Question about retaking...

[Jeff3614]

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I've searched a fair amount of material, both in books and online and I can't seem to nail down an answer for my situation.

I took all the required science for medical school by chance or what have you and scored very average in all the classes, Bs and Cs. (Assume about a BCMP of 2.75.) I did average in the rest of my classes and finished with a 2.7 GPA, this is including the science. The key here is that this was seven to eight years ago and only accounts for two years of undergrad. I even had a few classes at community college prior to this with a 3.0, all computer classes.

Fast forward to today where I'm finishing my degree in a liberal arts major with a 3.7 GPA, while working full time as a network engineer. When it's all said and done and all of my classes are averaged together I'll have a 3.0 GPA, which is good enough to get into a very good post bac program where I'm at.

My problem and question consists of the following:

1.) It's been eight years since I had the required science classes and it seems to make more sense to do a post bac, if not to retake the classes for the benefit of proving myself (I know they'll be averaged but appear seperate), but to use them as a study tool for the MCAT.

2.) Technically this is retaking classes I've already had, which I know is frowned upon by medical schools.

3.) Pursuing a masters programs seems like a waste, especially since I don't remember what I need to know for the MCAT or the entry level science needed for Med school admission.

There you have it.

I am genuinly at a loss of what to do here. I was going to contact a medical school to get some advice, but I figured bouncing it in here might be a good thing to do first.

Thanks much.

 

[iamhot2]

well, then you can just buy the textbooks and study them by yourself. that will save u some money. but u will need to take mcat, that is for sure.

 

[Jeff3614]

Huh?

 

[pem8erly]

I've searched a fair amount of material, both in books and online and I can't seem to nail down an answer for my situation.

I took all the required science for medical school by chance or what have you and scored very average in all the classes, Bs and Cs. (Assume about a BCMP of 2.75.) I did average in the rest of my classes and finished with a 2.7 GPA, this is including the science. The key here is that this was seven to eight years ago and only accounts for two years of undergrad. I even had a few classes at community college prior to this with a 3.0, all computer classes.

Fast forward to today where I'm finishing my degree in a liberal arts major with a 3.7 GPA, while working full time as a network engineer. When it's all said and done and all of my classes are averaged together I'll have a 3.0 GPA, which is good enough to get into a very good post bac program where I'm at.

My problem and question consists of the following:

1.) It's been eight years since I had the required science classes and it seems to make more sense to do a post bac, if not to retake the classes for the benefit of proving myself (I know they'll be averaged but appear seperate), but to use them as a study tool for the MCAT.

2.) Technically this is retaking classes I've already had, which I know is frowned upon by medical schools.

3.) Pursuing a masters programs seems like a waste, especially since I don't remember what I need to know for the MCAT or the entry level science needed for Med school admission.

There you have it.

I am genuinly at a loss of what to do here. I was going to contact a medical school to get some advice, but I figured bouncing it in here might be a good thing to do first.

Thanks much.

I think you've answered your own question in the post of what your should do. Since it has been a few years since taking the pre-requisite classes and you don't remember much from those classes that's where you need to start. I don't think retaking classes would be looked down upon by medical schools since the last time you took those classes were many years ago. I believe some schools even suggest retaking certain classes due to changes and innovations that may have developed in recent years.

You definitely need the knowledge for the MCAT. (Some applicants have taken the MCAT lacking a particular pre-req like orgo or physics and done well but I think that's a big risk to take) Have you picked up a review yet? I would stop by the bookstore and just flip through it and see if any of it makes sense. If a great majority of it looks foreign to you then retaking the basics is good idea.

I would look up some different post-bac programs. I believe on the AAMC website (http://www.aamc.org) there is a section dedicated to post-bac programs. The programs vary in starting off with basic classes or higher level classes or basic classes with the option of rolling into a master's program if you desire.

Not to give you too much to think about, but you also need to look for opportunities to volunteer in healthcare.

 

[HippocratesX]

I disagree with the previous poster about starting from scratch again. I just recently spoke to an admissions director to a medical school and she told me specifically that it is frowned upon to retake classes (especially to increase your grade in them). She said that its not impressive if you have retaken a class and even gotten an A+ the second time around. She said what would be more impressive is doing a masters program or some sort of structured post-bac program whre you are only taking upper level (grad school level) science classes like physiology, biochemistry, histology, molecular bio/genetics, etc.

I understand your dilemma, however, that you must take the MCAT and don't remember much about the pre-reqs. But I would strongly suggest you review this material and start studying for the MCAT early (as in now...if you want to take it in April). If you set up a schedule for urself...like review the materials from an MCAT review book and subsequent textbooks for maybe 2 months. then practice taking MCAT tests. The MCAT is more about test-taking skills and basic science concepts. I think it would be a serious waste of time and money to retake all your pre-reqs, unless you have retained absolutely nothing! And understand that if you DO decide to retake them, then you also have the added pressure of needing all A's on them, because if it looks bad to retake classes in the first place, then how bad does it look to retake them and NOT do well the second time around also? Plus, like i said before, you are not putting your plans/life on hold for 1-2 years while you take the pre-reqs in order to take the MCAT. So, I would suggest going to the aamc site and print out the detailed list of topics and sup-topics you need to learn for the MCAT under each science: bio, phys, chem, orgo and then get some old textbooks along with a review book from Princeton Review/Kaplan, whomever...and start going through it on your own. What you understand, you review quickly, what you don't understand - you can concentrate on that. Anyway, good luck

 

[pem8erly]

When I talked to an advisor about my situation, I was given very similar advice: don't retake classes, because the grade will not help you. Take upper level classes in relevant areas, especially classes that are similar to med school classes.

Remember that if you want a review of the material, you can always audit some intro classes. Only take them for a grade if you need the grade.

I agree that admissions committees question retaking of classes and they especially look for stellar grades. But the reason I gave the advice I was because this OP is several years out of school and did not work/study in a field that would have allowed continual exposure to the type of information I feel that he would need to do well on the MCAT. If the pre-requisites were completed more recently then I would highly suggest taking upper level classes and pursue a master's but even the OP has admitted not knowing the basic knowledge.

Obviously everyone has different approaches to learning. Some people can pick up books and teach themselves whereas other need more guidance. But if you need to retake classes to relearn material that has not been retained and can clearly explain why you did so in essays and/or interviews I don't see why one should not.

 

[HippocratesX]

Pem8erly,


You're right - people do have different modes of learning, some needing more guidance and others capable of teaching themselves through books. But, I guess the thing I was trying to stress about the MCAT, is that its alot more then just having a great foundation in those pre-reqs. Even if he had gotten all A's in the pre-reqs the first time around, it does not necessarily constitute a high score on the MCAT. So, if this was his primary interest in reviewing that material (to do well on the MCAT), I think that he's running a marathon by taking all those classes over again, just to train for a 5K run. Certainly, it can only HELP him to re-take those classes again as far as knowledge goes, but if he puts a little discipline and strategy into it, he could very well learn the BASICS of what he really needs for the MCAT, without having to cover all those non-MCAT associated topics that will indeed be covered in those classes. Then, he can concentrate his efforts more on what is undeniably the most important aspect of doing well on the MCAT, which is practice, practice, practice (tests). I would bet that if he simply reviewed the material at a bare minimum and used the time that he would have otherwise used to take those pre-reqs over again (1-2yrs)....if he used this time to take practice tests and increase his verbal/reading comprehension, etc....that he would MORE THAN LIKELY score higher on the MCAT, then by just finishing those classes and studying for 2-3 months and taking the MCAT. For some tests, like the USMLE, this is probably not a good strategy because of the voluminous amount of information that will be forgotten if you try to study hard for 1-2 years by reviewing/test-taking...but for the MCAT, more practice can only benefit you. I guess the whole thing boils down to time and how much of it you have....

 

[Jeff3614]

Thanks for input, it's always good to get another pair of eyes on the situation, especially when it treads into so much grey area.

It's a confusing situation really. I took all the med school science without even knowing that it was a requirement, it just so happened it was a part of the prereqs for my chem major, which I never finished. Seven years ago I never even thought about medical school as an option and as is evidenced by my first two years of undergrad grades I never thought too much about my science grades either. In hindsight, I kinda wish I didn't take any science or had the money to finish school.

The way I have my timeline setup is that I'll graduate with an english major and a 3.7 GPA after the coming spring semester. The goal would be to get into Northwestern's Post Bac program, which I'm told is very difficult. The program can be completed by next spring and it would prep me to take the April MCAT. It's pretty ambitious and it costs 15k to do it.

Here is where the grey area lies. Technically my grades are showing a significant upward trend and hopefully I'd be able to contiune that in a difficlut and widely known post bac program. My problem with this is, as was pointed out, I'd be retaking the same classes I had 7/8 years ago and where would med schools draw the line in the sand and say, 'yes, those classes are far enough into the past that he did the right thing or he took the easy way out, nice try.' I considered a masters program approach, however, the one masters program that would be worth it is the one at Finch medical, which is an applied physiology program. It takes just as long as the post bac and is highly competitive. I haven't researched the extent of this possibilty yet.

I don't have an issue with self study, in fact, I've become a great test taker because my industry demands it. (Cisco testing) I have many of my old text books, but I'm simply loathe to try and pour over everything myself when I know a post bac could do the same thing and probably better prepare me for taking the MCAT. My background is such that my science grades would make it difficult to get into a science related masters program, but yet med schools would frown on the post bac retake scenario. It's the rock and a hard place thing.

It's a gamble either way, I supposed it depends on where you want to hedge your bets.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[X.O.]

I think your best bet is to ask the schools that youre interested in and get a take in what they value you more for a person in your situation. Its better to get it from the horse's mouth before embarking on something that might not pan out for you.

Personally, I would have scratched my eyes out if i had to redo all the core prerequisites and a good MCAT review book is all that you need for the exam to do well. G'luck.

 

[HippocratesX]

Jeff,

don't sell yourself short when it comes to being admitted into grad programs like a hard science M.S. or even a postbacc program. Alot of them SAY that they have a minimum sci/cum gpa of something like 2.8-3.0, but if you score well on the GRE (which some schools will take in lieu of the MCAT for posbac/grad programs), you might have a decent shot at admission. Also, for those grad programs that are not specifically SMP's like Finch, G'town, Drexel, most of them will take you even if your gpa is below the cutoff. They'll just accept you on a probationary period for the first semester. if you do well, they'll take you off that probation and u just continue on, not having lost a thing on your part. Also, I wouldn't necessarily think that all postbaccs will "do the same thing" for you as you studying for the MCAT on your own. Most of the postbaccs that have MCAT training seminars/classes are those that require you to simultaneously re-take those pre-reqs, and if you're re-taking pre-reqs, then you're not taking upper level science courses. But as the previous poster said, I would get in contact with the specific medical schools you are interested in, make connections with the director of admissions and get their advice. That way, whatever it is they tell you to do, you can hold them to their advice when you apply there in the future. Most of them will also remember that you met with them and followed their advice. So, basically, no matter what anybody tells you in here (myself included), I would take the word of the admissions directors first and foremost.

 

[RoseLee]

Just wanted to add, that a couple of med schools (in CA and NY) who I spoke with DID advise me to re-take the prereqs... Many of them will only accept them if they were taken in the last seven or so years... (eek..mine were taken in late 80's/early 90's so that makes them 12-14 years old! Much has changed...especially in Cell bio!)

So...I retook even though I did well/ok in them many years ago. It's definitely helped with MCAT studying, and I must admit...there wasn't much I remembered...Most of these "re-take" courses seemed like brand new material.

I was also advised to, in addition to the basic prereqs, take upper division and graduate courses to further prove my acumen for the sciences. I've now finished most of the "retakes" and am now taking all upper division and some grad courses to complement my GPA.

Roselee