category medical school and is looking to match into a top 5 or top 10 IM residency program.

How many publications do successful applicants/matchees in these categories have?

I understand of course that there are many other factors that play into the match, but strictly from a quantitative perspective of research publications, how many should one be aiming for?

 

[notbobtrustme]

Let's suppose the applicant is graduating from a top-20 USNR "research" category medical school and is looking to match into a top 5 or top 10 IM residency program.

How many publications do successful applicants/matchees in these categories have?

I understand of course that there are many other factors that play into the match, but strictly from a quantitative perspective of research publications, how many should one be aiming for?

0 to 100 publications.

 

[dgu334]

It's more qualitative than quantitative

What do you qualitative? As in impact factor of the journal?

 

[howbaddoyouwantit]

What about publications done before medical school, say as a Masters student or and Undergrad? They are affiliated with a medical school but not the one I am currently attending.

What do you qualitative? As in impact factor of the journal?

By qualitative I think they mean how many times has it has been cited, the type of research, etc. Impact factor is important but not always a determinant of a good quality paper.

 

[dgu334]

This and more.

When we look at an applicant's CV - we're not just looking at the number of publications.

What journal it's in, whether it's specific to the field you're applying in, who the mentor was (i.e. is it someone we know), was it presented at a national meeting?

What type of publication is it - a bunch of book chapters and review articles are less impressive than original research. It's harder to have a fruitful first authored basic science publication than it is to just churn out a chart review.

How does that research fit into the applicant's overall "story"? Does it match their expressed interests in their personal statement? Does it match what our program has to offer?

Those are just a few off the top of the head things.

Do these nitty gritty things really have that much of an impact?

I was told by several friends of mine who are residents in competitive specialities (but not at top tier programs) that all program directors care about is that you have your name on a publication(s). The only other thing they mentioned that you also mentioned was that it is even better if the publication is in the field you are going into, which is hard bc we don't really know what specialty we will do when we start research (usually summer after M1).

The stuff you mentioned above all seems like gravy. Do residency directors really put s lot of emphasis on all the stuff you mentioned or is having your name in a publication a lot more important and then this supplemental stuff is extra?

 

[JJMrK]

Do these nitty gritty things really have that much of an impact?

I was told by several friends of mine who are residents in competitive specialities (but not at top tier programs) that all program directors care about is that you have your name on a publication(s). The only other thing they mentioned that you also mentioned was that it is even better if the publication is in the field you are going into, which is hard bc we don't really know what specialty we will do when we start research (usually summer after M1).

The stuff you mentioned above all seems like gravy. Do residency directors really put s lot of emphasis on all the stuff you mentioned or is having your name in a publication a lot more important and then this supplemental stuff is extra?

Everything matters. Why would those evaluating the application choose to look at inferior publications as "equal" to superior ones? Sure, publishing something in any journal as any author is nice and a solid achievement. But...of course a publication in a highly ranked journal, or as first author is more impressive. Why would it not be?

 

[dgu334]

Everything matters. Why would those evaluating the application choose to look at inferior publications as "equal" to superior ones? Sure, publishing something in any journal as any author is nice and a solid achievement. But...of course a publication in a highly ranked journal, or as first author is more impressive. Why would it not be?

Of course it is going to help but what I'm trying to ask is if all those other factors are as important as having my name on a publication in the first place. To simplify this, my thinking right now is that having a name as any author on any published article gets me +100 points. Having each of those other things like first author, publishing in high impact journal, having journal cited many times, publishing original idea article rather than review article will each get me, say, +20 points each. I know it's not quantified and you don't get "points" for any of the above but is that the general idea?

 

[operaman]

While anything is better than no publications at all, I think sometimes advisors/friends say things to make students feel better that may not be entirely true. Sure, a name on a pub is a great, but not all pubs are equal. As someone currently interviewing for a competitive field, I can tell you that many people I see at the top interviews have multiple first author pubs in respected specialty journals. Some have only some posters/presentations and a couple nth author papers, but quite a few have 5+ solid pubs, many/most of them as the first author. And while nobody has said it, I have no doubt that the quality of the journal is noted, though perhaps not with the same level of scrutiny as one might apply at the faculty level when going for tenure or something.

I would also add that you will be asked about your research in detail at every interview, often by multiple faculty members aside from the "research room." If you're the first author, you obviously know the project really well and can easily discuss it and I think this shows. If you did a tiny piece of something or someone basically gave you a gift authorship, it would be tougher to field questions in these rooms.

 

[ChEMD]

While anything is better than no publications at all, I think sometimes advisors/friends say things to make students feel better that may not be entirely true. Sure, a name on a pub is a great, but not all pubs are equal. As someone currently interviewing for a competitive field, I can tell you that many people I see at the top interviews have multiple first author pubs in respected specialty journals. Some have only some posters/presentations and a couple nth author papers, but quite a few have 5+ solid pubs, many/most of them as the first author. And while nobody has said it, I have no doubt that the quality of the journal is noted, though perhaps not with the same level of scrutiny as one might apply at the faculty level when going for tenure or something.

I would also add that you will be asked about your research in detail at every interview, often by multiple faculty members aside from the "research room." If you're the first author, you obviously know the project really well and can easily discuss it and I think this shows. If you did a tiny piece of something or someone basically gave you a gift authorship, it would be tougher to field questions in these rooms.

Kind of off topic, but how do you know how many publications other people on the interview trail have? Do people go around openly talking about their qualifications to each other at the interview days?

 

[redpanda]

Kind of off topic, but how do you know how many publications other people on the interview trail have? Do people go around openly talking about their qualifications to each other at the interview days?

Sometimes people say stuff about their qualifications on interview day (biggest faux pas is during the icebreaker), which irks me to no end. If enough people start doing that to me on interview day, it's a place I think twice about when it comes to co-residents.

 

[operaman]

Kind of off topic, but how do you know how many publications other people on the interview trail have? Do people go around openly talking about their qualifications to each other at the interview days?

I haven't seen anyone discussing it openly. Many people bring copies of their pubs both for their own reference and in case interviewers ask, especially things in press but without a pmid yet, and I'll often see them thumbing through them right before interviews start.

It's a ridiculously qualified group of applicants, even more do than mere numbers in charting the outcomes would suggest. Very humbling and exciting all at the same time. Underclassmen would be well advised to do their absolute best in all areas because their counterparts around the country certainly are.

 

[operaman]

When you say 5+ papers, do you mean those done in medical school?

In many cases, yes. Some people who took a research year or did a phd have substantially more. I know one guy with 12 during only 4 yrs of med school. I did 5+ since starting med school.

There is no magic number and people match well with fewer. Obviously we aren't judged solely by our research, but it's important and people are doing more of it than you may think.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Well, this thread is utterly depressing.

 

[Apoplexy__]

What I learned from this thread: If you don't have 10+ first author pubs it's time to start looking into Peds in Alaska.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

So....someone plan my summer for me. (b/n M1 and M2) I'm interested in IR and the Society of IR has stated that clinical trials of their procedures are the big push for the future of the specialty. Should I try to get involved in IR research at my school if that's what I think I might be most interested in come M4?

 

[CodeRedDew]

In many cases, yes. Some people who took a research year or did a phd have substantially more. I know one guy with 12 during only 4 yrs of med school. I did 5+ since starting med school.

There is no magic number and people match well with fewer. Obviously we aren't judged solely by our research, but it's important and people are doing more of it than you may think.

5+ and were they all first authors?

 

[notbobtrustme]

While anything is better than no publications at all, I think sometimes advisors/friends say things to make students feel better that may not be entirely true. Sure, a name on a pub is a great, but not all pubs are equal. As someone currently interviewing for a competitive field, I can tell you that many people I see at the top interviews have multiple first author pubs in respected specialty journals. Some have only some posters/presentations and a couple nth author papers, but quite a few have 5+ solid pubs, many/most of them as the first author. And while nobody has said it, I have no doubt that the quality of the journal is noted, though perhaps not with the same level of scrutiny as one might apply at the faculty level when going for tenure or something.

I would also add that you will be asked about your research in detail at every interview, often by multiple faculty members aside from the "research room." If you're the first author, you obviously know the project really well and can easily discuss it and I think this shows. If you did a tiny piece of something or someone basically gave you a gift authorship, it would be tougher to field questions in these rooms.

What field, if you don't mind me asking?

Sounds like a surg subspecialty or rad-onc, but I just to have an idea of how broadly applicable your experience has been.

 

[operaman]

I would argue this thread is really saying that the days where you could apply to competitive programs with minimal research are basically over. Some advisors are still giving outdated advice that may not reflect the current reality. Your home PD is probably the best source for current trends in your desired field.

For certain people, a research year is absolutely a near requirement. This is highly situation specific however, taking into account your whole CV, the field, your goals, etc. My personal observation is that successful people fall into one of the following:

1) rock stars. These people have everything.

2) researchers. These people have been insanely productive but may have more average stats in other areas.

3)geniuses. These people have perfect grades and boards, average pubs, decent apps otherwise. In person they are instantly recognizable as brilliant.

4) clinical/social/hard workers. These are the people everyone loves, who rock clinically, who outwork everyone around them. They may have average stats everywhere else, but often distinguish themselves with aways or people making calls on their behalf.

I think research years can help some people find a way to really distinguish themselves if they don't necessarily fall into one of the other categories.

 

[operaman]

5+ and were they all first authors?

Yes. I've got a couple presentations where I wasn't/didn't present, but all my pubs and the assortment of presentations were all first author. Frankly, I need to get better at delegating more, but I came in with zero research background so I felt like I really needed to learn how to do research and move projects from A to Z. Really taking ownership of projects and seeing them all the way through was how I felt I could best accomplish this, and I found mentors who agreed and helped me immensely.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Yes. I've got a couple presentations where I wasn't/didn't present, but all my pubs and the assortment of presentations were all first author. Frankly, I need to get better at delegating more, but I came in with zero research background so I felt like I really needed to learn how to do research and move projects from A to Z. Really taking ownership of projects and seeing them all the way through was how I felt I could best accomplish this, and I found mentors who agreed and helped me immensely.

Inspiring.
So starting from 0, how did you start?

 

[operaman]

Inspiring.
So starting from 0, how did you start?

Cold called a mentor working in an area that interested me and made an appointment to talk. Talked about my background and my future goals, said I wanted to learn as much as possible and asked if there were any projects I could get involved with and really take some ownership of. There was one project that nobody else had really jumped at yet, so I jumped on it and started turning things around quickly. I asked a lot of questions and made a lot of mistakes, but pressed on and worked hard and eventually turned out some quality work. The first paper was definitely the hardest one! (much like learning your first second language)

Once you start to show you'll get work done, people will start offering you more opportunities. I don't think I've met someone in academic medicine who wouldn't love to have a hard working, motivated student churning out papers for them! Most people in academics really like mentoring students too. With each project, I tried to get things done as well and as fast as I could while still maintaining grades/boards (always the most important thing, however sad that may be). Taking initiative is huge: if someone mentions a project, turn around something within 48 hours that shows genuine progress (lit review/IRB protocol ready for editing, build a database, etc.). For the first manuscript, I just tried to write something. Anything. I knew it would be bad, but it's easier to start working with something that's actually written. Even now, just getting something on paper, even if it's not great, is huge. I've learned a ton through the editing process and continue to improve my writing with each new project.

Sorry that's kind of jumbled, but basically: find mentor. Find project. Turn around something tangible ASAP. Repeat. I've had incredible success with cold calls/emails. I'll share my secret for cold calls that you can use to get anyone on the phone no matter how high up they are. This works for C-level corporate officers, academic leaders -- anyone who is a powerful high-achieving person. It's this: call their office number early. 7:00am-7:30 seems to be a sweet spot, though earlier has worked too. Most bigtime PIs, chairmen, CEOs, etc., get to their offices early before anyone else does, especially their assistants who screen their calls, and they are usually fresh and not stressed out yet. Be professional, concise, and willing to take 'no' for an answer, but I've almost always had success with this. Emails can get ignored, but a (brief) call can get things done.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Cold called a mentor working in an area that interested me and made an appointment to talk. Talked about my background and my future goals, said I wanted to learn as much as possible and asked if there were any projects I could get involved with and really take some ownership of. There was one project that nobody else had really jumped at yet, so I jumped on it and started turning things around quickly. I asked a lot of questions and made a lot of mistakes, but pressed on and worked hard and eventually turned out some quality work. The first paper was definitely the hardest one! (much like learning your first second language)

Once you start to show you'll get work done, people will start offering you more opportunities. I don't think I've met someone in academic medicine who wouldn't love to have a hard working, motivated student churning out papers for them! Most people in academics really like mentoring students too. With each project, I tried to get things done as well and as fast as I could while still maintaining grades/boards (always the most important thing, however sad that may be). Taking initiative is huge: if someone mentions a project, turn around something within 48 hours that shows genuine progress (lit review/IRB protocol ready for editing, build a database, etc.). For the first manuscript, I just tried to write something. Anything. I knew it would be bad, but it's easier to start working with something that's actually written. Even now, just getting something on paper, even if it's not great, is huge. I've learned a ton through the editing process and continue to improve my writing with each new project.

Sorry that's kind of jumbled, but basically: find mentor. Find project. Turn around something tangible ASAP. Repeat. I've had incredible success with cold calls/emails. I'll share my secret for cold calls that you can use to get anyone on the phone no matter how high up they are. This works for C-level corporate officers, academic leaders -- anyone who is a powerful high-achieving person. It's this: call their office number early. 7:00am-7:30 seems to be a sweet spot, though earlier has worked too. Most bigtime PIs, chairmen, CEOs, etc., get to their offices early before anyone else does, especially their assistants who screen their calls, and they are usually fresh and not stressed out yet. Be professional, concise, and willing to take 'no' for an answer, but I've almost always had success with this. Emails can get ignored, but a (brief) call can get things done.

Thank you for this, incredibly helpful. Are there any "pre-reqs" so to speak that you think would help once contact has been made and you have a project on your plate. Ex. a book on biostats? research methodology? etc? If it sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because I don't. But I've got to start somewhere.

 

[operaman]

Thank you for this, incredibly helpful. Are there any "pre-reqs" so to speak that you think would help once contact has been made and you have a project on your plate. Ex. a book on biostats? research methodology? etc? If it sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because I don't. But I've got to start somewhere.

I did a lot of googling. Khan academy has great stats videos for free. There was a great book on manuscript writing that I can't remember but will try to find and post the title. Methods are something I'm still working on and learning as I go. The other day an jnterviewer asked why I didn't use a particular design in one of my projects and all I could say was I wish I'd thought to do it that way because it would have made it much stronger. Live and learn! I think I'll probably do a masters at some point to pick up some of the skills I lack so I can start doing higher level work, but that will probably be after residency.

Overall, science is a very social, tribal art form that's learned as an apprenticed craft. Good mentors are far and away the most important piece of the puzzle.

 

[dgu334]

I did a lot of googling. Khan academy has great stats videos for free. There was a great book on manuscript writing that I can't remember but will try to find and post the title. Methods are something I'm still working on and learning as I go. The other day an jnterviewer asked why I didn't use a particular design in one of my projects and all I could say was I wish I'd thought to do it that way because it would have made it much stronger. Live and learn! I think I'll probably do a masters at some point to pick up some of the skills I lack so I can start doing higher level work, but that will probably be after residency.

Overall, science is a very social, tribal art form that's learned as an apprenticed craft. Good mentors are far and away the most important piece of the puzzle.

They ask you THAT detailed questions about your publications?? Do you know if that's only because you're first author? I'm co-author for several papers but I can only explain the specifics of what I contributed and wouldn't be able to comment on why we chose a specific way of collecting data/etc..

 

[Wordead]

They ask you THAT detailed questions about your publications?? Do you know if that's only because you're first author? I'm co-author for several papers but I can only explain the specifics of what I contributed and wouldn't be able to comment on why we chose a specific way of collecting data/etc..

They can ask you anything and everything about your publications. I was asked to walk the interviewers through an entire production process, step by step, and why we used X histological stain vs Y histological stain.

 

[operaman]

They ask you THAT detailed questions about your publications?? Do you know if that's only because you're first author? I'm co-author for several papers but I can only explain the specifics of what I contributed and wouldn't be able to comment on why we chose a specific way of collecting data/etc..

Oh yeah, most definitely. I never felt anyone was trying to trip me up, but I think people, especially at academic programs, genuinely like this stuff and are interested in your work. Someone who does very similar work would probably want to ask very detailed questions and be interested in why you chose X stain vs Y stain, etc. You may not know the answer to everything, but it's definitely a good idea to know all your research really well so you can talk about the project as a whole. Going by the authorship standards for most journals I've seen, anyone listed as an author should be able to talk about pretty much any aspect of the project.

 

[cs24]

Cold called a mentor working in an area that interested me and made an appointment to talk. Talked about my background and my future goals, said I wanted to learn as much as possible and asked if there were any projects I could get involved with and really take some ownership of. There was one project that nobody else had really jumped at yet, so I jumped on it and started turning things around quickly. I asked a lot of questions and made a lot of mistakes, but pressed on and worked hard and eventually turned out some quality work. The first paper was definitely the hardest one! (much like learning your first second language)

Once you start to show you'll get work done, people will start offering you more opportunities. I don't think I've met someone in academic medicine who wouldn't love to have a hard working, motivated student churning out papers for them! Most people in academics really like mentoring students too. With each project, I tried to get things done as well and as fast as I could while still maintaining grades/boards (always the most important thing, however sad that may be). Taking initiative is huge: if someone mentions a project, turn around something within 48 hours that shows genuine progress (lit review/IRB protocol ready for editing, build a database, etc.). For the first manuscript, I just tried to write something. Anything. I knew it would be bad, but it's easier to start working with something that's actually written. Even now, just getting something on paper, even if it's not great, is huge. I've learned a ton through the editing process and continue to improve my writing with each new project.

This is all great advice. I started med school with no publications as well (although I did have one nth author in the works) and just cold-emailed mentors until I set up meetings with a few PIs. I had never done clinical research before, and had only taken one biostats class in undergrad (for the person asking about a good stats book above- I always recommend Intuitive Biostatistics by Harvey Motulsky), but I was enthusiastic, found a great mentor, and worked hard. I muddled my way through some basic statistics and found some trends. We sent the data to the statisticians, and when the results were finished I wrote up a paper as best I could. No direction, no book on how to write a manuscript, no previous experience. I read other papers on similar topics in high impact journals to try to get a handle on the style and just went for it. The initial drafts were terrible, but with a responsive PI and a lot of editing a decent paper came out of it. The first one is always the hardest, and I'm now finishing up two more, also first authors.

As operaman and others have alluded to, the two biggest keys to success are 1) you and 2) your mentor. Being a helpful, hardworking, productive student is all you need to provide. You will get out of a research experience what you put into it. No PI, no matter how great, wants to pour a lot of time and effort into a lazy student. Once you show that you work hard and are dedicated to your work, the responsibilities and opportunities will start to flow in. If you are a great student, a great mentor will give you plenty of projects to work on and the autonomy to have ownership.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Great info here. Looking for more info on what options other than publications are there to put on residency apps underneath research category. I believe poster presentations and case reviews were mentioned? How are these different than writing up a paper for a publication? It seems clinical research generally involves a lot of time investment in compiling databases from clinical data and then writing a paper. Am I correct?

 

[Dr Dazzle]

You correctly note that original publications take a lot more time and work than posters or case reports. This is precisely why residency programs value them so much more. They require much more work, and undergo much more vigorous peer review.

Presentations at national meetings are definitely good don't get me wrong.

But it is publication >>> other

But don't poster presentations occur after the process of publication? Or is that not a necessity for a presentation?
Also, I'm trying to gauge how long a typical clinical research project takes. I'm sure it's variable, but how many publications can a clinical research student expect to produce over a 2 month summer?

 

[MedWonk]

So, I guess IM at UCSF or Stanford is out of the question without pubs?

 

[dgu334]

This is kind of a side question but I am currently involved in clinical research during medical school. I am involved in absolutely zero interest groups, community service groups, leadership stuff, etc mainly because I want to use up the time I have for research. Will residency directors be ok with this? I know that basically everyone applying to residency have a list of their extracurriculars so idk if they will put a red flag on my app. Personally, I think all of these ECs and clubs are fluff

 

[Pacna]

Cold called a mentor working in an area that interested me and made an appointment to talk. Talked about my background and my future goals, said I wanted to learn as much as possible and asked if there were any projects I could get involved with and really take some ownership of. There was one project that nobody else had really jumped at yet, so I jumped on it and started turning things around quickly. I asked a lot of questions and made a lot of mistakes, but pressed on and worked hard and eventually turned out some quality work. The first paper was definitely the hardest one! (much like learning your first second language)

Once you start to show you'll get work done, people will start offering you more opportunities. I don't think I've met someone in academic medicine who wouldn't love to have a hard working, motivated student churning out papers for them! Most people in academics really like mentoring students too. With each project, I tried to get things done as well and as fast as I could while still maintaining grades/boards (always the most important thing, however sad that may be). Taking initiative is huge: if someone mentions a project, turn around something within 48 hours that shows genuine progress (lit review/IRB protocol ready for editing, build a database, etc.). For the first manuscript, I just tried to write something. Anything. I knew it would be bad, but it's easier to start working with something that's actually written. Even now, just getting something on paper, even if it's not great, is huge. I've learned a ton through the editing process and continue to improve my writing with each new project.

Sorry that's kind of jumbled, but basically: find mentor. Find project. Turn around something tangible ASAP. Repeat. I've had incredible success with cold calls/emails. I'll share my secret for cold calls that you can use to get anyone on the phone no matter how high up they are. This works for C-level corporate officers, academic leaders -- anyone who is a powerful high-achieving person. It's this: call their office number early. 7:00am-7:30 seems to be a sweet spot, though earlier has worked too. Most bigtime PIs, chairmen, CEOs, etc., get to their offices early before anyone else does, especially their assistants who screen their calls, and they are usually fresh and not stressed out yet. Be professional, concise, and willing to take 'no' for an answer, but I've almost always had success with this. Emails can get ignored, but a (brief) call can get things done.

Well this got me off my butt.

 

[operaman]

This is kind of a side question but I am currently involved in clinical research during medical school. I am involved in absolutely zero interest groups, community service groups, leadership stuff, etc mainly because I want to use up the time I have for research. Will residency directors be ok with this? I know that basically everyone applying to residency have a list of their extracurriculars so idk if they will put a red flag on my app. Personally, I think all of these ECs and clubs are fluff

There was a big thread on this recently you may be able to find. I think the general consensus was this:

1) ECs and other fluff are not going the HELP your application very much by their presence

2) A total lack of ECs could possibly stand out in a negative way


If I were you, I would add a little fluff just for the sake of adding some volume to your CV. We all have gut reactions to a CV, and if yours is only 3 pages long while your competition's are more like 7-8 pages long, then that's probably not helping. Granted, if your research is incredibly productive and your 3 pages includes a ton of first author pubs, presentations, fellowships like HHMI, etc., then that's a different story. I should say, however, that the student CVs I've seen with those level of credentials tend to have a lot of other stuff too. The traits that make someone a star in one area tend to make them stand out in other areas too.

So don't go overboard, but a little bit of fluffing never hurt anyone.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

a little bit of fluffing never hurt anyone.

 

[Wordead]

So, I guess IM at UCSF or Stanford is out of the question without pubs?

I have a classmate who interviewed at both places for IM without pubs.

But she was AOA, 255+ Step 1+2, great 3rd year grades, etc etc.

 

[MedWonk]

I have a classmate who interviewed at both places for IM without pubs.

But she was AOA, 255+ Step 1+2, great 3rd year grades, etc etc.

 

[dgu334]

There was a big thread on this recently you may be able to find. I think the general consensus was this:

1) ECs and other fluff are not going the HELP your application very much by their presence

2) A total lack of ECs could possibly stand out in a negative way


If I were you, I would add a little fluff just for the sake of adding some volume to your CV. We all have gut reactions to a CV, and if yours is only 3 pages long while your competition's are more like 7-8 pages long, then that's probably not helping. Granted, if your research is incredibly productive and your 3 pages includes a ton of first author pubs, presentations, fellowships like HHMI, etc., then that's a different story. I should say, however, that the student CVs I've seen with those level of credentials tend to have a lot of other stuff too. The traits that make someone a star in one area tend to make them stand out in other areas too.

So don't go overboard, but a little bit of fluffing never hurt anyone.

The problem is, I am so heavily involved in research that I don't have the time or energy to commit to these fluff organizations. I've already had my name on two published papers and there are more coming. I do have leisure time but I'd much rather spend that time chilling rather than volunteering or attending meetings for resume boosting clubs..

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

The problem is, I am so heavily involved in research that I don't have the time or energy to commit to these fluff organizations. I've already had my name on two published papers and there are more coming. I do have leisure time but I'd much rather spend that time chilling rather than volunteering or attending meetings for resume boosting clubs..

At my school you can do stuff like help at the local soup kitchen, it takes 45m and you can do it once a month. Over 4 years, it shows a commitment to help the less fortunate and adds up to a pretty decent EC. Just squeeze one thing in and commit to it. That's my plan anyway. (1 or 2 things).

 

[operaman]

The problem is, I am so heavily involved in research that I don't have the time or energy to commit to these fluff organizations. I've already had my name on two published papers and there are more coming. I do have leisure time but I'd much rather spend that time chilling rather than volunteering or attending meetings for resume boosting clubs..

If you already know or have an idea of the field you play to pursue, I would consider setting up an appointment with your home program director or some other mentor in the department who reviews applications each year. Depending on the level and volume of work you're doing, you may be just fine, but I would double check the plan with someone in the know who also knows you.

I agree with the above that you can add in a handful of ECs with a minimal impact on your overall free time, thus covering all your bases.

 

[Lysinee]

Try to pick a PI who has a record of working with students and starting new projects. You can look at the Pi's recent projects. Meet with a few PIs and pick the person who presents the best opportunity for you.

I started meeting with the PI in Feb and we designed a new project and did all of the HIPAA and IRB stuff. I started working on the database during the summer and it was completed before M2.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Hi, everyone. I am but a lowly premed who recently got accepted to medical school. I also have no research experience. I wanted to ask what I can do during the time from now until medical school starts in August to prepare myself for jumping into clinical research. The specialties I am considering are all competitive, and I know that doing some research in your desired field is becoming a de facto requirement. I have read thru this thread, and I would appreciate any other advice.