Questions for D.O. doctors- interview

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

LongApple

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
"So why D.O.? Why not an MD or naturopath. "
1.^ Because you believe in osteopathic tenets and like them more than the corresponding MD ones / hippocratic oath.

But why? My instinct is that because they are wholesome. First one especially
Osteopathic medicine in the United States - Wikipedia

But is this a common answer? If you didn't describe them as just wholesome, what are some other ways you described the good aspects of the tenets of osteopathic medicine?

2. But then what's wrong the Hippocratic Oath and MD tenet? Or naturopathic tenets? What do you feel is lacking in them?

Did you talk about the negative parts of MD school tenets in your interview?

3. At any point, did you mention that you are unable to get into MD schools? Is it common / advised just not to say this ever? Do they ask?

4. Should you avoid mentioning that you didn't know what D.O. was until you realized there was a good chance of being rejected by MD schools? I admit this is my case.
 
Naturopath doesn’t belong in the same convo. Full stop.

Most of us are here because we couldn’t get MD and don’t buy into most of it.

Don’t mention anything about it, it’s common knowledge, just research the school itself and bring up positives about the school as reasons why you wanna go there. Search on here for more answers to the “why DO?” Question.

It’s all the same in the end, we just take a different route to get there and don’t have as good of a shot at some residencies
 
I would strongly advise against answering a "Why D.O." question by criticizing MD. Just point out what you like about osteopathic medicine. If asked why not MD, I think you should still lead with what's positive about MD and then again, point out the differences to DO to answer.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
 
1. You applied to medical school more than once. The first time, you only applied to MD schools and you didn't get into any. Second time you applied, now you apply to some D.O. schools.

What is a good way to talk about this in the interview? Would it ever come up?

"You want to be a D.O. But then why didn't you apply to our school or any D.O. last year?

I assume for many of you it is because you have heard there are some situations where D.O. doctors are at a disadvantage. In fact, you might have heard this on SDN.

However, my instinct is that this is an awful answer.

What are better answers that have been given?
 
liking OMM

I'm censoring this immediately.

For people who liked OMM and said this, I am wondering how it turned out.

I'm trying to envision how it turned out, but my imagined version lacks the passion and heart that I would imagine of someone genuinely interested in OMM.

I really want to know how someone liking OMM would think/say. Can anyone who has talked about how they like

>>"But why do you like osteopathic manipulations"

"It looks interesting. Like a chiropractor"

>>"But what is so interesting about about OMM?"

"Well using my hands looks interesting"

>>"Yes but you use your hands in other jobs"

"Yes but OMM looks like a really - really interesting way to use hands and help people.

>>"Then why not just be a chiropractor?"

"Because I really want to be a doctor"

What are more developed answers than these? Anyone have passion for OMM who can chime in who they would describe their passion in the interview?
 
I brought up that I liked having another tool to treat chronic and musculoskeletal pain in the face of the opioid "epidemic." I don't think either specialty that I'm trying for will have a place for OMM, but I think that's a rational reason to want to learn it... or to say that.
 
I'm censoring this immediately.

For people who liked OMM and said this, I am wondering how it turned out.

I'm trying to envision how it turned out, but my imagined version lacks the passion and heart that I would imagine of someone genuinely interested in OMM.

I really want to know how someone liking OMM would think/say. Can anyone who has talked about how they like

>>"But why do you like osteopathic manipulations"

"It looks interesting. Like a chiropractor"

>>"But what is so interesting about about OMM?"

"Well using my hands looks interesting"

>>"Yes but you use your hands in other jobs"

"Yes but OMM looks like a really - really interesting way to use hands and help people.

>>"Then why not just be a chiropractor?"

"Because I really want to be a doctor"

What are more developed answers than these? Anyone have passion for OMM who can chime in who they would describe their passion in the interview?
You just need to research it. Like look up what chapman points are.
 
Answer without having to vomit up what you read on Wiki, please.

1. What did you say when you interviewed to be a D.O.?

2.

I googled some reasons why people want to be D.O.'s

When you interview applicants and they tell you the below answers, do you think they are lying and that they should have said something else in the interview?

10 reasons to be proud to be a DO
  • DOs conduct cutting-edge research. ...
  • DOs support one another. ...
  • DOs are trained to treat the whole patient—mind, body and spirit. ...
  • A.T. ...
  • Across the country, DOs serve in high-profile leadership roles in health care and government. ...
  • DOs know the musculoskeletal system inside out.
  • Find OMM interesting

3. My impression is to focus on the positives of the specific D.O. school and maybe try to not emphasize that it is a D.O. school. But perhaps that is too off tangent from the question.
 
I'm censoring this immediately.

For people who liked OMM and said this, I am wondering how it turned out.

I'm trying to envision how it turned out, but my imagined version lacks the passion and heart that I would imagine of someone genuinely interested in OMM.

I really want to know how someone liking OMM would think/say. Can anyone who has talked about how they like

>>"But why do you like osteopathic manipulations"

"It looks interesting. Like a chiropractor"

>>"But what is so interesting about about OMM?"

"Well using my hands looks interesting"

>>"Yes but you use your hands in other jobs"

"Yes but OMM looks like a really - really interesting way to use hands and help people.

>>"Then why not just be a chiropractor?"

"Because I really want to be a doctor"

What are more developed answers than these? Anyone have passion for OMM who can chime in who they would describe their passion in the interview?
I’ve had it done on me...the MSK stuff helps. A lot of other stuff is nonsense
 
You just need to research it. Like look up what chapman points are.

Thanks. Now I've googled Chapman points on wikipedia but I cannot tell from descriptions of it if D.O.'s themselves believe they are pseudoscience or if they believe they are real. It seems they end up on COMPLEX though.

"Some osteopaths search for "Chapman release points" as part of a diagnostic procedure; these are small lumps of tissue that can appear in certain positions, and are thought to signal involvement of viscera in complaints."

1. Do you believe in Chapman points, puahate?

2. The wording of the quote is a bit disconcerting. Do D.O. doctors interviewing students actually laugh at students who believe in OMM? Is that how things are?
 
Thanks. Now I've googled Chapman points on wikipedia but I cannot tell from descriptions of it if D.O.'s themselves believe they are pseudoscience or if they believe they are real. It seems they end up on COMPLEX though.

"Some osteopaths search for "Chapman release points" as part of a diagnostic procedure; these are small lumps of tissue that can appear in certain positions, and are thought to signal involvement of viscera in complaints."

1. Do you believe in Chapman points, puahate?

2. The wording of the quote is a bit disconcerting. Do D.O. doctors interviewing students actually laugh at students who believe in OMM? Is that how things are?
I dont believe in OMM. All you need to do is have a basic answer. I am sorry but you just need to BS this stuff. When I do job interviews and they ask questions that catch me off guard I just BS it. You should research this stuff but know you will need to BS a lot of this.

Alternatively you probably wont be asked about this.
 
I brought up that I liked having another tool to treat chronic and musculoskeletal pain in the face of the opioid "epidemic." I don't think either specialty that I'm trying for will have a place for OMM, but I think that's a rational reason to want to learn it... or to say that.

0. I am trying to get a sense of how D.O. doctors themselves see OMM. My sense now is that most think it is pseudoscience which makes me wonder if they laugh at students who say they want to learn OMM during interviews.

1. Do they overall believe that it is pseudoscience? But they did not think that you were lying when you said this?

2. "I will have another tool if there happens to be an opioid epicdemic where I am"
How did they respond to your answer?
 
Answer without having to vomit up what you read on Wiki, please.

At any point, did should a student mention that he is unable to get into MD schools? Is it common / advised just not to say this ever? Do they ask?

Should you avoid mentioning that you didn't know what D.O. was until you realized there was a good chance of being rejected by MD schools? I admit this is my case.
 
Naturopath doesn’t belong in the same convo.
ahhhh, but the conversation is already being had. As soon as the witch doctors are more fully "regulated" and have fancy societies and standards of practice they will absolutely join the strange bag of cats we call "providers".
 
ahhhh, but the conversation is already being had. As soon as the witch doctors are more fully "regulated" and have fancy societies and standards of practice they will absolutely join the strange bag of cats we call "providers".

In all honesty, weren't you asked in the interview something like this:

"Why not a nurse or naturopath or something? Why D.O."

I guess the key again is not to criticize nurses or naturopaths. But I wonder how people talk about it without sounding like captain obvious to the interviewer.

Student: "Well D.O. residencies and opportunities are really not the same as nursing residencies. Like you could actually do surgery and alot of things people associate with actually be a doctor. And lead the team you work with, as the doctor. Nurses or naturopaths can't do this. "

Interviewer "Yes I know but I had to ask the question, it's on my list"

They know the answer but they ask anyway- it makes me wonder what actually they are trying to test when asking.
 
When asked “Why D.O.?” I explained that my pursuit to become a primary care physician would be easier, because most D.O. schools focus on producing PCP’s. Also, OMM would be a tool to help patients, and possibly avoid the opioid crisis. Is any of this true? Not a clue in the world, but they didn’t ask any follow up questions.

This way I avoided criticizing MD’s, because one of my interviewers was an MD. And I covered most follow-up questions they could have hit me with. Anyways, this is just my $0.02
 
Also, OMM would be a tool to help patients, and possibly avoid the opioid crisis.

Opioid crisis renews interest in osteopathic manipulation therapy to treat pain

I just googled this to understand the connection. I've seen this on the forum before but I have a hard time envisioning someone saying "OMM might help reduce heroin usage for back pain so that's another reason why I want to be a D.O." during the interview.

I guess you probably didn't phrase it like that

Basically I am just trying to understand what interviewers, including both D.O. and MD doctors laugh at (and how they look at D.O. and OMM in general) but I guess if they didn't ask followup questions maybe there is a way to phrase it so they don't laugh.
 
Opioid crisis renews interest in osteopathic manipulation therapy to treat pain

I just googled this to understand the connection. I've seen this on the forum before but I have a hard time envisioning someone saying "OMM might help reduce heroin usage for back pain so that's another reason why I want to be a D.O." during the interview.

I guess you probably didn't phrase it like that

Basically I am just trying to understand what interviewers, including both D.O. and MD doctors laugh at (and how they look at D.O. and OMM in general) but I guess if they didn't ask followup questions maybe there is a way to phrase it so they don't laugh.
Do some research and report back with what you find. This has all been discussed everywhere
 
1. What did you say when you interviewed to be a D.O.?
2.

I googled some reasons why people want to be D.O.'s

When you interview applicants and they tell you the below answers, do you think they are lying and that they should have said something else in the interview?

10 reasons to be proud to be a DO
  • DOs conduct cutting-edge research. ...
  • DOs support one another. ...
  • DOs are trained to treat the whole patient—mind, body and spirit. ...
  • A.T. ...
  • Across the country, DOs serve in high-profile leadership roles in health care and government. ...
  • DOs know the musculoskeletal system inside out.
  • Find OMM interesting

3. My impression is to focus on the positives of the specific D.O. school and maybe try to not emphasize that it is a D.O. school. But perhaps that is too off tangent from the question.

1) I'm a PhD, not a DO.
2) The business about the whole patient is the DO kool-aid. It's also insulting to our MD colleagues because it says that they don't treat the whole patient. It was probably true 100 years ago.
3) Now you're getting it.

Thanks. Now I've googled Chapman points on wikipedia but I cannot tell from descriptions of it if D.O.'s themselves believe they are pseudoscience or if they believe they are real. It seems they end up on COMPLEX though.
"Some osteopaths search for "Chapman release points" as part of a diagnostic procedure; these are small lumps of tissue that can appear in certain positions, and are thought to signal involvement of viscera in complaints."
1. Do you believe in Chapman points, puahate?
2. The wording of the quote is a bit disconcerting. Do D.O. doctors interviewing students actually laugh at students who believe in OMM? Is that how things are?


Apologies for the below question which I can't tell is obvious or not
Based on the below, you have to pass the COMPLEX to graduate, correct? And work as a doctor?
And depending on schools, you have to pass it by a certain time or get kicked out?
Boards as an Osteopathic Student - COMLEX vs USMLE - Prospective Doctor
Not puahate, but Chapman's points have never been proven to exist. This is one of the more unfortunate aspects about Osteopathy. The True Believers will really play these up
It's COMLEX, not COMPLEX.
Most schools require you to pass COMLEX within a set time period, and you only get 2-3 chances to pass as well.


0. I am trying to get a sense of how D.O. doctors themselves see OMM. My sense now is that most think it is pseudoscience which makes me wonder if they laugh at students who say they want to learn OMM during interviews.
1. Do they overall believe that it is pseudoscience? But they did not think that you were lying when you said this?
2. "I will have another tool if there happens to be an opioid epidemic where I am"
How did they respond to your answer?

I wouldn't call it a pseudoscience just yet, but there are a lot of unproven claims. And cranial osteopathy, even if it works, does NOT involve bone movement. Chapman's points we've discussed above.
Saying it's another tool is a very common answer to the "why DO question"
If wish to do yourself a favor, go shadow some DOs and MDs, and compare and contrasts them.

1)At any point, did should a student mention that he is unable to get into MD schools? Is it common / advised just not to say this ever? Do they ask?
2) Should you avoid mentioning that you didn't know what D.O. was until you realized there was a good chance of being rejected by MD schools? I admit this is my case.
No and no, because it tells us that you're an MD wannabe. Look, the deep, dark secret is that we know some 90%+ of our students would have preferred have gotten into an MD school, and we don't take it personally. But we at least politely go through the motions (especially our DO colleagues) that people want to come to us as a first choice. we do NOT want to hear that we're a backup. Keep that to yourself.



Opioid crisis renews interest in osteopathic manipulation therapy to treat pain
I just googled this to understand the connection. I've seen this on the forum before but I have a hard time envisioning someone saying "OMM might help reduce heroin usage for back pain so that's another reason why I want to be a D.O." during the interview.
I guess you probably didn't phrase it like that

Basically I am just trying to understand what interviewers, including both D.O. and MD doctors laugh at (and how they look at D.O. and OMM in general) but I guess if they didn't ask followup questions maybe there is a way to phrase it so they don't laugh.
We don't laugh at candidates, but we do reject people who don't know what they're getting into. You should be coming into this eyes open. And as pointed out to you previously, some 90%+ of DOs do NOT use OMM. If anything, it's a tax on you for not getting into an MD school. But it will make you more comfortable in touching and palpating patients, and learning anatomy..
 
I believe the reason you put "naturopath" in this is that you've wrongly assumed that Osteopathic physicians have similarity to them. They are not physicians, and we do not subscribe to their quackery. As for why a DO, you'll have to do your homework on your own
 
Haha quacky they may be but naturopaths and osteopaths both still answer this same question
“I thought you wanted to be a doctor?”
 
this wouldn't really come up. DO schools have no way to know if you've applied AMCAS now or in the past.

generally, a good reason is the desire to be a physician.
 
You're typically able to gauge your interviewer's stance on OMM beforehand-- at some schools, I knew I was interviewing with an ancient, die-hard OMM DO, so I knew to play up my interest in it a bit more.

For pretty much anyone else, including the many PhDs who interviewed me, "I want to be a physician, and the path to get there doesn't matter to me. I shadowed a DO and thought he was an excellent physician, and that's what I wish to become". End of story. None of this "oh we treat the whole patient!!!" nonsense, it's honestly just insulting to MDs and makes us look like we have an inferiority complex that we're constantly trying to justify ourselves by saying we somehow treat more of the patient than MDs do.
 
1. You applied to medical school more than once. The first time, you only applied to MD schools and you didn't get into any. Second time you applied, now you apply to some D.O. schools.

What is a good way to talk about this in the interview? Would it ever come up?

"You want to be a D.O. But then why didn't you apply to our school or any D.O. last year?

I assume for many of you it is because you have heard there are some situations where D.O. doctors are at a disadvantage. In fact, you might have heard this on SDN.

However, my instinct is that this is an awful answer.

What are better answers that have been given?
*sigh*
It doesn't come up in interviews.

As I told you previously, we know people do this. We don't take it personally.
 
Beating a dead horse.

I had stats to be MD, didn't even know/think about DO until pretty late in the game.

If it hadn't been too late in the cycle to plan to apply to MD/DO, or I wasn't a shoe in for MD, and there wasn't the potential issues with specialization, I would have gone to DO for OMM. Full stop.

And I'm not talking about the weird points or skull things. There's been lots of musculoskeletal things that chiropractors and my DO colleagues have done to me like HVAC (is that the acronym?) or strain/counterstrain stuff, both as a patient and in the workroom, that I thought were amazing. I think if it weren't for certain aspects of practice structure (time, reimbursement, etc) that I think are problematic and make for bad medicine independent of OMM or the rest of it, that there is actually a benefit to a physician having access to some of those skills, that is not made up for by just having chiros or PT.

I think it is a tool and one that I see no reason for a physician not to have, and I always sorta resented that because I was MD and not DO, I would never be able to put my hands on people in that way without big hoops.

The aspects of it that I've enjoyed from my DO colleagues, I hate with a passion that by virtue of my training I can't do so simple a thing for my own patients. I guess you could say maybe I should envy any seemingly simple skill I have to refer out for.

I dunno. I don't see the issue as being that DO should have OMM removed. I don't know enough about DO or OMM to say what if any quackery needs to be removed. I see the issue as being that I wish the MD had some practical manipulative skills added. Basically strip the quackery, add in some manipulation, and merge the two schools.

I don't know what DO adcoms think of my answer, or other DOs or MDs. But if you wanted one MD's perspective on the MD.
 
ahhhh, but the conversation is already being had. As soon as the witch doctors are more fully "regulated" and have fancy societies and standards of practice they will absolutely join the strange bag of cats we call "providers".

In more than one state, naturopathic "doctors" have "physician" status and can prescribe medications, perform surgery, etc.
 
Also: No, I don't think the two schools should be merged at all. Even if it seems that in every way that counts, that the medical science is essentially the same, there are other benefits to having 2 schools.

It has to do with politics and monopoly. More than one school of thought, even if only different in philosophy or structure or hell, not even that, just different governing bodies, I think is a good thing for the medical profession and I think history has borne that out.
 
When I was researching the topic, the above two posts of mine basically summarized my actual feelings on the topic, and that probably would have been what I would have said. And this far down the alternate road, I still feel the same.

Go DOs
 
In more than one state, naturopathic "doctors" have "physician" status and can prescribe medications, perform surgery, etc.
😉 You got it. They're going to look more and more similar osteopaths.
Soon people are going to be asking "whats the difference between a natropath and an osteopath?"
Answer: they just practice different kinds of magic. :=|:-):
 
In more than one state, naturopathic "doctors" have "physician" status and can prescribe medications, perform surgery, etc.
It was explained to me that the real issue with all of those laws and states and etc, has to do with LIABILITY.

It is now legal for the witch doctors to do all these things, but they are not as legally liable as "real" doctors. I suspect if their standard of practice were ever to be held to the same level of scrutiny, liability, and consequence, that their standard of practice would similarly adjust to more closely approximate our own.

As it is, they are basically just poised to "do our jobs," and where they do it as we do and get the same results, it's all the same and everyone wins. Or, they go through basically pointless motions, ordering the same tests, surgeries, yet nothing of consequence happens except the exchange of money, which I don't know how much that harms anyone except where the patient is concerned (and they seem eager to pay for the privilege). The problem is when they "do what we do" and there is harm.

What I'm seeing happen as a result of market forces and also some, at least the "smart" naturopathic doctors, is that they are trying to mess with less of the latter, and focus on either doing what we do not quite as well as we do it, or just pointless but not outright harmful things. It's a huge relief when they either do what I would do, don't do what I wouldn't or think is harmful, and refer the patient to the MD.

I've learned to content myself with patients wasting their money on herbs and tests when I think that Western medicine has been applied or referred to, to the extent that I don't think there's a lot of avoidable harm happening.

It's been a topic coming up a lot where I am lately.
 
😉 You got it. They're going to look more and more similar osteopaths.
Soon people are going to be asking "whats the difference between a natropath and an osteopath?"
Answer: they just practice different kinds of magic. :=|:-):
No. The standards of practice, basis in medical science, and legal liability are worlds apart.

DOs are one of "us," and every real physician is practicing at least a little of the art & craft, placebo, wizardry in their practice, but more of the real stuff and less of the latter in every case.

Where I am, the access to Rxs & procedures is making the witch doctor naturopath practice slightly less fake and thankfully maybe even moving into quasi helpful wellness niches, but it's an insult to MDs and DOs and their collective training to lump them in with DOs.
 
😉 You got it. They're going to look more and more similar osteopaths.
Soon people are going to be asking "whats the difference between a natropath and an osteopath?"
Answer: they just practice different kinds of magic. :=|:-):

I'd rather be a bone wizard than an herb wizard.
 
The problem is when they "do what we do" and there is harm.
Everyone in medicine is doing harm... the bone wizards, the "real doctors" and the witch doctors. The real issue with natropathy is that there's no record and no consistency between providers.
focus on either doing what we do not quite as well as we do it, or just pointless but not outright harmful things
True story here. This is how they all start. Just give it time.
 
So what needs to happen is that if they are "doing our jobs" ie can order and be paid for rxs, tests, procedures, then they also need to be ABLE to be sued and lose their licenses as we do, and then for that to actually happen.

Believe me, where I trained, the Crunch is strong with the Granola. I think it says a lot that the best defence summary our school gave us for the quackery, the only one that has ever made a hippie pause in my experience:

Ours is the only professional license that makes the house you LIVE in something that a civil suit can take away from you. We can go to jail, not for the sort of layperson negligence that anyone including the naturopath and village idiot can, but for malpractice. It is a crime for us to give harmful advice. The minute you even get a medical degree let alone a license, your very person is on the line for what you do to other people in a way that basically doesn't exist for any other profession.

That is the extent to which *we* as a profession are held to for what we do. Does that make us more conservative? Are we less likely to offer unproven treatments, one with not well understood effects or harms? Yes.

Unless if your homeopath is more than just willing to go to jail if the herbs kill you, but society can actually put him there for it, then I would that for as much as he might care, he is not standing by his advice to the extent that I, and my profession is. He is not held to the same standard.

Why is that the case? I'm not saying that this means all the advice is bad or that doctors don't make mistakes. But there is a reason that we can be held this strongly to what we do. It is that good.

I don't care if this is strictly true or not, it's more true for us than it is for them by spades. Anything inaccurate about this statement is like the Word of God compared to their so-called claims.
 
The problem isn't midlevels or quacks having our "powers." It's the lack of responsibility. Believe me, if they were all policed just as MD/DOs then their body of practice would start to look a lot more like ours.

The legal aspects like malpractice is what merged the MD/DO schools to a great extent. Everyone will sell their own brand of snake oil, but once they can and ARE sued for it, then the flavour will change or converge.
 
I never got asked the why DO question at my school. I got asked, what would you do if you failed a test, what do you do to relax, why do you want to be a physician
 
1. What did you say when you interviewed to be a D.O.?


10 reasons to be proud to be a DO
  • DOs conduct cutting-edge research. ...

Lol what? Research at DO schools is *not* cutting edge. A lot of it is OMM focused and that stuff gets published in AOA journals only so...
 
The fact that they are the only ones studying it, doesn't mean it doesn't have merit to be studied. It might be just that much more important that the research be maintained. I'm not saying this applies to things with no conceivable MOA (mechanism of action) like crystals for cancer or homeopathic water for autism, but there should be studies on OMM, herbs, acupuncture, and other stuff.

I don't know what makes something "cutting edge," I'm merely positing that it has value, and wanting to study something lesser-studied but may have value is a perfectly reasonable interest.

We need actual scientists and physicians to be studying anything that is being studied. We can't leave it all to the non-MD/DO quacks.
 
ya I definitely wouldn't mention that you chose DO because you couldnt get into MD. if you look into the differences between DO vs MD (comprehensive overview on this page) then you may find something compelling or that you like particularly about DO, but definitely find a way to speak about it positively as opposed to speaking about MD negatively. Also do a lot of research on the programs and schools themselves that you're applying to and you can speak more specifically on those and why you like THEIR school
 
Really great tips here and insightful discussion for future DO's!
 
Top