Question on Beta-blockers- do they decrease slope of BOTH phase 0 and phase 4

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Transformers

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Well, Beta blockers decrease cAMP so I get the decreased Ca2+ part which should ultimately affect the phase 0 (Ca2) rise part on nodal tissue (SA and AV node)....but why is it the phase 4 slope that decreases??

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Phase 4 is the Na+ funny current....why does that decrease...plus should I assume the slope of phase 3 decreases also since the PR interval increases as well?
 
Phase 4 is the Na+ funny current....why does that decrease...plus should I assume the slope of phase 3 decreases also since the PR interval increases as well?

http://www.cvphysiology.com/Arrhythmias/A004.htm said:
At the end of repolarization, when the membrane potential is very negative (about -60 mV), ion channels open that conduct slow, inward (depolarizing) Na+ currents. These currents are called "funny" currents and abbreviated as "If". These depolarizing currents cause the membrane potential to begin to spontaneously depolarize, thereby initiating Phase 4. As the membrane potential reaches about -50 mV, another type of channel opens. This channel is called transient or T-type Ca++ channel. As Ca++ enters the cell through these channels down its electrochemical gradient, the inward directed Ca++ currents further depolarize the cell. When the membrane depolarizes to about -40 mV, a second type of Ca++ channel opens. These are the so-called long-lasting, or L-type Ca++ channels. Opening of these channels causes more Ca++ to enter the cell and to further depolarize the cell until an action potential threshold is reached (usually between -40 and -30 mV). It should be noted that a hyperpolarized state is necessary for pacemaker channels to become activated. Without the membrane voltage becoming very negative at the end of phase 3, pacemaker channels remain inactivated, which suppresses pacemaker currents and decreases the slope of phase 4. This is one reason why cellular hypoxia, which depolarizes the cell and alters phase 3 hyperpolarization, leads to a reduction in pacemaker rate (i.e., produces bradycardia). During Phase 4 there is also a slow decline in the outward movement of K+ as the K+ channels responsible for Phase 3 continue to close. This fall in K+ conductance (gK+) contributes to the depolarizing pacemaker potential.

Funny current by itself is an oversimplification. If you want to know why drugs do what they do, you're going to have to go beyond that
 
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Thanks...on a more random question I got a UW q wrong asking pretty much about verapmils action on phase 4" of SA/AV nodal cells...the answer was "slow diastolic depolarization" which was a bit word jumble because i was thrown off on the "diastolic" part...technically speaking should we just assume atrial depolorization is "diastolic" (i.e.- in terms of the ventricles)...I mean if the answer was "slow SYSTOLIC depolarization" I wouldve felt more confident.
 
Thanks...on a more random question I got a UW q wrong asking pretty much about verapmils action on phase 4" of SA/AV nodal cells...the answer was "slow diastolic depolarization" which was a bit word jumble because i was thrown off on the "diastolic" part...technically speaking should we just assume atrial depolorization is "diastolic" (i.e.- in terms of the ventricles)...I mean if the answer was "slow SYSTOLIC depolarization" I wouldve felt more confident.

Systole is when the ventricles depolarize and release blood into the lungs/rest of the body. Atrial contraction is apart of diastole where you fill the ventricles. Therefore, atrial depolarization is always in diastole. Hope that helps
 
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The easiest way to think about it in my opinion (though might not be completely encompassing) is that catecholamines/adrenergics increase the slope of phase 4, which is how they speed up the heart rate. So when you block that with beta blockers, you decrease phase 4.
 
Thanks for the help, so here was my big rationale:

So when I look at the mechanisms of Antiarythmics for slowing the heart rate down (i.e.- increasing the PR interval), I try to look at what tissue is affected (SA/AV node or ventricular tissue).

Correct me if I'm wrong but:
Class 2 and 4 target the SA/AV action potential

I guess in my mind, when looking at SA and AV Node I equate the following:

Phase 4 (Na+) = pacemaker potential = HR = p-wave deplorization on the EKG
Phase 0 (Ca2+) = Conduction through the AV node

If either phase is blocked, the PR interval should increase.

So to slow the heart rate down, Class IV makes sense, you block phase 0, the L-type Calcium channels. With beta blockers, the effects are more indirect since you are acting on the a beta receptor, decreasing Ca2+ current (since you decreased cAMP)...wouldn't the decrease Ca2+ current affect phase 0, I'm not sure why phase 4 (aka why sodium is in the picture) gets affected in the context of the signal transduction pathway you are involving.
 
This is pretty old post, but I hope it can clear a confusion.
Sympathetic beta receptors increase heart rate by increasing rate of of phase 4 depolarization(increased If), and increases conduction velocity through through av node, by increased inward ca current. (From Costanzo Physio review(
So if you use beta blockers, rate and conduction will decrease
So I understand the increase in slope of phase 4, and phase 0. But how does repolarization at Av node is prolonged (FA 2017), how does phase 3 (K efflux) get affected?
Thank you. I'll appreciate any input.
 
I have a problem here as well, now from what I understand is that Beta aderenergic type -1 receptor stimulation (cardiac heart specific) by Beta Blockers a sympatholytic agent with Intrinsic sympathomimetic properties reduced cAMP production, diminishing activation of protein kinase A, so less phosphorylation of Calcium Channels leads to reduced opening, this leads to less calcium entering the cell and ultimately decrease of intracellular calcium concentrations. Apparently from the scientist that discover the funny channel in pacemaker cells in 1979 whichc published an article in 2010 the decrease in cAMP also decreases opening of funny channel current. This affects slow depolarization before reaching threshold ( If in phase 4) and slow depolarization after reaching -40mv threshold ( L-type, T-type Calcium Channels in Phase 0).

What I dont get is most books state that they do prolong repolarization increasing refractory effectiveness in AV Node ( decrease the incidence of re-entry), prolonging PR interval but first aid and other journal don't explain it, is it because it also affect delay rectifying potassium channels by decreasing cAMP, or by L-type calcium channels opening more slower increasing plateu phase, or by inability of If channels to open during repolarization? The only known Beta Blocker who has been put as a antiarrythmic class III agent is sotalol that is a specific delay retifying potassium channels blocker and does prolong repolarization in ventricular cardiomyocytes leading to LONG qT syndrome.
 
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