Pulm CC sleep

[Dryacku]

Is a sleep fellowship really needed esp since many institutions dont offer a sleep fellowship? Can you be well enough trained to practice sleep without a fellowship? I know in the past they didnt even have fellowships?

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[madcadaver]

Is a sleep fellowship really needed esp since many institutions dont offer a sleep fellowship? Can you be well enough trained to practice sleep without a fellowship? I know in the past they didnt even have fellowships?

You can't get board certified as of 2007 without doing a sleep fellowship unless you have been out of fellowship and practicing sleep medicine for a set amount of time (I believe it is the equivalent of 1 yr, i.e. 25% of your practice for 4 years). You could still practice sleep medicine as part of a pulm practice but you won't be able to bill at the same level as someone who is boarded.

 

[Dryacku]

So my next question... is it fiancelly worth it??? considering you are already putting in six years.... I know the great thing about sleep is you can bill (esp if you have ur own clinic) while you are sleeping... but is the extra year on top of the six worth it???

thanks

You can't get board certified as of 2007 without doing a sleep fellowship unless you have been out of fellowship and practicing sleep medicine for a set amount of time (I believe it is the equivalent of 1 yr, i.e. 25% of your practice for 4 years). You could still practice sleep medicine as part of a pulm practice but you won't be able to bill at the same level as someone who is boarded.

 

[gwen]

can you do a sleep fellowship straight out of IM residency or do you HAVE to do pulmo or neuro first?

 

[spyrogyra1]

surprisingly you can get into a sleep fellowship with IM,psyche,FM,Neurology and ENT.
I think as a sleep doc you make as much money as a PCCM guy-and the timings are way better.
The marketibility is suspect though.

 

[novacek88]

surprisingly you can get into a sleep fellowship with IM,psyche,FM,Neurology and ENT.
I think as a sleep doc you make as much money as a PCCM guy-and the timings are way better.
The marketibility is suspect though.

Your last line should be emphasized. Yes, technically you could become boarded in Sleep as an FM, IM or Psych but you will be at a huge disadvantage from a marketing standpoint and you won't earn the income typically associated with PCCM guys who did a fellowship in Sleep. I think with ENT, you wouldn't be at such a huge advantage due the crossover in regards to patients both PCCM and ENT see. This concept applies to anything in medicine such an FM who wishes to perform endoscopy on a regular basis. Just because you are able to do something doesn't mean you will attract enough business or the amount of business you sought when applying for the fellowship.

Is it worth it? That depends. Remember, physicians are quick to follow hot trends. By the time a business or procedure is trendy and lucrative, the market will have already been saturated to the point that it may not be worth pursuing that fellowship if your purpose is to simply earn more money. This is particularly true in large metropolitan areas where the competition could already be stiff by the time you enter the market. The people who gain the most from offering these services were the ones who pioneered the process or were the first to start offerring these procedures. This is obviously the case with aesthetic medicine. An FM or IM who wishes to practice aesthetic medicine will have a tough time doing so due to the fact that so many physicians offer these services through their practice now but 5-6 years ago (before Extreme Makeover debuted), you could have made a killing offerring these services.

 

[gwen]

i've actually now run into quite a few people who have done sleep medicine after IM alone. they've joined pulm trained sleep doctors and are earning the same salary.

 

[neurologist]

Is a sleep fellowship really needed esp since many institutions dont offer a sleep fellowship? Can you be well enough trained to practice sleep without a fellowship? I know in the past they didnt even have fellowships?

Depends what you mean by "practice sleep." Many general neurologists, for example, evaluate and treat patients with sleep disorders without having done formal sleep fellowships. It's not that difficult: You really don't "need" a fellowship, just some interest in the topic and some experience.

What you DO need a fellowship for nowadays is to get sleep medicine boarded. Why does this matter? Because a) a lot of potential employers seem to want to see the diploma hanging on the wall, and b) in order for a sleep lab to be accredited it has to be run by a sleep-boarded doc, so if you plan to run an accredited lab, the medical director needs to be board certified.

Sleep is still a growing field (increasing obesity = increasing sleep apnea!!!!); I wouldn't worry about it being saturated just yet. There are a limited number of fellowship programs and they are becoming more and more competitive to get into, so there's not tons of sleep fellowship-trainees being churned out.

Income doing sleep med is definitely higher than doing general neurology. But probably the bigger attraction from the practitioner's perspective is lifestyle: you're not going to be getting many 2AM calls from the ER to come and admit patients for "sleep emergencies."

 

[chemamr]

so, what's the average income of pulm cc sleep med doc?