Quick favor re: wilderness first aid kit

[beriberi]

There was a thread about a year ago regarding what one would carry in a first aid kit for expedition medicine. I have searched all over and been unable to find it. Can someone point it out or bump it?

Thanks!

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[st0rmin]

There was a thread about a year ago regarding what one would carry in a first aid kit for expedition medicine. I have searched all over and been unable to find it. Can someone point it out or bump it?

Thanks!

I don't know about the thread here on SDN but Auerbach: Wilderness Medicine 4th ed. has a section on medical equipment. It was a little to big to post here but can be found in the book section on MDConsult (http://www.mdconsult.com). Good luck.

 

[11-44]

I prefer Bactin over hydrogen peroxide. A good tip when exposed to sumac- ingest a combination of crushed elderberries and mohagany bark extract and immerse the affected site in water for 1-2 hours. Of course a 2 year fellowship helps as well.

 

[corpsmanUP]

I prefer Bactin over hydrogen peroxide. A good tip when exposed to sumac- ingest a combination of crushed elderberries and mohagany bark extract and immerse the affected site in water for 1-2 hours. Of course a 2 year fellowship helps as well.

No offense, but I think I'll wait until the "study" comes out that verifies this. Until then I'll still carry a vial of Aristocort around....never know what you might need it for My main things that I take into the back country are, water, more water, even more water, packets of gatorade, multiple layers, bug spray, more bug spray, sunglasses, a bag of LR for each person's right front cargo pocket along with a 1.25" 16 guage setup with tubing. I carry an epi pen, lots of sunblock, and a really sharp knife for all kinds of things as you can imagine. I carry on my belt a hemostat, forceps with no teeth, and a 380 Sigma S&W concealed beneath a neoprene abdominal sleave. I have 2 old maleable splints, a 7.5 ET tube, and some Coban...4 rolls. I usually carry a flask of Stoli for when I finish a day of long hiking, and I keep some Advil around as well. Zantac...because someone on the trip with the change in foods is going to start complaining constantly about their GERD....and it helps to go along with the Claritin redi tabs I have in case someone has the strange exposure rash that doesn't seem to read the books. Lots of Eucerin paste in a ziplock bag for antichafing....and some moleskin to patch everyone's feet up...but you need some Mastasol or Benzoin for it to stay on for several days. If I am out for more than a few days I usually bring this one bottle I have that literally has 2 of nearly any class of drugs imaginable that I have accumulated over the years. I keep it in the fridge and foil wrapped and the stuff has never gone bad....thus far. Its nice to have a broad spectrum Augmentin or Levaquin when someone starts with some really bad cellulitis.

Things I don't waste space on that I have seen a lot of people try and lug around.....bottles of alcohol or peroxide...that could be more water weight. I never carry a stethescope or BP cuff, because you can assess how stable someone is with peripheral pulses and you can listen with your ears if you need....without a steth against their chest. I have had a kit I have kept with me since the Gulf War and I have modified it to suit more modern needs.

 

[punkmd]

No offense, but I think I'll wait until the "study" comes out that verifies this. Until then I'll still carry a vial of Aristocort around....never know what you might need it for My main things that I take into the back country are, water, more water, even more water, packets of gatorade, multiple layers, bug spray, more bug spray, sunglasses, a bag of LR for each person's right front cargo pocket along with a 1.25" 16 guage setup with tubing. I carry an epi pen, lots of sunblock, and a really sharp knife for all kinds of things as you can imagine. I carry on my belt a hemostat, forceps with no teeth, and a 380 Sigma S&W concealed beneath a neoprene abdominal sleave. I have 2 old maleable splints, a 7.5 ET tube, and some Coban...4 rolls. I usually carry a flask of Stoli for when I finish a day of long hiking, and I keep some Advil around as well. Zantac...because someone on the trip with the change in foods is going to start complaining constantly about their GERD....and it helps to go along with the Claritin redi tabs I have in case someone has the strange exposure rash that doesn't seem to read the books. Lots of Eucerin paste in a ziplock bag for antichafing....and some moleskin to patch everyone's feet up...but you need some Mastasol or Benzoin for it to stay on for several days. If I am out for more than a few days I usually bring this one bottle I have that literally has 2 of nearly any class of drugs imaginable that I have accumulated over the years. I keep it in the fridge and foil wrapped and the stuff has never gone bad....thus far. Its nice to have a broad spectrum Augmentin or Levaquin when someone starts with some really bad cellulitis.

Things I don't waste space on that I have seen a lot of people try and lug around.....bottles of alcohol or peroxide...that could be more water weight. I never carry a stethescope or BP cuff, because you can assess how stable someone is with peripheral pulses and you can listen with your ears if you need....without a steth against their chest. I have had a kit I have kept with me since the Gulf War and I have modified it to suit more modern needs.

Let's do lunch if there's a nuclear attack on our country. When I go out into the wilderness I carry a credit card with sweet security notification protection, dress down as much as I can, and use my fists and teeth if any animals attack (Is NYC considered the rugged outback?).

 

[corpsmanUP]

Let's do lunch if there's a nuclear attack on our country. When I go out into the wilderness I carry a credit card with sweet security notification protection, dress down as much as I can, and use my fists and teeth if any animals attack (Is NYC considered the rugged outback?).

I have another pack for the nuc attack....KI equipped, MCU2P Gas Mask with extra filters and seals! Damn canteen adapter is broke though

The .380 is because I freaking hate bears and mountain lions in my camp at night and though I have never even had to take it out, it would be my luck the one time I don't bring it that I need it. Plus most of the places I go I have been before helping to chase drug runners in west Texas. I know who hangs out on those trails and I am not taking any chances! It hardly weighs a pound so its not like its extra weight really.

 

[11-44]

A .380? You might as well spit at a mountain lion unless you're finishing your fifth clip into its head point blank. Is the .380 Sigma even considered a firearm? At least the .22 is considered a respectable Man's round....

 

[corpsmanUP]

A .380? You might as well spit at a mountain lion unless you're finishing your fifth clip into its head point blank. Is the .380 Sigma even considered a firearm? At least the .22 is considered a respectable Man's round....

You evidently have no working knowledge of weapons. A .22 caliber is generally a rimfire round, smallest made these days. A .380 is the same diameter as a 9mm but slightly shorter and slightly less powder in the casing. A 9mm is just shy of a .40 caliber, and a .45 is generally the larger round carried today.

 

[lonestar911]

Off the top of my head; additional things that I have had with me: Decadron, Diamox (for altitude) Phenergan, silverdine, morphine,lomotil, Gatorade, hot or cold seems to save lives. NOLS is a good resource. I have not seen the new Wilderness Medicine, but am sure it will be a good guide.

Corpsman: I like your approach. I am also one to “bring it and not need it” than visa versa.

(FWIW: I think a handgun is a must in bear country (454, 44mag, Perhaps 45 Long Colt), but if you are going to Mexico, South America, or the Himalaya and pack a gun you will spend your vacation in a small, not so nice jail. I have seen gringos (mostly we Texans who cant leave home without our guns) in trouble at the Mexican border.)

Best of luck

 

[Arctic Char]

nonetheless, if you are relying on a .38 for protection against a bear, just make sure to take the scope off beforehand . . . it will hurt less when the bear shoves it up your a**

i know its a useful round to shoo away a black bear (overgrown racoon) . . . i just never miss an opportunity to use that joke (being from alaska, i've run into waaayyy too many overanxious tourists who are excited to carry their .22 rifles or 30-30's out into the bush, as if it the rounds wouldn't ricochet off a bear's skull)

 

[11-44]

Well, in one regard that is correct, I have no working knowledge of bear weapons (except maybe in the case of dynamite).

In this case the 'weapon' mentioned must be a fainthearted attempt at humor. Seriously, it is a cheapo plastic throw-away cop-planting Walmart cap gun. Additionally, when heading advice on how to handle bears and lions; generally speaking, such advice is usually derived from a profound dearth of common sense.

I do appreciate the patronizing break down of calibers, All this time I thought a 9mm was twenty times the size of a .45. Maybe that's why I failed the ASVAB.

 

[Coach]

Off the top of my head; additional things that I have had with me: Decadron, Diamox (for altitude) Phenergan, silverdine, morphine,lomotil, Gatorade, hot or cold seems to save lives. NOLS is a good resource. I have not seen the new Wilderness Medicine, but am sure it will be a good guide.

Corpsman: I like your approach. I am also one to “bring it and not need it” than visa versa.

(FWIW: I think a handgun is a must in bear country (454, 44mag, Perhaps 45 Long Colt), but if you are going to Mexico, South America, or the Himalaya and pack a gun you will spend your vacation in a small, not so nice jail. I have seen gringos (mostly we Texans who cant leave home without our guns) in trouble at the Mexican border.)

Best of luck

I don't know about all of this, maybe since I've spent most of my life in the mountains I am overlooking things or have just been extremely lucky, but I prefer to go ultralight. Give me sunscreen, some bug juice, a H2O filter, a change of socks, my glock 40 and I am good to go.

 

[11-44]

Originally Posted: I don't know about all of this, maybe since I've spent most of my life in the mountains I am overlooking things or have just been extremely lucky, but I prefer to go ultralight. Give me sunscreen, some bug juice, a H2O filter, a change of socks, my glock 40 and I am good to go.


I'll definitely second ultrawuss! I carry a S&W Sigma .177.

 

[corpsmanUP]

In Alaska they give you small bells to tie to your beltloops and cans of bear repellant. They tell you to use the repellant only on the Grizzly bears and to just not make eye contact with the black bears. They also teach you how to know ahead of time which bear territory you are in. The black bear feces will be large, clumpy, and full of squirrel hair. The grizzly bear feces will be full of crushed bells and repllant cans!!

 

[Arctic Char]

hahaha

and, in those oh so frequent cases when people do not seek the advice of "they" . . . the feces is garnished with a bent up .22 rifle.

in reality, doesn't matter what you have. if a grizzly is going to eat you, bon appetite. there was a couple last year just outisde ANWR who followed all the rules, had spray, stored their food, and even got off a round of a winchester 300 mag - both found half eaten in their tents.

 

[Arctic Char]

for the OP -

for me, it depends on the trip. if i'll be out for more than 5 days, and weight isn't a big issue, which is usually an indicator of remoteness, i bring a small suture kit with lidocaine. along with all the other goodies in a standard kit. morphine is also a good thing to have.

 

[lonestar911]

I think the parameters of the trip are an important issue as MTMED notes. Who is going, where they are going and what age the group is. I am basing my recommendation on a group of four to eight going on an expedition for three or more weeks with some of the time at altitude (up to about 23k feet). I guess I like to have a good stock of medical supplies in base camp. I also agree, as noted that when covering ground on foot (with all of your gear on your back or in a sled)- less is better, especially considering the bulk of the food that must be carried.

Coach, I agree if you are alone and or you are with another friend and are out for only five days or so that carrying a minimal kit may work. Having spent your life in the mountains and not encountering an emergency requiring at least advanced first aid for yourself or someone you happen upon, I would say that is lucky. (Perhaps I have just been unlucky) Not to second guess anyone’s approach to wilderness travel as we all do things differently, which is a good thing.

I tend to be over prepared because I have been caught in situations where I needed something that I forgot to pack or just didn’t think I needed. I guess I base my packing list on my personel experience. Granted if I carried that something for the next five years and did not use it again, I cut it form the list. When I am going somewhere very remote and do not have to carry my kit, it tends to be significantly larger.

To qualify my additions Phenergan and Lomotil has proven invaluable getting a climber out under his own power and has decreased the need to carry IV fluids. I have not been on a trip when someone has not burned themselves while cooking in the vestibule of their tent so the silverdine has been good to have and has averted a premature end to our trip on several occasions. Decadron, diamox are for those going to altitude and morphine is a given ( though it can be somewhat of a bother when clearing customs regardless of what credentials you bring )

Lots of good information on this board You might try calling The National Outdoor Leadership School (1800.710.NOLS)and asking if you could have a copy of their list. They are a first rate group; BeriBeri best of luck on your trip.

 

[flighterdoc]

I have another pack for the nuc attack....KI equipped, MCU2P Gas Mask with extra filters and seals! Damn canteen adapter is broke though

The .380 is because I freaking hate bears and mountain lions in my camp at night and though I have never even had to take it out, it would be my luck the one time I don't bring it that I need it. Plus most of the places I go I have been before helping to chase drug runners in west Texas. I know who hangs out on those trails and I am not taking any chances! It hardly weighs a pound so its not like its extra weight really.

A .380? You anxious for that bear to use it as a rectal speculum on you?

The smallest I'd depend on for large carnivor protection is a .357 Mag +P+ with solid bullets. And I normally favor automatics. In Alaska I carried a .45-70 lever action in the plane.

 

[Willamette]

First of all, flighterdoc has the right idea about what to carry in brown bear country: a 45-70 (preferably the Jim West Co-Pilot), or maybe a 12ga. (not the needle) with slugs...

Also, the little bells on the belt are so that the bears know it's dinner time...

Next, PLEASE don't refer to the MAGAZINE that carries the cartridges in a semi-auto pistol as a CLIP (a clip is ejected from the weapon when the rounds are all expended, while a magazine stays put and must be manually removed)...and for that matter, don't refer to semi-auto pistols as "automatics," it makes you sound like the idiot journalists who still can't tell the difference between "shrapnel" and "explosive fragments."

Finally, although I appreciate the sentiment corpsmanUP (ESPECIALLY the SPOT-ON part about people being more dangerous than the resident fauna), it might be time to trade up to a Glock model 27. I like mine quite a lot.

Willamette

 

[corpsmanUP]

First of all, flighterdoc has the right idea about what to carry in brown bear country: a 45-70 (preferably the Jim West Co-Pilot), or maybe a 12ga. (not the needle) with slugs...

Also, the little bells on the belt are so that the bears know it's dinner time...

Next, PLEASE don't refer to the MAGAZINE that carries the cartridges in a semi-auto pistol as a CLIP (a clip is ejected from the weapon when the rounds are all expended, while a magazine stays put and must be manually removed)...and for that matter, don't refer to semi-auto pistols as "automatics," it makes you sound like the idiot journalists who still can't tell the difference between "shrapnel" and "explosive fragments."

Finally, although I appreciate the sentiment corpsmanUP (ESPECIALLY the SPOT-ON part about people being more dangerous than the resident fauna), it might be time to trade up to a Glock model 27. I like mine quite a lot.

Willamette

The only real reason I carry the .380 is because its light as crap. I also have a .40 caliber Sig Sauer, P229 that I swear is the greatest handgun ever assembled. Its literally 3 pieces, so it can be disassembled and reassembled in about 30 seconds. The only time it has ever jammed on me was when I was using cheap ass ammo loaded from some redneck selling it for like 3 bucks a case. Its deadly accurate even at 25 yards and my guess is that it packs almost the same punch as your typical .45 that won't group 3 rounds within 12" at the same distance. I'm perfectly comfortable with a .380 for defense against a person though. 3 good shots from any handgun and you'll do serious damage to anyone. And as we used to say.....Mozambique!!

 

[flighterdoc]

The only real reason I carry the .380 is because its light as crap. I also have a .40 caliber Sig Sauer, P229 that I swear is the greatest handgun ever assembled. Its literally 3 pieces, so it can be disassembled and reassembled in about 30 seconds. The only time it has ever jammed on me was when I was using cheap ass ammo loaded from some redneck selling it for like 3 bucks a case. Its deadly accurate even at 25 yards and my guess is that it packs almost the same punch as your typical .45 that won't group 3 rounds within 12" at the same distance. I'm perfectly comfortable with a .380 for defense against a person though. 3 good shots from any handgun and you'll do serious damage to anyone. And as we used to say.....Mozambique!!

The very worst 1911 style I have (all in .45 ACP) will group 3" in 25 yards on my worst day. My good .45's (including a Glock G21) can shoot better than I can on my best days.

Bear (the animal you expressed interest in) have a very heavy, very thick, very durable brain case. Even well placed rounds from weapons as large as 12ga shotgun (slugs) have been known to bounce off the case, while really, really pissing off the bear.

Now, you may think "No problem, I'll just shoot ol' Yogi in the eye and cancel his ticket". Good luck - when Yogi tackles you from behind and proceeds to mount you.

BTW, I have a Wild-West Guns Alaskan Co-pilot in .45-70 (very, very nice) but any short, handy, carbine length weapon will do - a semi, a pump or a lever action. A .44Mag carbine will work fine too, as will something like a .357 Mag in long barrel lengths. With even long (say 8") handgun barrels, if you're looking for bear, better make certain you have a guide standing by with a real weapon.

A .22 has killed everything that has walked, crawled, slithered, flown or swam on earth in the last 100 years - but just because it's been done doesn't mean it's a good idea: People have survived falls out of aircraft from 25K feet without parachutes but the smart money wouldn't bet that way.

 

[11-44]

First of all, flighterdoc has the right idea about what to carry in brown bear country: a 45-70 (preferably the Jim West Co-Pilot), or maybe a 12ga. (not the needle) with slugs...

Also, the little bells on the belt are so that the bears know it's dinner time...

Next, PLEASE don't refer to the MAGAZINE that carries the cartridges in a semi-auto pistol as a CLIP (a clip is ejected from the weapon when the rounds are all expended, while a magazine stays put and must be manually removed)...and for that matter, don't refer to semi-auto pistols as "automatics," it makes you sound like the idiot journalists who still can't tell the difference between "shrapnel" and "explosive fragments."

Finally, although I appreciate the sentiment corpsmanUP (ESPECIALLY the SPOT-ON part about people being more dangerous than the resident fauna), it might be time to trade up to a Glock model 27. I like mine quite a lot.



Over time I've become re-accustomed to hearing and using 'clip' instead of 'magazine'. In fact, up until I became a gunny, I thought clip was correct.

What irritates me is when 'bullet' is used instead of 'cartridge'.

I maintain my stance.

 

[8744]

Affirmative on Sig Sauer. Like butter.

Those bear seem pretty big. It seems like you'd want the biggest bullet possible to take one down because while a head shot with a 9 mm would kill it, it's pretty hard to shoot, run, and wipe your ass at the same time.

 

[corpsmanUP]

I swear I think some people set their preferences to search for the word "gun" ever 10 minutes and to have their PC wake them if a new thread is found. I really enjoy weapons, but I don't make them my life.

11-44, what exactly are you referring to as a "gunny". If that is your slang for someone who likes guns, then its about as appropriate as your "clip" statement. If you were somehow referring to your status as a Gunnery Sgt (which I am certain you are not), then you would have known to capitalize Gunny. Either way, its incorrrect use of the word Gunny which belongs to the Marines, so kindly choose a different word to convince us that you eat drink and sleep guns. No offense, but that word is almost sacred in certain circles.

 

[8744]

I swear I think some people set their preferences to search for the word "gun" ever 10 minutes and to have their PC wake them if a new thread is found. I really enjoy weapons, but I don't make them my life.

11-44, what exactly are you referring to as a "gunny". If that is your slang for someone who likes guns, then its about as appropriate as your "clip" statement. If you were somehow referring to your status as a Gunnery Sgt (which I am certain you are not), then you would have known to capitalize Gunny. Either way, its incorrrect use of the word Gunny which belongs to the Marines, so kindly choose a different word to convince us that you eat drink and sleep guns. No offense, but that word is almost sacred in certain circles.

You all know that your love of firearms precludes your becoming physicians?

Right?

Sincerely,

Sgt. Panda Bear, USMC (former)
Kilo Company 3/8
(1983-1991)

 

[11-44]

I swear increasingly more people are becoming tripped up on parsed words such that their triviality speaks volumes. Not speaking 'code' equates not being in the know. Exclusion is thus so very easy, no?

Defining qualifications solely based on syntax or usage without reading the message shows a 'selective firing' of synapses. In retort, responses above in the thread were quite selective-

Several people have chimed in about the laughability of using a .380 (essentially a Euro- police round) for bear and lion hunting. Carrying to 'scare' is akin to firing to 'scare'. I guess it could be used for self-endment (also Euro).

Why continuously defend such a ridiculous position while attacking a straw-man?

 

[Arctic Char]

i humbly suggest an end to this discussion

BLADOW!

 

[colforbinMD]

i humbly suggest an end to this discussion

BLADOW!

Why? It's doing wonders for our numbers on the thread and who doesn't love a good peeing contest?

 

[corpsmanUP]

I agree, lets end this discussion. But not before giving Panda kudos. You got out just as I went in. I was in 90-94, 1st CEB and 7th ESB GWI, Weapons Training Battalion Quantico after that.

And 11-44, just so you know, when you can use a weapon like a Marine, feel free to carry whatever you want and call it whatever you want. But until then, referring to yourself as a Gunny and pretending to understand things you don't will only get you laughed at and called out by those that do. I also love how you change the words of people's posts to fit your need. No one ever said they were hunting anything with a .380. But if you doubt the veracity of my ability to defend myself against anything human or otherwise with a .380, I really don't care.

 

[irrka]

I prefer Bactin over hydrogen peroxide. A good tip when exposed to sumac- ingest a combination of crushed elderberries and mohagany bark extract and immerse the affected site in water for 1-2 hours. Of course a 2 year fellowship helps as well.

i'm sure it also helps if you can FIND elderberries.... or mahogany trees

 

[La Fiera]

Hey i actually wrote a paper about what to bring on an expedietion to cold wilderness environments. if you want the rest of the paper, pm me, and ill send it to you.


Cold Wilderness Medical Kit

Waterproof matches- REI storm proof matches
Lighter- Bic or Zippo (lights at altitude, is windproof, but runs out of fluid quickly)
Cotton Balls soaked in Vaseline- Put in a camera film case (will last indefinitely) This lights easily and will last up to 20 minutes, to help start a fire.
Mirror- glass is the best, as it is hard to scratch, and signals well for help
Safety pin- you never know when this might come in handy
Duct Tape- you never know when this might come in handy
Thermometer- preferably rectal and low reading (below 32 degrees Celsius)
Maps
Compass
Watch- (with hands) This can be used to assess direction (approximately) on a clear day- point the hour hand towards the sun, the point halfway between the hour hand and 12 o’clock indicates south (if in the northern hemisphere). If in the southern hemisphere, the midpoint indicates north.
Whistle- can signal to those looking for you where you are, especially if you have exhausted yourself with yelling.
Knife- with a finger guard to protect from accidental cutting
Moleskin- against blisters
Bandages and gauze pads- for small wounds, and frostbite
Neosporin- for minor wounds
Iodine tablets- to purify water
Diphenhydramine or other antihistamine- consider a non-sedating medicine like Loratidine.
Epinephrine- in cases of anaphylactic shock
Painkillers- Ibuprofen and stronger analgesics
Antidiarrheals- Cipro (against bacterial diarrhea) and Flagyl (for protozoan diarrhea)
Acetazolamide- for prophylaxis of AMS and associated symptoms
Nifedipine- for AMS and associated symptoms in the field
Heavy duty plastic bag- keeps you dry in a wet situation, good for shelter
Survival blanket- will keep you warm if there is nothing else
Water

General: (no cotton as it gets wet and stays wet)
Wool socks/polypropylene socks
Warm hat
Gloves
Waterproof/windproof jacket
Fast drying clothes
Layers of clothing
Sunglasses
Insect repellant
Sunscreen

 

[11-44]

Yes, I too recognize now that there are indeed others with bigger piss streams than mine. I now stand...at ease.

 

[Willamette]

I swear I think some people set their preferences to search for the word "gun" ever 10 minutes and to have their PC wake them if a new thread is found. I really enjoy weapons, but I don't make them my life.

11-44, what exactly are you referring to as a "gunny". If that is your slang for someone who likes guns, then its about as appropriate as your "clip" statement. If you were somehow referring to your status as a Gunnery Sgt (which I am certain you are not), then you would have known to capitalize Gunny. Either way, its incorrrect use of the word Gunny which belongs to the Marines, so kindly choose a different word to convince us that you eat drink and sleep guns. No offense, but that word is almost sacred in certain circles.

Hey! I got here "quickasIcould" when my computer went 'ding!'

BTW corpsmanUP, you won't get any argument from me about three in the boilerroom being quite effective (Mozambique-or-no). For me it came down to what made big holes, would go 'bang' every time I squeezed the trigger, was light enough to carry everyday, and fit my budget. I came up with the Glock 27 (the .40 round being somewhat more effective than the .380 at producing a single shot stop: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4800/one-shot.htm) , although when I can afford it I'd like to get a custom .45.


Willamette

 

[tkim]

I thought Mozambique was double-tap COM and one to the squash?

Glock 27 - present for being the best man at a friend's wedding. (!)

 

[flighterdoc]

I thought Mozambique was double-tap COM and one to the squash?

Glock 27 - present for being the best man at a friend's wedding. (!)

Nice gift

And a Mozambique is 2 in the heart, one to the head, PRN until the goblin goes down.

 

[tkim]

Nice gift

And a Mozambique is 2 in the heart, one to the head, PRN until the goblin goes down.

Ah, I always thought the 2 at center of mass was to slow 'em down enough to place the head shot and take out the CNS. Not sure I could place two in the cor on a moving target.

 

[8744]

Ah, I always thought the 2 at center of mass was to slow 'em down enough to place the head shot and take out the CNS. Not sure I could place two in the cor on a moving target.

Come on now. I just want to distract the bear long enough to get my e-tool out of my pack so I can take him down like a real man.

 

[flighterdoc]

Ah, I always thought the 2 at center of mass was to slow 'em down enough to place the head shot and take out the CNS. Not sure I could place two in the cor on a moving target.

Two to center of mass, if they aren't on the ground at that point (armor?) then one to the head.

If you can't hit a moving, torso-sized target then practice, or get some professional training and then practice.

I recommend Gunsite, and ThunderRanch.

 

[flighterdoc]

Come on now. I just want to distract the bear long enough to get my e-tool out of my pack so I can take him down like a real man.

Good reason to go with a buddy.

One that runs slower than you do

 

[tkim]

Two to center of mass, if they aren't on the ground at that point (armor?) then one to the head.

If you can't hit a moving, torso-sized target then practice, or get some professional training and then practice.

I recommend Gunsite, and ThunderRanch.

I was refering to your version of the Mozambique: two in the heart ("cor"). I can hit torso no problem. It's hitting a something the size of a double fist that's moving that might represent a problem for me.

Actually, I had planned on taking Ayoob's LFI1 course when I was on the East Coast, but my hospital would not consider it for tuition reimbursement. Oh well.

 

[Willamette]

Follow this link for a good explaination of the "Mozambique Drill."


http://www.thegunzone.com/lore.html



Willamette

 

[tkim]

Follow this link for a good explaination of the "Mozambique Drill."


http://www.thegunzone.com/lore.html



Willamette

Ah, that makes some sense. When I've tried it, I always wonder when I'll be good enough to make it a triple-tap instead of a double-tap and a single. Perhaps I'll never reach that point, but it's fun trying to get there.

I should have known Speir knew something about it - he was a regular figure on the Guns-RKBA mailing list when I was subscribed oh so long ago.

 

[La Fiera]

Have you guys ever heard of "bear spray?" Much more affective at getting away from a bear than pissing it off by firing and missing a vital organ. (Which the majority would do when firing a gun)

 

[11-44]

Have you guys ever heard of "bear spray?" Much more affective at getting away from a bear than pissing it off by firing and missing a vital organ. (Which the majority would do when firing a gun)

Unless your delivery method is turret-mounted, my vote is to stay well beyond arms length to even testify to spray's efficacy.

A dead bear is clearly a better bet than a wet bear.

 

[tkim]

Have you guys ever heard of "bear spray?" Much more affective at getting away from a bear than pissing it off by firing and missing a vital organ. (Which the majority would do when firing a gun)

Pepper spray only makes you taste spicy to the bear.

 

[Arctic Char]

Pepper spray only makes you taste spicy to the bear.

horsesh*t. funny thing to say, i'll admit, but you'll respect the spray when the bear charges.

 

[corpsmanUP]

I do actually believe that the spray is good stuff. I use the "mailman" version when I jog and it works great to make a PitBull turn around and run. The problem I have with them is that most spray in a solid straight line stream instead of a "spray". So you have to be pretty accurate at nailing whatever is charging you at 25 mph. It also works well for the yuppie owner who dares to yell at you for having the nerve to spray their $1,200 English Bulldog that was unleashed and biting my ankles as they sat and watched while plucking weeds. Not even a "Get back here boy!". I kid you not, I actually had this happen and the young guy thought he was going to test my resolve by screaming obsenities and coming at me like he was someone impressive. Trust me, those who have never been nailed with CS have no idea what awaits them at the end of a 15 foot stream of cayenne pepper. I actually felt bad when he started crying to the point where I chose not to stay and take "advantage" of his completely blinded as$. I'm not sure if I was more embarrased by this guy crying like a baby or by my 80 pound Redbone Coonhound running away from the yuppie's little bulldog. Bottom line...the spray works for all occasions.

 

[flighterdoc]

I do actually believe that the spray is good stuff. I use the "mailman" version when I jog and it works great to make a PitBull turn around and run. The problem I have with them is that most spray in a solid straight line stream instead of a "spray". So you have to be pretty accurate at nailing whatever is charging you at 25 mph. It also works well for the yuppie owner who dares to yell at you for having the nerve to spray their $1,200 English Bulldog that was unleashed and biting my ankles as they sat and watched while plucking weeds. Not even a "Get back here boy!". I kid you not, I actually had this happen and the young guy thought he was going to test my resolve by screaming obsenities and coming at me like he was someone impressive. Trust me, those who have never been nailed with CS have no idea what awaits them at the end of a 15 foot stream of cayenne pepper. I actually felt bad when he started crying to the point where I chose not to stay and take "advantage" of his completely blinded as$. I'm not sure if I was more embarrased by this guy crying like a baby or by my 80 pound Redbone Coonhound running away from the yuppie's little bulldog. Bottom line...the spray works for all occasions.

Yeah, works fine on pit bulls - try it on a 800lb pissed off brown bear.

 

[ERMudPhud]

Yeah, works fine on pit bulls - try it on a 800lb pissed off brown bear.

This is as close to "evidence based" as you are likely to find on the subject

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

 

[11-44]

On a cynical note- do you think a federal government website would publicly condone carrying of firearms? Imagine the lawsuits referencing this in accidental discharges..