Question for those in the know

[The Maxx]

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My fiance is putting off Vet school for the next 4 years while I finish my surgery residency (there are no vet schools in commuting distance) and would like to know jobs that would help her with her later application. She is currently working as a Vet assistant, but would like to do something that takes advantage of having completed college. My second question is that she has heard that it is very difficult to gain admittance to an out of state school if you have a vet school in your own state ( we will be moving back to Florida). Is this true? Does that mean that it is not worth applying to other schools if you have a vet school in your state? This process seems very different than the one I endured. I know that this is likely due to the relatively small number of vet schools compared to med school which makes it even more competative. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[VeganSoprano]

Working in research would be a really good way to fortify an application. Also, make sure that there is a diversity of animal experience on her application - both large and small animals. If she has a particular area of interest in veterinary medicine (e.g. avian medicine, shelter medicine, etc), it would be a good idea to delve more deeply into that area.

With the exception of Tuskegee University and Western University of Health Sciences, every vet school in the US reserves at least half of its class (and usually more) for state residents and residents of states that "buy" slots at the school. As an in-state resident, your statistical odds of acceptance are often in the 50% range, but as an out-of-stater, your statistical odds are more like 5%. It's a very big difference, and all things being equal, a school will be more likely to offer admission to a nonresident who does not have an in-state or contract option, because they will be more likely to attend if offered admission (the thinking - which is well grounded in reality - is that a highly qualified applicant with an in-state/contract option will probably be accepted by his/her "own" school and will choose to attend there because of cheaper tuition). I do, however, know vets who were not accepted at their in-state school but who were accepted out-of-state. It's not a total waste to apply to an extra school or two.

Another big thing to do is look at the websites of schools she'd like to apply to and make sure she has all the prerequisites. University of Florida, for instance, requires two animal science classes that would not be part of a typical biology degree. She should get started taking any extra classes as soon as possible, and maybe taking a few extra upper-division science courses if her GPA could use a boost.

The vet school process is pretty different from the med school process. However, we do have one thing you MD folks don't have - WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MCATS! :-D

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[cytoborg]

The average applicant would have a slim chance of being accepted out of state for the reasons Vegan mentioned, but top applicants are likely desireable anywhere. I have certainly seen out-of-state applicants (albeit pretty desireable candidates) get interviews at a variety of places so I know the rules are not hard and fast. With 4 years to work with, she has plenty of time to build a strong CV - and adcoms will be looking closely to see that she has done something significant and meaningful with her time. Vet teching is fine to make extra cash, but it is garden-variety to the point of cliche. Research can be attention-getting, if it is relevant, yields publications and/or presentations, and a strong letter of recommendation. To really make her stand out in a crowd, I would recommend public health experience, such as earning an MPVM or MPH. This is hot in the vetmed world right now with zoonotic diseases becoming important priorities in terms of government funding and research, and with food safety and food animal medicine being oft-underrepresented fields among applicants. This would also be a smart career move in the long-term. Also, small animal, equine, zoo and wildlife medicine are very popular among applicants so developing a unique interest (such as food animal) can be an advantage.

 

[Alysheba]

I was accepted to veterinary school with significant hours milking cows, caring for horses in a hunter/jumper show barn and working as a veterinary assistant in a small animal practice. In addition, I worked for the anesthesia department (large animal) of a veterinary teaching hospital stocking, cleaning the recovery stall, assisting at inductions etc. I had a very small amount of research experience...and it was mostly animal care.

I think that there are many combinations of clinical, research and production experience that can get you an acceptance. It is important to either show a bredth or preferably depth of experience. You should gain experience with animals in a way that interests you, that you think will serve you well in the future.

Getting animal handling skills is essential to your success as a practitioner. I graduated from veterinary school in 2000, and find the skills I learned as a pre-vet are vital in establishing credibility with clients, particularly equine clients.

Good luck. I understand about wondering about appropriate extracurriculars...irony of the century - I'll be applying to MD programs next year. 🙂

 

[cytoborg]

I understand about wondering about appropriate extracurriculars...irony of the century - I'll be applying to MD programs next year. 🙂

WOW...that's impressive...good luck on the very long road ahead (and I don't mean that in an obnoxious way). Vet school is no cakewalk and then to do medschool too, well, that's not for the faint of heart!

 

[southerncomfort]

"...irony of the century - I'll be applying to MD programs next year. 🙂"


Alysheba--why do you want to go to med school now? Not to pry, just that there are a few of us out here contemplating which path to choose (or hoping a path will choose us by sending a fat letter instead of a skinny one! 😛 )
FWIW, the Vet Med Division Head at the research center where I used to work is a DVM who then later applied and was accepted to med school, but decided not to go. Don't know what his reasons were either way...

Good luck in whatever you choose! 🙂

 

[Alysheba]

Southern Comfort...there's no one quick answer to this one.

I love medicine, surgery, and animals, but have come to truly appreciate the people too. I guess the best way to explain it is my response to seeing a dead dog on the side of the road. Before I became a veterinarian, I mentally would think "Poor baby, he was lost and scared, and now he's been hit by a car". My empathy is not less now, but my first thought is "He's wearing a collar; somewhere somebody is worried about him, and will soon be mourning him." I grieve for the owners as much as for the dog.

I also like the idea of being able to empower the patient and inmprove patient compliance by including them in the health care decision process. You can do this to some extent in veterinary medicine, but like in pediatrics, it is not the patient directly. I think by educating people and making them responsible for their own health and treatment, you are vastly improving their quality of life.

The second reason is a little more on the practical side. I learned how to be a doctor and a surgeon in veterinary school, and yet I find myself a bill collector in practice. On the nights that I have call, I am handed a list three pages long of clients whose pets I cannot treat because they owe the practice lots of money. So then when they call, I have to decide whether or not to treat the animal. If the animal's life is endangered I always do. Then I'm in trouble with the practice owners the next day. If you don't treat the animal, the owners say "If you really loved animals, you'd treat them for free". What most don't realize is that over a third of my salary goes back to repaying student loans. I'm barely making it and I'm one of the better-paid folks in my class.

In addition, most of the treatments I learned in school I never get to use. Unless you're practicing in an extremely affluent area, you are begging people to get rabies vaccines and trying to defend the need for a physical. "The vet don't need to look at him. He's healthy, just give him the shot. I don't wanna pay for the rest of that crap." The worst part is, it's not just the uneducated that have this attitude. I have a client who's a physician that cried about a $15 office call/physical exam fee. She was dumbfounded when I asked her what she got for a physical exam, and immediately proceeded to tell me it wasn't the same thing. I would love to be able to practice where I can make decisions in the best interest of the patient and only have to justify costs to an insurance company, not every client that walks through the door.

Sorry for the long answer, but there's just no way to explain it in 25 words or less!

 

[southerncomfort]

Alysheba, you put into words exactly what I am thinking/feeling/trying to sort out!
<sigh> This really isn't going to be clean-cut, black and white, is it? 🙁
It just seems to get more and more complicated.

Although, what am I worried about? I have to get an *acceptance* first somewhere! 😉

Good luck in whatever your path is. You sound like a great doctor--compassionate, caring, and with a conscience. And we need more of those in both fields! 🙂

 

[Alysheba]

Thank you for your kind words, Southern Comfort. Best wishes to you in your chosen career path (whichever direction you choose to go). I'm sure either one will have its joys and its challenges.

 

[brooke104]

Hello, I am having difficulty deciding whether I want to go into human or veterinary medicine as well. Alysheba, I was wondering if you could tell me whether you think that doing a residency in small animal surgery and practicing as a small animal surgeon, would reduce my chances of having clients who only wanted the bare minimum for their pets? Thanks.

 

[Alysheba]

I absolutely think that when a client makes a decision to bring their pet to a board-certified specialist, they have made a committment to a certain level of care. This was in fact the road that I wanted to take, but I ran into a little difficulty.

As you may or may not know, school loans cannot be deferred while doing an internship or residency either medical or veterinary. Not great news when you're making 30-something thousand as a medical intern, really bad when you're earning around twenty thousand (or less) as a veterinary intern.

For example, in 2000, yours truly was offered an internship at a university in the mid-west. Said internship paid $16,800 per year. After taxes that's $13,000. That's $1,050 per month to live off of, rent, loans, food, everything. If you have parents or a spouse who can help you, or if you have a lot of money saved, or if you didn't have to take school loans, it's very doable.

If you can afford to follow the residency path, I think your overall job satisfaction will be higher. I think you will be able to practice higher quality medicine and surgery and be more intellectually challenged. I hopr this helped.

 

[brooke104]

Thank you very much for answering. I hadn’t thought about the financial aspect of an internship/residency and that is definitely something I will consider. Thank you for giving me hope that if I become a veterinarian it is possible to have a fulfilling career where I can help animals when they need it. 🙂