Question about the pre-interview meal

[valid username]

My first interview is in a few weeks. The night before is dinner with one resident and the program coordinator. Am i supposed to offer to take the check, or is it okay to pay only my part? I will do whichever I am supposed to, I just want to know what is the proper etiquette.

I've already done one stupid thing with them...when I first called an left a message I reversed two numbers on my phone. As I was hanging up I realized what I had done and called back right away. Obviously that's no big deal but I don't want to do something stupid at every interaction.

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[MudPhudHopeful]

The pre-interview meal should be paid for by the program.

 

[J ROD]

If you have to pay for your meal, then cancel the interview. And if you have to pay for their meals, then you are crazy...lol

 

[SpongeBob DoctorPants]

Meals are part of the program's recruiting budget. Everyone attending is getting a free dinner. It's an opportunity for you to get to know each other in a relatively low-stress environment.

Sent from my SM-N920T using SDN mobile

 

[valid username]

Okay, you know you have offered to pay for a meal that you were pretty sure you didn't have to oay for. But you knew you had to offer.

If this never happened to you, then you "ain't from the south!"

 

[J ROD]

Okay, you know you have offered to pay for a meal that you were pretty sure you didn't have to oay for. But you knew you had to offer.

If this never happened to you, then you "ain't from the south!"

Yeah, if I want "teh sax"

 

[NontradCA]

Okay, you know you have offered to pay for a meal that you were pretty sure you didn't have to oay for. But you knew you had to offer.

If this never happened to you, then you "ain't from the south!"

Well actually, they're inviting you out to dinner not the other way around. There should be no expectation at all. I think offering to pay for a preinterview dinner would make you look like a weirdo or socially inept.

 

[Evidence Based]

This isn't a first date, this is them recruiting you for a job. Definitely say thank you, but do not attempt to split the check.

 

[Crayola227]

I think I went to a few interviews where one paid, and quite a few have you pay for your own alcoholic beverages should you wish to order them- some schools/states have a policy that they can't use funds to pay for alcohol. Or some might only pay for the first. However the program encouraged residents and applicants to order them if they so wished, so just because they don't pay for it, doesn't mean you can't. They know it helps loosen people up in an otherwise nervous scenario.

Some residents would order and pay for a pitcher of beer in these instances.

Just don't get too crazy with the booze. It happens more than you think.

No matter how tempting, don't go home with any residents.

Also, some programs I went to I think would have you pay part of your dinner. Sucky.

If they do pay, just don't abuse it and order a $30 filet mignon or something silly.

Assume they will pay, any other arrangement and they will let you know. Although, I think some it was an unwelcome surprise at the establishment. No matter what, I suggest not going to these events starving or without cash and card. I always had at least granola bars and such in my carry on luggage.

One place only had sucky fries and I would have starved otherwise.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

They MAY say that their institution won't allow them to pay for alcohol, in which case you may expect to have to pay for your own adult beverage, should you choose to order one, but they'll most likely let you know in a matter-of-fact way, and you shouldn't worry about hidden messages or subtext. Don't overdo it, though, whomever is paying.

 

[nexus73]

I suggest don't drink at the pre interview dinner

 

[Erratafromthetext]

I suggest don't drink at the pre interview dinner

Do you mind expanding on this thought?

 

[Candidate2017]

Also, some programs I went to I think would have you pay part of your dinner. Sucky.

If they do pay, just don't abuse it and order a $30 filet mignon or something silly.

One place only had sucky fries and I would have starved otherwise.

WTF? Many of my programs had dinner at restaurants where entrees started around $25-$35.

 

[Armadillos]

I suggest don't drink at the pre interview dinner

Seems like strange advice. I would do whatever you usually do if you go out to dinner on a worknight. Be yourself, you want to go somewhere you fit in naturally. Obviously don't get drunk.

 

[valid username]

I think If they do pay, just don't abuse it and order a $30 filet mignon or something silly.

I'm a vegetarian. Nearly impossible to order big LOL

 

[ryerica22]

It's complimentary. Just say thank you.

 

[Soccer171983]

most every residency and fellowship interview I have been to as an interviewee and interviewer the program generally pays. Whether its itemized and goes through GME or kind of just covered by the program director its always usually paid. Generally don't be seen as the snob that runs the bill up ridiculously but enjoy your meal. If everyone orders steak its not unreasonable for you to do that but if everyone is ordering other things and lobster/steak on the menu avoid it. I did have one circumstance where I was offered if I wanted any beer or mixed drinks as most of the residents/faculty had something to drink alcohol wise. I felt it was a pretty sharp way to see how I would handle the response...I basically milked a beer for an hour and when offered again I just said I had to drive which was completely reasonable LOL. Short of that I would say you would be pretty safe following what everyone else does but dont get carried away. One interview had a premeeting at an attendings house on the golf course and everyone was drinking as this was informal and not a necessary event in the formal interview process, just an optional meet and great the night before. Common sense will dictate. If you think it might not be wise then probably dont do it. With alcohol, your always safe using the driving excuse if you don't want to drink. I have never felt forced to drink by anyone during interview process.

 

[MedMan80]

Definitely part of the program's budget, you shouldn't have to pay. Anecdotally one of my markers of a financial stability of a program was the ability to pay for interview dinners (probably costs thousands to pay for every applicant/residents), this is not the rule by any means however.

 

[psychattending]

My first interview is in a few weeks. The night before is dinner with one resident and the program coordinator. Am i supposed to offer to take the check, or is it okay to pay only my part? I will do whichever I am supposed to, I just want to know what is the proper etiquette.

I've already done one stupid thing with them...when I first called an left a message I reversed two numbers on my phone. As I was hanging up I realized what I had done and called back right away. Obviously that's no big deal but I don't want to do something stupid at every interaction.

From my perspective as a PD.

Ideally the program should let you know when they initially invite you to dinner, the rules under which you are accepting. Maybe I am old school but if I say I am inviting you to dinner then that means I am paying. If I say something instead like "some of the residents are going out that night and they were wondering if you wanted to join them" then I would take that to mean that you are paying for yourself. You could also look to the resident who is "hosting" the dinner for his/her guidance the night of the dinner. He/she should be telling you who is paying if the program has not already told you. If the program is paying then I would say that you let the residents order first and their choices should make it obvious what is allowable. If all the residents are ordering the $10 special, then you should not be ordering the $50 special. Similarly if the residents are ordering alcohol, then it would be appropriate for you to order alcohol. If you tend to become disinhibited when drinking, then I would say that you should exercise good judgement and not drink. If you are visiting a program where alcohol is not appropriate, I would expect that the residents would tell you such (either verbally or non-verbally).

 

[nexus73]

Seems like strange advice. I would do whatever you usually do if you go out to dinner on a worknight. Be yourself, you want to go somewhere you fit in naturally. Obviously don't get drunk.

Does it really seem strange? I mean, do whatever you want. But it's fairly high stakes, interviewing for a residency spot, so why drink at all and potentially risk saying or doing something that turns off the residents/faculty at the dinner.

 

[Crayola227]

Does it really seem strange? I mean, do whatever you want. But it's fairly high stakes, interviewing for a residency spot, so why drink at all and potentially risk saying or doing something that turns off the residents/faculty at the dinner.

it's social, that's why

I wrote a post years ago that covered how it can actually be awkward not to

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

it's social, that's why

I wrote a post years ago that covered how it can actually be awkward not to

Agreed. I can see situations like that happening. I am of the faction that if I am capable of raising mini-humans, I can enjoy a beer with my future colleagues in a responsible way. I did this on all 10 of my interview pre-dinners and they all went very well.

Coming from a city with a bustling craft brewery scene and my German heritage, if residents couldnt relax and enjoy an adult beverage, it wasn’t going to be a place I planned on training. We do have to work with each other all year after all. Of course it also needs to be stated that if drinking alcohol isn’t something you do, then that is completely acceptable and you shouldn’t worry about that.

 

[clausewitz2]

I think if everyone else was having a beer or a glass of wine and you were not, I would assume you are very religious or a friend of Bill W. Not that either of those things is a problem or means you wouldn't be a good candidate, but I think it is worth being cognizant of what you might unintentionally be putting out there.

 

[Celexa]

I think if everyone else was having a beer or a glass of wine and you were not, I would assume you are very religious or a friend of Bill W. Not that either of those things is a problem or means you wouldn't be a good candidate, but I think it is worth being cognizant of what you might unintentionally be putting out there.

I drink socially. But I am not a morning person and have found even small amounts of alcohol disturb my sleep quality. I was going to avoid drinking at residency dinners because of those reasons. Do you really assume every person who doesn't drink is doing it for either religious reasons or has addiction issues (we can make a trifecta of it assume all non-drinking women are pregnant, too....)? Those are pretty heavy assumptions to make without evidence. I can order a drink and then barely touch it if that projects a better image but it feels, quite frankly, ridiculous.

 

[Armadillos]

I drink socially. But I am not a morning person and have found even small amounts of alcohol disturb my sleep quality. I was going to avoid drinking at residency dinners because of those reasons. Do you really assume every person who doesn't drink is doing it for either religious reasons or has addiction issues (we can make a trifecta of it assume all non-drinking women are pregnant, too....)? Those are pretty heavy assumptions to make without evidence. I can order a drink and then barely touch it if that projects a better image but it feels, quite frankly, ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, but is probably true.

That being said, I think it's best to be yourself (whether that means drinking or choosing not to drink). If your a US grad psych is a buyers market, you don't want to "fake your way" into a program that wouldn't have wanted you if you didn't order a beer (or vice versa).

 

[clausewitz2]

It is ridiculous, but is probably true.

That being said, I think it's best to be yourself (whether that means drinking or choosing not to drink). If your a US grad psych is a buyers market, you don't want to "fake your way" into a program that wouldn't have wanted you if you didn't order a beer (or vice versa).

This is the correct answer. As I get further and further from the anxiety of the Match I am understanding that fit is everything for not having an utterly miserable time in residency. It is just too long and intense to do at a place where you are going to be uncomfortable every moment you're at work.

 

[hamstergang]

I think if everyone else was having a beer or a glass of wine and you were not, I would assume you are very religious or a friend of Bill W.

I don't drink at all for my own personal reasons unrelated to the above, but those are the assumptions people always make. It takes a bit of explaining but no one seems to care in the end. I agree that being yourself and not worrying about it is the best course.

 

[valid username]

It's amazing how much pressure there can be over a stupid meal and the bevarages. I only have 3 interviews, I can't make any mistakes. I rarely drink. But I don't mind drinking. I am so "take it or leave it" on alcohol, but it is so much less important than matching. I have only a 26% to match. How much can I reallh tilt things in my favor.

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

It's amazing how much pressure there can be over a stupid meal and the bevarages. I only have 3 interviews, I can't make any mistakes. I rarely drink. But I don't mind drinking. I am so "take it or leave it" on alcohol, but it is so much less important than matching. I have only a 26% to match. How much can I reallh tilt things in my favor.

I would say there is very little pressure. The main goal is to be friendly and kind, don’t say anything to offend someone, and for heavens sake just have some fun!

 

[NickNaylor]

They MAY say that their institution won't allow them to pay for alcohol, in which case you may expect to have to pay for your own adult beverage, should you choose to order one, but they'll most likely let you know in a matter-of-fact way, and you shouldn't worry about hidden messages or subtext. Don't overdo it, though, whomever is paying.

This is how this is addressed at our program. When I was an applicant, I would almost always have a glass of wine with dinner - never got any weird looks or statements about it. As a resident that now attends these dinners, I still have a cocktail or something along with dinner. I just pay for it on my own.