Questions about internship

[Semimoon]

Why do you go to an internship?

For an internship, you get 30000 a year, after that you get one year experience, then hunt for a new job or go to residency.

For a job, you get at least 60000 ayear, after that you get one year experience, then stay the same job or go to residency.

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[hygebeorht]

The idea is that internship is equivalent to several years of general practice. You work long hours, see a bunch of emergency and otherwise interesting cases that might never darken your door in day practice. Since learning is a function of how many cases you see, it more or less works that way.

Also, there is literally no residency program on this planet that would take someone after just one year of general practice (possible exceptions being programs that don't require internships, such as pathology or lab animal medicine). Most want to see multiple years in the "real world," and getting back into residency training after time spent in general practice is considered extremely difficult.

 

[Semimoon]

Thank you for replying

The idea is that internship is equivalent to several years of general practice.

Is this idea normally accepted by everyone?
Assume you done an internship, if you want to go residency, you will certainly beat someone with one year private clinic experience? Or, if you want to go practice, you will certainly get paid like a three years experienced vet?

 

[JaynaAli]

Assume you done an internship, if you want to go residency, you will certainly beat someone with one year private clinic experience? Or, if you want to go practice, you will certainly get paid like a three years experienced vet?

There are few certainties in life. You definitely can't guarantee that doing an internship will boost your pay if you were to go into GP. It might, but it many cases it may not. There are so many more factors that go into choosing a residency candidate than only their experience. I do believe that in the vast majority of instances, yes, a program will likely go with the internship-trained veterinarian over someone who did "just" a year in private practice. But who you know, who is writing you letter of recommendation, how strong those letters are, and how well people think you will mesh with their existing group are also very important factors and in theory if the non-internship grad is the best candidate, they may take them. But in reality, most residencies are insanely competitive and, like Hyge said, it seems unlikely. Maybe not impossible, but unlikely. Heck, for many specialties, people have to do TWO internships before snagging a residency. There is also a sense of 'paying your dues', be it right or wrong, surrounding the internship/residency process.

But something else that Hyge didn't mention is that an internship also typically provides much more intense mentorship/guidance that going directly into practice. My best friend went straight into GP and while the other vet at her practice is there for consultation if she needs, she is on her own most of the time. It works for her most of the time. As an intern, I had a specialist or experienced doctor on each case with me to discuss and help me learn/plan. I definitely learned a lot. I believe I could have been an adequate GP. After my internship though, I feel like I am definitely a much better doctor than I would have been otherwise. Sometimes that is worth such a dramatically lower salary for a year to some people. I personally wouldn't have done an internship if I wasn't pursuing a residency, but two other interns at my program both went into GP and are happy.

Also, it is pretty tough to get a residency position without a letter of recommendation from a specialist in that field. If you are in GP, it can be more difficult to make those connections than if you are an intern who rotates through those services and they get to know you. Those rotations will also likely let you make sure you truly like that specialty from the 'doctor' side of things. Sure, a GP could probably set up experiences like that, but it's easier for an intern, imo.

 

[DVMDream]

The idea is that internship is equivalent to several years of general practice.

I disagree with this. Kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[LetItSnow]

The idea is that internship is equivalent to several years of general practice. You work long hours, see a bunch of emergency and otherwise interesting cases that might never darken your door in day practice. Since learning is a function of how many cases you see, it more or less works that way.

If the idea worked out to reality I think it would be useful. And it's more than just "equivalent to several years of general practice." The idea is that you see cases, you have people (residents, clinicians) who are reviewing your cases and offering guidance/critique.

That said, I'm a few years out now and I see a lot of interns and I pretty strongly feel that my first year in practice (no internship) grew me <at least> as much as the majority of internship-trained people I've seen.

Caveat: I was in a fairly unique setting of working high-volume ER work surrounded by many specialists for the second half of that first year. It was almost the same as doing an internship, but without the formality.

There are few certainties in life. You definitely can't guarantee that doing an internship will boost your pay if you were to go into GP. It might, but it many cases it may not.

Truth. We've hired internship-trained people, and they make exactly the same as the rest of us who aren't internship-trained.

Honestly, it's only my small little set of data points, but I just haven't found internship-trained people to be any further ahead than anyone else. I think it's great for people that just aren't confident going out into practice, though. And for people planning residencies (since most residencies require it).

But, I think "There are few certainties in life" is pretty dang applicable to the "do I do an internship or not?" question. There are good reasons to do it. There are good reasons not to. It's pretty situational.

But I do take issue with "interns are better trained than people who go out into the workforce." That assumption just hasn't played out in my experience.

 

[Trilt]

I think internships just set you up with a different set of skills than standard year out in practice. I would have loved to do an internship... if it paid as well as private practice, and I didn't have to move for it. I'm sure I'd be much better with the random emergencies that come into our clinic, and I do miss getting actually diagnoses' all the time like we did when there were specialists and people always had money. But GP has its own set of knowledge you figure out and is just... different.

I do disagree that it's equivalent to three years of private practice, though. I think, like DVMD, that it's kinda apples and oranges.

 

[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

If the financial aspect is the only variable looked at (for year one of practice), no one would do internships - looking at that first year out of school, you'll be making less money and your student loans will accrue more interest (since you can't pay any money back because you can't afford it). An internship always requires evaluation of many factors and what your future goal is!

Also, it is important to differentiate good internships vs not so good internships. Just like it is important to differentiate jobs in private practice. For example, a GP job where one is the only practitioner can't be compared to the example given by LetItSnow where he was exposed to many cases and was around multiple specialists.
Just like an internship where most specialties are represented can't really be compared to one where there's only one criticalist and one surgeon for example.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

There are good reasons and not so good reasons to do an internship. Let's start with the not so good ones.

1. Make more money.
Veterinarians who do an internship do not earn more overall than those who go right into general practice (Fanning and Shepherd JAVMA 2011). However, those that go on to a residency and become board certified often DO make more, depending on the specific specialty.

2. Not ready for a real job
An internship is a real job. You are treating real patients with real diseases owned by real clients. On average you will work longer hours than your peers going into general practice: >75% of interns work >60 hours/week compared to <25% of private pracitioners (Shepherd and Pikel JAVMA 2013). If you aren't ready for a real job, you aren't ready for an internship.

Good reasons to apply
1. You want to do a residency and become a board-certified specialist. Many residencies require first completing a rotating internship or "equivalent experience," although this is rarely defined. But the reality is for the more competitive residencies (surgery, neurology, ophthalmology, etc) if you have not done a rotating internship you are not going to be competitive.

Also, if you are considering a residency, a rotating internship is often useful in helping you clarify this decision. Working as a clinician on the various specialty services often let's you know for sure if you want to do that the rest of your career or not. For example, as a student you may love neurology. But if you don't love seeing patients that are paralyzed, seizing or in a stupor and doing spine surgery in the middle of the night you probably aren't going to love being a neurologist. Loving neurology and loving being a neurologist are two very different things. (Insert whatever specialty you are interested in).

2. Gain more mentored training to practice higher quality medicine. This is the most common reason cited for doing an internship in one survey (Shepherd JAVMA 2013).

You might ask "Won't I be more competitive when applying for a GP position if I have done an internship, compared to a new graduate?" The answer is yes -- but that's the wrong question. What you really want to know is are you more competitive with an internship compared to someone with 1 year experience as a GP? And overall the answer is no. Many practice owners/managers don't feel an internship is an advantage compared to GP experience. Of course there are some exceptions. In my experience practice owners that did an internship or have hired intern trained DVMs are more likely to consider an internship an advantage. And I know several large equine practices who only hire intern-trained DVMs. But overall, if you goal is GP, it's not an economic advantage to do an internship.

William Thomas

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Thank you for replying

The idea is that internship is equivalent to several years of general practice.

Is this idea normally accepted by everyone?
Assume you done an internship, if you want to go residency, you will certainly beat someone with one year private clinic experience? Or, if you want to go practice, you will certainly get paid like a three years experienced vet?

No, it is absolutely not accepted by everyone, and in fact, there are some vets (a lot of vets?) who think the opposite. When I have worked with vets who've finished an internship, they were in a worse position for general practice than a straight-from-vet-school new grad. N=3, though I have heard similar things from other vets.....the just-finished interns may have known more about thoroughly treating some medical issues, but they knew less about clients and general practice. I think the ONLY reason to do an internship is if you are planning to do a residency.

 

[SocialStigma]

It's not possible to match to most residency programs now without having completed a rotating internship, at a minimum (exceptions being path and lab animal). Some candidates go on to complete specialty internship(s) afterwards too before matching to a residency. Even if you had 10+ years in GP, you would likely still have to complete a rotating internship before applying to residencies. Probably depends on the specialty too but at least for surgery, there is a strong preference for candidates who haven't been out in practice for a long time.

My personal take: I knew I wanted to specialize so I never thought about not doing an internship. I think I would've still pursued an internship even if I wanted to go into GP because I liked the extra year of mentorship, and for me that alone would have been worth it. At the end of the internship I felt much more comfortable with managing emergency cases (seizing patient, GDV, HBC, DKA, hemoabdomen, etc), but not comfortable at all with routine things like derm and dentistry.

 

[DVMDream]

It's not possible to match to most residency programs now without having completed a rotating internship, at a minimum (exceptions being path and lab animal). Some candidates go on to complete specialty internship(s) afterwards too before matching to a residency. Even if you had 10+ years in GP, you would likely still have to complete a rotating internship before applying to residencies. Probably depends on the specialty too but at least for surgery, there is a strong preference for candidates who haven't been out in practice for a long time.

My personal take: I knew I wanted to specialize so I never thought about not doing an internship. I think I would've still pursued an internship even if I wanted to go into GP because I liked the extra year of mentorship, and for me that alone would have been worth it. At the end of the internship I felt much more comfortable with managing emergency cases (seizing patient, GDV, HBC, DKA, hemoabdomen, etc), but not comfortable at all with routine things like derm and dentistry.

Derm is a lot of what I see as a GP. All the skin and all the ears. I actually was working with an ER clinician recently (decently well-known) and was helping this person through derm cases. There is a niche for everything. And different things will be learned in different places. Hence, my comment about you can't compare a year of internship to a year out in GP. Yeah, I have yet to manage a DKA, because (really) you can't manage those very well as a GP with no overnight staff, but I can get a chronic renal failure cat on a good plan, fix up skin, manage chronic otits, and heck I even had a string of infectious glomerulonephritis cases my first year in GP. I have seen 4 Addisonians in one year on GP (one atypical). The one GDV I saw was euthanized. All the hemoabdomens have been TTJ. And I resolved the pneumothorax HBC. I mean, I learn fast alone because I don't have any other choice.

If you want to do a residency and specialize, definitely need to do an internship. If your goal is GP, an internship will not give you the equivalent of 3 years GP experience. And you will not get paid more than any other vet with one year of experience. If your goal is ER, an internship may or may not be a bad idea prior to being thrown into the mix, depending on how well you do thinking on your feet and learning on the go.

 

[DVMDream]

No, it is absolutely not accepted by everyone, and in fact, there are some vets (a lot of vets?) who think the opposite. When I have worked with vets who've finished an internship, they were in a worse position for general practice than a straight-from-vet-school new grad. N=3, though I have heard similar things from other vets.....the just-finished interns may have known more about thoroughly treating some medical issues, but they knew less about clients and general practice. I think the ONLY reason to do an internship is if you are planning to do a residency.

I worked with one vet who completed an internship out here in GP land. I was less than impressed when she actively ignored the emergency. Tech brought back a bulldog thing and placed on oxygen. It was reported as a dog having difficulty breathing. She didn't so much as move to look at it- continued trimming another dog's nails. Simply asked the tech.. "is that really an emergency". Tech told her "nah"... No, we just like to place animals on oxygen for ****s and giggles.

So I go over to evaluate... dog is cyanotic on oxygen, you could hear the crackles coming from the dog's chest from across the room. The dog was struggling for air while on O2 and had petechiae all over. So I started stabilizing despite being in the middle of 3 other work-ups while the internship-trained Dr shrugged and continued the toe nail trim. Hey at least she left on time that night?

Yeah. N=1 and I worked with a few great interns my final year of vet school. Just my one internship trained Dr I met out here in GP, I was not impressed. 3 emergencies that day and she actively avoided all 3 of them.

 

[jmo1012]

There are few certainties in life. You definitely can't guarantee that doing an internship will boost your pay if you were to go into GP. It might, but it many cases it may not. There are so many more factors that go into choosing a residency candidate than only their experience. I do believe that in the vast majority of instances, yes, a program will likely go with the internship-trained veterinarian over someone who did "just" a year in private practice. But who you know, who is writing you letter of recommendation, how strong those letters are, and how well people think you will mesh with their existing group are also very important factors and in theory if the non-internship grad is the best candidate, they may take them. But in reality, most residencies are insanely competitive and, like Hyge said, it seems unlikely. Maybe not impossible, but unlikely. Heck, for many specialties, people have to do TWO internships before snagging a residency. There is also a sense of 'paying your dues', be it right or wrong, surrounding the internship/residency process.

The biggest problem with going straight into general practice is that typically the bolded things come from working in a specialty setting. Letters just inherently carry more weight, at least from an academic standpoint, and a vast majority of residency programs are academic. You don't necessarily need to have specialty academic experience, but GP/non-boarded people/non-veterinarians just don't carry the same weight, even if it is an absolutely glowing letter/recommendation. I say this as someone who has been on the reviewing side of things as well as the applying side.

I worked with one vet who completed an internship out here in GP land. I was less than impressed when she actively ignored the emergency. Tech brought back a bulldog thing and placed on oxygen. It was reported as a dog having difficulty breathing. She didn't so much as move to look at it- continued trimming another dog's nails. Simply asked the tech.. "is that really an emergency". Tech told her "nah"... No, we just like to place animals on oxygen for ****s and giggles.

So I go over to evaluate... dog is cyanotic on oxygen, you could hear the crackles coming from the dog's chest from across the room. The dog was struggling for air while on O2 and had petechiae all over. So I started stabilizing despite being in the middle of 3 other work-ups while the internship-trained Dr shrugged and continued the toe nail trim. Hey at least she left on time that night?

Yeah. N=1 and I worked with a few great interns my final year of vet school. Just my one internship trained Dr I met out here in GP, I was not impressed. 3 emergencies that day and she actively avoided all 3 of them.

Ah but what you seem to being try to equate is that internship trained = better at emergencies = likes emergencies. Your colleague sounds very much like someone who probably hated the ER aspect of their internship, actively avoided seeing cases due to the stress and anxiety, and got away from ER ASAP when done. I had several internmates who were competent emergency clinicians who had horrible anxiety and hatred for anything emergent. Didn't matter what the case was, could be as simple as an ear infection or as critical as something on the verge of dying, they hated the "unknown" and "unpredictable" aspect of ER so much that they just wouldn't do it. They were also exceptionally good at pretending it didn't exist and going about their business when anything presented around them, especially when something came in dying and they weren't on shift.

 

[Trilt]

I worked with one vet who completed an internship out here in GP land. I was less than impressed when she actively ignored the emergency. Tech brought back a bulldog thing and placed on oxygen. It was reported as a dog having difficulty breathing. She didn't so much as move to look at it- continued trimming another dog's nails. Simply asked the tech.. "is that really an emergency". Tech told her "nah"... No, we just like to place animals on oxygen for ****s and giggles.

So I go over to evaluate... dog is cyanotic on oxygen, you could hear the crackles coming from the dog's chest from across the room. The dog was struggling for air while on O2 and had petechiae all over. So I started stabilizing despite being in the middle of 3 other work-ups while the internship-trained Dr shrugged and continued the toe nail trim. Hey at least she left on time that night?

Yeah. N=1 and I worked with a few great interns my final year of vet school. Just my one internship trained Dr I met out here in GP, I was not impressed. 3 emergencies that day and she actively avoided all 3 of them.

Meh, this is dependent on the doctor not the internship imo. I work with one doc I sometimes want to strangle because he just has zero urgency about things, ever, and I just kinda hip check him aside for emergencies. He went straight into GP.

Do agree, though, with just kinda... dealing with things. I've had a good few hemoabs, and the neoplastic ones were all easy, but eh, maybe a week or two ago I had my first traumatic hbc hemoab and I was VINing and harassing @LetItSnow on FB and you know, just doing what you can within the constraints of private practice. (She did great btw. Thanks dude. )

For that, sure, an internship probably would have prepared me better. But is that worth a 60k pay cut and uprooting my life for a year? It doesn't help me with my daily skin cases. It doesn't help me with surgery or dentistry. It doesn't help me talk to people about common problems any better, which my year in practice definitely has. My ultrasound and internal medicine diagnostic skills would likely be better, but for better or worse... that's not actually what people care about in their vets. And what I see from the specialty hospitals is just sooo far removed from my life (most initial diagnostics/stabilization waaay more than eats through my standard clients' total budget for treatment) that I just go, hmm, at how applicable that knowledge would be to my day to day.

 

[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

As it was mentioned, and having been both an applicant and a reviewer, you do need letters from specialists to be competitive. A letter from a GP or an ER doctor can be helpful, but not to replace specialist letters. Also, for most, if not every specialty, an internship will be needed.

Further comparing internship trained vs non-internship trained doctors, one must remember what is being compared. An intern will in most cases have less spay experience than a GP simply because the intern was not exposed to those types of cases. Or dermatology as it was mentioned above, if there was no dermatologist at the internship program. On the other hand, an internship trained DVM was exposed to more complex cases and will hopefully be able to better deal with those. Keep in mind I'm comparing one year of experience only.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Further comparing internship trained vs non-internship trained doctors, one must remember what is being compared. An intern will in most cases have less spay experience than a GP simply because the intern was not exposed to those types of cases. Or dermatology as it was mentioned above, if there was no dermatologist at the internship program. On the other hand, an internship trained DVM was exposed to more complex cases and will hopefully be able to better deal with those. Keep in mind I'm comparing one year of experience only.

In my opinion, the most important thing about being a good general practitioner is communication, especially but not exclusively client communication, and academic internships don't offer much training in that (and sometimes not a lot of experience in that). You could be a terrific doctor medically, but if you can't get client compliance for diagnostics, let alone treatment, all your skills and knowledge as an intern-trained vet will be useless. If the client doesn't understand or trust you enough to give the meds your sending home, your patient will suffer......so all this comparison about what types of medicine (or surgery) an internship can help you feel confident about is missing a prime area of learning (and confidence): communication and inter-personal skills.

 

[LetItSnow]

The biggest problem with going straight into general practice is that typically the bolded things come from working in a specialty setting. Letters just inherently carry more weight, at least from an academic standpoint, and a vast majority of residency programs are academic. You don't necessarily need to have specialty academic experience, but GP/non-boarded people/non-veterinarians just don't carry the same weight, even if it is an absolutely glowing letter/recommendation. I say this as someone who has been on the reviewing side of things as well as the applying side.

So you're saying that after 2.5yrs working in a very high volume 24-hr ER job side-by-side with boarded IntMed, Sx, etc. specialists I would have a chance at being competitive for a residency? I would not have thought that's the way things were. I was under the impression that the overwhelming majority of residencies really wanted an internship.

(No, I'm not considering it. This is hypothetical 100%. As far as I'm concerned I have the best of both worlds right now.)

 

[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

In my opinion, the most important thing about being a good general practitioner is communication, especially but not exclusively client communication, and academic internships don't offer much training in that (and sometimes not a lot of experience in that). You could be a terrific doctor medically, but if you can't get client compliance for diagnostics, let alone treatment, all your skills and knowledge as an intern-trained vet will be useless. If the client doesn't understand or trust you enough to give the meds your sending home, your patient will suffer......so all this comparison about what types of medicine (or surgery) an internship can help you feel confident about is missing a prime area of learning (and confidence): communication and inter-personal skills.

Totally agree. Worth noting that more and more internship programs (likely all academic) are now incorporating a communication component/training. This started with the students and is now being applied to both interns and 1st year residents.

So you're saying that after 2.5yrs working in a very high volume 24-hr ER job side-by-side with boarded IntMed, Sx, etc. specialists I would have a chance at being competitive for a residency? I would not have thought that's the way things were. I was under the impression that the overwhelming majority of residencies really wanted an internship.

(No, I'm not considering it. This is hypothetical 100%. As far as I'm concerned I have the best of both worlds right now.)

You'd be more competitive than a similar applicant working without the specialty services you mentioned and therefore unable to get letters of reference from those specialists.
If you'd get a residency without an internship? that would depend on the specialty. You probably would have to do an internship for the most common ones, since most program descriptions highlight that as a requirement. Bottom line it would depend on the selection committee to decide if they'd rank you or discard your application due to lack of internship. You'd have to contact each program individually and ask them if they'd consider someone in your situation.

 

[DVMDream]

The biggest problem with going straight into general practice is that typically the bolded things come from working in a specialty setting. Letters just inherently carry more weight, at least from an academic standpoint, and a vast majority of residency programs are academic. You don't necessarily need to have specialty academic experience, but GP/non-boarded people/non-veterinarians just don't carry the same weight, even if it is an absolutely glowing letter/recommendation. I say this as someone who has been on the reviewing side of things as well as the applying side.


Ah but what you seem to being try to equate is that internship trained = better at emergencies = likes emergencies. Your colleague sounds very much like someone who probably hated the ER aspect of their internship, actively avoided seeing cases due to the stress and anxiety, and got away from ER ASAP when done. I had several internmates who were competent emergency clinicians who had horrible anxiety and hatred for anything emergent. Didn't matter what the case was, could be as simple as an ear infection or as critical as something on the verge of dying, they hated the "unknown" and "unpredictable" aspect of ER so much that they just wouldn't do it. They were also exceptionally good at pretending it didn't exist and going about their business when anything presented around them, especially when something came in dying and they weren't on shift.

Guess I should have mentioned she was always tooting her own horn about how she loves emergencies and is the best at them because of her internship. Definitely more a reflection of the person and was definitely just stating my own opinion of the single internship trained GP I've dealt with. Of course not everyone will be like that.

 

[jmo1012]

So you're saying that after 2.5yrs working in a very high volume 24-hr ER job side-by-side with boarded IntMed, Sx, etc. specialists I would have a chance at being competitive for a residency? I would not have thought that's the way things were. I was under the impression that the overwhelming majority of residencies really wanted an internship.

(No, I'm not considering it. This is hypothetical 100%. As far as I'm concerned I have the best of both worlds right now.)

As was mentioned by someone else above, you would be more competitive than someone who had not worked with those people (although truthfully, someone who had not would not be considered competitive). Curious though, when you say you are working side-by-side with these specialists, are you working primarily weekday, daytime ER?

 

[LetItSnow]

As was mentioned by someone else above, you would be more competitive than someone who had not worked with those people (although truthfully, someone who had not would not be considered competitive). Curious though, when you say you are working side-by-side with these specialists, are you working primarily weekday, daytime ER?

I work all hours. But probably about half are weekday (with full specialty coverage) or Saturday day (IntMed and Sx coverage). The other half of my hours are probably without specialists in hospital (except for when they've been called in for a procedure) because of night or Sunday hours or because I'm at one of our other facilities (that doesn't have specialists).

We have a bit of an unusual set-up. We are co-located with BluePearl at 2 of our 7 hospitals. Our practice provides the ER receiving, they provide the specialty care. Most surgeries we turf to the BP surgeon (but not all - I still cut most GDVs and C-sections since they tend to be more time-sensitive; and I cut other typical ER cases when the client doesn't want to turf - usually because I can do it for $500 or so cheaper than BP). It is very typical (daily, multiple cases) for us to intake a patient, do the initial work-up/therapy, and transfer it into BluePearl in the morning. We round with BP twice a day.

Didn't really want to distract, though. I have zero interest in residency. Less than zero.

 

[iamapm]

In my opinion, the most important thing about being a good general practitioner is communication, especially but not exclusively client communication, and academic internships don't offer much training in that (and sometimes not a lot of experience in that). You could be a terrific doctor medically, but if you can't get client compliance for diagnostics, let alone treatment, all your skills and knowledge as an intern-trained vet will be useless. If the client doesn't understand or trust you enough to give the meds your sending home, your patient will suffer......so all this comparison about what types of medicine (or surgery) an internship can help you feel confident about is missing a prime area of learning (and confidence): communication and inter-personal skills.

So, true!

After having a number of new grads coming through our high quality medicine practice, one of the major challenges is having them understand that connecting with clients is THE must important factor in having the clients trust them enough to accept their recommendations. Being able explain a condition and the recommendations w/o using medical terms in a clear concise conversational way is vital. I could also go on about the limitations of any new graduate.

 

[DVMDream]

I could also go on about the limitations of any new graduate.

Being a newer graduate, so could I. But I can say that the vast majority of new graduates are well aware of their short comings. The only way a new graduate becomes a strong, experienced vet is through a clinic giving them a chance and the support they need instead of judging them for being "a noob".

 

[dyachei]

Being a newer graduate, so could I. But I can say that the vast majority of new graduates are well aware of their short comings. The only way a new graduate becomes a strong, experienced vet is through a clinic giving them a chance and the support they need instead of judging them for being "a noob".

Still totally judging you

 

[DVMDream]

Still totally judging you

Didn't you do that, like 7 years ago? Not much left to judge...