Question Regarding Pre-Match Phone Correspondences

[b&ierstiefel]

After driving 10 hours to get back to my apartment from home (did anyone have to fight through that snowstorm in Cleveland?), I checked my mailbox only to find followup letters from some of the places I visited recently. Initially, reading them felt nice. However, all of the letters except one ended with a statement along the lines of, "I will give you a call near the end of January/beginning of February" So now, I'm starting to feel a bit uneasy about this.

I would like to ask some of the PGYs, on behalf of all of us current applicants, "When programs call you, what goes on in the discussion?" Do programs try to pressure you? Or is it totally benign? Should we flat out tell them where we will rank the program if they ask (clearly a violation of the Match)? Should we just offer up our intentions voluntarily? Or shall we keep it non-commital and say that we will rank them highly, very highly, extremely highly, etc.? Should we tell a program, "you are #1"? (here, I am worried that program directors/chairs communicate with one another so word could travel fast).

Maybe I'm overthinking things here but I have a feeling that if we don't tell them what they want to hear, we may drop down on their rank lists. Clearly, the best scenario for THE APPLICANT is that he/she is ranked highly by all of the programs to which he/she have applied and interviewed. So now the focus of this game shifts to ensuring this as much as possible. Yes, it sounds sneaky. Yes, it sounds dishonest. Yes, it sounds manipulative. But as some of the posters in a different thread indicated, we have to do whatever is necessary to protect OUR interests since the programs will be doing whatever they can to protect their interests.

Now, the worst possible scenario is that we over-commit to one program during the correspondence whereas we are honest during our communications with the other programs (i.e., give them the impression that they are NOT our #1 choice) --> then come ROL entry day, the #1 program ranks us highly but not high enough for us to match --> then we get screwed further because the other programs dropped us lower on their ROLs based on the fact that we didn't tell them what they wanted to hear (i.e., we played the game foolishly) --> and god forbid we don't match.

If we just reply with general non-commital comments like, "I was very impressed with your program and I intend to rank your program highly." we could get screwed right? I mean, PD's can't be dumb and they can see through our bullsh*t --> they will probably call SHENANIGANS unless we tell them, "I'm your man! You are my #1!"

OK this question is starting to look like rambling discourse and I'm just thinking out loud here (but it's late at night and I'm still caffeinated from all the soda--I mean pop--I drank during the drive up). The original question is bolded though I just wanted to get this off my chest so to speak. So if anyone can chime in and offer any suggestions, that would be totally sweet, seriously.

Cheers.

P.S. Best case scenario = no correspondences. With applications submitted and interviews completed, everything is out on the table. No manipulations. Programs and applicants submit ROLs as they best see fit and everything works out naturally.
P.P.S. My Chicago experience relating to the heart of this matter still leaves a sore aftertaste in my mouth. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be this paranoid.

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[yaah]

The short answer (I will think about it and add more later if need be) is that most of these conversations involve them telling you you are a great candidate, you impressed the committee, etc. Then they ask you in general a couple of things:

1) Do you have any other questions?
2) Is there anyone in our program (residents, certain staff) you would like to talk to?
3) Are there any things you didn't like about our program that we can clarify or explain?
4) Is there anything we can do to convince you to come here (perhaps not asked directly, but hinted at).
5) What did you think of our program/What's your opinion of our program?
6) How does our program compare to others?

They are pretty low stress - question #5-6 were as close as anyone got to asking me about rankings and things like that. They probably won't be expected you to commit to them, just let them know if you are interested or not. A lot of times the purpose of the call is to show that they are interested in you, to make sure you didn't get misconceptions during the interview day, and to try to help you come to a decision. So I guess I would have a couple of questions ready but it's not like another interview. And if you do hint that you would like someone else to talk to you, it will happen fairly quickly!

 

[beary]

P.P.S. My Chicago experience relating to the heart of this matter still leaves a sore aftertaste in my mouth. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be this paranoid.

AndyM - What was your Chicago experience?

I think it is great that you are getting so many positive letters from programs.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Yeah, the Chicago experience was a topic of discussion a little whiles ago. Instead of typing it all out, I'll just put the URL to the thread below:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=165349
Again, the Chicago experience wasn't a bad one. Overall, I enjoyed the visit and see it as a place that is very friendly and accomodating to those who are devoted to a career in research. It was the pressure tactic that was a bit of a turnoff.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

1) Do you have any other questions?
2) Is there anyone in our program (residents, certain staff) you would like to talk to?
3) Are there any things you didn't like about our program that we can clarify or explain?
4) Is there anything we can do to convince you to come here (perhaps not asked directly, but hinted at).
5) What did you think of our program/What's your opinion of our program?
6) How does our program compare to others?

It happened once...then it happened again. You were pretty dead on yaah. I was asked (1), (3), (5), (6). (6) was coupled with, "Where else have you gone since you visited us?"

 

[garfield]

Our program director is thinking about trying a new thing this year to get feedback on ways to improve the interview experience. Instead of contacting folks right after interviews like some programs (which feels like pressure), they may write some brief questionnaire like: "What did you think of our program/What's your opinion of our program? How does our program compare to others?" and send it to the interviewees after the rank lists are turned in. Doubt many people would turn those things in... probably would go straight in most people's trash like any other tired grocery survey.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Our program director is thinking about trying a new thing this year to get feedback on ways to improve the interview experience. Instead of contacting folks right after interviews like some programs (which feels like pressure), they may write some brief questionnaire like: "What did you think of our program/What's your opinion of our program? How does our program compare to others?" and send it to the interviewees after the rank lists are turned in. Doubt many people would turn those things in... probably would go straight in most people's trash like any other tired grocery survey.

Speaking from an applicant point of view, I agree with your last sentence. I probably wouldn't turn them in. Emails may be better though cuz I type faster and requires no postage. All you do is press Reply, type in, "your program is da bomb" and click Send.

Back to the topic though, any other advice regarding how we should conduct ourselves during these post-interview phone correspondences would be very much appreciated. I assure you all that I will do my part to give back...I won't hesitate to be all postastic 'n shiznit about application experiences later this spring. Future applicants have a lot to work with already though based on stuff posted this year and last year especially.