Question

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It happens from time to time, but (usually) the people who do it are a) superstars or b) stupid.

The only reason I’d recommend it is if you’re a 520/4.0 + crazy ECs superstar and the only reason you didn’t end up with an MD acceptance this cycle is because you came up with a poor school list or some such error.

Otherwise, take your DO acceptance and run fast.
 
95% of the time it’s a stupid decision. What are your stats and what did your cycle look like?
 
Goro said:
There was an SDNer who transferred from a DO school to Ross, for the prestige of that MD and his parents told him to. I wonder how that's working out.

The guy also went loose cannon pretty quickly and got a Banhammer smack.
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Ouch
 
Isoval said:
It happens from time to time, but (usually) the people who do it are a) superstars or b) stupid.

The only reason I’d recommend it is if you’re a 520/4.0 + crazy ECs superstar and the only reason you didn’t end up with an MD acceptance this cycle is because you came up with a poor school list or some such error.

Otherwise, take your DO acceptance and run fast.
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OK but what if I can't tell if I'm a superstar or stupid. Anyone else sometimes feel that way?! Like walking out of a test 30 minutes early while everyone else stays the whole time. Like you either messed up baaaaaaad or 2 SDs intelligence-wise above the rest.

Interesting thing to think about.
 
UserUnidentified420 said:
OK but what if I can't tell if I'm a superstar or stupid. Anyone else sometimes feel that way?! Like walking out of a test 30 minutes early while everyone else stays the whole time. Like you either messed up baaaaaaad or 2 SDs intelligence-wise above the rest.

Interesting thing to think about.
Click to expand...

Do you have a 520 and a 4.0? Did you save a little Nigerian kid from the jaws of a crocodile during your Peace Corps assignment?

If not, then you’re the latter. I kid, but you need to realize that you’re unlikely to regain an acceptance to another DO school, so you need to be “basically sure” your decision isn’t a mistake. Don’t do this with a 512 and a 3.7.

If you can’t “basically guarantee” that you’ll either get an MD acceptance or regain a DO acceptance, you’re stupid to pass up a DO acceptance unless there’s something else you’d rather do with your life.
 
I'm planning on going DO this year with "MD stats," whatever those are. I've actually received multiple PMs on the forums from posters who have dropped out of DO acceptances and reapplied MD the next year telling me it's not a lost cause and that they got x, y, z, MD accepts after reapplying and that I don't have to go DO just because that's where I've been accepted this cycle. People definitely do it, but I just don't think they're very public about it because it's not a popular opinion here.
 
calivianya said:
I'm planning on going DO this year with "MD stats," whatever those are. I've actually received multiple PMs on the forums from posters who have dropped out of DO acceptances and reapplied MD the next year telling me it's not a lost cause and that they got x, y, z, MD accepts after reapplying and that I don't have to go DO just because that's where I've been accepted this cycle. People definitely do it, but I just don't think they're very public about it because it's not a popular opinion here.
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That’s bevause it’s still a dumb decision if you’re not “basically sure” it’ll work out for you.

You’re throwing away a sure thing for a toss up in most cases.
 
DO may have less prestige, but juggling your ability to be a physician at all by reapplying MD or MD/DO is a risk.

Plus, the cost of another application cycle with the large school list you’ll have to do, secondaries and interview travel, along with losing a whole year’s salary as a physician and playing this crazy application game for another year of your life wouldn’t be worth it to me.
 
Cinemed said:
My thing is like... why would you ever apply DO if you planned to refuse the acceptance?
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Unfortunately the result of the "pre-med" mentality. I.e. "Gotta hustle and get good grades so I can get into medical school. I would be grateful if any medical school accepts me...". Multiple acceptances later "Man, now that I got these prestigious DO acceptances, maybe I'm more competitive than I thought. I think I should have put my chips all in MD. Maybe I can drop these acceptances and try for an MD school..."

This story happens all the time here. It doesn't take much to sit and think if you want MD so bad then put all your chips in MD for one cycle. Then take 2 years to improve and then go MD and DO. It amazes me how book smart people are, but lack in the common sense department...
 
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Cinemed said:
My thing is like... why would you ever apply DO if you planned to refuse the acceptance?
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FOMO, definitely, and maybe a thought that it was a small, fixable factor that could move things in favor of an MD acceptance next cycle.

I can almost see the logic for someone who applied both in the first place because he/she thought she wouldn't be competitive enough for MD, and actually got MD interviews but failed to get off the wait list or something. Common logic is if you have an interview at a school, you have a shot at that school... and the thinking likely translates into, "Well, I had more of a shot than I thought after all, and all the things I did this year while I was applying could only help my application for next year..."

Still not taking the chance myself, but I can see the reasoning. I'd wager the people that receive zero MD interviews don't make the decision to reapply after a DO acceptance.
 
calivianya said:
I'm planning on going DO this year with "MD stats," whatever those are. I've actually received multiple PMs on the forums from posters who have dropped out of DO acceptances and reapplied MD the next year telling me it's not a lost cause and that they got x, y, z, MD accepts after reapplying and that I don't have to go DO just because that's where I've been accepted this cycle. People definitely do it, but I just don't think they're very public about it because it's not a popular opinion here.
Click to expand...
I Def wouldn't recommend it. I hope you will get accepted to NOVA MD so you won' have to make that decision. Still though, are you planning on taking a gap year?
 
Isoval said:
Do you have a 520 and a 4.0? Did you save a little Nigerian kid from the jaws of a crocodile during your Peace Corps assignment?

If not, then you’re the latter. I kid, but you need to realize that you’re unlikely to regain an acceptance to another DO school, so you need to be “basically sure” your decision isn’t a mistake. Don’t do this with a 512 and a 3.7.

If you can’t “basically guarantee” that you’ll either get an MD acceptance or regain a DO acceptance, you’re stupid to pass up a DO acceptance unless there’s something else you’d rather do with your life.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you're getting "basically sure" and "basically guarantee" quotes from. But anywho.

If OP isn't happy with the DO acceptances, that mentality will carry over to OPP class and affect more of their schooling life than they realize right now. Also, if OP regrets going into DO, the next 4 years will pretty much be torture and the decision to go DO might be the mistake. Self-hating DO students are super unhappy.
 
UserUnidentified420 said:
Not sure where you're getting "basically sure" and "basically guarantee" quotes from. But anywho.

If OP isn't happy with the DO acceptances, that mentality will carry over to OPP class and affect more of their schooling life than they realize right now. Also, if OP regrets going into DO, the next 4 years will pretty much be torture and the decision to go DO might be the mistake. Self-hating DO students are super unhappy.
Click to expand...

There’s a simple fix for that: don’t apply to DO schools.

Problem solved.
 
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I don't think it's as crazy as others have outlined, especially if the DO admit is at one of the programs screaming for administrative oversight (e.g. Western Lebanon, MSU, ICOM) and if they are already working on whatever tanked their app the first time around.
 
Skiiiiiing said:
I don't think it's as crazy as others have outlined, especially if the DO admit is at one of the programs screaming for administrative oversight (e.g. Western Lebanon, MSU, ICOM) and if they are already working on whatever tanked their app the first time around.
Click to expand...

What's up at Western Lebanon?
 
Goro said:
There was an SDNer who transferred from a DO school to Ross, for the prestige of that MD and his parents told him to. I wonder how that's working out.

The guy also went loose cannon pretty quickly and got a Banhammer smack.
Click to expand...

Funny, I know of a student who went to Ross for 1 year, applied to DO schools while at Ross, got accepted to DO school and started over. He's an Ortho Surgeon now (Did his Fellowship at HSS which is FREAKING CRAZY).
 
MADD!!! said:
Funny, I know of a student who went to Ross for 1 year, applied to DO schools while at Ross, got accepted to DO school and started over. He's an Ortho Surgeon now (Did his Fellowship at HSS which is FREAKING CRAZY).
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Such a guy would be DOA at my school, unless the reason for leaving was medical.
 
MADD!!! said:
Funny, I know of a student who went to Ross for 1 year, applied to DO schools while at Ross, got accepted to DO school and started over. He's an Ortho Surgeon now (Did his Fellowship at HSS which is FREAKING CRAZY).
Click to expand...

These transfers are more common than people realize on here. However, they still need to do well in school and would have to start the year again (since you need to learn the OMM LOL).
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
It isn’t really that crazy. Fellowship is a different ball game. I’ve seen people get to those types of fellowships from AOA programs.
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Goro said:
Such a guy would be DOA at my school, unless the reason for leaving was medical.
Click to expand...

IslandStyle808 said:
These transfers are more common than people realize on here. However, they still need to do well in school and would have to start the year again (since you need to learn the OMM LOL).
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HSS for fellowship is as good as it gets. So that’s crazy if it’s possible going there from an AOA program.

It was at WesternU

He started over from year 1 and said it was worth it. Being a DO has helped him for his specialty too. He does limb lengthening
 
MADD!!! said:
HSS for fellowship is as good as it gets. So that’s crazy if it’s possible going there from an AOA program.

It was at WesternU

He started over from year 1 and said it was worth it. Being a DO has helped him for his specialty too. He does limb lengthening
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Not really crazy and doesn't seem to be that far of an uphill battle. Like its cool and prestigious but isn't all that rare. Every year there is a DO program director talking about how they matched people for fellowship at hopkins, HSS, Duke, ect. In ortho the rate limiting step is getting a residency.
 
DNC127 said:
Not really crazy and doesn't seem to be that far of an uphill battle. Like its cool and prestigious but isn't all that rare. Every year there is a DO program director talking about how they matched people for fellowship at hopkins, HSS, Duke, ect. In ortho the rate limiting step is getting a residency.
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That’s really good because based on that fellowship it can open better job opportunities at more prestigious academic centers and practices. Competitive or not I think it would boost a CV like crazy
 
I recently got into ICOM. I have a 505 (123 on biology being lowest section). I got 1 MD interview (out of 10) and was rejected. I got 3 DO interviews (out of 4) and was waitlisted at 2 and accepted to 1. Should I reapply MD or take this acceptance and run? The school does look promising but it's also new. Thank you.
 
DNC127 said:
Not really crazy and doesn't seem to be that far of an uphill battle. Like its cool and prestigious but isn't all that rare. Every year there is a DO program director talking about how they matched people for fellowship at hopkins, HSS, Duke, ect. In ortho the rate limiting step is getting a residency.
Click to expand...

There was an ortho resident on SDN that did mention about matching into fellowship. However, residency is not always the rate limiting step. There are fellowships who would rather leave a fellowship spot open than take a DO (think this held true for those that did ACGME ortho residencies also).
 
stiden201 said:
I recently got into ICOM. I have a 505 (123 on biology being lowest section). I got 1 MD interview (out of 10) and was rejected. I got 3 DO interviews (out of 4) and was waitlisted at 2 and accepted to 1. Should I reapply MD or take this acceptance and run? The school does look promising but it's also new. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Why do you think that as of right now, you're a competitive candidate for MD schools with a 505 MCAT and 123 Bio score??? If you're boning for that MD, I strongly suggest a retake.
 
Goro said:
Why do you think that as of right now, you're a competitive candidate for MD schools with a 505 MCAT and 123 Bio score??? If you're boning for that MD, I strongly suggest a retake.
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Do you think it’s worth the risk of an mcat retake?
 
IslandStyle808 said:
There was an ortho resident on SDN that did mention about matching into fellowship. However, residency is not always the rate limiting step. There are fellowships who would rather leave a fellowship spot open than take a DO (think this held true for those that did ACGME ortho residencies also).
Click to expand...

Im just saying I have talked to multiple residency programs that have placed multiple residents over the last couple years in fellowships at ivory towers and HSS type places. Our home program put someone into Duke last year.. ect. Its not like matching acgme ortho where you only see 1 or 2 a year if that.
 
stiden201 said:
I recently got into ICOM. I have a 505 (123 on biology being lowest section). I got 1 MD interview (out of 10) and was rejected. I got 3 DO interviews (out of 4) and was waitlisted at 2 and accepted to 1. Should I reapply MD or take this acceptance and run? The school does look promising but it's also new. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Take the ICOM acceptance and run.

If you decline a DO acceptance, DO schools will be aware of that fact if you choose to re-apply in the future; there's a good chance you wouldn't be able to get into a DO school again for at least another few cycles... and if you were to end up failing to boost your MCAT score, you wouldn't be able to get an MD acceptance either. In other words, you would run the risk of ending up in limbo for a few years.

Also, each year delayed is a loss of one year of physician's salary (from the end of your career -- $300K? $400K?). Assuming you could delay a year and get into an MD program, is the difference between MD and DO worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to you?
 
stiden201 said:
Do you think it’s worth the risk of an mcat retake?
Click to expand...
No. I have a 506 with <125 in the c/p section and a >3.8 GPA. I had an MD interview at one of my state schools and was WL'ed. I received 5 DO acceptances.

There is no way I would drop my DO acceptances to take a gamble at MD just because I got WL'ed at one interview, and I don't think you should do that with one MD rejection. Especially with your poor section being bio, which a lot of people have said is the most important. Take your acceptance, be a doctor, don't potentially lose the salary or your chance for having a career.
 
MADD!!! said:
That’s really good because based on that fellowship it can open better job opportunities at more prestigious academic centers and practices. Competitive or not I think it would boost a CV like crazy
Click to expand...

There was a AOA ortho resident thread that said otherwise. Doing fellowship at a prestigious place does not really open doors for you in academic ortho. They care about where you did your residency training, as one year at HSS does not make you “HSS trained.”

stiden201 said:
I recently got into ICOM. I have a 505 (123 on biology being lowest section). I got 1 MD interview (out of 10) and was rejected. I got 3 DO interviews (out of 4) and was waitlisted at 2 and accepted to 1. Should I reapply MD or take this acceptance and run? The school does look promising but it's also new. Thank you.
Click to expand...

No. Not with that MCAT score and especially not with a 123 bio.

IslandStyle808 said:
There was an ortho resident on SDN that did mention about matching into fellowship. However, residency is not always the rate limiting step. There are fellowships who would rather leave a fellowship spot open than take a DO (think this held true for those that did ACGME ortho residencies also).
Click to expand...

Yeah but those programs are much more infrequent than residency programs. Those fellowship applicants will most likely still get a fellowship and at a decent place too.
 
DNC127 said:
Im just saying I have talked to multiple residency programs that have placed multiple residents over the last couple years in fellowships at ivory towers and HSS type places. Our home program put someone into Duke last year.. ect. Its not like matching acgme ortho where you only see 1 or 2 a year if that.
Click to expand...
Could somebody tell me what is HSS???
 
DNC127 said:
Yeah but those programs are much more infrequent than residency programs. Those fellowship applicants will most likely still get a fellowship and at a decent place too.
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I acknowledged this from DNC 127 next post. It happens to a far far lesser degree your right, but few fellowships still do this.
 
stiden201 said:
I recently got into ICOM. I have a 505 (123 on biology being lowest section). I got 1 MD interview (out of 10) and was rejected. I got 3 DO interviews (out of 4) and was waitlisted at 2 and accepted to 1. Should I reapply MD or take this acceptance and run? The school does look promising but it's also new. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I gave this a lot of thought.

With these 60k per year, rural programs that have limited/no 3rd and 4th year support...they're really a roll of the dice with respect to a couple of factors:
1. That the residency crunch will not materialize
2. That the extraordinary explosion in number of DO seats - often at schools without hospitals or with few on-site faculty - will not lead to a decline in the perception of the quality of the degree.
3. That you will succeed academically in traditional coursework and in finding good clinical rotation sites with little or no administrative support.

While I would say the respective risks are very low, somewhat low, and dependent on your personal situation, COCA has set a course for uncharted waters with respect to how they are managing the brand, and, if any of those risks materialize, the downside is $400k of non-bankruptable debt for a degree that is useless outside of medicine.

Whether you want to plunk down 400k to go on a pioneering adventure with COCA, or take another year, another MCAT, and hold out for at least a solid DO program is your call.
 
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Trollest said:
I Def wouldn't recommend it. I hope you will get accepted to NOVA MD so you won' have to make that decision. Still though, are you planning on taking a gap year?
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No more gap years! :laugh: I'm in one now. I've worked full time in my field for nearly five years now, and I'm so burned out it literally makes me feel ill thinking about working another year instead of starting med school this summer. I got into my top choice DO, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. 🙂
 
calivianya said:
No more gap years! :laugh: I'm in one now. I've worked full time in my field for nearly five years now, and I'm so burned out it literally makes me feel ill thinking about working another year instead of starting med school this summer. I got into my top choice DO, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. 🙂
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Im with you on that one, this last month of work(industrial chemistry ) is absolute misery knowing I go back to school in 3 months
 
Is it really that hard to get into an MD school nowdays?

fldoctorgirl said:
No. I have a 506 with <125 in the c/p section and a >3.8 GPA. I had an MD interview at one of my state schools and was WL'ed. I received 5 DO acceptances.

There is no way I would drop my DO acceptances to take a gamble at MD just because I got WL'ed at one interview, and I don't think you should do that with one MD rejection. Especially with your poor section being bio, which a lot of people have said is the most important. Take your acceptance, be a doctor, don't potentially lose the salary or your chance for having a career.
Click to expand...
 
GypsyHummus said:
Is it really that hard to get into an MD school nowdays?
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I completed 25 secondaries with a 515 MCAT, >10,000 clinical hours, and a >3.5 c/s gpa with a >3.8 post bacc c/s GPA, and can't get in MD, if that counts for anything. :laugh:

I do have some glaring holes in my other ECs, though.
 
GypsyHummus said:
Is it really that hard to get into an MD school nowdays?
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I don't know. I think MD schools just care about the MCAT a lot. Yes, it's not going to make your app if you have a great score but are lacking in other fields. But, on the same token, it can destroy an otherwise good app. I saw people with 505's and ~ my GPA snag acceptances, but it's on the rare side. I also assume they didn't have any subsections below 125, which I believe is what hurt me. Also, they were at schools like the HBCUs or they were URM (not hating on these paths, just saying it like it is).

If we're being totally truthful, my MCAT was unbalanced. I killed CARS and psych, but did average-below average on C/P and bio. Looking back, my study approach was ineffective. However, I made the calculated decision to start working towards my career now rather than delay a year just to get an MD. It's a personal decision.
 
If I had less than a 500 the decision to retake the MCAT would be easier because there's more room for upside (and I probably wouldn't have gotten a DO acceptance with that score either). However, with a 505 it's tricky because doing worse could hurt a lot (no more DO offers) and I'd need to kill it to get a meaningful application improvement.
 
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