Question from incoming MS1 DO...

[anonalt]

Hi there. As stated in the title, I am going to be starting at a DO school this coming fall and I have a question for you now that you've had some exposure to the field.

If you had an acceptance from a DO school in hand for the upcoming year, but had a legitimate shot at gaining acceptance to an MD program the following year, would you take the acceptance or wait the additional year? Consider all other variables in the decision to be consistent with what you faced as an applying pre-med.

Any input is much appreciated!

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[BurghStudent]

Thinking you have a legitimate shot at gaining acceptance to an MD program is not the same as having the admissions letter in your hand. Think really hard before you decide to do this. How do you really measure up to average accepted MD applicant, is what you should ask yourself (I'm channeling Yoda)

You should also really think about what specialty you want to pursue. I know its early. But if you want to leave as many doors open, and more importantly, have an easier time keeping those doors open, go MD. If you look at the threads in the DO board, you'll see DO's applying for orthopedic surgery with a 250 step 1, good research etc. , who simply didn't match. I know anecdotes =/= fact, but there is no denying that in the more coveted specialties, there exists a bias against DOs, because small-minded, self-important people can't think of a better way to differentiate themselves than by worshiping two sh*tty letters behind their name.

 

[anonalt]

Thinking you have a legitimate shot at gaining acceptance to an MD program is not the same as having the admissions letter in your hand. Think really hard before you decide to do this. How do you really measure up to average accepted MD applicant, is what you should ask yourself (I'm channeling Yoda)

You should also really think about what specialty you want to pursue. I know its early. But if you want to leave as many doors open, and more importantly, have an easier time keeping those doors open, go MD. If you look at the threads in the DO board, you'll see DO's applying for orthopedic surgery with a 250 step 1, good research etc. , who simply didn't match. I know anecdotes =/= fact, but there is no denying that in the more coveted specialties, there exists a bias against DOs, because small-minded, self-important people can't think of a better way to differentiate themselves than by worshiping two sh*tty letters behind their name.

Thank you for your reply, very informative. The scenario I presented is only loosely based on my situation. I graduated with a 3.66 s/c and 27 MCAT (9, 9, 9), which would give me a small chance of snatching an acceptance from a low tier MD program.

 

[WillburCobb]

Thank you for your reply, very informative. The scenario I presented is only loosely based on my situation. I graduated with a 3.66 s/c and 27 MCAT (9, 9, 9), which would give me a small chance of snatching an acceptance from a low tier MD program.

Honestly you're better off sticking with the DO acceptance. Your chances at MD are honestly a crap shoot. Not worth the risk, time, or money IMHO, just for an additional consonant at the end of your name.

 

[BurghStudent]

If you are going to reapply, you'll likely have to retake the MCAT on top of everything else. Also, not to cause a riot but, URM status?

 

[anonalt]

If you are going to reapply, you'll likely have to retake the MCAT on top of everything else. Also, not to cause a riot but, URM status?

Yes, I would definitely need to retake the MCAT, and I am as represented as can be (young and white). I have made the decision to keep my acceptance already, I'm just curious what some MD students such as yourselves would do in the scenario I presented in the original post.

 

[BurghStudent]

Yes, I would definitely need to retake the MCAT, and I am as represented as can be (young and white). I have made the decision to keep my acceptance already, I'm just curious what some MD students such as yourselves would do in the scenario I presented in the original post.

Personally, I don't like people telling me what I am and am not capable of. I cannot change the 2 degree system we currently live in. And unless every grey-faced program director suddenly steps down and lets a new breed of understanding MDs and DOs take their place, we aren't going to see the bias decrease. Medical school is very hard. It would suck for all the work to mean any bit less because of the degree you earn.

So, if I were in your shoes, I would retake the MCAT and go MD.

HOWEVER: As you can tell I have nothing against DOs, I hate the way the system treats DOs. You can still get to where you want to go as a DO. It might be harder, but if you're up to it, great.

Pro-tip, specialties like Derm, Plastics, ENT, Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Rad Onc, General Surgery, go MD. Ophtho, Neuro, Anes seems fair either way.

 

[dyspareunia]

Hi there. As stated in the title, I am going to be starting at a DO school this coming fall and I have a question for you now that you've had some exposure to the field.

If you had an acceptance from a DO school in hand for the upcoming year, but had a legitimate shot at gaining acceptance to an MD program the following year, would you take the acceptance or wait the additional year? Consider all other variables in the decision to be consistent with what you faced as an applying pre-med.

Any input is much appreciated!

How legitimate is your shot?

 

[alpinism]

Unless you have some amazing ECs or are URM, having a 27 MCAT isn't really a legitimate shot...

You'd have a small chance, sure.

 

[Psai]

Personally, I don't like people telling me what I am and am not capable of. I cannot change the 2 degree system we currently live in. And unless every grey-faced program director suddenly steps down and lets a new breed of understanding MDs and DOs take their place, we aren't going to see the bias decrease. Medical school is very hard. It would suck for all the work to mean any bit less because of the degree you earn.

So, if I were in your shoes, I would retake the MCAT and go MD.

HOWEVER: As you can tell I have nothing against DOs, I hate the way the system treats DOs. You can still get to where you want to go as a DO. It might be harder, but if you're up to it, great.

Pro-tip, specialties like Derm, Plastics, ENT, Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Rad Onc, General Surgery, go MD. Ophtho, Neuro, Anes seems fair either way.

People in MD schools worked harder to get in than people in DO schools. It would suck for all that hard work to mean any less because people want to have equality after the fact.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

if you can get a 32+ on the mcat i bet you you could get in

 

[anonalt]

People in MD schools worked harder to get in than people in DO schools. It would suck for all that hard work to mean any less because people want to have equality after the fact.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Lower MCAT/GPA =/= less work. Some people (like myself) decided late in their collegiate career to pursue medicine. Some people are non-traditionals who went back to school whilst raising families and maintaining their structured life they established before deciding to return. Some have dealt with unforeseen circumstances that have delayed or halted their academic career. Did some simply put in less work? Sure, but in no way do I believe that group represents the majority of DO students.

 

[anonalt]

Unless you have some amazing ECs or are URM, having a 27 MCAT isn't really a legitimate shot...

You'd have a small chance, sure.

As stated above, my scenario was hypothetical and only loosely based on my own circumstances. I have no plans at this time to withdraw my acceptance to the DO school I was admitted to. I'm mainly trying to gather MD student perspective about the DO route, and I thought this scenario would encourage discussion.

 

[SurgeDO]

As stated above, my scenario was hypothetical and only loosely based on my own circumstances. I have no plans at this time to withdraw my acceptance to the DO school I was admitted to. I'm mainly trying to gather MD student perspective about the DO route, and I thought this scenario would encourage discussion.

i think i found your problem.

 

[Daodejing]

if you're confident in your test-taking abilities:
1) retake the MCAT
2) score well
3) ?????
4) profit

if not, continue DO. also you're an "incoming *OMS-1". if you're gonna start a MD vs. DO thread in disguise, then at least use the right lingo. gosh.

 

[BurghStudent]

People in MD schools worked harder to get in than people in DO schools. It would suck for all that hard work to mean any less because people want to have equality after the fact.

Oh if only life was that simple. MD = harder, gur. If people work hard and reach the same clinic or OR as you do, it's not watering down your degree unless you let it. Please, I go to an MD school and I know many DO students. Apart from the few poor saps who scraped by and got into DO school, who will probably take residency positions you wouldn't want in a million years, in today's day and age, we are basically on par. More than half of DOs enter ACGME residencies. On the other hand, I know students in my own class who really should have become PhDs instead. MD students aren't gods, neither are DO students. We're cut from the same cloth. We have bigger issues to worry about from outside the physician circle, than within.

Bottom line to the entire argument that plagues SDN, you can't depict the nuances of people's live in broad brushstrokes.

 

[Beargryllz]

Your MCAT needs to be a lot higher before you try to ditch an acceptance from a school you can go to for a school you might be able to get into. I wouldn't take the risk if I were you. Go be a doctor

 

[dyspareunia]

As stated above, my scenario was hypothetical and only loosely based on my own circumstances. I have no plans at this time to withdraw my acceptance to the DO school I was admitted to. I'm mainly trying to gather MD student perspective about the DO route, and I thought this scenario would encourage discussion.

The DO route exists for people who can't get into MD programs. It's less prestigious (whatever that means), costs more (usually), teaches alternative medicine (OMM), and doesn't do you any favors when it comes to the Match.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Lower MCAT/GPA =/= less work. Some people (like myself) decided late in their collegiate career to pursue medicine. Some people are non-traditionals who went back to school whilst raising families and maintaining their structured life they established before deciding to return. Some have dealt with unforeseen circumstances that have delayed or halted their academic career. Did some simply put in less work? Sure, but in no way do I believe that group represents the majority of DO students.

Lower MCAT/GPA == less academic work and/or less academic capability. Having non-academic obstacles that result in lower GPA/MCAT will also result in reduced performance in med school; that much should be obvious.

Two other things wrong with your argument here:

1. You are saying that people with families, prior careers, etc are inherently going to perform less well academically than traditional students. This isn't true as there are many non-trads in MD programs.

2. The majority of DO students most certainly did put in less work. If you honestly think that >51% of DO students have low(er) cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores because of a family, prior career, or catastrophic life event then you are delusional. None of those things lead to a low GPA; which requires consistent low grades, and nothing is stopping from someone retaking the MCAT if they caught swine flu the day before their first attempt.

Sacrifice is necessary; and if you can't make appropriate sacrifices to clear out 1-2 months for MCAT prep (for example) how do you plan to make the necessary sacrifices to get through med school?

Personally, I don't like people telling me what I am and am not capable of. I cannot change the 2 degree system we currently live in. And unless every grey-faced program director suddenly steps down and lets a new breed of understanding MDs and DOs take their place, we aren't going to see the bias decrease. Medical school is very hard. It would suck for all the work to mean any bit less because of the degree you earn.

So, if I were in your shoes, I would retake the MCAT and go MD.

HOWEVER: As you can tell I have nothing against DOs, I hate the way the system treats DOs. You can still get to where you want to go as a DO. It might be harder, but if you're up to it, great.

Pro-tip, specialties like Derm, Plastics, ENT, Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Rad Onc, General Surgery, go MD. Ophtho, Neuro, Anes seems fair either way.

Bias exists between top MD schools and bottom MD schools. The anti-DO bias is reasonable given the circumstances.

 

[Otto of the Silver-Hand]

People in MD schools worked harder to get in than people in DO schools. It would suck for all that hard work to mean any less because people want to have equality after the fact.

:troll:

 

[boogaloo]

Hi there. As stated in the title, I am going to be starting at a DO school this coming fall and I have a question for you now that you've had some exposure to the field.

If you had an acceptance from a DO school in hand for the upcoming year, but had a legitimate shot at gaining acceptance to an MD program the following year, would you take the acceptance or wait the additional year? Consider all other variables in the decision to be consistent with what you faced as an applying pre-med.

Any input is much appreciated!

If you decline the acceptance and retake the MCAT but still don't do significantly better, then you're SOL from both ends, at least in the near future for the MD schools and possibly permanently for the DO schools. You're taking the risk of delaying or losing your career at the expense of a guaranteed acceptance. If you are confident that you can break a 31-32 on the MCAT, then go for it and reapply. Even then, there are no guarantees that you will be accepted to an MD school. I don't know if declining an acceptance would show up on future applications, but if it does, then you're really fighting an uphill battle. I guess it also depends on what you want to do; if it's family med, I think you'll be more than okay at a DO school. Orthopaedic surgery on the other hand... there's still a lot of bias. I don't know when or if that's going to go away, but it's there right now.

 

[ChEMD]

The DO route exists for people who can't get into MD programs. It's less prestigious (whatever that means), costs more (usually), teaches alternative medicine (OMM), and doesn't do you any favors when it comes to the Match.



Lower MCAT/GPA == less academic work and/or less academic capability. Having non-academic obstacles that result in lower GPA/MCAT will also result in reduced performance in med school; that much should be obvious.

Two other things wrong with your argument here:

1. You are saying that people with families, prior careers, etc are inherently going to perform less well academically than traditional students. This isn't true as there are many non-trads in MD programs.

2. The majority of DO students most certainly did put in less work. If you honestly think that >51% of DO students have low(er) cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores because of a family, prior career, or catastrophic life event then you are delusional. None of those things lead to a low GPA; which requires consistent low grades, and nothing is stopping from someone retaking the MCAT if they caught swine flu the day before their first attempt.

Sacrifice is necessary; and if you can't make appropriate sacrifices to clear out 1-2 months for MCAT prep (for example) how do you plan to make the necessary sacrifices to get through med school?



Bias exists between top MD schools and bottom MD schools. The anti-DO bias is reasonable given the circumstances.

Wow. It's not that most people won't agree with some of your points, but the way that you say them just screams self-entitlement. Try to gain a little perspective, not everyone comes from the same situation.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Wow. It's not that most people won't agree with some of your points, but the way that you say them just screams self-entitlement. Try to gain a little perspective, not everyone comes from the same situation.

 

[ChEMD]

View attachment 180456

I don't get it, lol.

 

[Oblique]

Go DO, work hard, and you will be fine. Orthopedic surgery is a challenge for both MD and DO students.

 

[DrEnderW]

Dude, post this in the Osteo forum.

You're not going to get many responses from people in your situation or from those that went DO (for whatever reason). Most MD students don't know much about DO programs, the AOA match, and opinions outside of SDN. I am not saying the sentiments on here are incorrect, but you could gain more from DO med students, residents, and physicians that can give you first hand opinion.

For example, there are people discussing DOs applying to ACGME ortho and they are absolutely correct, that isn't happening. But you're not getting to insight on the AOA ortho residencies and the pros/cons/possibilities of that route.

 

[Psai]

More than half of DOs enter ACGME residencies because they don't have enough AOA residencies for the number of students they pump out. That's why the AOA acceded to the merger of graduate medical education. I'm not saying that you won't get the same training at the same residency or that the medical education is less rigorous but let's be real here. If you went DO, chances are that it's because your GPA and MCAT are lower. And if your stats are lower, it's probably because you aren't as smart. I've had several DOs as teachers and preceptors and I respect them. My PCP is a DO and I think she's great. But you're kidding yourself if you think that the caliber of the student body is the same.

 

[JJLA]

..

 

[Psai]

Lol yeah I'm sure the kids at DO schools are there because they went to princeton instead of harvard. Yawn

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Lol yeah I'm sure the kids at DO schools are there because they went to princeton instead of harvard. Yawn

All those drug-fueled parties at Princeton can hamper one's grades.

 

[BurghStudent]

More than half of DOs enter ACGME residencies because they don't have enough AOA residencies for the number of students they pump out. That's why the AOA acceded to the merger of graduate medical education. I'm not saying that you won't get the same training at the same residency or that the medical education is less rigorous but let's be real here. If you went DO, chances are that it's because your GPA and MCAT are lower. And if your stats are lower, it's probably because you aren't as smart. I've had several DOs as teachers and preceptors and I respect them. My PCP is a DO and I think she's great. But you're kidding yourself if you think that the caliber of the student body is the same.

When we stop thinking in such simplistic terms, medical education will advance at a rapid rate. Sure, the statistics cannot lie, I agree. But to equate intelligence to GPA and MCAT is a poor strategy of rationalization. I dare you to go into the OR and clinic, and pick out the DOs. There are other things that matter in medicine, like social intelligence, or mechanical intelligence. My orthopedic surgeon is a DO. He is an intelligent, skillful and socially exceptional person. At the end of the day, ask the patient. GPA and MCAT won't save you where it really matters. Sure you can't totally suck in these assessments.

To judge your colleagues on such incidental measures is not the right path to take.

 

[Mad Jack]

The DO route exists for people who can't get into MD programs. It's less prestigious (whatever that means), costs more (usually), teaches alternative medicine (OMM), and doesn't do you any favors when it comes to the Match.



Lower MCAT/GPA == less academic work and/or less academic capability. Having non-academic obstacles that result in lower GPA/MCAT will also result in reduced performance in med school; that much should be obvious.

Two other things wrong with your argument here:

1. You are saying that people with families, prior careers, etc are inherently going to perform less well academically than traditional students. This isn't true as there are many non-trads in MD programs.

2. The majority of DO students most certainly did put in less work. If you honestly think that >51% of DO students have low(er) cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores because of a family, prior career, or catastrophic life event then you are delusional. None of those things lead to a low GPA; which requires consistent low grades, and nothing is stopping from someone retaking the MCAT if they caught swine flu the day before their first attempt.

Sacrifice is necessary; and if you can't make appropriate sacrifices to clear out 1-2 months for MCAT prep (for example) how do you plan to make the necessary sacrifices to get through med school?



Bias exists between top MD schools and bottom MD schools. The anti-DO bias is reasonable given the circumstances.

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about what a DO student supposedly should be.

 

[Microshaft]

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about what a DO student supposedly should be.

OH ITS ON

 

[stlrams22]

The DO route exists for people who can't get into MD programs. It's less prestigious (whatever that means), costs more (usually), teaches alternative medicine (OMM), and doesn't do you any favors when it comes to the Match.



Lower MCAT/GPA == less academic work and/or less academic capability. Having non-academic obstacles that result in lower GPA/MCAT will also result in reduced performance in med school; that much should be obvious.

Two other things wrong with your argument here:

1. You are saying that people with families, prior careers, etc are inherently going to perform less well academically than traditional students. This isn't true as there are many non-trads in MD programs.

2. The majority of DO students most certainly did put in less work. If you honestly think that >51% of DO students have low(er) cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores because of a family, prior career, or catastrophic life event then you are delusional. None of those things lead to a low GPA; which requires consistent low grades, and nothing is stopping from someone retaking the MCAT if they caught swine flu the day before their first attempt.

Sacrifice is necessary; and if you can't make appropriate sacrifices to clear out 1-2 months for MCAT prep (for example) how do you plan to make the necessary sacrifices to get through med school?



Bias exists between top MD schools and bottom MD schools. The anti-DO bias is reasonable given the circumstances.

3.9 and 30 would be competitive for MD. I only applied to DO schools. The DO route is more than a back up plan.

 

[stlrams22]

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about
what a DO student supposedly should be.

I say some on here like to stroke their ego. @dyspareunia @Psai

 

[Slack3r]

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about what a DO student supposedly should be.

I say you sold yourself short for competitive residencies.

 

[BANGO]

.

 

[Daodejing]

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about what a DO student supposedly should be.

I don't wanna say anything...just ask...why?

 

[studocplsignore]

38 MCAT and 3.7 GPA. 1v1 me for medical degrees.

 

[mulberry]

I say you sold yourself short for competitive residencies.

Maybe he's not interested in competitive residencies...?

 

[001100010010011]

The whole DO vs. MD opportunities debate is similar to the debate between doing the first 2 years of undergrad at a community college vs. at a 4-yr. Anyone else think so?
Is there a difference between the two? yes
a huge difference? not at all
a big enough difference to really change your pick of career/school options? yes
will some from the 2-year cc path (or DO path) go into highly competitive careers/specialties? yes, but not many

Nice try, terrible analogy though.

Not many MD students go into highly competitive specialties either. That's what makes those specialties highly competitive.

 

[sinombre]

Maybe he's not interested in competitive residencies...?

True, but how many first year medical students actually know what they want to do when they start? Those that think they do usually change their minds. I think it behooves anyone entering medical school to keep as many doors open as possible.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

People in MD schools worked harder to get in than people in DO schools. It would suck for all that hard work to mean any less because people want to have equality after the fact.

As others have said, not everyone comes from the same background. The 28-year-old single mom holding down two jobs while completing college is most likely going to less ECs, less shadowing, and a lower GPA than the trust-fund baby whose only job during undergrad is to get into medical school.

if you're confident in your test-taking abilities:
1) retake the MCAT
2) score well
3) ?????
4) profit

if not, continue DO. also you're an "incoming *OMS-1". if you're gonna start a MD vs. DO thread in disguise, then at least use the right lingo. gosh.

He is using the right lingo. Not all DOs say "OMS". I don't.

Two other things wrong with your argument here:

1. You are saying that people with families, prior careers, etc are inherently going to perform less well academically than traditional students. This isn't true as there are many non-trads in MD programs

I don't have numbers, but I would bet there are a hell of a lot more non-trads in DO schools. The fact is those that either took longer to finish undergrad or those who went back after another career are more likely to have lower GPAs. If someone graduated from undergrad 15 years ago with a degree in Art History hoping to be a school teacher, it's likely grades weren't their end-all-be-all like it would be the Biochem major who was set on becoming a vascular surgeon at age 3.

2. The majority of DO students most certainly did put in less work. If you honestly think that >51% of DO students have low(er) cumulative GPAs and MCAT scores because of a family, prior career, or catastrophic life event then you are delusional. None of those things lead to a low GPA; which requires consistent low grades, and nothing is stopping from someone retaking the MCAT if they caught swine flu the day before their first attempt

What world do you live in where family, prior career, or catastrophic life events don't affect performance in school? And let's cut back on the psych lingo when you have a tough time understanding what it means.

Sacrifice is necessary; and if you can't make appropriate sacrifices to clear out 1-2 months for MCAT prep (for example) how do you plan to make the necessary sacrifices to get through med school?

Considering the fact that many people do every single year, I'd say your argument is pure crap. And FYI, some of those low tier MD schools have lower MCAT averages than some DO schools. At least they did when I was a pre-med.

Bias exists between top MD schools and bottom MD schools. The anti-DO bias is reasonable given the circumstances.

It's only reasonable to the narrow-minded.

More than half of DOs enter ACGME residencies because they don't have enough AOA residencies for the number of students they pump out. That's why the AOA acceded to the merger of graduate medical education. I'm not saying that you won't get the same training at the same residency or that the medical education is less rigorous but let's be real here. If you went DO, chances are that it's because your GPA and MCAT are lower. And if your stats are lower, it's probably because you aren't as smart. I've had several DOs as teachers and preceptors and I respect them. My PCP is a DO and I think she's great. But you're kidding yourself if you think that the caliber of the student body is the same.

Stats don't tell you a damn thing about intelligence. If someone aces Organic Chem, does that mean he or she is smarter than the person who got a C in it? If you answer yes, I'd ask you to think about it more carefully and pretend you're taking an MCAT VR section.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

Guys not everyone can make it to the big leagues (MD). That's fine cuz the little leaguers (DO) get paid well too.

 

[BANGO]

.

 

[username456789]

What do you say about a guy like me, who went DO with a 3.8/35 and never even applied MD? I fit none of your presumptions about what a DO student supposedly should be.

I would ask one question: do they even teach statistics at your school?

 

[Mad Jack]

I say you sold yourself short for competitive residencies.

There's not a single highly competitive residency that interests me, so I'm 'aight from that perspective. I don't want to deal with cancer 24/7, be any sort of surgeon, or do anything in the realm of radiology. I'm too old for a subspecialty fellowship to be viable as a career choice, so realistically I'm looking at 3-4 year residencies. Anesthesia, EM, IM, neurology, and psych are my top choices, all quite viable for a DO.

I would ask one question: do they even teach statistics at your school?

I wasn't saying he was oblivious to high stat DO students existing, just curious what he would say about a student who doesn't fit his stereotype.

True, but how many first year medical students actually know what they want to do when they start? Those that think they do usually change their minds. I think it behooves anyone entering medical school to keep as many doors open as possible.

Generally I would agree with you. I'm kind of a special case though- I've spent over six years working a clinical position at a large academic medical center. I've had a great deal of exposure to every specialty, and have a few physicians that have mentored me along the way and had big impacts on my life and the way I view medicine. What I know with certainty is what specialties are not for me, and all but one competitive specialty falls into that category.

I say some on here like to stroke their ego. @dyspareunia @Psai

I could care less about my MCAT and GPA. I only brought them up for the same reason you dragged yours out- to show that there actually are some solid DO only applicants out there nowadays.

 

[username456789]

I could care less about my MCAT and GPA.

Then please do.

 

[Mad Jack]

Then please do.

Done. Now I couldn't care less.

 

[SurgeDO]

i think DermViser needs to write out some prescriptions for some thicker skin to all my butthurt osteo bros and allo bros. the truth is nobody in this thread will ever be in the position to hire any of you, and nobody in this thread will ever have the balls to tell you to your face that they look down upon you because of your degree/school/MCAT/SAT. if they do, **** them; that is their problem.

anybody who participates in the MD/DO debate are the real losers. allo bros and osteo bros need to unite and focus on issues that actually matter.

so...let's just get back to directing our hatred at the pathetic incompetencies of NPs before they kill more patients with textbook DKA:

https://www.rmf.harvard.edu/Clinici...es-After-Offhours-Call-to-NP-for-Flu-Symptoms

^^for ****'s sake, how do you mess up that badly?