Question about shadowing

[onehandedred]

Hello everyone,

I know you guys have had this question a billion times, but you all have been so helpful to me that I had to come back!

I was originally going to volunteer/shadow at the Division of Lab Animal Medicine at my school over spring break and into next quarter, but unfortunately it fell apart with the doctor telling me to contact him again in six months. I've tried other vets in this division with no success. So, I'm out on the hunt in the Los Angeles area for shadowing experiences.

I've called various hospitals and they've all told me that they don't accept (pre-vet) volunteers. I've read a bunch of threads saying that you should dress nice and bring in your resume, but I could only talk to office managers who told me that they don't take in volunteers.

Should I just keep going in? Or should I call ahead to make sure they accept volunteers? Feels awkward just barging in unsolicited to me and it's very difficult to talk to an actual vet. Or can any Los Angeles people recommend some places?

Thank you all for your help.

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[GrizzlyMaya3]

Are you asking them for volunteer opportunities or for shadowing? They are seen as (and really actually are) two very different things. Volunteering is free hands-on labor, which comes with liability issues, and it also suggests more of a long-term commitment. Shadowing, on the other hand, consists of you just following a doctor around and getting a feel for the career and the hospital itself. I'd ask if I could shadow for a day, at first, then you can make arrangements with the doctor about coming back in in the future. I don't think I've ever been turned down by asking for a single-day shadowing opportunity (a lot of vets were quite flattered!), but maybe I've just been that lucky, who knows. Regardless, it was never something they wanted to see a resume for; it was kept low-key, low-commitment, and low-liability that way. In fact, there's an equine hospital I've shadowed a couple of times; last time I just called, introduced myself and my intentions/goals and asked the receptionist if I could watch a surgery one day. She talked with a doctor, checked the schedule, and asked me which surgery I wanted to see. I was watching a splint bone removal the very next week.

If you're looking for actual volunteering, I'd go more towards the humane societies/rescues. They're in need of those constantly, whereas a business operation like a hospital has all their bases covered with actual employees, leaving little to no room for volunteering.

 

[Felixor90]

Does your city have a large overpopulation of cats and/or dogs? If so, contact your local shelter(s) and ask about volunteering for them and work your way up. I started as a volunteer at my local shelter, where I met a fellow SDNer and she got me to volunteer for a spay event in which dozens of vets volunteered their time. It was a great way to get in touch with them personally and have them see that I'm dedicated and a good worker. I ended up getting several invitations to shadow, and when I applied for a few jobs later that year, it turned out that one of the vets had seen me at the spay event and hired me as a vet tech as soon as she remembered me. I also got to shadow the vets that worked at the shelter and I'm sure I could have landed a job through their colleagues had I not gotten hired before that.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

Does your city have a large overpopulation of cats and/or dogs? .

Dude, it's Los Angeles...

I was originally going to volunteer/shadow at the Division of Lab Animal Medicine at my school over spring break and into next quarter, but unfortunately it fell apart with the doctor telling me to contact him again in six months. I've tried other vets in this division with no success. So, I'm out on the hunt in the Los Angeles area for shadowing experiences.

Why exactly did the shadowing thing fall apart? Not saying you did anything wrong, but it seems suspect that he would say to get with him in six months. I am wondering if maybe he wasn't happy with something. If that's the case, you're going to run into a lot of closed doors in that division.

If you haven't already done this, you might consider asking for a meeting with him and getting some feedback. It can be a tough conversation to have, but you can't fix what you don't know about. Ask him directly if there was anything you could have done differently, and listen to his feedback without being defensive or making excuses. If he wasn't happy, you have an excellent opportunity to learn. Ask him to be as specific as possible about what he wasn't happy with, and how you can correct it. Make sure he understands that you're serious about this as your career, and that you want to learn. If you did inadvertently upset him, having this kind of conversation might persuade him to give you another chance.

If he says he was happy with you, but there were other circumstances in the way, then ask him to put you in touch with some of his colleagues and to give you a recommendation. Ask if he will be willing to be a reference for you outside of his division.

As far as shadowing... you will have the best luck talking directly to the vet. I found that privately owned practices were much more open to shadowing than corporate owned practices. Many of the corporate practices have strict policies around that, and concerns about liability, and the veterinarians aren't the decision makers.

 

[GrizzlyMaya3]

To elaborate on something Gemgrrrl said at the end, from my perspective: while, yes, vets will be more sympathetic than will receptionists (typically), please don't call an animal hospital and try to circumnavigate the receptionist by saying you want to speak to the doctor. As a veterinary receptionist, I can tell you it will not work. We are there to block unnecessary calls making it to the doctor, and I can just picture the doctors' faces if I interrupted their schedules for a call like that. Do your best with the receptionist and hope for the best. Be curteous, professional, and flexible. Offer for them (receptionist or vet) to call you back or offer to email them instead, etc.

 

[Minnerbelle]

To elaborate on something Gemgrrrl said at the end, from my perspective: while, yes, vets will be more sympathetic than will receptionists (typically), please don't call an animal hospital and try to circumnavigate the receptionist by saying you want to speak to the doctor. As a veterinary receptionist, I can tell you it will not work. We are there to block unnecessary calls making it to the doctor, and I can just picture the doctors' faces if I interrupted their schedules for a call like that. Do your best with the receptionist and hope for the best. Be curteous, professional, and flexible. Offer for them (receptionist or vet) to call you back or offer to email them instead, etc.

Yeah... If I got a random call from a non-client because "they need to talk to a doctor and wouldn't say why," I'd be pissed the call even got to me because I have a wall of receptionists and techs that should prevent me from talking to anyone that I don't actually need to.

I don't mind having shadows at all, but all shadowing requests go through the practice manager at my hospital I think. But I'm also an associate at a multi doctor practice, so things might be easier with a 1-2 doctor practice if you can talk to the owner.

Also, lab animal shadowing is harder to get going than others simply because you need health clearance as well as possible iacuc approval to be in the facility depending on what you're doing. Even as a vet student, it took a lot of prior bureaucratic work upfront to make it happen. So just know that it's a ton of work for the facility to let you in, which could be a part of the issue in things falling through.

 

[Cephal0pod]

At the SA clinic I shadow at, I can't "volunteer" there for liability reasons but I can shadow. After having shadowed there for a while, though, the vet and techs have started to have me help them with some things here and there. At another clinic I also come in to "shadow", but they regularly have me assist them during appointments and in interacting with clients. With other shadowing experiences, I have strictly shadowed and done very little. What you will be allowed to do will vary from clinic to clinic, as well as how long you've been shadowing there/how long they have known you. My advice would be don't expect to do much and don't be surprised if they don't have you do much, but be ready and willing to if they do ask you to do something.

Also, for every single shadowing experience I have had, I have simply called the office and said something to the tune of "Hi, my name is Cephal0pod, I am a pre-veterinary student at University of Cephal0pods and I am really interested in learning about and getting some experience in [niche of veterinary medicine that clinic deals with]. Do you allow students to shadow at your clinic?" I have only been told no once, and that was because it was an ambulatory LA practice and they didn't have room for me in the truck Side note: it was actually the vet that I spoke with, and oh my land she was so kind and so encouraging. Made a mental note to be like her someday. Shout-out to all the vets out there that are gracious with us pre-vets.

My opinion is that you don't really need to do the whole stop-by-looking-professional-and-carrying-a-resume thing for shadowing experiences-- just call the clinic, see what they say, and go from there.

 

[that redhead]

Make sure you emphasize shadowing, not volunteering. They're very different things due to liability issues.

 

[WillowLeaf]

"Hi, my name is Cephal0pod, I am a pre-veterinary student at a School of Cephal0pods and I am really interested in learning about and getting some experience in cephalopod medicine."

Everyone has covered what I would say as real advice. Mainly: shadowing and volunteering are two different things and you'll likely have better luck asking to shadow.

 

[sorasea]

Had the same problem when I lived in LA -- asked about shadowing opportunities, and everyone said no due to liability issues. Granted, I didn't visit that many clinics, as I didn't have a car and was limited by biking distance/bus routes (within Pasadena). It might be an annoying SoCal thing. Then I went home to NC for a summer and found four different clinics that would let me shadow, which included lots of hands-on opportunities.

I would suggest the shelter route, weaseling your way into volunteering with shelter vets (vaccine clinics, spay/neuter days, etc.) and working your way up from there. Although a very dedicated wildlife/exotics-focused friend of mine volunteered at Wildlife Waystation for years and still wasn't allowed to shadow the zoo vets there...