Questions to ask Caribbean Medical Schools

[Clarus]

What are some questions that I should be asking Caribbean Medical Schools if I am applying as a US Citizen (who wishes to come back to the US for residency) ?

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[torontopharm]

What % of initially enrolled students matched in the prior year? Make sure to mention the bolded.
How many students are held back/kicked out for not getting the threshold COMP scores? How many are decelling every semester?
Wait times between rotations?
How does the school help if you don't match?
Approximately how much does the tuition increase by every semester?
If the 5th semester is useless (as it is in many Caribbean schools), can you skip whatever program they're running and self-study instead?

 

[673441]

I am a current Ross 4X (finishing 2nd year) semester student. You can ask me whatever you'd like in a PM.

 

[gyngyn]

I am a current Ross 4X (finishing 2nd year) semester student. You can ask me whatever you'd like in a PM.

Seems a bit...covert for an anonymous forum focused on a free exchange of information for the benefit of all.

 

[Goro]

What's the point? They're going to lie to you anyway.

You should be asking yourself:
"Do I really want to be unemployed and deeply in debt?"

What are some questions that I should be asking Caribbean Medical Schools if I am applying as a US Citizen (who wishes to come back to the US for residency) ?

 

[Mikkus]

Asking a Caribbean medical school questions and expecting truthful results is just silly. They have no legal reason to tell you the correct answers, and are masters at giving half truth and biased statistics. If you want true answers ask some current students, there are lots of them hanging around the SDN boards.

 

[B1GM0N3Y86]

Hey bud, as others have stated, most schools will walk the fine line by giving vague answers to any question you ask unless you ask it over and over again. I finished in 2015 and just matched myself in FM (SJSM graduate) and will tell you that its a huge gamble to take. Less than 40% of IMG graduates matriculate into any residency and most caribbean schools will have about half of initial class or less get by Step 1. Just going by that, I would never say anything more than 20% or so of any initial class will get residency. Even Ross (Big 4) is included in that, I have never spoken to a Ross student that didnt testify how they start with 4/5/600 and by second semester there are 2/300 or so. Now the other 3 schools of the big 4 may be different. But anything under big 4 and ross included I wouldn't say more than 20% of initial classes will matriculate into residency as it stands NOW lol. In a few years could be less.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Hey bud, as others have stated, most schools will walk the fine line by giving vague answers to any question you ask unless you ask it over and over again. I finished in 2015 and just matched myself in FM (SJSM graduate) and will tell you that its a huge gamble to take. Less than 40% of IMG graduates matriculate into any residency and most caribbean schools will have about half of initial class or less get by Step 1. Just going by that, I would never say anything more than 20% or so of any initial class will get residency. Even Ross (Big 4) is included in that, I have never spoken to a Ross student that didnt testify how they start with 4/5/600 and by second semester there are 2/300 or so. Now the other 3 schools of the big 4 may be different. But anything under big 4 and ross included I wouldn't say more than 20% of initial classes will matriculate into residency as it stands NOW lol. In a few years could be less.

Can't speak for other schools, but this nowhere near the case for SGU, and I'm about 95% certain this is untrue for Ross as well. I will gladly, candidly, and publicly answer any questions regarding my experience and feelings pertaining to Caribbean medical schools. I can't predict the future and don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of medical education, but I will do my best to be honest with prospective students regarding my experiences and where I feel Caribbean medical education is heading.

If you're a US citizen considering a Caribbean medical school, you need to ask yourself three questions:

1). Have I fully exhausted any and all realistic options that would allow me to matriculate at at USMD/DO school

2). Are there any other careers choices that would satisfy and fulfill me as a person

3). Have I addressed my previous deficiencies that prevent me from matriculating at US medical schools, that would subsequently present a barrier to my success as an IMG

If you're still considering a Caribbean medical school after answering those questions, then your ONLY other question of concern should be

1). What school has the highest probability of placing me in a residency

That's really all that matters. If you're basing your decision off of cost, lifestyle amenities, geographic location, etc. then you're making your decision off of faulty assumptions. Obtaining a residency should be your only goal, and everything you do should be directed towards meeting that goal.

 

[Clarus]

Can't speak for other schools, but this nowhere near the case for SGU, and I'm about 95% certain this is untrue for Ross as well. I will gladly, candidly, and publicly answer any questions regarding my experience and feelings pertaining to Caribbean medical schools. I can't predict the future and don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of medical education, but I will do my best to be honest with prospective students regarding my experiences and where I feel Caribbean medical education is heading.

If you're a US citizen considering a Caribbean medical school, you need to ask yourself three questions:

1). Have I fully exhausted any and all realistic options that would allow me to matriculate at at USMD/DO school

2). Are there any other careers choices that would satisfy and fulfill me as a person

3). Have I addressed my previous deficiencies that prevent me from matriculating at US medical schools, that would subsequently present a barrier to my success as an IMG

If you're still considering a Caribbean medical school after answering those questions, then your ONLY other question of concern should be

1). What school has the highest probability of placing me in a residency

That's really all that matters. If you're basing your decision off of cost, lifestyle amenities, geographic location, etc. then you're making your decision off of faulty assumptions. Obtaining a residency should be your only goal, and everything you do should be directed towards meeting that goal.

Right. That makes sense. Did you go to a Caribbean medical school? What were your reasons if you don't mind me asking?

 

[PossibleDOC?]

Can't speak for other schools, but this nowhere near the case for SGU, and I'm about 95% certain this is untrue for Ross as well. I will gladly, candidly, and publicly answer any questions regarding my experience and feelings pertaining to Caribbean medical schools. I can't predict the future and don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of medical education, but I will do my best to be honest with prospective students regarding my experiences and where I feel Caribbean medical education is heading.

If you're a US citizen considering a Caribbean medical school, you need to ask yourself three questions:

1). Have I fully exhausted any and all realistic options that would allow me to matriculate at at USMD/DO school

2). Are there any other careers choices that would satisfy and fulfill me as a person

3). Have I addressed my previous deficiencies that prevent me from matriculating at US medical schools, that would subsequently present a barrier to my success as an IMG

If you're still considering a Caribbean medical school after answering those questions, then your ONLY other question of concern should be

1). What school has the highest probability of placing me in a residency

That's really all that matters. If you're basing your decision off of cost, lifestyle amenities, geographic location, etc. then you're making your decision off of faulty assumptions. Obtaining a residency should be your only goal, and everything you do should be directed towards meeting that goal.

Wouldn't it also be realistic to go into IMG knowing you have to be happy with WHATEVER you place in because certain things like Ortho, Derm, and in some cases gen surgery are off the table?

 

[gyngyn]

Wouldn't it also be realistic to go into IMG knowing you have to be happy with WHATEVER you place in because certain things like Ortho, Derm, and in some cases gen surgery are off the table?

If, after all alternatives have been completely exhausted, the candidate would be happy trying for an MD degree knowing that they have only a modest chance at a residency of any type (or even taking the exam that permits them to apply for one), this is the final solution.

 

[B1GM0N3Y86]

Isn't SGU a big 4 school lol. That's why I said unless a big 4 I wouldn't do it.
And yeah, talk to ross students, they'll tell u how quickly a third of class will drop out after 1 semester. I'm starting with 2 Ross students at my residency, and both attest to it. Start with 500 or so, and going into 2nd semster there is somewhere near mid 300. And then if u somehow screw up ur exit exam 3x ur booted. Out of the 2 residents that went to ROSS, that happened to one of them, transferred to AUA and finished med school there, never failed any steps, just had a hard time with Ross's exit exam. If u don't believe me, talk to Ross students, or look over the years worth of forums about it. Lol

Like I've said previously, a little less than 40%(think it was 38) of all IMGs that applied this year got a residency position.
Most bottom carib schools like sjsm, xavier, atlantic, avalon, united health, etc... besides SGU AUC SABA, your only going to see half of an initial class get over step 1. And then a few here and there will bomb cs or ck. Just with that in mind, less than 40% of those that do get their diploma will get residency. It's easy to paint it, going this route is a **** storm, u gotta be crazy and dedicated. Can it be done, yes, I was lucky enough to matriculate and living proof it can be as others are too. Lol, but don't sit here and say that more than 20 to 25 percent of an initial class will get residency. Unless ur at a big 4 minus ross, those are ur odds and if anyone else is willing to blow smoke up ur butt, I at least warned ya.

Can't speak for other schools, but this nowhere near the case for SGU, and I'm about 95% certain this is untrue for Ross as well. I will gladly, candidly, and publicly answer any questions regarding my experience and feelings pertaining to Caribbean medical schools. I can't predict the future and don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of medical education, but I will do my best to be honest with prospective students regarding my experiences and where I feel Caribbean medical education is heading.

If you're a US citizen considering a Caribbean medical school, you need to ask yourself three questions:

1). Have I fully exhausted any and all realistic options that would allow me to matriculate at at USMD/DO school

2). Are there any other careers choices that would satisfy and fulfill me as a person

3). Have I addressed my previous deficiencies that prevent me from matriculating at US medical schools, that would subsequently present a barrier to my success as an IMG

If you're still considering a Caribbean medical school after answering those questions, then your ONLY other question of concern should be

1). What school has the highest probability of placing me in a residency

That's really all that matters. If you're basing your decision off of cost, lifestyle amenities, geographic location, etc. then you're making your decision off of faulty assumptions. Obtaining a residency should be your only goal, and everything you do should be directed towards meeting that goal.

 

[the argus]

Isn't SGU a big 4 school lol. That's why I said unless a big 4 I wouldn't do it.
And yeah, talk to ross students, they'll tell u how quickly a third of class will drop out after 1 semester. I'm starting with 2 Ross students at my residency, and both attest to it. Start with 500 or so, and going into 2nd semster there is somewhere near mid 300. And then if u somehow screw up ur exit exam 3x ur booted. Out of the 2 residents that went to ROSS, that happened to one of them, transferred to AUA and finished med school there, never failed any steps, just had a hard time with Ross's exit exam. If u don't believe me, talk to Ross students, or look over the years worth of forums about it. Lol

Like I've said previously, a little less than 40%(think it was 38) of all IMGs that applied this year got a residency position.
Most bottom carib schools like sjsm, xavier, atlantic, avalon, united health, etc... besides SGU AUC SABA, your only going to see half of an initial class get over step 1. And then a few here and there will bomb cs or ck. Just with that in mind, less than 40% of those that do get their diploma will get residency. It's easy to paint it, going this route is a **** storm, u gotta be crazy and dedicated. Can it be done, yes, I was lucky enough to matriculate and living proof it can be as others are too. Lol, but don't sit here and say that more than 20 to 25 percent of an initial class will get residency. Unless ur at a big 4 minus ross, those are ur odds and if anyone else is willing to blow smoke up ur butt, I at least warned ya.

Well this Ross grad thinks the numbers you are claiming are hogwash. For the year that I started (2011), Ross started a total of ~1200 people, ~25% of which were gone by the start of clinicals. Then the match rate was 88% for my year (2015) and 800+ people matched, which puts it at ~70% of the people that started my year eventually got a residency spot, not the ridiculous 25% you are claiming. My numbers are from looking at the class numbers at the start of each semester according to the schedules, etc that were posted while on the island.

And Ross' "exit exam" you mention is just the NBME basic science comp that just about every medical school in the US has their students take. Ross makes the passing score the equivalent to a passing score on step 1. And yes, if you fail it 3x you get booted, but honestly if you fail the comp 3x you deserve to get booted and the chances of passing step 1 are not great. The fellow intern you mention is the rare person who manages to fail the comp 3x and still passes step 1 on the first try.

And the odds of getting a residency position from the Caribbean have less to do with the school you come from, and much more with the individual applicant. There are, and will continue to be over the next at least 10 years, plenty of PGY-1 positions available for every Caribbean graduate. The issue is more that the Caribbean schools have low admissions standards, and getting accepted at one does not guarantee a residency position like it basically does at US-based schools. Caribbean schools accept people that probably don't have the academic skills required to succeed in medical school, and then have no problem flunking them out. I personally have no problem with this but I realize there are reasonable people who feel differently. They will also let you repeat semesters and step exams, which are major red flags when applying for residency.

The issues of failing out of school or not getting a residency spot are less about the Caribbean schools, and more about the people who go to Caribbean schools and aren't academically capable of handling it. The big 4 schools provide you with everything you need to match into a residency position. The major issue is people need to be honest with themselves before deciding to go to the Caribbean about why they couldn't get into a US school and what they are going to do to fix those things.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Right. That makes sense. Did you go to a Caribbean medical school? What were your reasons if you don't mind me asking?

I did, I just recently graduated from SGU this past June and started my residency in psychiatry. I've elaborated at some length on my reasons for going to the Caribbean in previous posts, you can dig through my history if you're really interested in the details, but by and large I was non-trad and getting bad academic advice from my non-medical advisors, had gotten wait-listed 2 cycles in a row at USMD schools, and was interested in global medical work in a specific geographic region in Africa that was non-friendly toward DO's at the time. I also applied very narrowly/stupidly to USMD programs and was not on top of my secondary applications. I ultimately am very happy with my outcome, but I made a lot of mistakes during my initial applications that could have ended in financial catastrophe for me, and I don't discount the luck component of the whole process.

 

[B1GM0N3Y86]

Then glad to see your Ross Class did so well Argus. But you would be the first Ross student that I have spoken too that said fewer than 1/3rd dropped out by time clinicals started. Every person before you have all said the same, class is almost halved by time rotations start. But hey, either way. at least we got thru it haha. Def is a crazy experience, for crazy dreams, that dont work out for many of hopefuls.

Agree with you bedevilled. Luck def has a bit to do with it, but we def earned this outcome. We get to PRACTICE MEDICINE!!! lol.

 

[Skip Intro]

The issues of failing out of school or not getting a residency spot are less about the Caribbean schools, and more about the people who go to Caribbean schools and aren't academically capable of handling it.

I agree with this with two caveats.

First, it's much more about the pace and volume of the information that will be coming at you than the actual information itself. You will have to be able to focus on what's important and master that information without a lot of hand-holding. And, you will have to be able to pass standardized tests... and score highly. If you can't do these things, you're in trouble from the start.

Secondly, yes, the big established Carib schools will provide you a pathway to residency. But, don't start expecting that you are going to train in Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. Expect, at best, that if you find out that you are a medical rockstar once you get accepted and absolutely crush your years in the Caribbean, you are still most likely to get a modestly competitive residency at a mid-tier academic program. There are some residency training programs that just flat-out don't recognize any Caribbean school as a legitimate medical school.

Have realistic expectations. And be prepared to work harder and study more than you ever have. Academic capability is usually not an issue if you have enough time... which is my point: you don't. If you find yourself constantly feeling like you're playing "catch up", you're already in trouble.

-Skip