Pursuing pharmacy in 2020+

[DH1987]

It all boils down to one question: how badly do you want to make it happen?

That being said, how many people have actually said, when they were kids - "I want to be a pharmacist when I grow up!"

If you didn't say that as a kid, I don't think you should do it.

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[allantois]

It all boils down to one question: how badly do you want to make it happen?

That being said, how many people have actually said, when they were kids - "I want to be a pharmacist when I grow up!"

If you didn't say that as a kid, I don't think you should do it.

Who the heck wants to be a pharmacist as a kid??

 

[DH1987]

Who the heck wants to be a pharmacist as a kid??

Exactly.

 

[deleted562805]

True. There have been threads in the pharmacy forum where unemployed pharmDs were delivering pizza and doing Uber. The pre-pharms can simply search there if they don't believe us.

Now that schools are forced to do distance learning this fall, I don't know why they haven't opened up an online only school at half the tuition price. Why bother constructing expensive campuses when you can cut out the middle man? It would be like Amazon killing retail stores.

Pizza, Uber, and a pharmacy resident working for Dairy Queen

 

[Saiyo]

This prephsrm board has been slow recently. Are people finally listening or are the prepharms just scared to come out now?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Who the heck wants to be a pharmacist as a kid??

i fOUND iT sO fASCINATING wATCHING tHE gUY mIX mY mEDICINE wITH wATER

This prephsrm board has been slow recently. Are people finally listening or are the prepharms just scared to come out now?

The ones who are smart will listen. The ones who are in denial will just stay silent knowing they have no defense for their decision to go to pharmacy school.

 

[Saiyo]

The ones who are smart will listen.

If the board was like this 10 years ago when I was trying to decide whether to pursue pharmacy, there's no doubt that I would have spent less time on pharmacy than I spent determining whether that internship "offer" from Southwestern Advantage was a scam.

 

[deleted976395]

What do you think of PA or NP programs that have similar requirements (little more than pharmacy schools) with better job outlook? why do you think pharmacy students aren't doing that instead?

 

[deleted562805]

What do you think of PA or NP programs that have similar requirements (little more than pharmacy schools) with better job outlook? why do you think pharmacy students aren't doing that instead?

PA and NP have job growth for now. In the long term, I can see it getting saturated in 10 years. Maybe prepharms are not informed about PA and NP or they don’t have the grades. And yes, BSN programs have become competitive.

 

[Timbo]

PA and NP have job growth for now. In the long term, I can see it getting saturated in 10 years. Maybe prepharms are not informed about PA and NP or they don’t have the grades. And yes, BSN programs have become competitive.

Weird other professions respond to saturation by making their programs more competitive. Pharmacy responds to saturation by increasing class sizes and lowering standards

 

[DentGent13]

What do you think of PA or NP programs that have similar requirements (little more than pharmacy schools) with better job outlook? why do you think pharmacy students aren't doing that instead?

PA and NP have job growth for now. In the long term, I can see it getting saturated in 10 years. Maybe prepharms are not informed about PA and NP or they don’t have the grades. And yes, BSN programs have become competitive.

Apparently over in the NP forums and subreddit, they are saying there's over saturation of the NP job and some NPs can't find jobs as well. Nothing on PAs about over saturation yet though.

 

[deleted562805]

Apparently over in the NP forums and subreddit, they are saying there's over saturation of the NP job and some NPs can't find jobs as well. Nothing on PAs about over saturation yet though.

Check PA forums. They are finding it hard to get jobs in cities which don’t give them independent licensure. But if a pre pharm does not want to medicine or dentistry and wants to quit pursing pharmacy and wants something in health care. PA and NP is viable option compared to pharmacy

 

[deleted976395]

I'm getting my info from the bureau of labor statistics which states that PA will grow 30% from 2018-2028. I can see why that is. PAs are much cheaper than MDs (Of course they don't do everything an MD does). Where as pharmacists are restricted to either retail pharmacy or retail pharmacy, PAs have a wider range of job opportunities. Not to mention PA is a 24 month degree with half the tuition.
The main thing i have noticed while talking to prepharms, is that most of them do not have any work experience. Almost all pharmacy schools require no pharmacy experience where as PA schools require at least 1000 hours of health care work experience whether it being a nurse or EMT...
The prepharms think they will be doctors in 4 years making $150,000+ a year. Although there is some truth to that statement. Pharmacies are not going away any time soon. If a prepharm has connections and can land a job when he/she graduates, pharmacy is an awesome profession. If you have no experience working in the pharmacy what so ever, you will be in for a shock when you start working as a pharmacist (If you will find a job). I would say drop out now and save your wallet if you can.

 

[Marzapan]

I'm getting my info from the bureau of labor statistics which states that PA will grow 30% from 2018-2028. I can see why that is. PAs are much cheaper than MDs (Of course they don't do everything an MD does). Where as pharmacists are restricted to either retail pharmacy or retail pharmacy, PAs have a wider range of job opportunities. Not to mention PA is a 24 month degree with half the tuition.
The main thing i have noticed while talking to prepharms, is that most of them do not have any work experience. Almost all pharmacy schools require no pharmacy experience where as PA schools require at least 1000 hours of health care work experience whether it being a nurse or EMT...
The prepharms think they will be doctors in 4 years making $150,000+ a year. Although there is some truth to that statement. Pharmacies are not going away any time soon. If a prepharm has connections and can land a job when he/she graduates, pharmacy is an awesome profession. If you have no experience working in the pharmacy what so ever, you will be in for a shock when you start working as a pharmacist (If you will find a job). I would say drop out now and save your wallet if you can.

Agree with everything except your last paragraph. Pharmacies may not be going away anytime soon, but pharmacists are. Just look at the changing legislation, role expansion of technicians and downsizing/layoffs that are going on for pharmacists right now. Conversely, there is a shortage of pharmacy technicians so those jobs will continue to be in demand for decades to come.

 

[deleted562805]

I'm getting my info from the bureau of labor statistics which states that PA will grow 30% from 2018-2028. I can see why that is. PAs are much cheaper than MDs (Of course they don't do everything an MD does). Where as pharmacists are restricted to either retail pharmacy or retail pharmacy, PAs have a wider range of job opportunities. Not to mention PA is a 24 month degree with half the tuition.
The main thing i have noticed while talking to prepharms, is that most of them do not have any work experience. Almost all pharmacy schools require no pharmacy experience where as PA schools require at least 1000 hours of health care work experience whether it being a nurse or EMT...
The prepharms think they will be doctors in 4 years making $150,000+ a year. Although there is some truth to that statement. Pharmacies are not going away any time soon. If a prepharm has connections and can land a job when he/she graduates, pharmacy is an awesome profession. If you have no experience working in the pharmacy what so ever, you will be in for a shock when you start working as a pharmacist (If you will find a job). I would say drop out now and save your wallet if you can.

PA is definitely better than pharmacy right now. Some PA programs like UM require at least 500 hrs of health care experience. Nurse, EMT, or even pharmacy tech. Pharmacy is not good. I think even becoming EMT is now better than becoming a pharmacist

 

[mentos]

why do you think pharmacy students aren't doing that instead?

'Cause most pharmacy students don't want to talk to patients or touch them.

 

[VA77]

I think the prepharms are getting the point now but unfortunately it only takes 15k of them to fully stock the pharm schools. Gotta keep driving all these points home to them.

 

[Xenophylia]

Eventually the retail and hospital overlords will push for legislation that makes technicians like medical midlevels. They will populate pharmacies under the wing of a supervising pharmacist located remotely. Say one pharmacist to 30 or 40 techs. Pharmacist has to be available by phone for tech questions and patient consults. And the pharmacist risks his or her license by being the supervisor. The model for this has already been tested in medicine, and has resulted in allowing midlevels (PAs, NPs) to replace doctors at a fraction of the cost. The bean counters love it. Just wait and see. This is the future business model of pharmacy practice. But ask the doctors how they like it....

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Eventually the retail and hospital overlords will push for legislation that makes technicians like medical midlevels. They will populate pharmacies under the wing of a supervising pharmacist located remotely. Say one pharmacist to 30 or 40 techs. Pharmacist has to be available by phone for tech questions and patient consults. And the pharmacist risks his or her license by being the supervisor. The model for this has already been tested in medicine, and has resulted in allowing midlevels (PAs, NPs) to replace doctors at a fraction of the cost. The bean counters love it. Just wait and see. This is the future business model of pharmacy practice. But ask the doctors how they like it....

Right... that has been business model everywhere... Cut everyone's job..and make people work for a fraction of the cost.
Now they can run the hospitals with crna's instead of anaesthesiologist... a NP instead of FM/hospitalist
Eventually, the customers lose... meaning you and I who pay for the medical insurance to get the services...
Just because an NP or crna is seeing you,does not mean they charge you less... instead of seeing actual doctors, people see a nurse with a halo and a white coat.

 

[Xenophylia]

Right... that has been business model everywhere... Cut everyone's job..and make people work for a fraction of the cost.
Now they can run the hospitals with crna's instead of anaesthesiologist... a NP instead of FM/hospitalist
Eventually, the customers lose... meaning you and I who pay for the medical insurance to get the services...
Just because an NP or crna is seeing you,does not mean they charge you less... instead of seeing actual doctors, people see a nurse with a halo and a white coat.

Yeah I read a lot of these threads on the doctor forums. Now that that business model has been implemented and worked for hospitals it is inevitable it will spread to non physician professionals. And you are correct- the model only benefits the business itself. The patient doesn't see any of the savings and (in many cases) gets a less trained practitioner. They'll send pharmacy techs to a two year associates program. Give them some kind of credentials and pay them half of what a pharmacist makes. Pharmacists lose (less jobs/ liability to monitor poorly trained techs). Techs lose (pharmacist responsibility/ workload at half the pay). Patients lose (less trained people providing the service). Pharmacy chains and hospitals win (saves $$, same outcome in their opinion). Patients ultimately don't care- all they see is the white coat and not the individual inside.

And sadly, if they could do this to physicians (who have the lobbying clout to have potentially stopped it and yet it still happened), pharmacy will collapse easily with our historically spineless professional representation which sells us out at every drop of the hat to big business. Having it happen to physicians- often thought to be untouchable in the medical hierarchy- is definitely not a good precedent to have been set.

 

[FoodstampPharmacist]

Is it worth it?
I read the job outlook for the next 8 years is 0%.

It's actually less than 0 now. it's -3% but this is still lagging. The real job rate growth should be -10-15%
"

Job Outlook, 2019-29	-3% (Decline)

"

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Pharmacists dispense prescription medications and provide information to patients about the drugs and their use.

www.bls.gov

 

[PSOP Student]

1. BLS is just a prediction. Also doesn't take into account all the pharmacists who are going to retire.
...
10. Don't let anyone tell you not to follow your passion

11. MTM.
12. Providers status.
13. Automation is impossible.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Is it worth it?
I read the job outlook for the next 8 years is 0%.

At this point, experience and who you know may be the only things to get you jobs.

 

[APN-59 rph]

At this point, experience and who you know may be the only things to get you jobs.

AND.."who ya know" may get you a spot...but "who ya know" will not likely have the horsepower to support the present pay scales...No one will call the future on this one...

 

[iamapharmacist]

AND.."who ya know" may get you a spot...but "who ya know" will not likely have the horsepower to support the present pay scales...No one will call the future on this one...

True but at least you will have a job lol

 

[cali-native86]

No the only stats you'll see are "97% employment" from pharmacy schools to make it sound like everyone makes 6 figures.

What they really need to do is break it down into:
-40 hours full time
-30-32 hours full time
-temp jobs (ie residencies)
-part time
-per diem
-unemployed

They also need say how many answered the survey and how many didn't, and to give average salary. Taking all of the above into account, I'd estimate the average salary including unemployed would be somewhere around $65,000-70,000 per year pre-tax.

You forgot to add in floater vs non-floater. I know some recent grads who commute around 80-100 miles each direction to work in a chain pharmacy. Furthermore, there are others who are hired "on call" and struggle to get more than about 20-25 hrs per week.

 

[TerryTerry]

Pursuing pharmacy going forward from here -> stupidity

 

[DM2015]

I actually think a lot of people are still pursuing it because when discussing this concern with graduates, it never matches what we hear in the news/reports. I don’t know any unemployed Pharmacy graduates. Every single one I know has a stable job, including people who just graduated in 2020. I’m sure if people knew of more people who weren’t finding jobs personally, they wouldn’t opt in.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Stop pursuing 4 year/8 year degrees and go into plumbing, handyman, electrician jobs .. pays 90-100$ an hour with no student loans.. can make a lot of money with 4 months of training... God knows, they are gonna have entrance exam (PCAT= plumbing college admission test) for it.

 

[TerryTerry]

I actually think a lot of people are still pursuing it because when discussing this concern with graduates, it never matches what we hear in the news/reports. I don’t know any unemployed Pharmacy graduates. Every single one I know has a stable job, including people who just graduated in 2020. I’m sure if people knew of more people who weren’t finding jobs personally, they wouldn’t opt in.

What a terrible logic. Come on !

 

[DM2015]

What a terrible logic. Come on !

I didn’t say that’s the only reason someone would pursue it. I’m saying that is what my experience has been in my area. So if anyone is like me then maybe that’s why they feel the way they do about continuing to pursue it.

 

[cali-native86]

I didn’t say that’s the only reason someone would pursue it. I’m saying that is what my experience has been in my area. So if anyone is like me then maybe that’s why they feel the way they do about continuing to pursue it.

What area do you live in? Most of the coastal states seem overly saturated. In fact i interviewed at one of the CA pharmD schools last spring 2020, and my interviewer who was on faculty and directed the PGY1 residency program at this program straight up told me to consider alternatives besides pharmacy because it was a dying industry. I thought that was odd he told me that and I even told him so, but he mentioned again that pharmacy is just not a good investment anymore and just wanted to be real honest with me. He said that if you are super passionate and can't imagine doing anything else besides pharmacy the rest of your life, then great but know that the odds of being able to land a full time job will be stacked against you. Anyways, I ended up getting admitted from this school the very next day after my interview and I rejected their offer and am now pursuing other healthcare options besides pharm.

 

[TerryTerry]

I didn’t say that’s the only reason someone would pursue it. I’m saying that is what my experience has been in my area. So if anyone is like me then maybe that’s why they feel the way they do about continuing to pursue it.

You are exposed to pharmacy working environment. What`s the chance you will meet employed pharmacist vs unemployed?

 

[Sine Cura]

"I didn't see it, therefore it doesn't exist or it isn't a concern."