Pushing my luck with disadvantaged status?

[hopemedbound]

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Hello everyone,

I'm new here, so tell me if I do anything wrong. First of all, I've been reading these boards for a little while, and I really like the advice some of you are giving to us in the application process.

My question is, on the AMCAS, the Disadvantaged Applicant section threw me off a little bit. It said that if I have any sort of economical or educational disadvantages to list them.
Both of my parents were not able to finish college or get their degrees, so I am the first one in my family to graduate from college. I am also the first one of my family born in the US. Should I list this education disadvantage on my AMCAS since it is true, or should I not push my luck?

Thanks!

 

[birdie]

I'm in the same boat as ya'll. I'm debating whether or not to apply as disadvantaged. Based on my family income level, I am able to qualify for disadvantaged programs and I was even approved for the amcas fee waiver. However, even though I'm not wealthy, I am not *extremely* poor. My parents will even be paying 10K/yr towards my med school. I think somehow I qualify for these programs b/c i have a huge family and my parents have so many dependents.
Herpeto, I would say you should definitely apply as disadvantaged. It shows have you have overcome adversity and succeeded. Hopemedbound, I think your economic situation would also play a role in whether or not you apply as disadvantaged. I mean, there are some parents who never went to college who still make six figures and it wouldn't be fair to call their children disadvanted.

 

[Ernham]

"In 1993, 24 percent of the applicants who were classified as URMs but not economically disadvantaged were accepted while only 6 percent of applicants who were classified as economically disadvantaged but who were non-URMs were accepted."

Keep in mind that these "disadvantaged non-URMs" have about 5 points higher mcats and ~.5 higher GPAs(see my sig) than the non-economically disadvantaged URMs.

The moral of the story: if you are white, it doesn't matter who you are or where you came from, disadvantaged status means jackchit.

The whole being able to claim"disadvantaged status" is just a front for their Machiavellian, Marxist schemes.

Well-to-do whites are just as gleeful to act ignorant all the while, who do you think perpetrates all this non-sense?

 

[womansurg]

Having worked closely with a member of the admissions committee of my med school, and based on our discussions of the process, I'll just offer some perspectives.

As we've all seen, even very high scores and grades can fail to result in acceptances, while some who have relatively low stats may find themselves welcomed into great schools. A lot has to do with the interview process. Basically, if your stats were good enough to land you an interview, then you are seriously in the running for a position at that school.

Basically, the adcom members sit down after their interviews and go over their impressions. If you look outstanding on paper, yet came off as socially inept or unapproachable, you might be vetoed. On the other hand, anything about you which made you stand out to the interviewer may cause him or her to lobby on your behalf. Just like everyone else, interviewers love a good comeback story, or evidence that you are a fighter, or have overcome extraordinary circumstances. So coming from a disadvantaged background might work in your favor, depending upon how you present it. Just like being an athlete, or active in politics, or any number of things could help you stand out as somehow different and exceptional. Unlike being an URM, however, there isn't usually an automatic selection bias in the case of economic disadvantage.

So, if you are going to present yourself as disadvantaged, be ready to incorporate that aspect of your history into an interesting and appealing presentation of how it helped shape who you are today, and how it might help you to practice more effective medicine, so forth. Otherwise, unless it somehow serves to make an interviewer see you as a better or more deserving candidate, there's no real advantage to presentin yourself that way.

 

[Ernham]

To further qualify that statement, and I'm sorry to be the bearer of such bad news, it can only be held AGAINST you if you apply as disadvantaged. As a matter of fact, these data suggest it is a distinct DISADVANTAGE, considering a standard deviation from the AAMC data, to be considered disadvantaged as a non-urm.

I'm sorry you been lied to by a system of vipers.

 

[kito]

be safe and don't claim the exception. unless you're dirt poor you most likely were afforded many of the same opportunities as your peers and predecessors in the america's middle class. be confident and let the weight of your accomplishments carry you. if you think you need to claim the exception to get into medical school perhaps you need to strengthen your candidacy.

 

[An Yong]

Originally posted by Herpeto
Thank You for the insight. As I suspected, it seems claiming disadvantaged status may hinder my chances of acceptance. Therefore, I won't be informing the admissions committee of my childhood environment. I assume everyone has something they consider as adverse conditions and mine is simply no different nor more diffcultthan anyone elses childhood experiences.

Herp

Herpeto, I think that in your situation you should apply as disadvantaged. You might want to check with your pre-med advisor, but I thought claiming disadvantaged status for economic reasons is perfectly understandable if you had some history of poverty (in this situation your childhood). I highly doubt that claiming disadvantaged status will be used to discriminate against you, if anything I would think it would work in favor for you. In the end, if you are still hesistant to claim disadvantaged status, why not try to incorporate it into your ps somehow. I know personally what its like to go through poverty as a child and its not something that is easy to overcome. I think such an ordeal is a great source to be utilized in an essay. Anyways, good luck!

 

[Ernham]

No....

If the standard deviation of all med school applicants, in regards to GPA/MCATs, holds reasonably true for disadvantaged "non-URM" applicants, then the data suggest it is a disadvantage on paper to be truly disadvantaged in real life.

I could offer a suggestion on why this might be the case: possibly some "marginal" non-URM applied as disadvantaged and received some backlash for doing so(not disadvantaged "enough" for the adcom), hence the admission discrepancy.

Only in America can you be white/Asian and entirely disadvantage to be further disadvantaged by "the system," meanwhile an "overadvantaged" black can be "overadvantaged" by admission officers. Welcome to america, leave your civil rights at the border.

 

[birdie]

An Young, did you apply as disadvantaged? If so, what were your interview experiences?

 

[woolie]

Originally posted by Herpeto
I'm wondering if I should do the same thing. I came from a home where we grew up on food stamps and in a trailer park until we were about 5, then lived with a physically, verbally and emotionally controlling and abusive step-father from age 8-16. At the same time, both my step-father and mother were addicted to drugs, mainly marijuana. I am debating as to whether this is considered disadvantaged or just poor circumstances. Also, if I did go the disadvantaged route, are admissions committees going to look down on me because of this and not want to interview me? I would almost feel like I am whining if I told them this. I'm also not sure what to do.

Herp

Hi Herpeto, I think you should do the disadvantaged thing because these are really messed up environments to come from and to be honest, alot of people do not go on to medical school but just are overwhelmed by the stuff and drop out of school, or pump gas (not that there's anything wrong with that ... but you know what I mean) or in other words live WAY below their potential. Diminished lives ...

My family was really pretty well off but I was basically left on my own from 15 on. I was sent away to school and then at 18 I was completely on my own. My parents are alcoholics and it's very sad.

What I did on the amcas was say the truth about their income, etc. and then the part about the education I said something like: 'altho I don't consider myself tradtionally disadvantaged, I was granted independent status at 18 and was entirely self supporting and paid for my tuition, rent etc. While I wasn't aware of the significance of this at the time, today I am very proud of what I was able to achienve.'

And then in the essay I describe why I feel a special kinship to homeless people I have worked with, because I was myself homeless at 18, in NYC. And I say how I understand issues of alcoholism because of the experiences in my own family. I was very simple about it, and yet honest. So far, readers people have liked it. It's a great asset in a physician to have such a strong personal story like yours Herp.

I say: bee yourself and go for it!!

 

[lilywhites]

Hi Woolie and Herpeto, I am an Asian American female from California and applied as a disadvantaged applicant during this past year for medical school and will now be attending UCLA in the fall.

Here's my situation. While growing up, my parents made a combined $700 a month to provide for a family of six. We actually physically lived at the office where my parents worked, since my parents' boss knew we could not afford to live otherwise. Once my grandparents died, my parents spent $400 of our $700 to send my brother and me to private elementary schools before tuition costs grew too high and we had to attend very poor, innercity schools.

I have worked the graveyard shift with my parents during high school and 20 hours every week while in college. While in college, I have helped my little brother cope with his depression and multiple suicide attempts.

Here's my advice to you. I didn't just write down my circumstances and history in the disadvantaged section. I actually also used it as a starting point in my personal statement and sent letters to the different, individual adcom providing concrete examples that were NOT included in the disadvantaged section of my application about how my circumstances have affected me not only as an individual but as a competing applicant in the medical school admissions process. I always thought of the "disadvantaged" status as an opportunity to give the adcom a new lens to see someone's accomplishments through.

The truth is there is really NOTHING wrong with applying as a disadvantaged applicant. I received many positive interviews during the admissions cycles and only one awkward one, in which we discussed my disadvantaged status. However, if you can't say WHY it has affected you and HOW, most likely, your disadvantaged status will be little more than an after thought to the adcom committee. If you believe you were hindered by your experience, I fully encourage you to apply as a disadvantaged applicant, but keep in mind, if YOU can't even see how it's affected you as an applicant, why would any adcom committee?

 

[lilywhites]

By the way, Woolie, I think your personal statement sounds great 🙂 .

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

I think your parents are being exploited. $700/month is below full time 1997 MW.

 

[Ernham]

700 dollars a month is ridiculous. Just one person working minimum wage makes more than that.

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by Ernham
700 dollars a month is ridiculous. Just one person working minimum wage makes more than that.

That's how much was budgeted for living expenses on our loan package in med school. If you were nontrad and didn't have other resources, it was ridiculous. Most folks took a lot of help from their parents.

 

[lilywhites]

I posted to give an example of someone who applied as a disadvantaged applicant, but if you're interested, here's a fuller account of how my parents became "exploited".

When my parents immigrated in the early 1980s, neither of them could get a full time minimum wage job because of their lack of English. At best, my father worked part time as a janitor and then as a cook at a non-chain fast food restaurant since in inner-cities it's actually hard to get full time hours when everyone is competing for those hours. My mother couldn't get a job, because every time she brought in my brother and I to the interviews (5 months and 1 years old), every one said they couldn't let her work. My father brought in $450 to pay our $500 rent every month--you can do the math.

That's when my father found a boss that would pay my parents $700 a month to work 24 hours as desk clerks and maids at his motel. Since the salary could not cover cost of living, the boss let our family move into the office where we worked. You can call it exploitation, but however you cut it, this man was the only person that gave my parents a chance at a situation that would let us stay in the United States. That was in 1982. Since then, my parents have moved to a new motel and now make about $12,000 to $15,000 a year, which is now near minimum wage for a full time employee.

 

[woolie]

Thanks Lilywhites for your nice comment!

I understand what you mean about your story and I think that everyone must make their own decision about their application - we're all so different!

For me, it really was a big event in my life and very challenging and I wanted to bring that out in my description of who I am - and it was really hard to do. I had people really forcing me to say something because I was inclined to just gloss over it and pretend I was just like anyone else. The thing is, I didn't get a free ride thru college and I feel it made a big difference for me and I wouldn't want someone to look at my transcript and say: hmmm, just another Ivy grad who coasted on her parents money.

Also, people said that that experience is what makes me who I am, and has given me the personality I have today. I'm not a big research person and want to do general medicine and so I feel it helps me understand my patients more. Also, I am an older nontrad, so what happened when I was 18 seems a relatively long time ago, and I have done alot of other things in my life.