Pursuing pharmacy in 2020+

[Eth95]

Is it worth it?
I read the job outlook for the next 8 years is 0%.

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[allantois]

You answered your question

 

[Eth95]

So why would somebody still choose to study it despite the terrible job outlook?

 

[zNoodlez]

So why would somebody still choose to study it despite the terrible job outlook?

Ignorance

 

[penpenclown]

Ignorance

and/or hubris from what I've seen

 

[Timbo]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
2. Job market will correct itself by the time you graduate
3. Pharmacists will ALWAYS be needed
4. Only retail is saturated. There are so many other options for pharmacists like hospital, clinical, long-term care, mail-order, industry, compounding, etc.
5. You will find a job as long as you are willing to move and do networking
6. Pharmacists will be needed in the future because large aging baby boomer population
7. Pharmacy is perfect for you if you love chemistry and helping people but don' t like blood and guts
8. Great work life balance. You don't take your work home with you like doctors.
9. My aunt's friend's cousin is a pharmacist and make $150k per year
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

 

[mentos]

Is it worth it?
I read the job outlook for the next 8 years is 0%.

No.

 

[deleted562805]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
2. Job market will correct itself by the time you graduate
3. Pharmacists will ALWAYS be needed
4. Only retail is saturated. There are so many other options for pharmacists like hospital, clinical, long-term care, mail-order, industry, compounding, etc.
5. You will find a job as long as you are willing to move and do networking
6. Pharmacists will be needed in the future because large aging baby boomer population
7. Pharmacy is perfect for you if you love chemistry and helping people but don' t like blood and guts
8. Great work life balance. You don't take your work home with you like doctors.
9. My aunt's friend's cousin is a pharmacist and make $150k per year
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

1. BLS is a accurate prediction. Senior pharmacists are finding it hard to retire
2. The job market is already correcting itself. Pharmacists are overpaid.
3. I think COVID-19 pandemic has proven that pharmacists are not always needed. Considering that clinical pharmacists in New York are working from home.
4. Retail is saturated and Residency/ clinical pharmacy is also getting saturated. There are pgy2 critical care residents looking for bfe prn staff hospital jobs
5. Getting a job is not guaranteed although networking can help
6. The supply has met the demand for pharmacists. Mail order pharmacies are more beneficial to baby boomers with multiple prescriptions and don’t need that many pharmacists to run the operation.
7. If you love chemistry, chemical engineering at Dow chemical plant is more lucrative than pharmacy
8. False, not all doctors take their work home. Especially doctors that have less patients and relative easy patient cases like dermatologists or doctors that perform elective cosmetic surgeries like plastic surgeons. Pharmacist on night shift or 24 hour store is not a great work life balance. In fact, 24 hour retail pharmacist shift is worse than Family medicine doctor schedule.
9. That pay was back in 2000. Now, it is 50/hr if you can get full time work and if you are lucky. Some states the pay is 48/hr.
10.passion should not be the only factor on why someone should do pharmacy. Pre-Pharms need to work as a tech to understand the work conditions of a pharmacist. Passion is not going to pay those student loans quickly.

 

[PharmtoCS]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
2. Job market will correct itself by the time you graduate
3. Pharmacists will ALWAYS be needed
4. Only retail is saturated. There are so many other options for pharmacists like hospital, clinical, long-term care, mail-order, industry, compounding, etc.
5. You will find a job as long as you are willing to move and do networking
6. Pharmacists will be needed in the future because large aging baby boomer population
7. Pharmacy is perfect for you if you love chemistry and helping people but don' t like blood and guts
8. Great work life balance. You don't take your work home with you like doctors.
9. My aunt's friend's cousin is a pharmacist and make $150k per year
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

11. Saturation is a hoax. It’s a conspiracy propagated by old pharmacists who don’t want more competition for jobs from new grads.

 

[mentos]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
2. Job market will correct itself by the time you graduate
3. Pharmacists will ALWAYS be needed
4. Only retail is saturated. There are so many other options for pharmacists like hospital, clinical, long-term care, mail-order, industry, compounding, etc.
5. You will find a job as long as you are willing to move and do networking
6. Pharmacists will be needed in the future because large aging baby boomer population
7. Pharmacy is perfect for you if you love chemistry and helping people but don' t like blood and guts
8. Great work life balance. You don't take your work home with you like doctors.
9. My aunt's friend's cousin is a pharmacist and make $150k per year
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

Sadly, pre-pharms will think this post is true.

 

[mentos]

1. BLS is a accurate prediction. Senior pharmacists are finding it hard to retire
2. The job market is already correcting itself. Pharmacists are overpaid.
3. I think COVID-19 pandemic has proven that pharmacists are not always needed. Considering that clinical pharmacists in New York are working from home.
4. Retail is saturated and Residency/ clinical pharmacy is also getting saturated. There are pgy2 critical care residents looking for bfe prn staff hospital jobs
5. Getting a job is not guaranteed although networking can help
6. The supply has met the demand for pharmacists. Mail order pharmacies are more beneficial to baby boomers with multiple prescriptions and don’t need that many pharmacists to run the operation.
7. If you love chemistry, chemical engineering at Dow chemical plant is more lucrative than pharmacy
8. False, not all doctors take their work home. Especially doctors that have less patients and relative easy patient cases like dermatologists or doctors that perform elective cosmetic surgeries like plastic surgeons. Pharmacist on night shift or 24 hour store is not a great work life balance. In fact, 24 hour retail pharmacist shift is worse than Family medicine doctor schedule.
9. That pay was back in 2000. Now, it is 50/hr if you can get full time work and if you are lucky. Some states the pay is 48/hr.
10.passion should not be the only factor on why someone should do pharmacy. Pre-Pharms need to work as a tech to understand the work conditions of a pharmacist. Passion is not going to pay those student loans quickly.

That whole post was satire/sarcasm. You ruined the joke LoL.

 

[TerryTerry]

It will be amazing for 5% of students who are truly exceptional with right connections.

For 95% people it probably will be a financial suicide.

 

[mentos]

It will be amazing for 5% of students who are truly exceptional with right connections.

For 95% people it probably will be a financial suicide.

I wouldn't even say 5%. New pharmacists rarely make over 100k these days. That's a terrible investment for 4 years and 6 figures of debt.

 

[DagS132]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
2. Job market will correct itself by the time you graduate
3. Pharmacists will ALWAYS be needed
4. Only retail is saturated. There are so many other options for pharmacists like hospital, clinical, long-term care, mail-order, industry, compounding, etc.
5. You will find a job as long as you are willing to move and do networking
6. Pharmacists will be needed in the future because large aging baby boomer population
7. Pharmacy is perfect for you if you love chemistry and helping people but don' t like blood and guts
8. Great work life balance. You don't take your work home with you like doctors.
9. My aunt's friend's cousin is a pharmacist and make $150k per year
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

Is this some sort of joke? Number 9 really throws me off. Your aunt's friend's cousin lmao. Why wouldn't you just list your own pay as a pharmacist?

 

[deleted976395]

Is this some sort of joke? Number 9 really throws me off. Your aunt's friend's cousin lmao. Why wouldn't you just list your own pay as a pharmacist?

he's trolling!

 

[mentos]

Is this some sort of joke? Number 9 really throws me off. Your aunt's friend's cousin lmao. Why wouldn't you just list your own pay as a pharmacist?

Whooooosh.

 

[zNoodlez]

A friend of mine, pharmacist, is now pushing her own brand of weight loss pills on Instagram.

 

[AM77]

So why would somebody still choose to study it despite the terrible job outlook?

The pharmacy recruiters openly lie about the job market and six figure pharmacist salaries to prospective students. Once the students see the potential dollar signs, all logic is tossed out of the window.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Apha peeps have forked tongues...State pharmacy clubs "ditto" pharmacy professors "ditto"...I don't know about hospitals ..but retail pharmacy has always been high paid ..high speed drudgery.....NOW it is still high speed drudgery ....with shrinking ..or maybe NO pay...for 99 out of 100 new grads...there will be no escape...not nuclear..not joining the medical corps...or public health...not being brilliant...no big house....no drop top BMW....

 

[mentos]

So why would somebody still choose to study it despite the terrible job outlook?

1) They think the job market will "correct itself" by the time they graduate. They just don't understand or are unwilling to accept that the job market is already correcting itself now. Wages have been too high for over a decade and have nowhere to go but down.
2) They hear about pharmacists making 6 figures and that's all they care about.
3) They think the saturation doesn't apply to them because they're better than the other 15,000 pharmDs per year.
4) Their school lied to them and they believe it.
5) They think we're all haters and doom and gloom.
6) Their parent's friends kids have been pharmacists for years and make a good living so that means their snowflake will too.
7) They want to "help people" except during a pandemic they don't want to go near people.
8) It's their "passion" but only if it pays 6 figures.
9) They want to be "doctors".

Take your pick.

 

[DagS132]

So why would somebody still choose to study it despite the terrible job outlook?

If you actually look on youtube, its false hope. Its almost like a new faith to ignore the numbers and believe that if you work hard, you will be successful in life. There are many videos online claiming to just believe in god or to just work hard.

 

[Gombrich12]

The pharmacy recruiters openly lie about the job market and six figure pharmacist salaries to prospective students. Once the students see the potential dollar signs, all logic is tossed out of the window.

I gently asked a prepharm at work if they knew about the job market and they immediately got defensive. I imagine most prepharms have been exposed to information saying pharmacy is a bad choice but they are stubborn due to having few or no other options.

 

[zNoodlez]

I gently asked a prepharm at work if they knew about the job market and they immediately got defensive. I imagine most prepharms have been exposed to information saying pharmacy is a bad choice but they are stubborn due to having few or no other options.

Why would they think that? I mean most of them probably majored in Biology, Chemistry, or Biochem, the backbones to many other healthcare professional programs such as MD/DO, PA, PT, OD, or even RN/NP. I think the majority of these defensive pre-pharms are incredibly short-sighted.

 

[RxEvileye]

Another thread like this? From a new account? Who would have thought.

 

[DagS132]

Another thread like this? From a new account? Who would have thought.

Its a tradition at this point on SDN.

 

[deleted562805]

If you actually look on youtube, its false hope. Its almost like a new faith to ignore the numbers and believe that if you work hard, you will be successful in life. There are many videos online claiming to just believe in god or to just work hard.

Well, Paul Tran a pharmacist/Youtuber tells you up front that pharmacy is not a good profession to go in.

 

[deleted562805]

Why would they think that? I mean most of them probably majored in Biology, Chemistry, or Biochem, the backbones to many other healthcare professional programs such as MD/DO, PA, PT, OD, or even RN/NP. I think the majority of these defensive pre-pharms are incredibly short-sighted.

You do realize some of those prepharms may not have the grades to get into the other health care programs. If they don’t have grades, I think the pre PharmD should consider coding/ programming. As CS companies don’t care about GPA. They care about actual projects completed from a boot camp or tree house

 

[zNoodlez]

You do realize some of those prepharms may not have the grades to get into the other health care programs. If they don’t have grades, I think the pre PharmD should consider coding/ programming. As CS companies don’t care about GPA. They care about actual projects completed from a boot camp or tree house

God bless them all

 

[deleted562805]

Why would they think that? I mean most of them probably majored in Biology, Chemistry, or Biochem, the backbones to many other healthcare professional programs such as MD/DO, PA, PT, OD, or even RN/NP. I think the majority of these defensive pre-pharms are incredibly short-sighted.

The pre pharms who did well in undergrad 3.5 and above GPA are extremely short sighted when they can apply to more in demand health care programs.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

Well, Paul Tran a pharmacist/Youtuber tells you up front that pharmacy is not a good profession to go in.

he got furloughed recently. prepharms will just pad themselves in the back and say it to themselves, "everything will be fine, i have pgy-1, pgy-2, pgy-3, pgy-4.... to fall back on and take shelter until the perfect job comes".

 

[casprph]

I wouldn't even say 5%. New pharmacists rarely make over 100k these days. That's a terrible investment for 4 years and 6 figures of debt.

Are there any statistics on what percent of newly graduated pharmacists obtained full time employment?

 

[mentos]

Are there any statistics on what percent of newly graduated pharmacists obtained full time employment?

No the only stats you'll see are "97% employment" from pharmacy schools to make it sound like everyone makes 6 figures.

What they really need to do is break it down into:
-40 hours full time
-30-32 hours full time
-temp jobs (ie residencies)
-part time
-per diem
-unemployed

They also need say how many answered the survey and how many didn't, and to give average salary. Taking all of the above into account, I'd estimate the average salary including unemployed would be somewhere around $65,000-70,000 per year pre-tax.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

No the only stats you'll see are "97% employment" from pharmacy schools to make it sound like everyone makes 6 figures.

What they really need to do is break it down into:
-40 hours full time
-30-32 hours full time
-temp jobs (ie residencies)
-part time
-per diem
-unemployed

They also need say how many answered the survey and how many didn't, and to give average salary. Taking all of the above into account, I'd estimate the average salary including unemployed would be somewhere around $65,000-70,000 per year pre-tax.

if i am not mistaken, regular cs interns now make more than that.

 

[mentos]

if i am not mistaken, regular cs interns now make more than that.

That is true plus they have a fraction of the debt, if any.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

That is true plus they have a fraction of the debt, if any.

65k-70k is pathetic, and that's like 30-34/hr?
almost any 2nd year undergrad cs interns can make more than that,

 

[mentos]

65k-70k is pathetic, and that's like 30-34/hr?
almost any 2nd year undergrad cs interns can make more than that,

Well those who are employed make around $50/hr in retail. I'm estimating 65-70k for average class salary which includes unemployed, temp, PRN and part time positions.

 

[Timbo]

No the only stats you'll see are "97% employment" from pharmacy schools to make it sound like everyone makes 6 figures.

What they really need to do is break it down into:
-40 hours full time
-30-32 hours full time
-temp jobs (ie residencies)
-part time
-per diem
-unemployed

They also need say how many answered the survey and how many didn't, and to give average salary. Taking all of the above into account, I'd estimate the average salary including unemployed would be somewhere around $65,000-70,000 per year pre-tax.

To be fair lots of pharmacy school websites are actually showing around 70% employment. Some I've seen as low as 40%. Even if they were all full time (and they likely aren't as you're pointing out), it's still pretty damn terrible considering average unemployment in the US is only 3.6%.

 

[casprph]

To be fair lots of pharmacy school websites are actually showing around 70% employment. Some I've seen as low as 40%. Even if they were all full time (and they likely aren't as you're pointing out), it's still pretty damn terrible considering average unemployment in the US is only 3.6%.

Thank you for sharing! Have you seen if California schools have higher employment rates for their graduates in comparison to the nation?

 

[deleted562805]

he got furloughed recently. prepharms will just pad themselves in the back and say it to themselves, "everything will be fine, i have pgy-1, pgy-2, pgy-3, pgy-4.... to fall back on and take shelter until the perfect job comes".

Man, that’s stupid thinking considering there are other patient care jobs like PA which take less schooling and pays more than a five letters after your name pharmacist

 

[PharmtoCS]

Thank you for sharing! Have you seen if California schools have higher employment rates for their graduates in comparison to the nation?

Rather a moot point considering that the cost of school in California alone makes going to pharmacy school in the state a complete ripoff.

No the only stats you'll see are "97% employment" from pharmacy schools to make it sound like everyone makes 6 figures.

What they really need to do is break it down into:
-40 hours full time
-30-32 hours full time
-temp jobs (ie residencies)
-part time
-per diem
-unemployed

They also need say how many answered the survey and how many didn't, and to give average salary. Taking all of the above into account, I'd estimate the average salary including unemployed would be somewhere around $65,000-70,000 per year pre-tax.

I would also wonder how many of the "employed" are working in a position that does not requires a PharmD and/or license.

Read: a job that one could have landed without having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of their lives in school. i.e. driving for Uber/Lyft, etc.

 

[Xenophylia]

I would also wonder how many of the "employed" are working in a position that does not requires a PharmD and/or license.

Read: a job that one could have landed without having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of their lives in school. i.e. driving for Uber/Lyft, etc.

Trade schools have been doing that for years. There were several in my area that offered "lucrative" degrees in things like video game art design, etc. They advertised 100% job placement. Wow! And they weren't lying. A guy I know who pursued that degree was placed into a job bagging groceries. So they're not exactly lying when they give such great placement stats. You've got to read between the lines....

 

[mentos]

Rather a moot point considering that the cost of school in California alone makes going to pharmacy school in the state a complete ripoff.



I would also wonder how many of the "employed" are working in a position that does not requires a PharmD and/or license.

Read: a job that one could have landed without having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of their lives in school. i.e. driving for Uber/Lyft, etc.

True. There have been threads in the pharmacy forum where unemployed pharmDs were delivering pizza and doing Uber. The pre-pharms can simply search there if they don't believe us.

Now that schools are forced to do distance learning this fall, I don't know why they haven't opened up an online only school at half the tuition price. Why bother constructing expensive campuses when you can cut out the middle man? It would be like Amazon killing retail stores.

 

[Xenophylia]

Why half the price? Think like a higher education admin. If online learning becomes the "new normal" the kids will pay anything to stand in the unemployment line in pursuit of "dah passion" for pharmacy. The only thing getting lower will be the standard of education. And- lets face it- they were already around the drain before the Rona......

 

[PotatoPharmer]

Whooooosh.

This man is using Reddit-speak I wouldn't trust him with anything.

 

[mentos]

This man is using Reddit-speak I wouldn't trust him with anything.

Yeah, why should you trust a pharmacist about the job market?

Have any of the Pharm Ds here managed to get into Pharmacy school out of Community College? A lot of the ones in my area offer the option but I’m wondering what it takes.

If I’m making $200k a year just selling the meds then what does it matter?

Does pharmacy school ranking really even matter anymore or no? From what people tell me a pharmacy education is a pharmacy education. I've been aiming at Chapman U and Loma Linda myself.

Good luck getting a job in 2024 or later making 200k after graduating from Chapman U straight from community college, I hear their NAPLEX pass rate is pretty good.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Is it worth it?
I read the job outlook for the next 8 years is 0%.

There is always jobs for people who are willing to work hard, you also have to know the right people... Yes, you may not get the jobs at the most favorable location with great hours and the best pay but it wont be as bad as people make it out to be...

 

[TerryTerry]

There is always jobs for people who are willing to work hard. Just remember that it might not be a pharmacist job.

 

[DagS132]

put down "works hard" on your CV and resume and you should be able to find a job 100% of the time

 

[allantois]

 

[DruggieDoRight]

put down "works hard" on your CV and resume and you should be able to find a job 100% of the time

He's right you know.