Quantifying the impact of school prestige on match outcomes

[indecisiveconvention]

“Does where I go to school matter?” SDN has rehashed this debate since time immemorial, but I wanted to run some data to put numbers to words in a way that is hopefully helpful to people considering schools. I’m sharing to shed light on some schools and residency programs, especially since HMS and Columbia pulling out of rankings might trigger a cascade that (hopefully) does away with USNWR for good.

Since IM is the most applied-to residency, I looked at the percentage of residents at the Big 4 IM programs (BWH, MGH, UCSF, JHH) coming from schools that have long been considered to be somewhere in the top 5/10/15/20. I split schools into these categories based on a mix of USNWR rankings and SDN lore, but just for this analysis. I suggest another numbers-driven list at the end.

Top 5: HMS, JHU, Penn, Stanford, UCSF
Top 10: Columbia, Duke, WashU, Yale
Top 15: Cornell, Icahn, Mayo, NYU, Pitt, UW, Vandy
Top 20: Michigan, Northwestern, Pritzker, UCLA, UCSD

BWH
% MD PhD = 23%
% MD + other degree = 24%
10 most represented schools: HMS (22%), Penn/Stanford, Yale, Cornell, Columbia, WashU/UCSF, JHU, UW
*slashes represent ties*

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 38%
- Top 10 = 52%
- Top 15 = 62%
- Top 20 = 67%

MGH
% MD PhD = 20%
% MD + other degree = 17%
10 most represented schools: HMS (19%), Penn/Yale, Duke, WashU/UCSF/Cornell/UW/UCLA, NYU

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 30%
- Top 10 = 45%
- Top 15 = 56%
- Top 20 = 60%

UCSF
10 most represented schools: UCSF (25%), UCLA, Stanford/HMS, UW, Michigan, Cornell/Pritzker, WashU/Columbia/JHU

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 38%
- Top 10 = 45%
- Top 15 = 55%
- Top 20 = 71% (!)

• This jump between top 15 and top 20, much greater than at other residencies, was driven by a large number of UCLA students (top 20)

JHH
% MD PhD = 10%
% MD + other degree = 21%
10 most represented schools: JHU (15%), Pitt, Penn/Duke, Yale, HMS/Vandy, WashU/Stanford/Cornell

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 23%
- Top 10 = 31%
- Top 15 = 40%
- Top 20 = 41%

Take-aways: where you go to school matters.

1. In order of selectivity: BWH > UCSF > MGH > JHU

• The majority of spots at BWH, MGH, UCSF are filled by students from top 20 schools (mostly by top 10 schools [45-50% of spots])
• Relatively more students from non-top 20 schools match at JHH

2. The marginal benefit of going to a top school decreases linearly

• At BWH, for example, 38% of residents went to a top 5 school
  • Going to a top 10 school added 14 percentage points (38% + 14% = 52%)
  • Going to a top 15 school added 10 percentage points (52% + 10% = 62%)
  • Going to a top 20 school added 5 percentage points (62% + 5% = 67%)
• The exception was UCSF, but this was driven by a large number of residents having gone to UCLA (a top 20)

3. The saying that BWH loves non-traditional residents is true. A whopping 47% of its residents have a separate degree (including PhD) in addition to the MD.

4. NYU and Mayo match almost no one to these residencies, throwing more weight behind the view that USNWR ranking ≠ actual prestige.

5. Of the Big 4 residencies, UCSF has the highest inbreeding, with 25% of UCSF IM residents having gone to UCSF

• This is followed by Harvard (20.4% of spots at BWH and MGH combined were for HMS students)
• Last is JHH (15% of its residents went to JHU)

Overall, the schools that were most frequently represented among these residencies are:

HMS, UCSF, JHU, Penn, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, Cornell, Duke, WashU

• The elite residencies that students at HMS, UCSF, and JHU matched at were their respective home residency and, much less frequently, the other elite residencies considered in this analysis
• Schools that most frequently and consistently send students to these elite, non-home residencies:
  • Penn: most to MGH, fewest to UCSF
  • Yale: most to MGH, fewest to UCSF
  • WashU: most to MGH, fewest to JHU
  • Duke: most to MGH/JHH, fewest to BWH/UCSF
  • Stanford: most to BWH, fewest to MGH/JHH
  • Cornell: most to BWH, fewest to JHH
• UCLA made this list because it sent students almost exclusively to UCSF but not to the other residencies

There you have it folks. These are the schools that most consistently place students into the top IM residencies. Not a great correlation with USNWR.

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[IlDestriero]

BREAKING - - - Elite research heavy powerhouse medical schools send their academically minded superstar medical students on to elite research heavy powerhouse residency programs.
Story at 11.

 

[Med Ed]

“Does where I go to school matter?” SDN has rehashed this debate since time immemorial, but I wanted to run some data to put numbers to words in a way that is hopefully helpful to people considering schools. I’m sharing to shed light on some schools and residency programs, especially since HMS and Columbia pulling out of rankings might trigger a cascade that (hopefully) does away with USNWR for good.

How does your analysis tease out causation from correlation? The problem with this approach has always been self-selection among premeds and medical students.

Your title says you are quantifying the impact of school prestige, but despite the play with numbers your conclusion appears qualitative.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

“Does where I go to school matter?” SDN has rehashed this debate since time immemorial, but I wanted to run some data to put numbers to words in a way that is hopefully helpful to people considering schools. I’m sharing to shed light on some schools and residency programs, especially since HMS and Columbia pulling out of rankings might trigger a cascade that (hopefully) does away with USNWR for good.

Since IM is the most applied-to residency, I looked at the percentage of residents at the Big 4 IM programs (BWH, MGH, UCSF, JHH) coming from schools that have long been considered to be somewhere in the top 5/10/15/20. I split schools into these categories based on a mix of USNWR rankings and SDN lore, but just for this analysis. I suggest another numbers-driven list at the end.

Top 5: HMS, JHU, Penn, Stanford, UCSF
Top 10: Columbia, Duke, WashU, Yale
Top 15: Cornell, Icahn, Mayo, NYU, Pitt, UW, Vandy
Top 20: Michigan, Northwestern, Pritzker, UCLA, UCSD

BWH
% MD PhD = 23%
% MD + other degree = 24%
10 most represented schools: HMS (22%), Penn/Stanford, Yale, Cornell, Columbia, WashU/UCSF, JHU, UW
*slashes represent ties*

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 38%
- Top 10 = 52%
- Top 15 = 62%
- Top 20 = 67%

MGH
% MD PhD = 20%
% MD + other degree = 17%
10 most represented schools: HMS (19%), Penn/Yale, Duke, WashU/UCSF/Cornell/UW/UCLA, NYU

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 30%
- Top 10 = 45%
- Top 15 = 56%
- Top 20 = 60%

UCSF
10 most represented schools: UCSF (25%), UCLA, Stanford/HMS, UW, Michigan, Cornell/Pritzker, WashU/Columbia/JHU

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 38%
- Top 10 = 45%
- Top 15 = 55%
- Top 20 = 71% (!)

• This jump between top 15 and top 20, much greater than at other residencies, was driven by a large number of UCLA students (top 20)

JHH
% MD PhD = 10%
% MD + other degree = 21%
10 most represented schools: JHU (15%), Pitt, Penn/Duke, Yale, HMS/Vandy, WashU/Stanford/Cornell

Percent of residents coming from:
- Top 5 = 23%
- Top 10 = 31%
- Top 15 = 40%
- Top 20 = 41%

Take-aways: where you go to school matters.

1. In order of selectivity: BWH > UCSF > MGH > JHU

• The majority of spots at BWH, MGH, UCSF are filled by students from top 20 schools (mostly by top 10 schools [45-50% of spots])
• Relatively more students from non-top 20 schools match at JHH

2. The marginal benefit of going to a top school decreases linearly

• At BWH, for example, 38% of residents went to a top 5 school
  • Going to a top 10 school added 14 percentage points (38% + 14% = 52%)
  • Going to a top 15 school added 10 percentage points (52% + 10% = 62%)
  • Going to a top 20 school added 5 percentage points (62% + 5% = 67%)
• The exception was UCSF, but this was driven by a large number of residents having gone to UCLA (a top 20)

3. The saying that BWH loves non-traditional residents is true. A whopping 47% of its residents have a separate degree (including PhD) in addition to the MD.

4. NYU and Mayo match almost no one to these residencies, throwing more weight behind the view that USNWR ranking ≠ actual prestige.

5. Of the Big 4 residencies, UCSF has the highest inbreeding, with 25% of UCSF IM residents having gone to UCSF

• This is followed by Harvard (20.4% of spots at BWH and MGH combined were for HMS students)
• Last is JHH (15% of its residents went to JHU)

Overall, the schools that were most frequently represented among these residencies are:

HMS, UCSF, JHU, Penn, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, Cornell, Duke, WashU

• The elite residencies that students at HMS, UCSF, and JHU matched at were their respective home residency and, much less frequently, the other elite residencies considered in this analysis
• Schools that most frequently and consistently send students to these elite, non-home residencies:
  • Penn: most to MGH, fewest to UCSF
  • Yale: most to MGH, fewest to UCSF
  • WashU: most to MGH, fewest to JHU
  • Duke: most to MGH/JHH, fewest to BWH/UCSF
  • Stanford: most to BWH, fewest to MGH/JHH
  • Cornell: most to BWH, fewest to JHH
• UCLA made this list because it sent students almost exclusively to UCSF but not to the other residencies

There you have it folks. These are the schools that most consistently place students into the top IM residencies. Not a great correlation with USNWR.

The easiness to match into a top IM from a T5 is quite mind boggling. Most T5 graduates aiming at Medicine have a high floor around the level of NYP and Penn and Yale. I think outside T10, the prestige boost drops precipitously.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

There has to be more to life than this