Puerto Rican MD Schools vs DO schools

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JaneD

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Hi all.

I am posting this in both pre-Allopathic and pre-Osteopathic subforums, I hope that doing so is ok. Just searching for opinions. I have some questions about DO schools and Puerto Rican MD schools (US MD schools, with LCME accriditation ). I am aware of their eligibility requirements so that is not an issue. I am just wondering how these programs compare.


US MD Schools in Puerto Rico
San Juan Bautista
Universidad central del caribe

DO schools
ACOM
MU-COM
Touro Nevada
Touro NY
LECOM -Erie/Seton Hill
Touro CA
SOMA

Would an MD from PR put me at an advantage over a DO from these schools as far as matching to residencies is concerned? Are matchlists available online? How would SJB's probation affect matching?

Are these schools considered about the same as far as quality of education is concerned? I know ACOM and MU-COM are new, but I heard that their staff is experienced and saw that some SDN'ers were impressed by their interview experience. Plus I read that MU has great support from hospitals and doctors in the area.

These are the two criteria I am weighing:

- Residency matching (when possible)
- Quality of education

What would be your top 3 ranked choices based on the list?

Thank you for reading
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JaneD said:
Hi all.

I am posting this in both pre-Allopathic and pre-Osteopathic subforums, I hope that doing so is ok. Just searching for opinions. I have some questions about DO schools and Puerto Rican MD schools (US MD schools, with LCME accriditation ). I am aware of their eligibility requirements so that is not an issue. I am just wondering how these programs compare.


US MD Schools in Puerto Rico
San Juan Bautista
Universidad central del caribe

DO schools
ACOM
MU-COM
Touro Nevada
Touro NY
LECOM -Erie/Seton Hill
Touro CA
SOMA

Would an MD from PR put me at an advantage over a DO from these schools as far as matching to residencies is concerned? Are matchlists available online? How would SJB's probation affect matching?

Are these schools considered about the same as far as quality of education is concerned? I know ACOM and MU-COM are new, but I heard that their staff is experienced and saw that some SDN'ers were impressed by their interview experience. Plus I read that MU has great support from hospitals and doctors in the area.

These are the two criteria I am weighing:

- Residency matching (when possible)
- Quality of education

What would be your top 3 ranked choices based on the list?

Thank you for reading
Click to expand...

This has been discussed to death, use search. Also, cross-posting is against the TOS, so in before the lock.
 
Actually never read anything about PR MD vs DO. I believe PR MD grads are not considered IMG's, is that correct?
 
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From what I have read, and you could easily read too if you search around these forums, is that the D.O. degree will provide you with a far better opportunity to match into a residency position than a foreign medical school, especially when talking about a Carribean school. From what I gather in the coming years this trend will become even more true as the merger between D.O. and M.D.s becomes stronger.

Easy chart to explain this:

M.D. = D.O. >>>>>>>>>>>> Carribean/Foreign Schools
 
^ PR schools are LCME accredited and graduates are considered USMGs.

OP needs to try a search bar and reading the terms of service though.
 
PR medical schools are not considered international schools - they are LCME accredited and are included in AMCAS.

As suggested, I did search before posting. However, I found one thread on the subject and it did not compare the specific schools that I am asking about. If anyone can help me compare these specific schools it would be much appreciated.
 
I don't know if many people would be able to compare those schools. Your best bet is to go into the Allopathic School Specific section and find the threads for the PR schools. Match lists might be found there along with other useful info. Most people who go to PR schools probably don't apply to random DO schools like LECOM or Marian so I doubt many people will be able to give a good comparison between these schools.

The PR schools will give you as good an education (if not better) than the DO schools listed. The choice is probably more down to personal issues. The residency you match is up to your efforts, not the name of your school. The limitations of the DO degree in certain fields has been over-publicized on this site, quickly search "DO disadvantages" or anything like that if you really want to wade through that drivel. I would imagine PR grads are treated like any other average MD graduate.
 
as1212559 said:
^ PR schools are LCME accredited and graduates are considered USMGs.

OP needs to try a search bar and reading the terms of service though.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Thanks for that info.

I suppose that makes the PR schools better than Carib in terms of ability to match for residency.
 
I think you should go PR (they aren't considered foreign), well unless you don't actually physically want to be there.
 
I would imagine that PR schools would provide you with more post-graduate opportunities than DO schools because PR schools are LCME accredited, but that is pure speculation.
 
Strictly as a general rule, I would say that a US MD school would give you less disadvantages when it comes to matching. That being said, your success matching wherever you want is much more dependent on yourself, so if you think you will do just as well and be just as happy at a PR school as you would at a DO school, then you should pick the PR school. Do they require Spanish speaking applicants? I can't remember. I of course have no idea what the match lists or board passing rates for the PR schools are like, so this may sway things from one side to another.

as1212559 said:
I don't know if many people would be able to compare those schools. Your best bet is to go into the Allopathic School Specific section and find the threads for the PR schools. Match lists might be found there along with other useful info. Most people who go to PR schools probably don't apply to random DO schools like LECOM or Marian so I doubt many people will be able to give a good comparison between these schools.

The PR schools will give you as good an education (if not better) than the DO schools listed. The choice is probably more down to personal issues. The residency you match is up to your efforts, not the name of your school. The limitations of the DO degree in certain fields has been over-publicized on this site, quickly search "DO disadvantages" or anything like that if you really want to wade through that drivel. I would imagine PR grads are treated like any other average MD graduate.
Click to expand...

Agree with most of that, but what's with calling LECOM "random". Marian is new, so I get that, but LECOM has been around since 1992, already has 3 campuses, is one of the biggest DO institutions in the country in terms of graduates, has very impressive board pass rates and seems to match as well as most other DO programs. I'm not saying it doesn't have its issues, but its not like its really a random choice for a DO applicant.
 
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My personal hunch is that going to a LCME accredited med school in PR will not substantially benefit you even though it gives you the MD initials. I say that because a bigger factor is name recognition and PDs comfort level with the quality of a program. I don't think a PR school really has either going for it putting the difference in choice mostly insignificant.

EDIT: I don't think you have a bad choice though either way. Just avoid being an IMG.
 
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I have some classmates that are now at a DO school after doing thier first year at SJB. In case you didn't know they lost their LCME accreditation after being on probation but after a lengthy appeal the loss of accreditation was put on hold. I would avoid that school with a 15 foot pole.

While PR med school students are USMD students many of the PR schools' mission is to provide physicians for PR. They would be likely take a students likelihood to stay on the island into account for admission.
 
Oo Cipher oO said:
I have some classmates that are now at a DO school after doing thier first year at SJB. In case you didn't know they lost their LCME accreditation after being on probation but after a lengthy appeal the loss of accreditation was put on hold. I would avoid that school with a 15 foot pole.
Click to expand...

That's pretty alarming, and raises a lot of questions about whether its risky to attend SJB. Losing LCME accreditation is shockingly rare.

Oo Cipher oO said:
While PR med school students are USMD students many of the PR schools' mission is to provide physicians for PR. They would be likely take a students likelihood to stay on the island into account for admission.
Click to expand...

This is definitely true.
 
hallowmann said:
Agree with most of that, but what's with calling LECOM "random". Marian is new, so I get that, but LECOM has been around since 1992, already has 3 campuses, is one of the biggest DO institutions in the country in terms of graduates, has very impressive board pass rates and seems to match as well as most other DO programs. I'm not saying it doesn't have its issues, but its not like its really a random choice for a DO applicant.
Click to expand...

I meant more geographically. Erie, PA is not a single thing like Puerto Rico and I find it weird this would the OPs schools list.
 
Reposted from the other thread:

I think the real question here is... why?
Are you interested in osteopathic medicine over allopathic? If so, why are you considering the PR schools?
Are you from Puerto Rico? It doesn't seem to me that the Puerto Rican schools are easier to get into than the average US MD school, unless you're local maybe.

Why are you comparing these two groups and not looking at mainland MD schools? The answer to that question may help people understand where you're coming from and answer your questions.
 
ya . . . I'd avoid PR if I were you.

Here is the LCME announcement:
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT, October, 3, 2011
LCME Withdraws Accreditation from the San Juan Bautista School of Medicine
Effective October 3, 2011, the LCME has withdrawn accreditation from the educational program leading to the MD degree at the San Juan Bautista School of Medicine. This decision was based primarily on the LCME's assessment of inadequate clinical resources. This decision is final. The notification letter sent to the program informed it of its right to provide official comment to the U.S. Department of Education and to the LCME. If the program chooses to exercise this option, copies of the comments will be made available to the public by request. A copy of the letter notifying the program of this decision is available here
 
Oo Cipher oO said:
I have some classmates that are now at a DO school after doing thier first year at SJB. In case you didn't know they lost their LCME accreditation after being on probation but after a lengthy appeal the loss of accreditation was put on hold. I would avoid that school with a 15 foot pole.[b/]

While PR med school students are USMD students many of the PR schools' mission is to provide physicians for PR. They would be likely take a students likelihood to stay on the island into account for admission.
Click to expand...


Well, since SJB is 1000 miles from the nearest part of the us mainland, I don't think the pole is necessary.
 
DrNoo said:
PR schools are legit LCME-accreditated MD schools. but i hear their courses are taught in spanish--can someone confirm this? and almost all patients at the rotations speak spanish.
the experience is going to be very different from attending a US school. however, if premeds are given the opportunity to choose between a PR school and a DO school, i think more than half of them would pick PR just to get an MD title.:naughty:
Click to expand...

I was tempted to apply to PR schools because I'm fluent in Spanish and am sort of a Hispanophile... but I didn't think my wife would appreciate moving for four years to an island thousands of miles from any family where they speak a language in which she is barely conversant.

As far as residency opportunities, I'm sure many doors would be wide open to you in places like Florida and NYC where many Puerto Ricans live and have presumably been home to many PR applicants.

On a related note, in all my years scouring the Interwebz I've never been able to find any DO's practicing in Puerto Rico... I wonder if I could get licensed to practice there once I'm through school and done with residency.
 
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NurWollen said:
I was tempted to apply to PR schools because I'm fluent in Spanish and am sort of a Hispanophile... but I didn't think my wife would appreciate moving for four years to an island thousands of miles from any family where they speak a language in which she is barely conversant.

As far as residency opportunities, I'm sure many doors would be wide open to you in places like Florida and NYC where many Puerto Ricans live and have presumably been home to many PR applicants.

On a related note, in all my years scouring the Interwebz I've never been able to find any DO's practicing in Puerto Rico... I wonder if I could get licensed to practice there once I'm through school and done with residency.
Click to expand...

I doubt you'd have issues working as a DO in PR, because I imagine they would have the same medical regulations as the US.
 
DrNoo said:
i think it looks better than a DO school with similar matriculant stats (22 mcat). some of the programs are hard for DO's to get into. so there is a benefit for going to PR? i'm surprised that most of them matched into mainland.
Click to expand...

There are definitely some very strong programs on there, better then a lot of DO schools. Only reason I said it was on par was that very few seem to be going into specialties like Ortho or GenSurg.

If I was fluent in Spanish I would definitely be applying to PR med schools.
 
I'm always amazed how much pre-meds know about residency programs. They must have gotten a tingly feeling during their rotation there, or better yet what they read on google.

DO > Non US mainland MD.
 
Mehd School said:
I'm always amazed how much pre-meds know about residency programs. They must have gotten a tingly feeling during their rotation there, or better yet what they read on google.

DO > Non US mainland MD.
Click to expand...

The issue is that puerto rican schools are LCME accredited, so they are not like any other offshore school.
 
Mehd School said:
I'm always amazed how much pre-meds know about residency programs. They must have gotten a tingly feeling during their rotation there, or better yet what they read on google.

DO > Non US mainland MD.
Click to expand...

Calm down with the condescension, you're a fellow pre-med get off your high horse.

I really don't see why PR med is viewed any differently then a lower tier american MD program like Meharry or Southern illinois.
 
Mehd School said:
I'm always amazed how much pre-meds know about residency programs. They must have gotten a tingly feeling during their rotation there, or better yet what they read on google.

DO > Non US mainland MD.
Click to expand...

PR schools are LCME acredited and offer great education. SJB is the only one I'd look at with caution. If the applicant has direct links with PR, he can enter UPR.

UPR graduates constantly get match in residency programs in the US mainland.
 
cliquesh said:
The issue is that puerto rican schools are LCME accredited, so they are not like any other offshore school.
Click to expand...
I guess you are right. The one having a probation period in its accreditation is a big enough red flag for me to take note. Have any US MD or DO schools have been under a probationary period lately?

Dr Turkelton said:
Calm down with the condescension, you're a fellow pre-med get off your high horse.

I really don't see why PR med is viewed any differently then a lower tier american MD program like Meharry or Southern illinois.
Click to expand...

Condescending, yes. Fellow pre-ed, yes. But I'm not the one weighing the quality of post graduate training institutions that I've never been to let alone know anything about. :laugh:

DrOne said:
PR schools are LCME acredited and offer great education. SJB is the only one I'd look at with caution. If the applicant has direct links with PR, he can enter UPR.

UPR graduates constantly get match in residency programs in the US mainland.
Click to expand...

I never said they didn't offer great education. What are the average entering stats? Attrition rates? Step scores? These are things that would worry me. They can constantly match, but what percentage of their starting class are we talking? I think these numbers are obviously kind of difficult to get ahold of.
 
If you want to do your education in Spanish, so that you can be medically fluent in Spanish, go to PR. If you are looking for MD letters, maybe go to PR, if you are looking for substantial opportunities with low grades, go to DO...
 
I never said they didn't offer great education. What are the average entering stats? Attrition rates? Step scores? These are things that would worry me. They can constantly match, but what percentage of their starting class are we talking? I think these numbers are obviously kind of difficult to get ahold of.
Click to expand...

There are 4 medical schools in PR, UPR is the upper tier and only accepts locals or people with very close ties to the island. It's acceptance stats are 3.8 cGPA, 3.8 sGPA and 25 MCAT average (this comes from the 2014 MSAR). While the MCAT is in the low end for US med schools and we can discuss why it is that the average MCAT here is lower, the reality is that it is not an easy school to get into. A while back I read that the graduation rate for this med school was about 95 or 96%, I'll check if I can get a hold of the document. Speaking of the other three is somewhat different.

All of the other three: SJB, UCC and Ponce have lower MCAT average (about 22) and lower GPA (between 3.5 and 3.7). Like I said I would not look at SJB at this momment, but to base your argument about PR med schools on a single school is quite unfair. Let's say NYU loses it's accreditation, does that affect Columbia in any way?

I don't think I can get a hold of accurate USMLE scores or matching stats of PR med schools. But I can honestly say that an LCME accredited school is a US school and has to be seen as such, be it in NY, Texas, California or Puerto Rico.
 
Mehd School said:
I guess you are right. The one having a probation period in its accreditation is a big enough red flag for me to take note. Have any US MD or DO schools have been under a probationary period lately?

...

I never said they didn't offer great education. What are the average entering stats? Attrition rates? Step scores? These are things that would worry me. They can constantly match, but what percentage of their starting class are we talking? I think these numbers are obviously kind of difficult to get ahold of.
Click to expand...

Actually, recently the LCME put a slew of MD institutions on probation. Many came off of probation though, including Marshall and TCMC. It is very rare though for an institution to lose accreditation, even temporarily. That is more alarming.

The PR schools are very similar in those sort of stats as lower-mid tier MD schools and most DO programs. Attrition and passing rates are similar. They really are more like US MD programs as opposed to off-shore/Caribbean schools. SJB though seems to have some major issues.
 
NurWollen said:
Well, since SJB is 1000 miles from the nearest part of the us mainland, I don't think the pole is necessary.
Click to expand...

Better check yourself, pre-med. Obviously the 15 foot pole would be used to paddle back to the mainland, duh! Work on those critical thinking skills or medical school will eat you alive. God help us if you actually get a medical license. :scared:

not srs
 
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Oo Cipher oO said:
Better check yourself, pre-med. Obviously the 15 foot pole would be used to paddle back to the mainland, duh! Work on those critical thinking skills or medical school will eat you alive. God help us if you actually get a medical license. :scared:

not srs
Click to expand...

🙂

FWIW, I seem to remember that one of the big problems with SJB was that their hospital was on the verge of closing. Obviously there were other issues as well. They signed a deal with one of the island's major private hospital systems as part of their preparation for getting reevaluated by the LCME. They got their accreditation back, albeit on probation. I definitely understand the hesitation to apply there, though.
 
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pathologyDO said:
From what I have read, and you could easily read too if you search around these forums, is that the D.O. degree will provide you with a far better opportunity to match into a residency position than a foreign medical school, especially when talking about a Carribean school. From what I gather in the coming years this trend will become even more true as the merger between D.O. and M.D.s becomes stronger.

Easy chart to explain this:

M.D. = D.O. >>>>>>>>>>>> Carribean/Foreign Schools
Click to expand...

Thank you for your sharing that chart. I imagine that took some time to put together!
 
zmansman17 said:
Thank you for your sharing that chart. I imagine that took some time to put together!
Click to expand...

Rembember, Puerto Rican schools are not Caribbean schools, despite the fact that one of them is named Universidad Central del Caribe. They are LCME schools and in that sense are every bit as accredited as Harvard or JHU... they may not be as well known to program directors or anyone else in certain regions of the US... but that is true of many places. I mean, how many PDs in California have experience taking students from NEOMED in Ohio?
 
00449dd12c998a921881c6d0fb9d9dea.gif
 
NurWollen said:
Rembember, Puerto Rican schools are not Caribbean schools, despite the fact that one of them is named Universidad Central del Caribe. They are LCME schools and in that sense are every bit as accredited as Harvard or JHU... they may not be as well known to program directors or anyone else in certain regions of the US... but that is true of many places. I mean, how many PDs in California have experience taking students from NEOMED in Ohio?
Click to expand...

I don't understand how people don't realize this. Its like the same argument over and over again.

Pre-Med 1: "What do you think of PR schools?"
Pre-Med 2: "I wouldn't go to a PR school. DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
Pre-Med 1: "OK... but PR schools aren't Caribbean/foreign med schools, they are LCME accredited schools, making them in the same category of US MD programs not foreign programs."
...
Pre-Med 3: "Yeah, but DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
 
hallowmann said:
I don't understand how people don't realize this. Its like the same argument over and over again.

Pre-Med 1: "What do you think of PR schools?"
Pre-Med 2: "I wouldn't go to a PR school. DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
Pre-Med 1: "OK... but PR schools aren't Caribbean/foreign med schools, they are LCME accredited schools, making them in the same category of US MD programs not foreign programs."
...
Pre-Med 3: "Yeah, but DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
Click to expand...

Lol... exactly.
 
hallowmann said:
I don't understand how people don't realize this. Its like the same argument over and over again.

Pre-Med 1: "What do you think of PR schools?"
Pre-Med 2: "I wouldn't go to a PR school. DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
Pre-Med 1: "OK... but PR schools aren't Caribbean/foreign med schools, they are LCME accredited schools, making them in the same category of US MD programs not foreign programs."
...
Pre-Med 3: "Yeah, but DO schools are wayyy better for matching than Caribbean/foreign schools."
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
pathologyDO said:
From what I have read, and you could easily read too if you search around these forums, is that the D.O. degree will provide you with a far better opportunity to match into a residency position than a foreign medical school, especially when talking about a Carribean school. From what I gather in the coming years this trend will become even more true as the merger between D.O. and M.D.s becomes stronger.

Easy chart to explain this:

M.D. = D.O. >>>>>>>>>>>> Carribean/Foreign Schools
Click to expand...

Love when premeds try to drop some knowledge and fail.
 
As was said before, PR = US for LCME purposes. Your real consideration should be where you do your rotations that may lead to residency. If the DO program gives you access to rotations in programs you like, go for that. Depending on the school in PR it can be very time consuming to set up rotations in the US.
 
Mehd School said:
I'm always amazed how much pre-meds know about residency programs. They must have gotten a tingly feeling during their rotation there, or better yet what they read on google.

DO > Non US mainland MD.
Click to expand...

Being from Hawaii and knowing people who gotten into a Harvard residency (one in derm) from my state school, totally not true.
 
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