Question for Mormons @ Temple, VCU and everywhere else

[toofshucker]

So, newly or soon to be newly matriculated Mo's, the rumors around here at Temple is that Temple only admitted 2 Mo's this year (compared to over 30 my year). I also heard that VCU has wanted to change its rep as a "Mormon" school and drastically reduced the number of Mormons they admitted. Since I have no real desire (though I don't mind, it is not that I don't like you, I just don't really talk to anyone) in meeting underclassmen and asking them, I thought I would come here. Whats the 411? Upper-class Mo's want to know.

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[airsimon]

I know of a bunch of kids from BYU going to VCU this entering class. But yeah, OHSU tried to pull the "let's not accept mormons" last year as well. After getting tons of complaints and a reduction in alumni money from mormon graduates, OHSU accepted its fair share of LDS kids this year again.

 

[MONKEYBOY]

fair share

 

[puncho]

I know at case this year's incoming number of mormons has declined from like 30-40/70 students to around 5. Didn't know this was happening at other schools as well. What gives?

 

[Hysteria24]

I know of a bunch of kids from BYU going to VCU this entering class. But yeah, OHSU tried to pull the "let's not accept mormons" last year as well. After getting tons of complaints and a reduction in alumni money from mormon graduates, OHSU accepted its fair share of LDS kids this year again.

Wouldn't that be some sort of discrimination and highly illegal? That's like some school saying, "Lets not accept many Asians this cycle."

Not Mormon here, but that's like a lawsuit waiting to happen if it could be proved.

 

[apaul]

Here at maryland its gone down from around a dozen or so per class down to 2 in the last incoming class. The rumor going around is that the admissions office with their recent dean change wants to focus more on accepting people from the east coast so all those BYU folk from UT, AZ, WA, ID aren't being given the chance here. Makes me wonder where all the 300 or so pre-dents from BYU are going. In recent history BYU had like an 80% or so acceptance rate (dont have the exact #'s) but i bet its way lower now.

 

[KOM]

Wouldn't that be some sort of discrimination and highly illegal? That's like some school saying, "Lets not accept many Asians this cycle."

Not Mormon here, but that's like a lawsuit waiting to happen if it could be proved.

Good question. Though isn't there a big push nowadays for diversity? At least in the work force, I had two jobs where the companies all of a sudden started pushing these programs geared towards "diversity in the workplace."

In the case of dental school hasn't there always been a strong push to obtain a diverse student body?

Isn't there's the idea that these students will then go out and better represent/provide care for the different socio-economic segments of the population?

In such a case, having schools with high percentages of Mormons may not be this kind of diverse representation they're looking for. From a legal standpoint and with these objectives in mind, I'm not sure if a discrimination law suit would be considered valid.

 

[toofshucker]

This is interesting. I thought it was just rumors. I wonder why all of the sudden there is this universal change?

 

[loved]

This is the first time I am hearing about this. It might still be just a rumor. Hope some Mo kids will post here.

 

[airsimon]

Here at maryland its gone down from around a dozen or so per class down to 2 in the last incoming class. The rumor going around is that the admissions office with their recent dean change wants to focus more on accepting people from the east coast so all those BYU folk from UT, AZ, WA, ID aren't being given the chance here. Makes me wonder where all the 300 or so pre-dents from BYU are going. In recent history BYU had like an 80% or so acceptance rate (dont have the exact #'s) but i bet its way lower now.

BYU dental school applicant number has sky-rocketed over the past few years as well. 10 years ago there was a 98% acceptance rate at BYU. Now, that number has dropped significantly. It's right around 50% now. Times sure are getting more competitive.

 

[StL_to_Boston]

I'm Jewish, I'm the only one in my class of 99 people. As far as I know in my school there is only one other Jewish person. I've never asked my school why they didn't admit more Jews....? I was never asked my religion when I applied or when I was admitted. Why would it matter at all what religion someone is when they're admitted to dental school - Jewish, Mormon, or otherwise?

 

[KOM]

I'm Jewish, I'm the only one in my class of 99 people. As far as I know in my school there is only one other Jewish person. I've never asked my school why they didn't admit more Jews....? I was never asked my religion when I applied or when I was admitted. Why would it matter at all what religion someone is when they're admitted to dental school - Jewish, Mormon, or otherwise?

Yep. I guess the only way it would matter is if dental schools were assuming that applicants from BYU were Mormon and decreasing acceptance rates based on that idea alone. Which is obvious discrimination and I bet is 100% false. If there's any truth to the decreasing numbers, it's good because it ensures a broader national representation of this country.

 

[microserf123]

It seems that there are less LDS kids at Case this year. But a lot more Asians though...........

 

[jorUW]

I would much rather give Adcoms more credit than discrimination based on religion. Is it so ridiculous for a given dental school to not want to accept large amounts of students from the same University? I know not every Mormon goes to BYU.... just the good ones (at least that's what my Mormon buddies tell me)

I had heard from a student at OHSU that there had been complaints that there was alleged favoritism toward Mormon applicants as one of their classes had an abnormally large enrollment of Mormon students. Perhaps this is what someone mentioned above.

Who knows... maybe this is a conspiracy of forcing Utah to open up its own Dental school.

 

[browncrack]

I'm not mormon. Just the same, this cannot be a real trend nationwide. There is no shortage of mormons applying all of the time and now there is no shortage of every other category applying as well. I'm told mormons typically have good grades and test scores but maybe whatever else Temple or Case or whereever was looking for last year emphasized different items than emphasized previously. Admissions makes almost no sense to me even on my best days-maybe the irrationality of the admissions process is showing through at Temple. Admission is not a right, guarantee, or entitlement regardless of who is applying.

 

[toofshucker]

I'm Jewish, I'm the only one in my class of 99 people. As far as I know in my school there is only one other Jewish person. I've never asked my school why they didn't admit more Jews....? I was never asked my religion when I applied or when I was admitted. Why would it matter at all what religion someone is when they're admitted to dental school - Jewish, Mormon, or otherwise?

Sorry to be blunt, but this is a dumb analogy. This isn't a Mormon vs. Jew thing.

I just find it strange that a school that previously took large number of Mormons over a long time (10+ years) would suddenly stop. That doesn't happen. The only way that happens is if there is a concerted effort on the part of the admissions committee to do so. THEN I hear rumors that other schools are doing the same. Wouldn't you think that is weird?

This isn't a Mormon or Jew thing, it is a weird thing and I am just curious about it.

 

[toofshucker]

I'm not mormon. Just the same, this cannot be a real trend nationwide. There is no shortage of mormons applying all of the time and now there is no shortage of every other category applying as well. I'm told mormons typically have good grades and test scores but maybe whatever else Temple or Case or whereever was looking for last year emphasized different items than emphasized previously. Admissions makes almost no sense to me even on my best days-maybe the irrationality of the admissions process is showing through at Temple. Admission is not a right, guarantee, or entitlement regardless of who is applying.

I agree with a lot of your post. I do think a large part of admissions is putting everybody's name on a wall and resorting to darts.

That being said, IF this is what is happening, then it is discrimination. I do agree that "admission is not a right, guarantee, or entitlement regardless of who is applying" BUT the applicant has the right to not be discriminated against. I highly doubt that ALL Mormon applicants would suddenly have a HUGE drop in stats, especially when it is getting more competitive to get into dental school. Due to the large number of previous Mormon students, you would expect their stats to go up as well.

Again, I find it interesting that there is such a HUGE drop in Mo's at our school. At the end of the day, I really don't care, all it means for me is less competition when I go back to Utah, but it is an interesting observation that I saw and was wondering if it is true or not, or just hearsay.

 

[atlanta478]

Wouldn't that be some sort of discrimination and highly illegal? That's like some school saying, "Lets not accept many Asians this cycle."

Not Mormon here, but that's like a lawsuit waiting to happen if it could be proved.

It’s not discrimination, it’s today’s reality. I guess, diversity is a concept under which we are trying to include people from diverse background (religion). You could look into undergrad acceptance. If you’ll go by SAT numbers, 60+% of students in the best schools in the country should be Asian kids. This is not a secret to Adcoms that most LDS dental students won’t be practicing in the state that they are getting their education. If you talk to existing dental students from the schools with a good number of LDS students, you’ll hear that most of LDS students help, share information and socialize with each other only.

Schools like Case, some NY/Boston schools and even UCLA that historically had good number in every class, have less BYU students this year than before… but it may change soon (even private schools need the alumni support).

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

At the end of the day, I really don't care, all it means for me is less competition when I go back to Utah, .

It's because of that attitude. Every "MO" I knew at school wanted to go back to Utah, Ariz, or idaho (don't ask why). Maybe dental schools are looking at retaining some students in the state that the school is in and know that there is little chance any of the mormons will stay.

 

[toofshucker]

It's because of that attitude. Every "MO" I knew at school wanted to go back to Utah, Ariz, or idaho (don't ask why). Maybe dental schools are looking at retaining some students in the state that the school is in and know that there is little chance any of the mormons will stay.

That is a legit reason for public schools, but not for private schools. Private schools are there to make money, not keep students in state. A lot of us like to go back to ID, UT, or AZ because, like everybody, you feel comfortable with what you know.

I wonder what will happen with all this...if your reason is the true reason, then maybe Gordon will get his dental school after all.

 

[Squished Rat]

It's because of that attitude. Every "MO" I knew at school wanted to go back to Utah, Ariz, or idaho (don't ask why). Maybe dental schools are looking at retaining some students in the state that the school is in and know that there is little chance any of the mormons will stay.

This will change at some point. There are dentists moving out of UT because of how saturated it is, and I expect the same will happen for AZ and ID someday.

 

[rocknightmare]

at my school the all might VCU -- the # of mormons has decreased i think this year but not signficantly and there are multiple factors from the rumor mills

1) vcu wants to produce VA based dental students -- they incrased their class size to speciffically address this problem from 90 to 100 students.

2) the rumor mill tells me that the mormon graduates do not seem to contribute back to the school (alumni wize) and the dean wants to change that -- again just a rumor

just 2 cents..

 

[StL_to_Boston]

Sorry to be blunt, but this is a dumb analogy. This isn't a Mormon vs. Jew thing.

I just find it strange that a school that previously took large number of Mormons over a long time (10+ years) would suddenly stop. That doesn't happen. The only way that happens is if there is a concerted effort on the part of the admissions committee to do so. THEN I hear rumors that other schools are doing the same. Wouldn't you think that is weird?

This isn't a Mormon or Jew thing, it is a weird thing and I am just curious about it.

I'm not sure what part of my post you took to be a "Mormon vs. Jew thing"... because that wasn't the point of it at all...

The point of it was that a candidate's religion, whether the candidate is Mormon, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, or a fundamentalist suppoter of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it shouldn't matter at all in admissions to dental school.

Maybe it's just getting harder for everyone (Mormon, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, and Pastafarians) to earn one of the coveted spots?

Maybe people from other schools are getting good scores on DAT's and high gpas and becoming more competitive and thereby there is a decrease in the acceptance rate at BYU? I find it incredibly hard to believe that there is some sort of covert, organized movement in dental admissions to decrease the number of admitted Mormons... that seems... sort of silly really...

I voted for a particular candidate for governer when I resided in Massachusetts because I thought he was the best candidate, it had nothing to do with the fact that he happened to also be Mormon. I'm pretty sure admissions officers act similarly when choosing candidates.

 

[Lurchdubious]

Lol. Those crazy Mormons, takin' up everyone's spot at dental school.

I HIGHLY doubt that there's any kind of discrimination going on. At least, I haven't felt any. Our class has 18 or 19 LDS kids, (myself included) out of 100. So far (1 month into classes), everyone gets along together quite well. There are several groups of students that sit together everyday, some LDS, some not. But there is no "unwritten code" that says Thou Shalt not study with people of other faiths. In my experience, most people, regardless of religion, seem to spend the most time with people they have a lot in common with. Lots of people our age like to drink alcohol in social situations. Mormons don't really fit into that category, so of course there is some separation there. Woopty-doo.

Yes, most LDS kids will probably move back West when dental school is over. Why? Probably because that's where their families are. I'll go back West in 4 years for this reason, and because I don't really like the South/East. It's sticky.

The admissions people I spoke with during my interviews like LDS applicants because they're generally older (= more life experience), have families (= commitment/responsibility. ...and only one wife, silly). Oh and they generally smell better. [kidding]

 

[informatique]

After getting tons of complaints and a reduction in alumni money from mormon graduates,

wow, if this is true and if during previous years mormon graduates had a tendency to contribute large sums then i can see why certain schools accept so many students from byu and other mormon schools.

The admissions people I spoke with during my interviews like LDS applicants because they're generally older (= more life experience), have families (= commitment/responsibility. ...and only one wife, silly). Oh and they generally smell better. [kidding]

Do countries under the typical British system of five-years of university out of high school in order to practice dentistry produce incompetent, immature dentists due to the sheer fact that they weren't as old as you, nor had a family and wife during school? Americans just love to waste time...

i remember going to an information meeting at VCU and the dean came in to answer any questions. Someone directly asked if VCU had any ties with BYU/Utah and why there were accepting so many students from that area, and he said that there were no ties and didn't go any further.

If mormon students do tend to contribute more alumni money, then I see how this could come into play during admissions since we can be seen as major cash cows for them.

And for a school that likes to promote a diverse student body, I don't see how having 20-30 white, male, age 24-25, married, speaks Spanish, and is an exact replica of one another on various scales contributes to diversity.

I'm against any form of discrimination if mormon students are facing such issues, but I'm also against any form of favoritism due to the reasons stated above.

 

[stdmufin27]

I have to admit that this thread utterly wasted my time. I'm a "MO" myself and the stuff here is .

 

[ScubaDr2B]

We have about 5 mormons in our class, maybe 8-10 in the third year class, a few more in both the second and first year class. Numbers here are staying about the same. And yes, they do all hang out together, don't really socialize with anyone else, won't share old documents with anyone else etc. They have a gmail account that they can all log into to share information, and won't allow anyone else to have access. I'm not bitter and don't care either way, just sharing my thoughts and giving a one up for schools not lowering acceptance of mormons.

 

[Lurchdubious]

wow, if this is true and if during previous years mormon graduates had a tendency to contribute large sums then i can see why certain schools accept so many students from byu and other mormon schools.



Do countries under the typical British system of five-years of university out of high school in order to practice dentistry produce incompetent, immature dentists due to the sheer fact that they weren't as old as you, nor had a family and wife during school? Americans just love to waste time...

i remember going to an information meeting at VCU and the dean came in to answer any questions. Someone directly asked if VCU had any ties with BYU/Utah and why there were accepting so many students from that area, and he said that there were no ties and didn't go any further.

If mormon students do tend to contribute more alumni money, then I see how this could come into play during admissions since we can be seen as major cash cows for them.

And for a school that likes to promote a diverse student body, I don't see how having 20-30 white, male, age 24-25, married, speaks Spanish, and is an exact replica of one another on various scales contributes to diversity.

I'm against any form of discrimination if mormon students are facing such issues, but I'm also against any form of favoritism due to the reasons stated above.

Wow. This is why I don't frequent SDN as much as I used to.

Oh, and the Rumor which was stated earlier was about LDS alumni NOT donating as much as others. But, feel free to propagate more false rumors concerning "Mormons."

 

[KOM]

How do you all know how many mormon's are in your classes each year? Do you seriously go around taking head counts? Who cares!

If you're so concerned about this, then doesn't that seems to demonstrate discrimination on YOUR part in that you're proposing Mormon's are in some way entitled to those "supposed" previous higher class numbers.

I don't go around asking what everyone's religion is in my class...AND I CERTAINLY don't go to classes above or below me to make counts.

 

[Jaybe]

I am the most fair person in the world. All about equality. Equal opportunity. Free access to welfare. And fair admissions to dental school. Since about 1.6 percent of the US population is Mormon. I guess that means about 1.6% of a given dental class should be Mormon.

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.

 

[Lurchdubious]

I am the most fair person in the world. All about equality. Equal opportunity. Free access to welfare. And fair admissions to dental school. Since about 1.6 percent of the US population is Mormon. I guess that means about 1.6% of a given dental class should be Mormon.

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.

So, in your incredible fairness, since LDS applicants make up more than 1.6% of the total applicant pool, they should be restricted to only making up 1.6% of the pool?

Nice logic.

 

[Squished Rat]

I am the most fair person in the world. All about equality. Equal opportunity. Free access to welfare. And fair admissions to dental school. Since about 1.6 percent of the US population is Mormon. I guess that means about 1.6% of a given dental class should be Mormon.

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.

I'd agree with your last sentence, but the rest is ridiculous. Fair admissions is admissions without regard to race, religion, gender, etc. That's like saying 1% (random made-up statistic) of the population are devil-worshippers so 1% of all dental school classes should be devil worshippers.

 

[Count Orlok]

I'd agree with your last sentence, but the rest is ridiculous. Fair admissions is admissions without regard to race, religion, gender, etc. That's like saying 1% (random made-up statistic) of the population are devil-worshippers so 1% of all dental school classes should be devil worshippers.

it's so lonely being in that 1%.....so, so lonely

 

[KOM]

So, in your incredible fairness, since LDS applicants make up more than 1.6% of the total applicant pool, they should be restricted to only making up 1.6% of the pool?

Nice logic.

Well of course, according to this thread, Mormon's only care about other Mormon's. Therefore Mormon's are only using their money to raise their families and donate to school's so more Mormon's can raise their families.

Why should we give them more than 1.6% of the market when they only care about themselves?

Oh wait...was everything I just read rumors or substantiated fact?

BTW...devil worshipers need their teeth taken care of too. Based on this thread I'd rather have >1.6% of them in dental school as well.

 

[KOM]

it's so lonely being in that 1%.....so, so lonely

Don't worry Orlok...we'll fight the unknown together.Me and You.

 

[btizzels]

I am the most fair person in the world. All about equality. Equal opportunity. Free access to welfare. And fair admissions to dental school. Since about 1.6 percent of the US population is Mormon. I guess that means about 1.6% of a given dental class should be Mormon.

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.

Ok seriously I have tons of Mormon friends, and they are awesome, but since the words of discrimination were tossed around in this thread I would have to say that if you want non discrimination you would have to pay attention to the above numbers/argument. And btw Nova accepted less Mormons this year then in previous classes as well. We have 5-6, and the D2 class has like 20.

btw I think Mormons give Dentistry a good name, as opposed to all those dentists out there that are all about making money.

 

[KOM]

Ok seriously I have tons of Mormon friends, and they are awesome, but since the words of discrimination were tossed around in this thread I would have to say that if you want non discrimination you would have to pay attention to the above numbers/argument. And btw Nova accepted less Mormons this year then in previous classes as well. We have 5-6, and the D2 class has like 20.

btw I think Mormons give Dentistry a good name, as opposed to all those dentists out there that are all about making money.

btizzles - I like you, but think of national representation. Health-care should never be about what's fair or not based on who has the best numbers.

The people who have millions of dollars to spare so their daughter or son can spend 6 months straight, unimpeded, studying for the DAT, free of distractions, of work, are going to have better success in getting their children into the programs they want. Who are these children likely to serve?

You know, 1/4 of this country makes less than 20K per year. With crowns priced over 1K that figure is menacing towards 25% of the people in this country.

We're ALL out here to make money!

In AK, we have an agreement with UW where they take a certain number of medical students from our state. In recent years, the program has taken applicants from AK with less than 26 MCAT scores and 3.5 GPA scores. Is this normally competitive for UW's medical school program? Not at all. Many of these "outliers" are due to the fact that they carry >25% Native Alaskan blood. There's statistics that prove there's greater representation from these people than others that will serve communities much more in need. Not only that, there's obligations that must be paid by these student to these communities.

If normal medical students wanted to go work out in the Alaskan bush then this "favoritism" wouldn't be an issue.

You can't blame those living in rural areas such as Alaska giving up on health care in as much as you can blame them for selling you the land to build a pipeline for oil consumption.

 

[eson]

Yeah, being a former Mormon myself, I'd say that statement "not all about making money" is definitely not true. Been ripped off by several Mormon friends, mission companions, etc., etc. Not a problem though - it's all rationalized in the psyche as "business"! They're all in it for the money... especially if they're a dentist!

 

[btizzels]

btizzles - I like you, but think of national representation. Health-care should never be about what's fair or not based on who has the best numbers.

The people who have millions of dollars to spare so their daughter or son can spend 6 months straight, unimpeded, studying for the DAT, free of distractions, of work, are going to have better success in getting their children into the programs they want. Who are these children likely to serve?

You know, 1/4 of this country makes less than 20K per year. With crowns priced over 1K that figure is menacing towards 25% of the people in this country.

We're ALL out here to make money!

In AK, we have an agreement with UW where they take a certain number of medical students from our state. In recent years, the program has taken applicants from AK with less than 26 MCAT scores and 3.5 GPA scores. Is this normally competitive for UW's medical school program? Not at all. Many of these "outliers" are due to the fact that they carry >25% Native Alaskan blood. There's statistics that prove there's greater representation from these people than others that will serve communities much more in need. Not only that, there's obligations that must be paid by these student to these communities.

If normal medical students wanted to go work out in the Alaskan bush then this "favoritism" wouldn't be an issue.

You can't blame those living in rural areas such as Alaska giving up on health care in as much as you can blame them for selling you the land to build a pipeline for oil consumption.

I think you misunderstood me, I was simply stating that even if there is a decline in LDS people in this year, LDS are still well represented. And as i stated I think as a good stereotype LDS dentists put a good face on Dentistry.

And as far as making money, we all have to make money, but I would never compromise my work/ patients well being just to make money. I am referring to shady dentists, and not the average joe.

As for me I and the first one in my family to go to Undergrad, and obviously first to go to Professional school. I had to work, and have paid for everything. My parents don't know anybody, and sure don't have money to let me stay at home and study for the DATs. But I don't let it bother me that other people may have had an "easier" route to get to the same place as me. I take pride in where I have come from, and I honestly believe I am a better person for doing things the "harder" way.

As far as, getting into the underepresented minority thing. I am not touching that, I agree that the system isn't perfect, by any means.

 

[KOM]

Yeah, being a former Mormon myself, I'd say that statement "not all about making money" is definitely not true. Been ripped off by several Mormon friends, mission companions, etc., etc. Not a problem though - it's all rationalized in the psyche as "business"! They're all in it for the money... especially if they're a dentist!

Sorry for your grievances. This is not the norm for dentists, whether you go to a Mormon dentist, Muslim dentist, or a Christian dentist.

I assure you we're not in it all for the money nor would a good and properly educated dentist deliberately attempt to deceive you in any way "for the money."

You've been misinformed.

 

[stdmufin27]

When is the friggin thread going to be closed? A little help out there mod.

 

[KOM]

I had to work, and have paid for everything. My parents don't know anybody, and sure don't have money to let me stay at home and study for the DATs. But I don't let it bother me that other people may have had an "easier" route to get to the same place as me. I take pride in where I have come from, and I honestly believe I am a better person for doing things the "harder" way.

As far as, getting into the underepresented minority thing. I am not touching that, I agree that the system isn't perfect, by any means.

Apologies for the mis-communication. You should let it bother you though! haha.

YOU ARE a better person for having to doing things the "hard way."

 

[KOM]

When is the friggin thread going to be closed? A little help out there mod.

good call. I don't think there's too much juice left in this rotten apple.

 

[haisha ni narou]

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.

wow. Reminds me of Lilburn Boggs...maybe we should pack up our wagons and head out west again. How do adcoms know who's mo anyways?? It must be our charm and rediculously good looks?

 

[Lurchdubious]

As for me I and the first one in my family to go to Undergrad, and obviously first to go to Professional school. I had to work, and have paid for everything. My parents don't know anybody, and sure don't have money to let me stay at home and study for the DATs. But I don't let it bother me that other people may have had an "easier" route to get to the same place as me. I take pride in where I have come from, and I honestly believe I am a better person for doing things the "harder" way.

I'm much the same. Not the first to go to undergrad, but definitely the first to go to any sort of graduate or professional school. I come from a long line of poor farmers, which is in large part what drives me to complete professional school.

When is the friggin thread going to be closed? A little help out there mod.

 

[Lurchdubious]

wow. Reminds me of Lilburn Boggs...maybe we should pack up our wagons and head out west again. How do adcoms know who's mo anyways?? It must be our charm and rediculously good looks?

Word.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Yeah, being a former Mormon myself, I'd say that statement "not all about making money" is definitely not true. Been ripped off by several Mormon friends, mission companions, etc., etc. Not a problem though - it's all rationalized in the psyche as "business"! They're all in it for the money... especially if they're a dentist!

There's shady buggers in every religion, group or social network. The closer you are to someone the more you see their warts, (or smell thier farts). Most people are good people, but money will bring out the worst in anybody, regardless of religion. It's not very nice to generalize so broadly.

Why would you worship the devil?????? That's like admitting defeat.

 

[toofshucker]

Um...mods, I think my question was more than sufficiently answered and this is now a pathetic thread...Please close it.

 

[ldsmbhc]

Um...mods, I think my question was more than sufficiently answered and this is now a pathetic thread...Please close it.

This is the best thing that has been said so far......

 

[Roto Picante]

I am the most fair person in the world. All about equality. Equal opportunity. Free access to welfare. And fair admissions to dental school. Since about 1.6 percent of the US population is Mormon. I guess that means about 1.6% of a given dental class should be Mormon.

There's way to many damn Mormons in dentistry.




What gives man? Have a little respect.