Questions from a student seriously considering podiatry.

[Gigantron]

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So after browsing the pre-podiatry and podiatry student forums, I still have some questions that I hope can be clarified. Thank you all so much in advance.

1) Do all schools require a letter from a podiatric physician and another healthcare professional (i.e. MD, DO, etc.)? Temple University, my top choice pod school, states that they require a committee letter (my university provides this) OR two science letters and one podiatric physician letter. Even if you do have a committee letter, should a podiatric physician's letter also be included?

2) I've always wanted to do orthopedics. That being said, I never wanted to be in the OR 24/7, but at the same time a practice that is solely in the office does not appeal to me either. Given that you'd have to be the top of the top to match into orthopedics from a regular MD/DO school compared to going right into it from podiatry, is pod ultimately the better choice? Also, as someone who wants roughly 55% OR and 45% clinic time, is podiatry the right specialty? I'm interested in doing mainly reconstructive stuff?

3) Does the application calculate your cumulative and science GPA in a similar fashion to AMCAS? Also, is the application process similar to AMCAS except that it opens in August as opposed to May or June for AMCAS?

4) I *really* want to go to Temple for podiatric school, but have other options in case that doesn't work out. Can I get in with a 3.55sGPA/3.37cGPA and a 21 MCAT (8PS, 7BS, and 6VR)?

5) Job outlook. This may seem like an archetypical pre-pod question, but is something I am also concerned about. As someone who wants to do primarily reconstructive work, but also wants to maintain a healthy balance of OR and clinic work (with the balance shifting just slightly in favor of OR time), will the amount of time I spend in the OR be dependent on the geographic region I decide to practice in and what kind of practice I decide to have?

Thanks again.

 

[Podophile]

Also, as someone who wants roughly 55% OR and 45% clinic time, is podiatry the right specialty? I'm interested in doing mainly reconstructive stuff?






No. Very, very, very few Podiatrists spend that much time in the OR. If you that much operating and that little clinic, then you need to pursue something else.

 

[hughesn2]

First off, I am currently applying and have yet to have an interview. Thus, my opinions are MY opinions and may not be entirely accurate.

1) I believe it would be in your best interest to get a podiatrists LOR b/c there are many schools in which don't have "committee recommendations" and even just that doesn't really show the school you are applying to that you have done much research on this profession. I know for a fact that my school, Michigan State, does not offer committee letters for any medical school, so you must get professors recommendations. Again, I was under the impression that the COMMITTEE recommendation only took care of the professor's recommendation and not the podiatrists recommendation.

2) This is really up to you in my opinion and how well you do in pod school to get a good residency to prepare you. The doctor I shadowed is one of the few podiatrists in SE Michigan that is accredited to have a surgical operating room inside him office. For him, he goes to the hospital to do surgeries as well on Wednesday and Friday, which is just 3 miles away from his office. He spends about 10-15 hours a week at the hospital doing foot and ankle surgeries and the other three week days in his office where he has about 5-10 other operations per week at his office in his own personal OR. He has two other DPMs that work in his office. Again, he is also considered one of the best podiatrists in all of SE Michigan (which makes up about 40% of Michigan's population).

3) Here is a link for the 2012 class on what was Science vs. Non-Science courses: https://portal.aacpmas.org/applicants2012/faq/faq_coursesubjects.html
There could possibly be changes. I plugged mine in and I knew exactly what was Non-Science and what was a Science course b/c when I look at my transcripts the only classes I have are Biology, Chem, Physics courses or a Philosophy and two Psych courses (which are NON-science courses). FYI, MATH courses are indeed calculated into your Science GPA...I thank the Lord there!

4) You SHOULD and most likely will get into Temple and at least most of the other POD schools. The MCAT isn't amazing, but in 2012 the Temple average was: 3.3cGPA and 3.16sGPA and 23 MCAT. I think your extra 0.2GPA in both areas should overtake the two points on the MCAT. And in 2011 they also had 104 students in their entering class.

5) NO COMMENT

Hope I didn't bore, but this is my opinion of 4 of the 5. Best of LUCK!!!!!

 

[Gigantron]

Also, as someone who wants roughly 55% OR and 45% clinic time, is podiatry the right specialty? I'm interested in doing mainly reconstructive stuff?






No. Very, very, very few Podiatrists spend that much time in the OR. If you that much operating and that little clinic, then you need to pursue something else.

How does it make sense to have residencies be surgically based if you're not spending much time in the OR to begin with? And what's a more realistic ratio of OR to clinic time for a podiatrist out of residency with aspirations of performing a decent amount of surgery?

 

[OhEmGee]

How does it make sense to have residencies be surgically based if you're not spending much time in the OR to begin with? And what's a more realistic ratio of OR to clinic time for a podiatrist out of residency with aspirations of performing a decent amount of surgery?

I would say the average pod spends one day a week in the OR/surgery center. If you wanna be in the OR all the time go to medical school and become a general surgeon.

While our residencies are considered "surgical residencies" you do not spend all of your time in the OR. Some programs more than others but a lot of your week is going to include routine palliative care like rounding inpatients, outpatient clinics and even some in office private practice work for attendings.

 

[arez10]

How does it make sense to have residencies be surgically based if you're not spending much time in the OR to begin with? And what's a more realistic ratio of OR to clinic time for a podiatrist out of residency with aspirations of performing a decent amount of surgery?

Because residency and private practice are two different entities. In residency, a "high-powered" program (because not every podiatry residency is of the same intensity) will have you in the OR pretty much every day, but that is because you work with many different attendings. There are also residency programs that may not have as much volume and have each resident scrub only a couple of surgeries a week. But in private practice, it would be difficult to do surgery half the time. Not every patient is a surgical candidate. Orthopods don't do much except surgery, besides injections which take 2 minutes. So when they see patients in clinic it's mainly for signing them up for surgery. But podiatrists may have a variety of patients walk through their door.

Now, if you graduate residency and join an ortho group and only do F&A surgeries, maybe it's different. I really have no idea. But I wouldn't go into podiatry thinking you're going to be in the OR at least half the time.

 

[Gigantron]

I would say the average pod spends one day a week in the OR/surgery center. If you wanna be in the OR all the time go to medical school and become a general surgeon.

While our residencies are considered "surgical residencies" you do not spend all of your time in the OR. Some programs more than others but a lot of your week is going to include routine palliative care like rounding inpatients, outpatient clinics and even some in office private practice work for attendings.

Wow...even if you work for a busy group practice? 🙁

 

[jonod1107]

Wow...even if you work for a busy group practice? 🙁

Actually, that is changing and it can be doable.

Here are two ways you can do a lot more OR time than just one day out of the week.

1. More and more pods are being hired by Ortho groups and hospitals to be on their surgical department. Obviously, with an Ortho group, I doubt you will be doing much non-surgical care though. Same goes for the Hospitals. Those jobs are harder to get since they pay more up front. I personally know a Pod who worked for an Ortho group after residency for about 3-4 years to pay off his debt, and have some seed money to start his own practice.

2. Work for a large group. I know a group down south that is so large, that the senior Pods can choose to specialize in a niche area if they wanted to. So the Pods that want to do surgery, can do more surgery. There is even a pod who does mainly derm. and skin related treatments on the foot.

However, usually you will not be doing major reconstructive surgeries being in a private Pod group. The traumas are usually taken to the hospitals. On the other hand, depending on your relationship with the local doctors and surgeons, I have seen diabetic foot being refered to Pods and some of those limb salvage surgeries are pretty major reconstructive procedures.

I don't think you should let that be the defining reason for deciding to pursue Pod or not. Like you said, going the Ortho MD route is statistically hard. I know several close friends in MD school who scored 30+ on the MCAT and they could not get into the top 5-10% of the class, couldn't get the score 230+ on Step 1, all of which you need to even have a SHOT at an ortho residency. Everyone thinks they are smart but in Med school, everyone is smart.


Edit: Just want to add that not all general surgeons are always in the OR all the time. If a GS owns their own office, they actually do a lot of smaller out patient procedures in their office. The GS I know does 3 morning of surgery in the OR and the rest is office time.

 

[Gigantron]

Actually, that is changing and it can be doable.

Here are two ways you can do a lot more OR time than just one day out of the week.

1. More and more pods are being hired by Ortho groups and hospitals to be on their surgical department. Obviously, with an Ortho group, I doubt you will be doing much non-surgical care though. Same goes for the Hospitals. Those jobs are harder to get since they pay more up front. I personally know a Pod who worked for an Ortho group after residency for about 3-4 years to pay off his debt, and have some seed money to start his own practice.

2. Work for a large group. I know a group down south that is so large, that the senior Pods can choose to specialize in a niche area if they wanted to. So the Pods that want to do surgery, can do more surgery. There is even a pod who does mainly derm. and skin related treatments on the foot.

However, usually you will not be doing major reconstructive surgeries being in a private Pod group. The traumas are usually taken to the hospitals. On the other hand, depending on your relationship with the local doctors and surgeons, I have seen diabetic foot being refered to Pods and some of those limb salvage surgeries are pretty major reconstructive procedures.

I don't think you should let that be the defining reason for deciding to pursue Pod or not. Like you said, going the Ortho MD route is statistically hard. I know several close friends in MD school who scored 30+ on the MCAT and they could not get into the top 5-10% of the class, couldn't get the score 230+ on Step 1, all of which you need to even have a SHOT at an ortho residency. Everyone thinks they are smart but in Med school, everyone is smart.


Edit: Just want to add that not all general surgeons are always in the OR all the time. If a GS owns their own office, they actually do a lot of smaller out patient procedures in their office. The GS I know does 3 morning of surgery in the OR and the rest is office time.

This makes me feel better. I mean I'm honestly fine if I even get to operate one day a week and be in clinic for the rest of that time...so long as I can pay off loans if I need to take them out to be honest.

 

[msion]

Surgery is just one aspect of podiatry and there is so much more to this field, hence why I chose it in the first place.
It seems like quite a few pre-pods want to do surgeries all day along and all the time and to be considered as a surgeon. While surgeries are important and I believe they are probably the best and easiest ways to impress physicians of other specialties, we cannot ignore the "bread and butter" of this profession. Wound care is equally awesome, infectious diseases of the lower extremity are worth the time to investigate, and there are so many other office procedures that podiatrists are capable of doing. Enough said, just remember you are receiving a medical education in the hopes of doing some good to humanity. There are so many ways to utilize your education and training.

 

[JR2011]

So after browsing the pre-podiatry and podiatry student forums, I still have some questions that I hope can be clarified. Thank you all so much in advance.

1) Do all schools require a letter from a podiatric physician and another healthcare professional (i.e. MD, DO, etc.)? Temple University, my top choice pod school, states that they require a committee letter (my university provides this) OR two science letters and one podiatric physician letter. Even if you do have a committee letter, should a podiatric physician's letter also be included?

2) I've always wanted to do orthopedics. That being said, I never wanted to be in the OR 24/7, but at the same time a practice that is solely in the office does not appeal to me either. Given that you'd have to be the top of the top to match into orthopedics from a regular MD/DO school compared to going right into it from podiatry, is pod ultimately the better choice? Also, as someone who wants roughly 55% OR and 45% clinic time, is podiatry the right specialty? I'm interested in doing mainly reconstructive stuff?


5) Job outlook. This may seem like an archetypical pre-pod question, but is something I am also concerned about. As someone who wants to do primarily reconstructive work, but also wants to maintain a healthy balance of OR and clinic work (with the balance shifting just slightly in favor of OR time), will the amount of time I spend in the OR be dependent on the geographic region I decide to practice in and what kind of practice I decide to have?

Thanks again.

How does it make sense to have residencies be surgically based if you're not spending much time in the OR to begin with? And what's a more realistic ratio of OR to clinic time for a podiatrist out of residency with aspirations of performing a decent amount of surgery?

You have got a long road ahead of you but its definitely possible. The profession is a surgical subspecialty and that's one of the great things. We can diagnose and correct deformity/ pathology. 60% OR and 40% clinic is possible depending on how efficient you are in clinic and of course how many patients you see per day. OR frequency and OR time are two totally different things. Those with inadequate surgical training often times will spend WAY too much time in the OR due to incompetence. I believe your are referring to OR frequency. if enough pathology walks through your door that you can fix then absolutely. It depends on your surgical competency which varies DRASITCALLY in our profession. Some will be comfortable with basic surgery, some with advanced and some won't have the training and or skills to be comfortable what so ever. This will definitely be reflected with what types of surgeries you schedule and of course board certification.

If you want to be a reconstructive surgeon, work on performing towards the top of your class during pod school and rotating at the top surgical residencies. After you get good grades, landing a top surgical residency is very very competitive. Getting a residency period, let alone a top surgical one is tough. Beyond this you may consider a surgical fellowship for even more training. Finally, you need to look for a job that will keep you busy.

I believe one of the reasons some have reduced OR frequency is because they are limited in their training. Those that did not get adequate surgical exposure during residency will not only be failing to fix it surgically, but often times won't even diagnose it and have the incorrect conservative treatments. And the worst thing I see is those that choose the incorrect procedure because they are limited by their training and comfort level. Maximizing your case load and exposure by choosing a good residency will ensure your competency and help increase the types of pathologies you can correct.

 

[Gigantron]

Hmm, that's interesting. I suppose it would be better to be a superstar in podiatric medical school than to struggle in MD/DO school in addition to the uncertainty that you'll even match into an ortho residency.

 

[josebiwasabi]

Hmm, that's interesting. I suppose it would be better to be a superstar in podiatric medical school than to struggle in MD/DO school in addition to the uncertainty that you'll even match into an ortho residency.

You probably know this, but as a word of caution. Don't assume that just because you have MD stats you will be an academic superstar in pod school. You'll likely be in the top 1/2 or possibly top 1/3, but after that there's no guarantee. I wasn't quite sure what I was expecting when I started school (I'm now a 3rd year) but I learned very quickly that there are many extremely intelligent people in my class. Also, if you struggle with MD/DO classes you'll probably struggle in pod classes.

 

[feet2017]

You probably know this, but as a word of caution. Don't assume that just because you have MD stats you will be an academic superstar in pod school. You'll likely be in the top 1/2 or possibly top 1/3, but after that there's no guarantee. I wasn't quite sure what I was expecting when I started school (I'm now a 3rd year) but I learned very quickly that there are many extremely intelligent people in my class. Also, if you struggle with MD/DO classes you'll probably struggle in pod classes.

I struggle more in my pod class than in my gross anatomy class. LOL