Question about research

[big_Z]

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I recently started a position doing clinical related research about 8 hours a week in the Emergency Dept of a large hospital. I screen patients with an online web service and if they match our criteria I get them enrolled in our studies and pull data from that.

MD's and DO's use this data to complete their studies. I probably wont get my name on the final publication as an author. Its possible over my course of time being there but it might not happen.

My question is how would this look overall to adcoms and how does it compare vs other students research positions? Is not getting an authoring nod on an article make this experience less than one that would give me the authoring chance? This is my first research related gig so I was wondering if its beneficial or if I should look for something else. I do have a full time job and classes though.

Slightly bummed at the prospect of maybe not getting a chance to author the publication when I'll be doing literally all the work except taking the pen to the paper so to speak. Maybe you guys can change my mind.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[mcloaf]

Any research exposure is certainly better than none. Assuming you can talk articulately about what you learned from the experience then it will be a great part of your application. It's doubly nice since you seem to be getting patient exposure as an aspect of the experience. Publications are great, but they're not a baseline expectation of applicants.

All that being said, based on what you wrote here I'm not sure why you feel you're entitled to authorship. Did you design the studies? Will you be analyzing the data?

 

[big_Z]

Any research exposure is certainly better than none. Assuming you can talk articulately about what you learned from the experience then it will be a great part of your application. It's doubly nice since you seem to be getting patient exposure as an aspect of the experience. Publications are great, but they're not a baseline expectation of applicants.

All that being said, based on what you wrote here I'm not sure why you feel you're entitled to authorship. Did you design the studies? Will you be analyzing the data?

Great points and insight.

Although I did not design the study, I'm not asking for first author on the study. So I consider that moot but I'm aware that is a big time commitment and effort.

I don't have the oppurtunity to analyze the data. And given my degree and the fact that I've collected all the data and other grunt work running the algorithims and interpreting the results is something I'd love to get the oppurtunity to do, but likely will not.

So I feel a little short changed. This is a volunteer position to clarify.

I'd like the chance to earn the authorship through working (even if for free) as I'm already doing the leg work.

 

[Medic741]

Great points and insight.

Although I did not design the study, I'm not asking for first author on the study. So I consider that moot but I'm aware that is a big time commitment and effort.

I don't have the oppurtunity to analyze the data. And given my degree and the fact that I've collected all the data and other grunt work running the algorithims and interpreting the results is something I'd love to get the oppurtunity to do, but likely will not.

So I feel a little short changed. This is a volunteer position to clarify.

I'd like the chance to earn the authorship through working (even if for free) as I'm already doing the leg work.

Authorship is for contributing to the intellectual content of the study, not doing the scut work. Want to get into research in medical school? Come up with some study designs, call faculty that do research and find a faculty member willing to work with you.

Start thinking about funding sources.

If you want to do research, doing scut is just a necessary step. Stick with it!

 

[deleted831695]

It depends a lot on the PI(s). Some are extremely chill and will dish out co-authorships to any undergrad doing grunt work in the lab. Others refuse even if the undergrad was responsible for managing a project and contributed to writing that part of the paper. It's a mix of how much effort you put into research + luck.

Try reaching out to whomever is managing the project. At the very least, see if there are any conferences at your school or nationwide where you can have abstracts/presentations regarding your work.

 

[Goro]

On the surface, this doesn't seem all too impressive. Do you know what hypothesis is being tested? What the methods are that being used to assess the research populations? The difference between the controls and the test populations? Are you doing data mining? Numbers crunching? From your description, it seems like you're doing secretarial work, at best.

For this, you deserve an acknowledgement in the paper, not co-authorship, which as mentioned above, is for making an actual intellectual contribution.

I recently started a position doing clinical related research about 8 hours a week in the Emergency Dept of a large hospital. I screen patients with an online web service and if they match our criteria I get them enrolled in our studies and pull data from that.

MD's and DO's use this data to complete their studies. I probably wont get my name on the final publication as an author. Its possible over my course of time being there but it might not happen.

My question is how would this look overall to adcoms and how does it compare vs other students research positions? Is not getting an authoring nod on an article make this experience less than one that would give me the authoring chance? This is my first research related gig so I was wondering if its beneficial or if I should look for something else. I do have a full time job and classes though.

Slightly bummed at the prospect of maybe not getting a chance to author the publication when I'll be doing literally all the work except taking the pen to the paper so to speak. Maybe you guys can change my mind.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Medic741]

Was thinking of this post today -- something to remember is the topic of entitlement -- be happy to have this experience and keep in mind that you're not entitled to more recognition than an acknowledgement -- and realistically this may come out as a general "thank you to all the data assistants involved in this effort"

Gotta work up the ladder to earn a seat at the table.

Authorship for your role would be disingenuous

 

[big_Z]

Authorship is for contributing to the intellectual content of the study, not doing the scut work. Want to get into research in medical school? Come up with some study designs, call faculty that do research and find a faculty member willing to work with you.

Start thinking about funding sources.

If you want to do research, doing scut is just a necessary step. Stick with it!

Encouraging, thank you. Just hoping this isn't a time sink and I shouldn't be looking for better oppurtunities.

It depends a lot on the PI(s). Some are extremely chill and will dish out co-authorships to any undergrad doing grunt work in the lab. Others refuse even if the undergrad was responsible for managing a project and contributed to writing that part of the paper. It's a mix of how much effort you put into research + luck.

Try reaching out to whomever is managing the project. At the very least, see if there are any conferences at your school or nationwide where you can have abstracts/presentations regarding your work.

The more I think and talk about it the more im inclined to agree with you. Thank you

On the surface, this doesn't seem all too impressive. Do you know what hypothesis is being tested? What the methods are that being used to assess the research populations? The difference between the controls and the test populations? Are you doing data mining? Numbers crunching? From your description, it seems like you're doing secretarial work, at best.

For this, you deserve an acknowledgement in the paper, not co-authorship, which as mentioned above, is for making an actual intellectual contribution.

This is what I was afraid of. Yes I know all those answers but only because I thoroughly read the studies and have access to the plans to carry out the studies. Essentially all im doing right now is finding the relevant patients, getting consent, filling out relative assesments with them, documenting everything, and turning the data over to the PI. May or may not get the chance to do more, which is what I want.

Thanks for the input, especially from you.

Was thinking of this post today -- something to remember is the topic of entitlement -- be happy to have this experience and keep in mind that you're not entitled to more recognition than an acknowledgement -- and realistically this may come out as a general "thank you to all the data assistants involved in this effort"

Gotta work up the ladder to earn a seat at the table.

Authorship for your role would be disingenuous

I fully understand this. Respectfully, I've worked in the airforce since I was 17 1/2. I'm no stranger to scrubbing toilets and then lint rolling the floors for 16 hours. I'll work my ass off if the compensations fair. Or even if it gets me a shot at what I need.

I want the chance to do the work for the authorship under a mentor. I dont know if i'll get that chance here and if i don't then im not sure if this experience would help me on my journey to medical school?

None the less thanks for having my best interest in mind. We have a similar mindset tbh