Quit Med School? Failed boards

[WhatIsGoingOn219]

I'm thinking about quitting medical school and am interested in pursuing another health field (like maybe Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner). Am I being stupid? I got a 392 on Comlex and instead of retaking it, I feel it'd be smarter to pursue other fields instead. Will NP/PA programs take me? I just don't know if I'll match into a residency and I'm not sure if I'll survive residency (I've failed classes before so there are already red flags on my application. Although most of my grades second year were very good). With PA/NP programs, I can be done in a few years and be working to pay off these loans. Plus, I already have so much knowledge from medical school so I should be able to get higher grades in PA/NP school. The only reason I'm hesitating to quit right now is because I keep wondering how I'll pay all these loans back. Please help! I really need advice.

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[WhatIsGoingOn219]

@Goro you've always been an inspiration. Advice from you would be great.

 

[Medic741]

I'm thinking about quitting medical school and am interested in pursuing another health field (like maybe Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner). Am I being stupid? I got a 392 on Comlex and instead of retaking it, I feel it'd be smarter to pursue other fields instead. Will NP/PA programs take me? I just don't know if I'll match into a residency and I'm not sure if I'll survive residency (I've failed classes beefore & was a repeating student too so there are already red flags on my application. Although most of my grades second year were very good). With PA/NP programs, I can be done in a few years and be working to pay off these loans. Plus, I already have so much knowledge from medical school so I should be able to get higher grades in PA/NP school. The only reason I'm hesitating to quit right now is because I keep wondering how I'll pay all these loans back. Please help! I really need advice.

Deep breath. 392 is a handful of questions away from passing. Pass on your second try and you’ll match somewhere if you’re ok with FM and make >$200k for the rest of your life post residency. Bail for a shot at a program doing a nearly identical job for ~1/2 the pay? Not worth it.

You’re in pretty deep at this point, keep trucking and keep your eye on the prize.

 

[dodoc00]

I have failed two classes during my first semester and failed level 1 with lower grade than yours. Since then, I have passed all the remaining boards to include USMLE with below average scores. I have applied family medicine program last week and have already received interview invite from two university programs. Work hard to improve your level 2 scores and you will be fine! Don't give up!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Sorry to hear about that OP. If it’s any consolation, 3rd year thus far for me has been an entirely different planet from preclinical. I literally studied every single day during preclinical including holidays and breaks. It was an absolute nightmare. Third year has just been annoying and tiring at worst. Not saying you’ll definitely love or even like it but it just is nothing like the hell you’ve been through up to this point. I’d personally give it one more semester before calling it quits at this point.

Also, as someone else said, you’re crazy close to a pass. Probably like ~5 questions. Really gonna quit here over that?

Disclaimer: if you’re gunning for something competitive, then yes I would personally drop out bc it’s unlikely at that this point.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you like medicine and are willing to work hard to make it, stay.

If you think that you've done all you can and no longer want to or have the will to keep it up, leave.

I think in your case you've failed classes and you've failed comlex 1. I think you'll still match somewhere, people have done it. But the question really when it comes down to it is whether or not you still want to do it in the face of the struggles and adversity. No one will fault you for wanting out, but in the same breathe you're not really out of the game entirely either.

 

[boolin_1]

i got a buddy that failed COMLEX first attempt and passed on 2nd. Just got 2 interviews for FM and he's so stoked

 

[Goro]

I'm thinking about quitting medical school and am interested in pursuing another health field (like maybe Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner). Am I being stupid? I got a 392 on Comlex and instead of retaking it, I feel it'd be smarter to pursue other fields instead. Will NP/PA programs take me? I just don't know if I'll match into a residency and I'm not sure if I'll survive residency (I've failed classes beefore & was a repeating student too so there are already red flags on my application. Although most of my grades second year were very good). With PA/NP programs, I can be done in a few years and be working to pay off these loans. Plus, I already have so much knowledge from medical school so I should be able to get higher grades in PA/NP school. The only reason I'm hesitating to quit right now is because I keep wondering how I'll pay all these loans back. Please help! I really need advice.

How were you as a pre-clinical student?

Why did you do poorly on the COMLEX?

Nearly all of my students who fail COMLEX go on to pass on the retake, and then become doctors, especially if they do better on Level II.

Look, there are still more residency slots than there are bodies to fill them.

 

[samac]

Hey. Level 1 failure here, I’m going to dish a little tough love.
Failing level 1 sucks. Cry a little. Drink a little. Wallow tonight.
Tomorrow wake up and put your big kid pants on. Dropping out for a board failure is a terrible plan. A NP degree would take you 4 more years and different boards. PA would take clinical experience, then 2 years. That doesn’t make sense. Your most economical plan is to retake and do your best.
Figure out where you went wrong and rectify it. You can do it.

 

[hungrydoc710]

You simply, cannot just give up.

 

[Osteosaur]

Just a starting M2 but you passed the part of medical school everyone really, really hates. You owe it to yourself and the time you put into this, and in getting into medical school, another shot.

Every poster above thinks you have a shot at FM.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I don't think you should quit, especially for those careers. You are nearly a doctor and you were very close to passing. Dust yourself off and get back on that horse! You can do it!

 

[FuturePrissyMD4]

You made it to med school after much sacrifice and hard work I’m sure. You’re almost there. Be resilient!

 

[BTDT]

I'm thinking about quitting medical school

Wash this out of your mind immediately. Samac summed it up exactly as it needed to be said. If you give yourself an out, it's that much easier to take it. Take a breath, get some rest, get up tomorrow and prepare to retest.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Giving up is the easy way out. You can do better than this. We believe in you. You've made it through the hard part already...

 

[DennisReynolds]

Giving up now and becoming a NP/PA is a slap in the face to your own hard work and perseverance.

Get your ass in gear.

Focus on your grind and shut down all the fun around you and get ugly cause you got an exam to pass amigo.

You made it alllll this way and want to stop now because of one dumb-ass... poorly-written exam?

Seriously?

You're better than that and you know you are.

Study. Pass it. Move on to third year. Kill rotations by being a normal person who does what you're supposed to. Kill level 2. Get those LORs and apply to FM/Peds/IM/Primary care programs all over.

You'll be alright little homie.

Everybody falls... but not everybody can get back up.

 

[PikminOC]

Giving up now and becoming a NP/PA is a slap in the face to your own hard and perseverance.

Get your ass in gear.

Focus on your grind and shut down all the fun around you and get ugly cause you got an exam to pass amigo.

You made it alllll this way and want to stop now because of one dumb-ass... poorly-written exam?

Seriously?

You're better than that and you know you are.

Study. Pass it. Move on to third year. Kill rotations by being a normal person who does what you're supposed to. Kill level 2. Get those LORs and apply to FM/Peds/IM/Primary care programs all over.

You'll be alright little homie.

Everybody falls... but not everybody can get back up.

I think OP has more education than one at this point...

 

[jurassicpark]

Stop. Take a deep breath. Massage your scalp. Take another deep breath. Two swigs of beer. Repeat.

Once calm, sit at your desk and it's time to do some planning (unless drunk, then wait until sober). First of all : DO NOT GIVE UP. Certainly not at this stage. There's nothing to get around that this will be an uphill battle, but you've already cleared one of the biggest hurdles, you completed two years at a US Medical school.

You need to step back and see what could have happened. Not enough test preparation, studied the wrong materials, nerves etc. How were you doing on practice exams, etc. Then you need to figure out a way to shore up those weak spots, and come up with a solid plan and work work work like you've never worked before.

Many people have failed Step 1/Comlex and gotten through and succeeded.

 

[MedDoc305]

He also needs to take into consideration that he will have to explain his reasoning for having dropped out of medical school. This might hinder his acceptance chances and at least PA school is pretty competitive as is.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Don't give up OP. Keep trucking! You're almost near the end of the race and its too late to give up now. You can pass boards-I've heard a few people in your shoes that pass 2nd try. Also, you could still match Path, FM (go on to do Sports med, geri if you want), community IM (go on to specialize depending on your performance in IM) and Peds. Lots of options even if youre just passing COMLEX. You've been smart enough to get this far so you can finish it out. We believe in you

 

[WhatIsGoingOn219]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the advice and encouragement.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the advice and encouragement.

So your gonna retake right?

 

[AMEHigh]

Hey. Level 1 failure here, I’m going to dish a little tough love.
Failing level 1 sucks. Cry a little. Drink a little. Wallow tonight.
Tomorrow wake up and put your big kid pants on. Dropping out for a board failure is a terrible plan. A NP degree would take you 4 more years and different boards. PA would take clinical experience, then 2 years. That doesn’t make sense. Your most economical plan is to retake and do your best.
Figure out where you went wrong and rectify it. You can do it.

Yep ditto this.
I failed also several years ago.
I’m now in a field and job I love.
I have a friend who failed twice, same story, now doing something they love.
Quitting medicine never crossed my mind. You can do it!

 

[jurassicpark]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the advice and encouragement.

Almost everyone has been in your shoes in one form or another. From a+ student all their life to their first F. It can be very discouraging, but this is medical school. The lessons here are : figure out what went wrong and do your best. The last is the mantra for your future career in general. Do your best for you patient, like your exams you will not be perfect, and you can (and will) fail at times. But knowing you did your best and learning from it will make all the difference in the world.

 

[Mass Effect]

Listen to the advice above. I was dismissed from med school. Dismissed. Done. I came back and graduated and matched into a respected program in my field. Very few things are impossible during the training journey.

Also, I think your chances of getting into PA/NP school may not be that great given that you failed boards. They have their own boards and if they know you failed COMLEX, I think they'd be reluctant to give you a shot, knowing that you may not pass and become licensed in the end.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

When I interview students for our school, I always ask them what the most important quality a med student requires? I believe it is GRIT, that dogged determination to become a physician. I had a student I was certain would fail out.
I and other faculty spent HOURS tutoring them. They worked very, very hard. They scored 600+, like 88th percentile on the COMLEX. I am so proud of them. OP was accepted to med school, so certainly smart enough to do this. It's just a matter of how smart and hard they want to work.
OP needs to honestly re evaluate their study habits and learning style. It will be very hard to dig out of this, but not impossible. Pass the boards and move on. Good luck and best wishes

 

[aspdr]

If this helps you, I failed with a score even lower than yours on my level 1. Took few months off to retake it. Got a 500+ on my retake. Passed all my comats on first attempt with above average scores. Almost made a close to 600 score on the CE (first attempt). Passed the PE on my first attempt. Already getting 10+ IIs. If I can, you certainly can as well. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[NecFasc92]

If this helps you, I failed with a score even lower than yours on my level 1. Took few months off to retake it. Got a 500+ on my retake. Passed all my comats on first attempt with above average scores. Almost made a close to 600 score on the CE (first attempt). Passed the PE on my first attempt. Already getting 10+ IIs. If I can, you certainly can as well. PM me if you have any questions.

Which field did you apply?

 

[hungrydoc710]

Thank you everyone. So some more questions- how does residency work? Do people who struggle in the pre-clinical years have a higher chance of struggling in residency? What are the chances that I'll fail out of residency? Is that even possible? How am I going to balance long hours of work with studying for exams in residency? From what I've heard residency is even harder than medical school. Also, the goal isn't just to get a residency but to also get through the end of residency.

I'm honestly trying to be humble, realistic, & wise. I have plenty of student loan debt and would like to have a stable career in a few years so that I can pay off my debt and support my family (and start being able to spend time with my family too). At this point, I think I have the energy & motivation to go on (I think). But I'm wondering what's the point in continually accruing on debt if there's uncertainty of getting a residency. If I don't get a residency, then I'll have to take a transitional year and I lose a year of salary and loans go into repayment. Then the uncertainty if I'll even make it through a FM residency? I'm a female that would also like to be pregnant in a couple years, and I'd like to be able to balance being a wife and mother and also residency. If I was doing better academically, then I'd have the confidence that I could do it all. But If I'm struggling now, then how will I make through residency... even if I do make it through, what kind of family sacrifices will I have made at that point? It's not worth it for me to get to the end goal if it breaks my family. That's why I was thinking maybe as an NP or PA, I could balance everything better and at least there's a guarantee that I'll have a job. Plus since I would be repeating learning similar content, I think I'd get better grades and do better on their boards (I did pretty well in school as an M2). Doing 2-3 yrs seems more feasible and less daunting than 5-6 more years of this. And then I can start paying back loans faster and be able to take care of my family faster. I was thinking NP/PA might be a wiser idea but maybe I'm just being stupid?

Sorry for the emotional post. Any thoughts and advice is appreciated! Thanks! Also, If there are any women in FM residency that are balancing pregnancy, mom life, etc please PM me. I would love to hear how you're doing it.

Listen, the advice given to you above was given, based on the fact that we thought you were someone who WANTS to become a doctor and were feeling bummed out and just needed some motivation.

It sounds like you've made a decision already.

Becoming a doctor and the years and intensity it takes is not for the faint hearted. People who aren't in this 100%, don't usually make it out.

 

[AMEHigh]

Thank you everyone. So some more questions- how does residency work? Do people who struggle in the pre-clinical years have a higher chance of struggling in residency? What are the chances that I'll fail out of residency? Is that even possible? How am I going to balance long hours of work with studying for exams in residency? From what I've heard residency is even harder than medical school. Also, the goal isn't just to get a residency but to also get through the end of residency.

I'm honestly trying to be humble, realistic, & wise. I have plenty of student loan debt and would like to have a stable career in a few years so that I can pay off my debt and support my family (and start being able to spend time with my family too). At this point, I think I have the energy & motivation to go on (I think). But I'm wondering what's the point in continually accruing on debt if there's uncertainty of getting a residency. If I don't get a residency, then I'll have to take a transitional year and I lose a year of salary and loans go into repayment. Then the uncertainty if I'll even make it through a FM residency? I'm a female that would also like to be pregnant in a couple years, and I'd like to be able to balance being a wife and mother and also residency. If I was doing better academically, then I'd have the confidence that I could do it all. But If I'm struggling now, then how will I make through residency... even if I do make it through, what kind of family sacrifices will I have made at that point? It's not worth it for me to get to the end goal if it breaks my family. That's why I was thinking maybe as an NP or PA, I could balance everything better and at least there's a guarantee that I'll have a job. Plus since I would be repeating learning similar content, I think I'd get better grades and do better on their boards (I did pretty well in school as an M2). Doing 2-3 yrs seems more feasible and less daunting than 5-6 more years of this. And then I can start paying back loans faster and be able to take care of my family faster. I was thinking NP/PA might be a wiser idea but maybe I'm just being stupid?

Sorry for the emotional post. Any thoughts and advice is appreciated! Thanks! Also, If there are any women in FM residency that are balancing pregnancy, mom life, etc please PM me. I would love to hear how you're doing it.

Residency and med school are different so it’s hard to exactly compare the 2. At this point in my life I would have a really really hard time sitting down to study like I did during med school so for me med school seems harder.

Presumably you go into a residency field that you enjoy so it doesn’t feel like work alllll the time. You learn every day in practical ways by seeing and taking care of patients, so it’s a lot easier than sitting down and memorizing facts that might not actually matter in your field in 5-10 years.

Like I said above, I failed and have gone on to do fine. I’ve never been super great at standardized tests, but I’d like to think that I’m a good doctor. Yes some people don’t make it out of residency, but that’s rare and in general, unless you’re at a malignant program, the faculty want to see you do well. So they generally help residents who are struggling academically.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Thank you everyone. So some more questions- how does residency work? Do people who struggle in the pre-clinical years have a higher chance of struggling in residency? What are the chances that I'll fail out of residency? Is that even possible? How am I going to balance long hours of work with studying for exams in residency? From what I've heard residency is even harder than medical school. Also, the goal isn't just to get a residency but to also get through the end of residency.

I'm honestly trying to be humble, realistic, & wise. I have plenty of student loan debt and would like to have a stable career in a few years so that I can pay off my debt and support my family (and start being able to spend time with my family too). At this point, I think I have the energy & motivation to go on (I think). But I'm wondering what's the point in continually accruing on debt if there's uncertainty of getting a residency. If I don't get a residency, then I'll have to take a transitional year and I lose a year of salary and loans go into repayment. Then the uncertainty if I'll even make it through a FM residency? I'm a female that would also like to be pregnant in a couple years, and I'd like to be able to balance being a wife and mother and also residency. If I was doing better academically, then I'd have the confidence that I could do it all. But If I'm struggling now, then how will I make through residency... even if I do make it through, what kind of family sacrifices will I have made at that point? It's not worth it for me to get to the end goal if it breaks my family. That's why I was thinking maybe as an NP or PA, I could balance everything better and at least there's a guarantee that I'll have a job. Plus since I would be repeating learning similar content, I think I'd get better grades and do better on their boards (I did pretty well in school as an M2). Doing 2-3 yrs seems more feasible and less daunting than 5-6 more years of this. And then I can start paying back loans faster and be able to take care of my family faster. I was thinking NP/PA might be a wiser idea but maybe I'm just being stupid?

Sorry for the emotional post. Any thoughts and advice is appreciated! Thanks! Also, If there are any women in FM residency that are balancing pregnancy, mom life, etc please PM me. I would love to hear how you're doing it.

You will get a residency!!! Everyone I’ve talked to in FM/IM have said the same thing: the first two years are the worst. You’ll still have to work for it. You’ll struggle. We all struggle. Don’t give up before you start.

 

[WhatIsGoingOn219]

Listen, the advice given to you above was given, based on the fact that we thought you were someone who WANTS to become a doctor and were feeling bummed out and just needed some motivation.

It sounds like you've made a decision already.

Becoming a doctor and the years and intensity it takes is not for the faint hearted. People who aren't in this 100%, don't usually make it out.

Wow, quite harsh. If I had already made a decision, I wouldn't be posting here and asking for advice.
Also, let's be real for one sec. The reality is that many students have thoughts such as the above and it doesn't mean the person doesn't *want to become a doctor. This field requires a lot of sacrifice and sometimes people re-evaluate what they've gotten into and that doesn't make them less of a person/student. Having thoughts such as the above is human. I know many people who questioned their choice at times and then continued on to becoming excellent physicians. This forum is supposed to be a support group/area for advice so I hope we'd create an area where trainees could be vulnerable and be able to get supportive feedback, instead of being judged & labeled "faint hearted".

 

[hungrydoc710]

Wow, quite harsh. If I had already made a decision, I wouldn't be posting here and asking for advice.
Also, let's be real for one sec. The reality is that many students have thoughts such as the above and it doesn't mean the person doesn't *want to become a doctor. This field requires a lot of sacrifice and sometimes people re-evaluate what they've gotten into and that doesn't make them less of a person/student. Having thoughts such as the above is human. I know many people who questioned their choice at times and then continued on to becoming excellent physicians. This forum is supposed to be a support group/area for advice so I hope we'd create an area where trainees could be vulnerable and be able to get supportive feedback, instead of being judged & labeled "faint hearted".

People have given you sound advice. Including myself.

This forum also isn't always about being comforted. Rather its a place for the honest truth, when family, friends won't give you it bc they are worried about your feelings.

I think that you could easily pass, and get a FM/Peeds/Path residency.
I also think you are in danger of not passing again, bc your mind is in another place, thinking about NP/PA school, etc.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I agree that you need to be fully committed to medicine to continue forward. If you keep on doubting and questioning yourself you'll only hinder yourself from giving 100% the rest of the way. You can definitely have a family and have kids while in residency plenty of people have done it. I'm an OMS2 and I know people in my class that are married and have kids and are still doing well, so there's no reason to think you can't have those in Residency, and there's no guarantee you'll be better off as an NP/PA either. My advice to you would be to make up your mind on what you really wanna do, and fully commit to it without any doubt or questions.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Wow, quite harsh. If I had already made a decision, I wouldn't be posting here and asking for advice.
Also, let's be real for one sec. The reality is that many students have thoughts such as the above and it doesn't mean the person doesn't *want to become a doctor. This field requires a lot of sacrifice and sometimes people re-evaluate what they've gotten into and that doesn't make them less of a person/student. Having thoughts such as the above is human. I know many people who questioned their choice at times and then continued on to becoming excellent physicians. This forum is supposed to be a support group/area for advice so I hope we'd create an area where trainees could be vulnerable and be able to get supportive feedback, instead of being judged & labeled "faint hearted".

Go all in. You need to dump the backup. Medicine or bust is the attitude you need to have. Quite frankly you will hate being an NP if you made it all the way to the 3rd year of medical school and quit. You will know you could have done more. If you told me you wanted to quit and become a pilot, I would support that plan alot more than becoming a mid/low level provider. As is you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of resentment and 'what if' by even toying with the NP/PA thing. Go put on your big boy/girl pants and become a physician. Time to DO brother!

 

[WhatIsGoingOn219]

People have given you sound advice. Including myself.

This forum also isn't always about being comforted. Rather its a place for the honest truth, when family, friends won't give you it bc they are worried about your feelings.

I think that you could easily pass, and get a FM/Peeds/Path residency.
I also think you are in danger of not passing again, bc your mind is in another place, thinking about NP/PA school, etc.

You make some good points. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You are taking things way too fast
Now is not the time to worry about residency or starting a family. Slow down, and go step by step.
1. Pass the boards. Your ONLY concern right now.
2. Get a residency, your only concern after passing boards. Play the match game well. Lots of great advice on the forum. Utilize it.
3. Think about family planning after you are settled in at residency.
Open up a can of GRIT and get busy. You got this far in medical school, you can do this

 

[hallowmann]

I agree that you need to be fully committed to medicine to continue forward. If you keep on doubting and questioning yourself you'll only hinder yourself from giving 100% the rest of the way. You can definitely have a family and have kids while in residency plenty of people have done it. I'm an OMS2 and I know people in my class that are married and have kids and are still doing well, so there's no reason to think you can't have those in Residency, and there's no guarantee you'll be better off as an NP/PA either. My advice to you would be to make up your mind on what you really wanna do, and fully commit to it without any doubt or questions.

Residency is way harder than med school from a family planning standpoint. At most programs you're limited to 6-8 wks maternity leave (and that's with one being an elective where you do research/present on being a new parent) and 1-4 wks paternity leave (again the 4 wks being a "parental elective"). You will be working anywhere from 50-80 hrs/wk, which on those high hour rotations with travel time may mean you don't see your spouse or kids (awake) except on those 4 days off a month.

That said, yes, you absolutely can have a family in residency. The majority of married residents I know have had children in residency, myself included. Its manageable, but I'd recommend against it during intern year.

 

[aspdr]

Which field did you apply?

IM

 

[Hippocrates II]

Thank you everyone. So some more questions- how does residency work? Do people who struggle in the pre-clinical years have a higher chance of struggling in residency? What are the chances that I'll fail out of residency? Is that even possible? How am I going to balance long hours of work with studying for exams in residency? From what I've heard residency is even harder than medical school. Also, the goal isn't just to get a residency but to also get through the end of residency.

I'm honestly trying to be humble, realistic, & wise. I have plenty of student loan debt and would like to have a stable career in a few years so that I can pay off my debt and support my family (and start being able to spend time with my family too). At this point, I think I have the energy & motivation to go on (I think). But I'm wondering what's the point in continually accruing on debt if there's uncertainty of getting a residency. If I don't get a residency, then I'll have to take a transitional year and I lose a year of salary and loans go into repayment. Then the uncertainty if I'll even make it through a FM residency? I'm a female that would also like to be pregnant in a couple years, and I'd like to be able to balance being a wife and mother and also residency. If I was doing better academically, then I'd have the confidence that I could do it all. But If I'm struggling now, then how will I make through residency... even if I do make it through, what kind of family sacrifices will I have made at that point? It's not worth it for me to get to the end goal if it breaks my family. That's why I was thinking maybe as an NP or PA, I could balance everything better and at least there's a guarantee that I'll have a job. Plus since I would be repeating learning similar content, I think I'd get better grades and do better on their boards (I did pretty well in school as an M2). Doing 2-3 yrs seems more feasible and less daunting than 5-6 more years of this. And then I can start paying back loans faster and be able to take care of my family faster. I was thinking NP/PA might be a wiser idea but maybe I'm just being stupid?

Sorry for the emotional post. Any thoughts and advice is appreciated! Thanks! Also, If there are any women in FM residency that are balancing pregnancy, mom life, etc please PM me. I would love to hear how you're doing it.

Sounds like you need to really think about what you want out of life and go from there. From the above, you do not sound like you're ready to place medicine before other things like family, time with kids, etc. I have kids (2nd year student) and it does break my heart often at how much time I spend studying instead of playing with them, but I'm accepting that now for what I hope will be a better life for them later on. It is exhausting to be a medical student, husband, and parent, but I do the best that I can for each of them. If you are not ready and willing to accept that other aspects of life may have to be put on hold or not given your full attention, then maybe this isn't for you and the NP/PA route would be better. Residency will be a 50-80 hour a week commitment - it is more or less impossible for most people to work those hours and be a fully available partner, parent, etc. I imagine it's even more difficult for women after seeing how much more attached my kids were to my wife than me after they were born.

Personally, I think you have come too far to give up now, but only you can make the call on what is worth it to you. The NP/PA route isn't bad, and unlike SDN, most people in the real world aren't pricks to PAs/NPs. I have several friends who have gone that route and they enjoy their lives, have families, and make >six figures without medical students who have probably never worked a day in their life looking down on them. But, after the time and money you have invested into medical school, I wouldn't throw in the towel unless you really aren't prepared for the continued investment it will take to become a doctor.

 

[Rasper]

Yep ditto this.
I failed also several years ago.
I’m now in a field and job I love.
I have a friend who failed twice, same story, now doing something they love.
Quitting medicine never crossed my mind. You can do it!

I have a question about your friend that failed twice... did they go on to do well on level 2? I’ve failed twice and am really struggling to stay positive in regards residency placement. Definitely losing will power and have been strongly considering dropping out. What was your friend’s experience?

 

[libertyyne]

Residency is way harder than med school from a family planning standpoint. At most programs you're limited to 6-8 wks maternity leave (and that's with one being an elective where you do research/present on being a new parent) and 1-4 wks paternity leave (again the 4 wks being a "parental elective"). You will be working anywhere from 50-80 hrs/wk, which on those high hour rotations with travel time may mean you don't see your spouse or kids (awake) except on those 4 days off a month.

That said, yes, you absolutely can have a family in residency. The majority of married residents I know have had children in residency, myself included. Its manageable, but I'd recommend against it during intern year.

FMLA laws apply to medical residents after intern year. This doesnt mean that the residency program wont extract a few months out of your at the end of residency to make up for it. FMLA provides new mothers and fathers with up to 12 weeks by law, some states may have modifcations to this.

 

[hallowmann]

FMLA laws apply to medical residents after intern year. This doesnt mean that the residency program wont extract a few months out of your at the end of residency to make up for it. FMLA provides new mothers and fathers with up to 12 weeks by law, some states may have modifcations to this.

Virtually all RRCs require extension of residency with >30-60 days off in a year. Also, FMLA is unpaid leave up to 12 wks provided you've been at the same employer for >12 mos. If you do your internship at another location or if you are actually employed by a different entity in intern year despite being physically in the same hospital (e.g. like employed by the med school for intern year, but by the hospital for rest of residency), that may change when FMLA is active.

Most residents don't have the financial security to be unpaid for months at a time without outside help.

In general, you should know the policies of your program and plan accordingly. It's still hard though.

 

[libertyyne]

Virtually all RRCs require extension of residency with >30-60 days off in a year. Also, FMLA is unpaid leave up to 12 wks provided you've been at the same employer for >12 mos. If you do your internship at another location or if you are actually employed by a different entity in intern year despite being physically in the same hospital (e.g. like employed by the med school for intern year, but by the hospital for rest of residency), that may change when FMLA is active.

Most residents don't have the financial security to be unpaid for months at a time without outside help.

In general, you should know the policies of your program and plan accordingly. It's still hard though.

Yes those exceptions may apply. However saying that you only get 6-8 weeks off is still false. You get the time off without pay, as do most Americans with jobs considering most employers do not provide great paternity or maternity leaves. Most Americans dont have the financial security to be unpaid for months at a time either, but this discussion was one of time off.

There is no great time for having children. only less bad times. However, many people in residency or even medical school have children.

 

[AMEHigh]

I have a question about your friend that failed twice... did they go on to do well on level 2? I’ve failed twice and am really struggling to stay positive in regards residency placement. Definitely losing will power and have been strongly considering dropping out. What was your friend’s experience?

I don’t know their scores.

 

[libertyyne]

Definitely not the case from what I've seen.

Maybe we dont live in the same country. We have some of the worst policies/ paid leave laws for maternity or paternity in the industrialized world.

Access to paid and unpaid family leave in 2018 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

In March 2018, 17 percent of all civilian workers had access to paid family leave, and 89 percent had access to unpaid family leave. Employers provide family leave for employees to care for family members. This leave includes maternity and paternity leave. The leave also may be available to care...

www.bls.gov

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Well I guess I'm comparing to white collar jobs that my family/friends do (and this includes high stress environments like Wall Street). Maybe this is more true for blue collar workers.

“Maybe this is more true for blue collar workers.”

Like for reals?!?

Yeah bro... I think you’re on to something. I’d follow that thread a little more; it might lead you to some self awareness.

 

[hallowmann]

Yes those exceptions may apply. However saying that you only get 6-8 weeks off is still false. You get the time off without pay, as do most Americans with jobs considering most employers do not provide great paternity or maternity leaves. Most Americans dont have the financial security to be unpaid for months at a time either, but this discussion was one of time off...

Except during intern year. Except in those situations I described. And you may also adversely be affected by it depending on your program, and unlike other jobs where you at least have the potential to apply and find other work easily if you are forced out, as a resident, you wouldn't have that. Its very difficult to recover from something going wrong in residency.

...There is no great time for having children. only less bad times. However, many people in residency or even medical school have children.

Did you not read the first post I posted (which you quoted)? This is exactly what I said:
"That said, yes, you absolutely can have a family in residency. The majority of married residents I know have had children in residency, myself included. Its manageable, but I'd recommend against it during intern year. "

 

[libertyyne]

Except during intern year. Except in those situations I described. And you may also adversely be affected by it depending on your program, and unlike other jobs where you at least have the potential to apply and find other work easily if you are forced out, as a resident, you wouldn't have that. Its very difficult to recover from something going wrong in residency.



Did you not read the first post I posted (which you quoted)? This is exactly what I said:
"That said, yes, you absolutely can have a family in residency. The majority of married residents I know have had children in residency, myself included. Its manageable, but I'd recommend against it during intern year. "

I'm sorry is there an epidemic of people being forced out of residency because they had children ?
Most of the non malignant programs will ask the resident to take a research year at worst and maybe work a few months after projected grad date.
Yes you probably shouldn't have children during intern year. But that is only one year.

Also you don't have to argue for the sake of arguing. Especially is someone is agreeing with you on that particular point.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm sorry is there an epidemic of people being forced out of residency because they had children ?
Most of the non malignant programs will ask the resident to take a research year at worst and maybe work a few months after projected grad date.
Yes you probably shouldn't have children during intern year. But that is only one year.

Also you don't have to argue for the sake of arguing. Especially is someone is agreeing with you on that particular point.