Q about infants and language

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Solideliquid

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There is a little debate going on in my little family. We are going to have a child soon (2-3 yrs), I want the child to be exposed to english only. While my wife wants the child to learn english, and russian.

So here's the question, is it overload for parents to introduce two or more languages to the developing infant? Should we focus on one language, and let him/her decide to pick up other languages in high school?


Thanks!
 
I don't know much about the formal reserach on the subject, but as a child I spoke only english until about 7, and then was immersed in a spanish speaking culture. So by 8 or 9 lets say I was fluent in both. I think the more languages and cultures a kid can be exposed to the better off they will be later in life. I've always been very happy with my bilingualism.
 
Psyclops said:
I don't know much about the formal reserach on the subject, but as a child I spoke only english until about 7, and then was immersed in a spanish speaking culture. So by 8 or 9 lets say I was fluent in both. I think the more languages and cultures a kid can be exposed to the better off they will be later in life. I've always been very happy with my bilingualism.


I agree. Though in most cases an infant is exposed to their primary language, how about exposure to more than one language at once at this young age?
 
Solideliquid said:
There is a little debate going on in my little family. We are going to have a child soon (2-3 yrs), I want the child to be exposed to english only. While my wife wants the child to learn english, and russian.

So here's the question, is it overload for parents to introduce two or more languages to the developing infant? Should we focus on one language, and let him/her decide to pick up other languages in high school?


Thanks!

SOLID YOU MUST EXPOSE your child to as much as possible! They're sponges in the early stages so by speaking both, you're giving your child a tool to use in the future!

It is not overload, although they may speak a little later than other infants. When raised in a bilingual family, the children should learn it early on when they are developing the very essence of what sounds are like. So, when she is pregnant, start it then, one parent can speak in russian, the other in english - the ease of learning different languages increases the sooner you do it. The subtle nuances of language (like how a B is pronounced or how tch sounds are made) should be heard very early for a child to truly master the language and become fluent. Especially when you're considering Russian where certain vowels and what not are pronounced differently than in the English language.

have fun - you'll be amazed watching them grow up. At first, they may mix up the two languages (which is adorable too) but when they get it straight - its so cool to have a bilingual child!
 
I have heard that babies and toddlers are completely able to realize the difference between languages and are not confused. Such children's speech may be delayed some, but overall, pediatricians in general are for it, because once they speak, they do both. It is important to be consistent. If your wife speaks Russian, she should exclusively speak Russian to the child, and you should exclusively use English. Some families that have bilingual parents, may choose to use one language upstairs and the other downstairs. Believe me, children get it. I have a friend whose daughter is 28 months old, she is completely bilingual and translates between her parents, when her mom doesn't know a particular word in Spanish, she asks, "mommy, do you need a dictionary?" in Spanish! Of course, your child will develop a preference, and it isn't just about the language, but it is about the culture.
BTW, are you adopting a toddler? And the child already speaks one language and not the other?
 
needinformation said:
I have heard that babies and toddlers are completely able to realize the difference between languages and are not confused. Such children's speech may be delayed some, but overall, pediatricians in general are for it, because once they speak, they do both. It is important to be consistent. If your wife speaks Russian, she should exclusively speak Russian to the child, and you should exclusively use English. Some families that have bilingual parents, may choose to use one language upstairs and the other downstairs. Believe me, children get it. I have a friend whose daughter is 28 months old, she is completely bilingual and translates between her parents, when her mom doesn't know a particular word in Spanish, she asks, "mommy, do you need a dictionary?" in Spanish! Of course, your child will develop a preference, and it isn't just about the language, but it is about the culture.
BTW, are you adopting a toddler? And the child already speaks one language and not the other?


Oh good, at least someone will tell me what my wife is saying :laugh: :laugh:
 
Solideliquid said:
There is a little debate going on in my little family. We are going to have a child soon (2-3 yrs), I want the child to be exposed to english only. While my wife wants the child to learn english, and russian.

So here's the question, is it overload for parents to introduce two or more languages to the developing infant? Should we focus on one language, and let him/her decide to pick up other languages in high school?


Thanks!
I actually looked this up during my pediatric neurology rotation as a medical student. The research shows that children are not language delayed at early exposure to bilingual homes.

However, the reason I was curious about this was because virtually every language delay case I saw in the clinic (I saw about 50), was from a home where there was an abundance of another language (usually Spanish).

From personal experience, I know plenty of people now that are fluent in two or more languages and speak them well. However, if you're picky, they do tend to make significantly more grammatical errors in English. This is even more evident for some reason in their writing - or use of formal language without slang.

It seems that it's one of those things the people inherently 'know.' Sort of like us telling parents that sugar doen't cause hyperactivity, or that chocolate doesn't give zits. In these examples, it's hard to say that a million observations can't be wrong. Is it possible that the study parameters aren't sensitive enough to pick up the effect?

Now that bilingualism is a politically charged issue also, science will be more encumbered in getting to the truth.

I'm nowhere near my teenage years, but I'll bet you $1000 that if I eat a Hershey bar, I'll get a zit to make me pay.
 
Anasazi23 said:
I'm nowhere near my teenage years, but I'll bet you $1000 that if I eat a Hershey bar, I'll get a zit to make me pay.


Aint that the truth? Last night I had a few pieces of chocolate and this morning I had a small zit on my chin. I was like, "couldn't be...?" :/


lol
 
Anasazi23 said:
I actually looked this up during my pediatric neurology rotation as a medical student. The research shows that children are not language delayed at early exposure to bilingual homes.

However, the reason I was curious about this was because virtually every language delay case I saw in the clinic (I saw about 50), was from a home where there was an abundance of another language (usually Spanish).

From personal experience, I know plenty of people now that are fluent in two or more languages and speak them well. However, if you're picky, they do tend to make significantly more grammatical errors in English. This is even more evident for some reason in their writing - or use of formal language without slang.

It seems that it's one of those things the people inherently 'know.' Sort of like us telling parents that sugar doen't cause hyperactivity, or that chocolate doesn't give zits. In these examples, it's hard to say that a million observations can't be wrong. Is it possible that the study parameters aren't sensitive enough to pick up the effect?

Now that bilingualism is a politically charged issue also, science will be more encumbered in getting to the truth.

I'm nowhere near my teenage years, but I'll bet you $1000 that if I eat a Hershey bar, I'll get a zit to make me pay.


I agree Sazi, that althogh research may not show it, it really is the case, they do tend to vocalize a bit later. This is also seen in 2nd and 3rd children, when they don't NEED to vocalize so quickly since siblings are often giving them things without them needing to ask for it.

Its all in being a parent I suppose 🙂 But the children I've seen that were speech delayed, usually came from bilingual houses as well, although in my area it wasn't spanish - it was polish (btw, the delay wasn't that significant, about 3-6 mos on average, which may be sig to a concerned parent!)
 
I actually do think the research shows this, where I learn, there are a couple of developmental psychologists who have spoken about the research on the matter, they mentioned there is some sort of delay. I'm too lazy to ask them or look it up. But in the long run it goes away.
 
Psyclops said:
I actually do think the research shows this, where I learn, there are a couple of developmental psychologists who have spoken about the research on the matter, they mentioned there is some sort of delay. I'm too lazy to ask them or look it up. But in the long run it goes away.

And I think you would have to balance that against the long term benefits of being bilingual for life! If we were a bilingual household, I would strongly encourage it.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
And I think you would have to balance that against the long term benefits of being bilingual for life! If we were a bilingual household, I would strongly encourage it.
👍

And thanks for clarifying Psyclops!
 
Thanks for the input everyone!

:luck:
 
This is a great post. I have a personal interest b/c my husband is Swedish, so we've been discussing how to handle the whole "bilingual" issue when the time comes. My main concern is consistency. My husband has been in the U.S. for 13 years, and only speaks Swedish when he visits, or on the phone. Plus, I don't speak a lick of Swedish (how have I not managed to fit that in during my last 3 yrs of med school?!!) and so, obviously, English is spoken in the home. Anyone have any experience/stories of difficulty making the transition to one parent speaking only their native language to the child? (I just have visions of my future children speaking Swanglish!) 🙂
 
Solideliquid said:
There is a little debate going on in my little family. We are going to have a child soon (2-3 yrs), I want the child to be exposed to english only. While my wife wants the child to learn english, and russian.

So here's the question, is it overload for parents to introduce two or more languages to the developing infant? Should we focus on one language, and let him/her decide to pick up other languages in high school?


Thanks!

I think you are really limiting your child's future by restricting the number of languages he/she should learn. 👎 Infants and toddlers have minds like sponges ! As you probably know, a great part of the neural wiring in the brain occurs in the first years of life. Kids constantly amaze me with their rapid learning skills. Don't underestimate them !

I don't think a developing infant will feel any sort of "overload" by learning more languages. The earlier they learn, the better ! It's a lot harder to learn a new language later in life . From a personal standpoint, I can tell you that being bilingual has opened the world to me in many ways because learning another language enables you to understand other cultures and interact with them on a social/business level. None of the friends I have who are multilingual, have experienced any sort of confusion or "overload", especially given that they learned many languages concurrently in both the home environment and our school system.

Don't deny the world to your child! The more languages they know, the greater opportunities they will have. The world is becoming more of a global village than in previous generations because of all of the recent high technology. In order to compete in the world of tomorrow, the more languages an individual knows , the better ! 👍
 
I don't want people to misunderstand me. My wife and I are more convinced of the advantages to exposing our child (future child) to multiple languages during infancy and beyond.

I wanted to get your input on the effect on the mind of an infant to exposure to multiple languages at the same time and if said effect is overall detrimental.

EDIT: I wanted to get the Peds view on this also, but DrMom closed the thread 🙁
 
Solideliquid said:
I don't want people to misunderstand me. My wife and I are more convinced of the advantages to exposing our child (future child) to multiple languages during infancy and beyond.

I wanted to get your input on the effect on the mind of an infant to exposure to multiple languages at the same time and if said effect is overall detrimental.

EDIT: I wanted to get the Peds view on this also, but DrMom closed the thread 🙁

I've had a bunch of friends go through this. The best approach seems to have been to have one parent speak to the child in one language, and the other parent speak the other... but, I've seen this run into trouble when one parent (Mother who's a medicine resident) is away from the kid much more than the other (Father who's a social worker), then the kid obviously gets more exposure to one language than the other. As has been mentioned previously, I think any noticeable delay is only observable when the sample is limited to one language... they might know a little less English, but when taked together with the other language, their total learning is likely greater.
 
Doc Samson said:
I've had a bunch of friends go through this. The best approach seems to have been to have one parent speak to the child in one language, and the other parent speak the other... but, I've seen this run into trouble when one parent (Mother who's a medicine resident) is away from the kid much more than the other (Father who's a social worker), then the kid obviously gets more exposure to one language than the other. As has been mentioned previously, I think any noticeable delay is only observable when the sample is limited to one language... they might know a little less English, but when taked together with the other language, their total learning is likely greater.

Studies have shown that children who are exposed to more languages as well as music education (eg. "The Mozart Effect" - a term coined by Alfred A. Tomatis for the alleged increase in brain development that occurs in children under age 3 when they listen to the music of Mozart.) , have greater cognitive abilities than their monolingual peers.

Children who have had early language learning derive many abilities from it including:improved overall school performance ,superior problem-solving skills and more creativity.
 
Solid, its cute to see your avatar next to mine 😀 I bought a new car today - chrysler town adn country. Its nice.
 
Anasazi23 said:
And you complain about the rx-7?

j/k


eh, at least you own yours, I have 26K to pay off, after putting down 8K (at least they payed off that damn trailblazer) 😳 Its NICE, CN has a DVD player in the back 🙂
 
Poety said:
eh, at least you own yours, I have 26K to pay off, after putting down 8K (at least they payed off that damn trailblazer) 😳 Its NICE, CN has a DVD player in the back 🙂

Well good luck with it.

I sold the rx years ago, btw. It was fun while it lasted. Sold it to a guy from Puerto Rico, sight unseen. Had it shipped there.

I wonder if he put triple blade wipers on it?
 
Poety said:
Solid, its cute to see your avatar next to mine 😀 I bought a new car today - chrysler town adn country. Its nice.

Poety, I have an awesome idea for you. Remove the letters t- and -ry from the decal on the rear door of your new town and country! 👍 👍
your friends will love it.
 
Poety said:
Solid, its cute to see your avatar next to mine 😀 I bought a new car today - chrysler town adn country. Its nice.


wow wow congrats!
 
Poety said:
Solid, its cute to see your avatar next to mine 😀 I bought a new car today - chrysler town adn country. Its nice.

This from the one who mocked my Windstar!!!!
You're nuthin' but a stroller pushin', latte sippin', minivan drivin', SOCCER MOM!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
OldPsychDoc said:
This from the one who mocked my Windstar!!!!
You're nuthin' but a stroller pushin', latte sippin', minivan drivin', SOCCER MOM!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


*runs to the nearest nuclear fallout shelter*
 
:laugh:
Everyone's a jokester aren't they? :laugh: Whats really bad are the polo shirts with the 3/4 shorts I wear - and how we ALL have town and country's parked in the driveway - welcome to freaky suburbia :scared:

TRIATHLON: I don't get it own and count? I'm not hip I guess 😛

OPD: I admit it I admit it, CN finally broke me down and I let go of the last bit of youthful singleness I had inside me .... got the minivan 🙄

Sazi: WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING NOW? DO TELL!!!!

Solid: you are SO GOING TO BE GOING MY WAY in about 2 years :meanie: we can compare our mini's after your bilingual baby is born 😉
 
Poety said:
Sazi: WHAT ARE YOU DRIVING NOW? DO TELL!!!!

Car = BMW 325xi
photo.jpg


And of course, the HOG (Harley Davidson Sportster 1200 custom)
harleysignature.jpg
 
Poety said:
:laugh:

TRIATHLON: I don't get it own and count? I'm not hip I guess 😛

I guess its a money thing. My uncle drives one and did this to his and its funny because he is a businessman of sorts. That's all.
BTW I drove a windstar until we sold it and bought a BIG FORD ECONOLINE conversion van.
ITS AWESOME!!!!!! Especially for races. 😀
 
Triathlon said:
I guess its a money thing. My uncle drives one and did this to his and its funny because he is a businessman of sorts. That's all.
BTW I drove a windstar until we sold it and bought a BIG FORD ECONOLINE conversion van.
ITS AWESOME!!!!!! Especially for races. 😀


OMG, you're that creepy guy in the econoline?
 
Poety said:
OMG, you're that creepy guy in the econoline?
:laugh: I know, I was just talking to one of my buddies about that. The fat man with a beard and way too much stuff on the dash board, like empty cans of skoal and big mac wrappers.
Ours is a little better than that. We have a bike rack and fill it (the van) with kids (quite comfortably I might add). I have always been motivated by function over fashion. Although I am probably the only person in America under 30 driving one.
My last race we took seven bikes with us and all our gear and we had space to spare. Plus we watched Napolean Dynamite on the DVD (13" screen). 👍 👍
 
Oh its the nice econoline, with seats? :laugh:

Sazi that car is too nice for a resident 😉
 
Anasazi23 said:
I got a good deal
😉


whats your payment? and don't lie. 🙂
 
As a car afficionado, that makes me more than a little jealous. I take it there was ridick down payment?
 
Psyclops said:
As a car afficionado, that makes me more than a little jealous. I take it there was ridick down payment?

Money down, trade-in, and Russian connections got me far.
Even though I'm Irish/Polish.
🙂

I still want the new Hemi Challenger when I graduate though. That'll be my present to myself.
😎
standard.jpg
 
Anasazi23 said:
Money down, trade-in, and Russian connections got me far.
Even though I'm Irish/Polish.
🙂

I still want the new Hemi Challenger when I graduate though. That'll be my present to myself.
😎
standard.jpg


That's HOT!
 
How did a discussion about bilingual households end up about cars? I love tangents! 🙂
Anyway, my husband doesn't speak anything other than English. Our child's speech is slightly delayed, I think, but our pediatrician is not concerned. He clearly understands both languages, but speaking both is hard for him, as the second language in our house is a very tonal one, and is nothing like English. Moreover, it is unclear if this slight speech delay is also due to the fact he is a boy... (this can be a thread of its own!)
I have high hopes though.
As for consistency, I exclusively speak to him in the other language, but my husband and I speak to each other in English. My Chinese is getting better.
A funny story: I wanted to tell my child a 'secret', but the word for secret in mandarin sounds like 'Mimi', the name of his favorite teacher at school... this conversation did not go on as I had wanted to- because then he just wanted to talk about his teacher Mimi. 😉
 
needinformation said:
How did a discussion about bilingual households end up about cars? I love tangents! 🙂
Anyway, my husband doesn't speak anything other than English. Our child's speech is slightly delayed, I think, but our pediatrician is not concerned. He clearly understands both languages, but speaking both is hard for him, as the second language in our house is a very tonal one, and is nothing like English. Moreover, it is unclear if this slight speech delay is also due to the fact he is a boy... (this can be a thread of its own!)
I have high hopes though.
As for consistency, I exclusively speak to him in the other language, but my husband and I speak to each other in English. My Chinese is getting better.
A funny story: I wanted to tell my child a 'secret', but the word for secret in mandarin sounds like 'Mimi', the name of his favorite teacher at school... this conversation did not go on as I had wanted to- because then he just wanted to talk about his teacher Mimi. 😉


Thats a cute story 🙂 😀
 
Solideliquid said:
There is a little debate going on in my little family. We are going to have a child soon (2-3 yrs), I want the child to be exposed to english only. While my wife wants the child to learn english, and russian.

So here's the question, is it overload for parents to introduce two or more languages to the developing infant? Should we focus on one language, and let him/her decide to pick up other languages in high school?


Thanks!

solid....i did a full research project on this in college when i took psycholinguistics....babies can easily learn and decipher two languages and learn BOTH languages at the same rate (no delay) that a child learning only one language learns that language. you and your wife should teach the baby both languages, it won't hinder it's development linguistically but rather enrich it.....on a more personal note, my mother is fluent in Danish and my father in Spanish yet they chose to only teach my siblings and me English.....25+ years later i'm still bitter about it 😡
 
drbon said:
on a more personal note, my mother is fluent in Danish and my father in Spanish yet they chose to only teach my siblings and me English.....25+ years later i'm still bitter about it 😡
I think it's pretty difficult to teach a child another language if only one parent in the household speaks it. The kid may understand simple sentences, but in order to really become fluent he needs to hear adults speaking to each other on a daily basis.

Actually I know many families in which the parents spoke a foreign language exclusively to each other, and yet the children are barely proficient in it. Their parents speak to them in the foreign language, but the children reply in English.

A child will invariably pick up the language spoken by his peers fluently. A language spoken exclusively by his parents, he will learn only with effort (learning is most effective with frequent travel back to the country where the language is spoken). A language spoken by only one parent, he will learn only inadequately (again, unless he frequently travels to a country or community where the language is spoken).

Bottom line: Kids should be exposed to non-dominant languages as early and as frequently as possible. They will pick up the dominant language of the country where they live no matter what, but a non-dominant language is difficult to transmit.

I'm fluent in a language that is native only to my father, but the only reason I was able to pick up the language at a high level is because both parents put a lot of effort into it. My mom learned the language as an adult, so we were able to use it in the home; and as children we traveled back to my dad's country almost every year, typically stayed there for weeks at a time, and lived there for a year once when my dad was on sabbatical. In addition, my dad spent a lot of time teaching me to read and write in his language when I was small. I think the chances for a kid to pick up a language spoken by only one parent with any degree of fluency are slim to none. 🙁
 
tr said:
I think it's pretty difficult to teach a child another language if only one parent in the household speaks it. The kid may understand simple sentences, but in order to really become fluent he needs to hear adults speaking to each other on a daily basis.

Actually I know many families in which the parents spoke a foreign language exclusively to each other, and yet the children are barely proficient in it. Their parents speak to them in the foreign language, but the children reply in English.

A child will invariably pick up the language spoken by his peers fluently. A language spoken exclusively by his parents, he will learn only with effort (learning is most effective with frequent travel back to the country where the language is spoken). A language spoken by only one parent, he will learn only inadequately (again, unless he frequently travels to a country or community where the language is spoken).

Bottom line: Kids should be exposed to non-dominant languages as early and as frequently as possible. They will pick up the dominant language of the country where they live no matter what, but a non-dominant language is difficult to transmit.

I'm fluent in a language that is native only to my father, but the only reason I was able to pick up the language at a high level is because both parents put a lot of effort into it. My mom learned the language as an adult, so we were able to use it in the home; and as children we traveled back to my dad's country almost every year, typically stayed there for weeks at a time, and lived there for a year once when my dad was on sabbatical. In addition, my dad spent a lot of time teaching me to read and write in his language when I was small. I think the chances for a kid to pick up a language spoken by only one parent with any degree of fluency are slim to none. 🙁

I completely disagree, I've met many people that speak spanish fluently just because one parent spoke to them consistently in that language growing up while the other spoke english. Unless you're talkig chinese or another difficult language (meaning the very different pronunciations and sound projections) its really not that hard for kids to pick up.

I also have a neighbor that spoke to their son in albanian, while the mother spoke nothing but english - the child spoke both but was delayed. Also, there was a friend I knew with parents from Russia and he spoke both fluently, as did his child (their grandchild) with one parent speaking Russian and the other english (his wife didn't speak Russian).
 
Poety said:
I completely disagree, I've met many people that speak spanish fluently just because one parent spoke to them consistently in that language growing up while the other spoke english.
Spanish is the only language that I've noticed is consistently picked up by 2nd and even 3rd-gens. I think that's mostly because there are large Spanish-speaking communities here, so children get exposed to the language outside the home. This is the most important factor IMHO - again, kids will pick up the dominant language in their community, regardless of what their parents speak.

In addition, Spanish is probably the world's easiest language to learn. I only started learning it around age 12-13, I have never lived in a Spanish-speaking country, and yet people routinely confuse me for a native speaker (as long as we are only engaging in rudimentary conversation).

Unless you're talkig chinese or another difficult language (meaning the very different pronunciations and sound projections) its really not that hard for kids to pick up.
Well, it's possible that my other language is one of the more difficult ones for an English speaker to pick up (it's modern Greek; probably harder than a Romance language but easier than an Asian language).

I also have a neighbor that spoke to their son in albanian, while the mother spoke nothing but english - the child spoke both but was delayed.
Okay, but is he fluent? Or is he just able to produce your basic day-to-day sentences? Do you speak enough Albanian to be able to judge?

Also, there was a friend I knew with parents from Russia and he spoke both fluently, as did his child (their grandchild) with one parent speaking Russian and the other english (his wife didn't speak Russian).
Again, I would be curious to know whether your Russian is good enough to be able to judge this. I know several 2nd-gens raised by parents who spoke Russian at home, and while I can't really tell how well they speak, on close inquiry they tell me that their use of the language is fairly basic.

With my 2nd-gen Greek friends, I can absolutely tell exactly how well they speak, and it is typically rather poorly unless they have spent a lot of time in Greece (even if both parents speak Greek at home). I know a lot of these people, and there is not a single one who learned the language well without frequent travel to Greece.
 
Well I don't speak Russian or Albanian, I'm going by what their parents said 😳 They seemed to be communicating quite well with their english speaking parent and the other siblings (who spoke Albanian) the little boy, definitely would speak fluently in Russian to his grandparents, I saw it, but I don't know "what he said' I figure if he was that good at 5 y.o., he knew it though ya know?

I know there is something to the dialect too - like you were saying about the asian languages, etc. I saw a special on language development wayyyy back and it was explaining how important it is for babies learn to recognize certain sounds in order to speak a language. I can't remember the exact examples, but they were sounds that you or I (unless we spoke that language) wouldn't be able to pick up unless we learned them very early on. If the babies weren't exposed to it early enough, they could never be fluent since they wouldn't be able to recognize key notes in the that particular language.

Isn't that fascinating?
 
I'm really tired and haven't read the replies so please excuse me if this is redundant, but anyway.

I'm not medically trained yet, but I have a LOT of experience with people who have grown up knowing multiple languages. When I was very young, I knew Spanish and English thanks to my Mexican neighbours. Almost as soon as my family moved, I forgot everything. I wish my parents had made an effort to continue my exposure. Many of my friends and others I have met grew up with up to five languages (due to their families' jobs). They all have amazing careers and are brilliant in all of the subjects they try. They also are more culturally aware than almost anyone else I know. A friend of mine too two years to feel fully confident speaking English in the UK, while her son sounded like a native in under six months.

From this I can say I honestly believe it would be a shame not to expose kids to other languages if given the opportunity. They have an easier time learning than us adults and will be grateful for it when they are older.
 
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