Pulpal Wall...

[drPheta]

Is the pulpal wall the same thing as the pulpal floor?

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[3rdMolarRoller]

pulpal wall...am I missing something 😕

You are talking about a class II...right?

I thought all there was: axial wall, gingival floor, pupal floor, pupal-axial line angle, bucal wall, lingual wall, gingival wall/ seat/floor, and gingival bevel.

 

[drPheta]

That's what I thought, but I'm studying for an exam in Operative and pulpal wall came up. I googled the word and came up with this.

"An enclosing side of a prepared cavity is termed a wall. The wall is named in relation to the tooth surface of which it is formed. There are two internal walls possible, the axial and pulpal walls. The axial wall is the internal wall formed by the surface of the long axis (axial or vertical plane) of the tooth. The pulpal wall is the internal wall in the horizontal plane."

If it's in the horizontal plane...it must be the same thing as the pulpal floor, just another name for it. 😕

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I just did a search in my vitalbook for "Pupal floor" and nothing at all.

Can someone else enlighten us here!

 

[gryffindor]

drPheta googles "pulpal wall" and gets a reasonable explanation.

Brocnizer runs "pulpal wall" through VitalCrap and gets... nothing.

LOL, that's too funny.

I think pulpal wall and pulpal floor mean the same thing.

 

[drPheta]

Originally posted by griffin04
drPheta googles "pulpal wall" and gets a reasonable explanation.

Brocnizer runs "pulpal wall" through VitalCrap and gets... nothing.

LOL, that's too funny.

I think pulpal wall and pulpal floor mean the same thing.

Sweeeeeeeeeet. Google is the best study buddy out there. 😀

Thanks for the confirmation griff.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

In defense of vitalsource (and I know this might cause an uproar but, I like it) a pupal wall search can easily find you the answer. Just make sure you spell pulpal right (no offense intended Broc). The definition can be found in Sturdvant's in Chapter 6.
Pulpal wall = pulpal floor

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by griffin04
drPheta googles "pulpal wall" and gets a reasonable explanation.

Brocnizer runs "pulpal wall" through VitalCrap and gets... nothing.

LOL, that's too funny.

I did too--then I searched MY VitalCrap and I got well over 100 results:

19 alone from Pathways of the Pulp, 61 from Sturdevant's Art and Science of Operative, 8 from Fundamentals of Pediatric Dentistry, 4 from Fundamentals of Prostho., and between 1-3 from ~30 other books.

 

[DrRob]

Gingival Bevel - for class 2 amalgam? We were not taught that at MUSOD. Only for gold inlays - I have never placed a gingival bevel for a class 2 amalgam.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Oops...my vital source was only looking through my anatomy class bec that was the current section I was in. I just did a bookshelf search and got 258 hits.

Its been a long day guys....

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Yeah, we are doing the gingival bevel on amalgam. From what I remember in lecture, it is bec the enamel rods are not supported and would easily break. We do it at 20 degree's

 

[drPheta]

Originally posted by DrRob
Gingival Bevel - for class 2 amalgam? We were not taught that at MUSOD. Only for gold inlays - I have never placed a gingival bevel for a class 2 amalgam.

Yeah, we're taught to put those to eliminate unsupported enamel rods and increase resistance form. They run in a downward/outward direction below the proximal contact area. BTW, what is VitalSource?

 

[endotom]

Folks,

The pulpal wall of a cavity preparation is the side nearest the pulp chamber. It can be the floor of the prep in a Class I or the pulpal side of the box in a Class II prep. The floor of the prep is almost never called the pulpal wall. It mostly refers to the vertcal side of the Class II prep that is next to the pulp.

endotom

 

[cusp of carabelli]

we never did bevels on class II's either. Just used a gingival margin trimmer hand tool to smoothen it out.

Originally posted by Brocnizer2007
Yeah, we are doing the gingival bevel on amalgam. From what I remember in lecture, it is bec the enamel rods are not supported and would easily break. We do it at 20 degree's

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Originally posted by endotom
Folks,

The pulpal wall of a cavity preparation is the side nearest the pulp chamber. It can be the floor of the prep in a Class I or the pulpal side of the box in a Class II prep. The floor of the chamber is almost never called the pulpal wall. It mostly refers to the vertcal side of the Class II prep that is next to the pulp.

endotom

I have to disagree based on Sturdvant's definition. Perpendicular to long axis of tooth. Also called a seat.

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by endotom
Folks,

The pulpal wall of a cavity preparation is the side nearest the pulp chamber. It can be the floor of the prep in a Class I or the pulpal side of the box in a Class II prep. The floor of the prep is almost never called the pulpal wall. It mostly refers to the vertcal side of the Class II prep that is next to the pulp.

This isn't referred to as an axial wall (as it has been in every single Class II & Class V lecture we've gotten so far)?

 

[Doggie]

Originally posted by DrRob
Gingival Bevel - for class 2 amalgam? We were not taught that at MUSOD. Only for gold inlays - I have never placed a gingival bevel for a class 2 amalgam.

we never learned gingival bevels......but we do remove the unsupported enamel at the gingival floor.........i guess kinda making it look like it was bevelled.....🙄

 

[bitecys]

I think a gingival bevel for Class II amalgam is a particularly bad idea. Last time I checked, cavosurface angles for amalgam restorations should be darn near 90 degrees. That thin little lip of amalgam on the bevelled gingival floor is going to chip off and allow you to charge your patient another 80 bucks to do another restoration in the same spot in a few years.

Use a margin trimmer or hatchet to smooth the floor and fill that baby up.

 

[drPheta]

Originally posted by bitecys
I think a gingival bevel for Class II amalgam is a particularly bad idea. Last time I checked, cavosurface angles for amalgam restorations should be darn near 90 degrees. That thin little lip of amalgam on the bevelled gingival floor is going to chip off and allow you to charge your patient another 80 bucks to do another restoration in the same spot in a few years.

Use a margin trimmer or hatchet to smooth the floor and fill that baby up.

That's what the margin trimmer does, is it planes that "bevel" into the gingival margin. We don't use burs to make the bevel. We use margin trimmers #28 and #29 for that (distal and mesial, respectively).

All this does is put a "bevel" in where the unsupported enamel rods were. If you leave those rods, they'll chip off and create a poor margin between the enamel and amalgam.

 

[bitecys]

the way I was interpreting it was as a bevel on the cavosurface margin itself, as one would do with your typical class II composite prep.

Yes the margin trimmmers removes unsupported rods, but it doesn't create a true bevel to the amount described in the thread. This would result in a weakened gingival floor and the amalgam WOULD fracture with time, making it an ideal case for recurrent decay to come in.

 

[drPheta]

Originally posted by bitecys
the way I was interpreting it was as a bevel on the cavosurface margin itself, as one would do with your typical class II composite prep.

Yes the margin trimmmers removes unsupported rods, but it doesn't create a true bevel to the amount described in the thread. This would result in a weakened gingival floor and the amalgam WOULD fracture with time, making it an ideal case for recurrent decay to come in.

Good call.

 

[G0 BEARS!!!]

At Pacific in Operative, they use "pulpal wall" and "pulpal floor" interchangeably.

I also don't recall them teaching us anything about a gingival bevel for class II amalgams.

 

[Supernumerary]

We have an instructor who insists that we use the term pulpal wall instead of pulpal floor. In his opinion it is less confusing since class I maxillary restorations "don't technically have a floor - and it certainly it isn't the pulpal ceiling." (His words, not mine.) I'm not sure pulpal wall really clears anything up, but I'll use it just cause I think Dr. Frazier's a good guy and it makes him happy. 🙂

As for the gingival bevel - we are taught the same thing. It is to compensate for the inverted direction of the enamel rods as the enamel reaches the end of the anatomic crown. It is very slight and you do have to be careful that you don't make a ski slope that will weaken the restoration, but it does seem logical not to leave all that unsupported enamel.