Quitting Dentistry for Medicine?

[Big Time Hoosier]

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but a true friend will help you move a body.

I just use the same group as the Clinton Foundation. Very professional outfit, highly recommend.

Big Hoss

 

[TanMan]

100% agree with this and I have seen it first hand with family members, friends, etc.

Yes you could get married with someone and divorce many years later and get screwed. However, that's the risk people are willing to take and if it works out, it's the best thing that will ever happen to them. Having a loyal partner and children with that person, seeing them grow up, spending time with them. That is just priceless.

and No friends are NEVER going to be the same as family. EVER.

And another thing is that people can get married, and stay together for the kids, but are ultimately miserable. I see that more often than not. Or they put on a facade for the public that things are nice and rosy.

I just use the same group as the Clinton Foundation. Very professional outfit, highly recommend.

View attachment 402878

Big Hoss

Hahahahahaha, I wouldn't want you to go missing or accidentally get "suicided" if you happen to have any information regarding the Clintons.

 

[Ne Ge]

But this is an excellent way to get burnt out and hate dentistry. I cannot FATHOM ever working this job 7 days a week. I ended up moving to the middle of nowhere working four days a week making about 200k. Had I done five days a week I probably could have been near 250k but I didn't need the extra money, and I found my back really hurting after four days. My friends who live in civilization are all still around 130-140k, some still less than that. Cities now are so saturated it's just hard to get the volume of patients to really produce as an associate.

If your back hurts after 4 days, then you're definitely doing something wrong. I'm in late 50s, no such physical issues from dentistry.

 

[JacquesVallee]

If you back hurts after 4 days, then you're definitely doing something wrong. I'm in late 50s, no such physical issues from dentistry.

Had a back injury from high school and wear a back brace which helps.

 

[Ne Ge]

Had a back injury from high school and wear a back brace which helps.

Ah, sorry to hear that. But your situation is not typical of a dentist who has correct ergonomics.

 

[Ne Ge]

Yes, dentistry is still one of the best professions. It’s too bad that many of our colleagues don’t think so and have the “grass is greener” syndrome.

By my standard, I think my practice is doing very well….beyond what I’ve expected, especially for being in a very oversaturated market like So Cal. But I still need my wife’s income. It’s expensive to live here. Back when we were in our mid 30s, early 40s, we were drowning in debt so we both had to work very hard. The student loans were paid off but we still had 2 practice loans, a home mortgage, and 3 rental property mortgages. I didn't become 100% debt-free until I turned 49. I am 53 now. Now, even with the fully paid off house, I still have to pay $3000/month just to live in it (property taxes, insurance, HOA, utility etc). Our monthly living budget is $17k/month (or over $200k/yr). This is just the basic living budget, which doesn’t include travel expenses and shopping.

As Pablo Sanchez pointed out, it’s not just about picking up kids from school. You have to drive them to the after-school sport events, watch them play, buy food for the team, and celebrate with the team etc. Sometimes I was too busy working. I showed up late and only watched part of the game.

We are not wealthy enough to afford such luxury first class/private lounge travel.

Wow, do you live in a mansion, in a high end part of SoCal?

 

[702]

If your back hurts after 4 days, then you're definitely doing something wrong. I'm in late 50s, no such physical issues from dentistry.

People’s back hurt even without doing dentistry bro

 

[AONLINE]

But this is an excellent way to get burnt out and hate dentistry. I cannot FATHOM ever working this job 7 days a week. I ended up moving to the middle of nowhere working four days a week making about 200k. Had I done five days a week I probably could have been near 250k but I didn't need the extra money, and I found my back really hurting after four days. My friends who live in civilization are all still around 130-140k, some still less than that. Cities now are so saturated it's just hard to get the volume of patients to really produce as an associate.

Are these numbers you talked about from 10 years ago? From my own experience, the minimum guarantee nowadays is 180-190k for a 4-day work week. And no this is not middle of nowhere, I got these numbers from my own experience working different jobs in 2 different metro areas each with a few millions in population, one is in the Midwest and the other in the Southeast. I can get jobs that pay 300,000k+ if I am willing to go 2 hours away for both of the 2 metro areas. I still keep up with a lot of my classmates after graduation (we're class of 2021) and I think it will be very hard to find one that is making less than 200k if they are working full-time (i.e. at least 4 days/wk) as a dentist. I think it's simply impossible to make 130-140k as a dentist nowadays IF one is working at least 4 days/wk.

 

[LFA20]

Are these numbers you talked about from 10 years ago? From my own experience, the minimum guarantee nowadays is 180-190k for a 4-day work week. And no this is not middle of nowhere, I got these numbers from my own experience working different jobs in 2 different metro areas each with a few millions in population, one is in the Midwest and the other in the Southeast. I can get jobs that pay 300,000k+ if I am willing to go 2 hours away for both of the 2 metro areas. I still keep up with a lot of my classmates after graduation (we're class of 2021) and I think it will be very hard to find one that is making less than 200k if they are working full-time (i.e. at least 4 days/wk) as a dentist. I think it's simply impossible to make 130-140k as a dentist nowadays IF one is working at least 4 days/wk.

If you were to increase your work day working at your current location (I.e 5-6 days a week) how much would you say you would be able to make? Do you feel that as you gain more experience you can hit 250k-300k working similar number of hours in the same location?
Or would you need to do more variety of procedures such as implants, grafting, molar endo, etc.

 

[AONLINE]

If you were to increase your work day working at your current location (I.e 5-6 days a week) how much would you say you would be able to make? Do you feel that as you gain more experience you can hit 250k-300k working similar number of hours in the same location?
Or would you need to do more variety of procedures such as implants, grafting, molar endo, etc.

At my current job I don't think I have enough patients to fill my schedule 5 days/wk. My current schedule at 4 days/wk is not packed, I still have plenty of openings every day (that's when I browse reddit and SDN). Right now I only do bread and butter, no implant placement, no molar endo. A lot of extractions and bone graft. My production is about $70k/mo. I would say on average my pre-tax paycheck is about $20k/mo, which is very modest compared to other dentists that already shared their incomes in this thread. Of course as a dentist there is no PTO, you eat what you kill so if I take a week off for vacation my paycheck for that month goes down by a few thousands dollars. Anyways, with my current job, making $250k working 4 days/wk is an attainable goal. $300k... not so much due to the lack of patients (and maybe due to my lack of skillsets in molar endo/implant placement).

 

[LFA20]

At my current job I don't think I have enough patients to fill my schedule 5 days/wk. My current schedule at 4 days/wk is not packed, I still have plenty of openings every day (that's when I browse reddit and SDN). Right now I only do bread and butter, no implant placement, no molar endo. A lot of extractions and bone graft. My production is about $70k/mo. I would say on average my pre-tax paycheck is about $20k/mo, which is very modest compared to other dentists that already shared their incomes in this thread. Of course as a dentist there is no PTO, you eat what you kill so if I take a week off for vacation my paycheck for that month goes down by a few thousands of dollars. Anyways, with my current job, making $250k working 4 days/wk is an attainable goal. $300k... not so much due to the lack of patients (and maybe due to my lack of skillsets in molar endo/implant placement).

That's still some amazing numbers with only 4 day work week. I am just preparing myself for private practice once I am retired from the military lol... I'd be happy if I can hit these numbers. So after tax/deductions you would net around $14k a month?

 

[Molar Whisperer]

That's still some amazing numbers with only 4 day work week. I am just preparing myself for private practice once I am retired from the military lol... I'd be happy if I can hit these numbers. So after tax/deductions you would net around $14k a month?

You'll be plenty happy. With your comprehensive military skill set, you will produce bank plus receive retirement. You will have more LFAs than Jay Leno's Garage.

 

[LFA20]

You'll be plenty happy. With your comprehensive military skill set, you will produce bank plus receive retirement. You will have more LFAs than Jay Leno's Garage.

lol stop it with the LFA joke. I don’t even like Lexus 😂

 

[AONLINE]

That's still some amazing numbers with only 4 day work week. I am just preparing myself for private practice once I am retired from the military lol... I'd be happy if I can hit these numbers. So after tax/deductions you would net around $14k a month?

Yes my net after tax is around $14k/mo as I file tax single. You can net more if you have a spouse to file tax jointly. And I am sure once you go to private practice your income will surpass that number by a lot as your skillsets are much wider than me.

 

[Molar Whisperer]

lol stop it with the LFA joke. I don’t even like Lexus 😂

Sorry, I thought that was your dream car. It was dubbed by some sources as the most perfect car ever made.

 

[2TH MVR]

Sorry, I thought that was your dream car. It was dubbed by some sources as the most perfect car ever made.

Not a fan of the styling, but the sound of that LFA V10 is glorious.

 

[TanMan]

Getting back to dentistry v. medicine, I think as gp-dentist owners, we can rival our medical counterparts in terms of income and lifestyle. If you're looking at it as a gp-associate, of course your income would be limited unless you had an office that gave you at least 50% + large supply of patients + full autonomy + doctor speed.

 

[clarkbar]

Haha, I'm just gonna lurk around a little more.

Edit:
I think you guys are too focused on the money and not about experiencing life while you're still young. Doing crazy $hit in your 20s and early 30s is totally different than in your 40s+. Your youth will not always be there, and maximizing wealth doesn't equate to maximizing happiness. Go spend time with your family, go buy the things that you can enjoy when you're still young and not when you are 60+ (looking at the midlife crisis ferrari guy in his 60s trying to attract college girls), and achieve that work-life balance. I still think dentistry gives you that flexibility v. medicine. Besides, in one of my businesses, I just hire medical directors for a nominal fee and I don't even have to have an MD/DO. That's how easy it is to get an MD/DO's services without being one.

I generally agree with this, but is this compatible with society as working people?
I stepped away from an amazing, though with a limited shelf life, lifestyle to enter healthcare. Actually, it was a gap year thing, but realized there was other life out there.
I suppose, if one could really plan, think what you want to do, then work abroad for a few years, get everything out of your system, then start grad school. However, with healthcare, pre reques expire rapidly--I think they all have expire after 8 years.

 

[TanMan]

I generally agree with this, but is this compatible with society as working people?
I stepped away from an amazing, though with a limited shelf life, lifestyle to enter healthcare. Actually, it was a gap year thing, but realized there was other life out there.
I suppose, if one could really plan, think what you want to do, then work abroad for a few years, get everything out of your system, then start grad school. However, with healthcare, pre reques expire rapidly--I think they all have expire after 8 years.

Just because you're getting an education, doesn't mean you can't do all the fun stuff. Work hard, play hard. So by the time you've graduated, you are able to have the means to go bigger and do more things that you couldn't do as a broke college student.

 

[clarkbar]

Just because you're getting an education, doesn't mean you can't do all the fun stuff. Work hard, play hard. So by the time you've graduated, you are able to have the means to go bigger and do more things that you couldn't do as a broke college student.

What is the balance? students seem to persevere and pull through. but with that amount of material in the basic sciences years, how do people modify studing? Going over the material meticulously and methodically, focusing on likely main points is not enough?
Some schools it is impossible to pass the test this way, and one must use past exams, memorize those questions or pick up on hints in lecture.

What do people do for balance?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Some schools it is impossible to pass the test this way, and one must use past exams, memorize those questions

So…cheat?

Big Hoss

 

[TanMan]

What is the balance? students seem to persevere and pull through. but with that amount of material in the basic sciences years, how do people modify studing? Going over the material meticulously and methodically, focusing on likely main points is not enough?
Some schools it is impossible to pass the test this way, and one must use past exams, memorize those questions or pick up on hints in lecture.

What do people do for balance?

Do the bare minimum to get an A, take every advantage to do well, network with the people who can help you, and the rest of the time, have fun. Same deal with the DAT, do the bare minimum to get into the 90+ percentile

Work smart, not that hard. Understand how you learn well, and study that way. Some people are great at cramming, some people are not. If you're a great crammer, then it's easier to have a balance, since you don't really need to study until the night or two before. If you're the slow and steady type, you'll have less continuous time to enjoy life but it can still be segmented. Not everything you learn needs to be retained, just enough to get an A on your test.

The balance exists in that you need to achieve your academic goals while making time for yourself too. If you're the partying type and drink a lot, you have to know your limits so that your personal life doesn't affect your professional/academic life.

 

[clarkbar]

Do the bare minimum to get an A, take every advantage to do well, network with the people who can help you, and the rest of the time, have fun. Same deal with the DAT, do the bare minimum to get into the 90+ percentile

Work smart, not that hard. Understand how you learn well, and study that way. Some people are great at cramming, some people are not. If you're a great crammer, then it's easier to have a balance, since you don't really need to study until the night or two before. If you're the slow and steady type, you'll have less continuous time to enjoy life but it can still be segmented. Not everything you learn needs to be retained, just enough to get an A on your test.

The balance exists in that you need to achieve your academic goals while making time for yourself too. If you're the partying type and drink a lot, you have to know your limits so that your personal life doesn't affect your professional/academic life.

Im talking about in dental school. Getting in is much easier, than getting through.
What students are good to network with? Group studying usually is not too effective. I assume the most deviant minds can sniff out possible test questions and will only share with their friends. How do they do this?
How does one shift studying from undergrad to dental school, in the preclinical years?

 

[TanMan]

Im talking about in dental school. Getting in is much easier, than getting through.
What students are good to network with? Group studying usually is not too effective. I assume the most deviant minds can sniff out possible test questions and will only share with their friends. How do they do this?
How does one shift studying from undergrad to dental school, in the preclinical years?

Oh, every group has their own source and materials to aid in studying. Ideally, you should befriend every group. Do you really want to know how they gain an advantage and materials? If you bring that question up to any group, you may be blacklisted.

Get along with every group, don't be a straight up gunner, don't bring up ethical qualms or threats to people, study hard, and party hard with everyone. Be liked by most people. You can't please everyone. These groups are like gangs, you need to earn their respect before they let you "in".

That's the simple formula.

 

[clarkbar]

Oh, every group has their own source and materials to aid in studying. Ideally, you should befriend every group. Do you really want to know how they gain an advantage and materials? If you bring that question up to any group, you may be blacklisted.

Get along with every group, don't be a straight up gunner, don't bring up ethical qualms or threats to people, study hard, and party hard with everyone. Be liked by most people. You can't please everyone. These groups are like gangs, you need to earn their respect before they let you "in".

That's the simple formula.

what about changing study habits and strategies for the larger information?

 

[TanMan]

what about changing study habits and strategies for the larger information?

You need to know yourself in terms of how well you study. Cramming works for me, it may not for you. I could go without ever seeing the professor, just study the powerpoints and materials for 22+hours a day for about a week and take the tests. My system may not work for everyone, so YMMV. Classes were mostly pointless for me unless attendance was mandatory. That gets to the point of time management... manage your time well. In one of our semesters, we had 15 finals in a week. There were really important classes that you didn't want to fail, and there were some that you didn't have to put very much time into. Those in the latter, we (some people), didn't look at until the day or day before the exam. Don't do things that aren't mandatory and are perceivably pointless. That frees up more time for studying or clinically relevant training. Everything in dentistry eventually connects together, and the answers sound almost all the same with the same logic and everything else.

 

[Ascent23510]

Guys I made my decision and have chosen to go with a medical degree!

The biggest things that made me choose it over dental was that it seems like my image of dentistry was distorted of this field that was an easy gig with 300-400K pay. It was mostly due to the older dentists I shadowed and I now realize that the newer grads are not in the same boat.

One of my closest friends essentially told me that my earning potential is higher as a dentist but I’d have to basically sell like crazy. He also complained a lot about saturation which I was not very aware of.

Thanks to all the dentists for the advice

 

[JacquesVallee]

Guys I made my decision and have chosen to go with a medical degree!

The biggest things that made me choose it over dental was that it seems like my image of dentistry was distorted of this field that was an easy gig with 300-400K pay. It was mostly due to the older dentists I shadowed and I now realize that the newer grads are not in the same boat.

One of my closest friends essentially told me that my earning potential is higher as a dentist but I’d have to basically sell like crazy. He also complained a lot about saturation which I was not very aware of.

Thanks to all the dentists for the advice

Good decision. Best of luck with med school.

 

[D1Bound]

Guys I made my decision and have chosen to go with a medical degree!

The biggest things that made me choose it over dental was that it seems like my image of dentistry was distorted of this field that was an easy gig with 300-400K pay. It was mostly due to the older dentists I shadowed and I now realize that the newer grads are not in the same boat.

One of my closest friends essentially told me that my earning potential is higher as a dentist but I’d have to basically sell like crazy. He also complained a lot about saturation which I was not very aware of.

Thanks to all the dentists for the advice

Not a bad decision. Medicine is more interesting tbh

 

[yappy]

Guys I made my decision and have chosen to go with a medical degree!

The biggest things that made me choose it over dental was that it seems like my image of dentistry was distorted of this field that was an easy gig with 300-400K pay. It was mostly due to the older dentists I shadowed and I now realize that the newer grads are not in the same boat.

One of my closest friends essentially told me that my earning potential is higher as a dentist but I’d have to basically sell like crazy. He also complained a lot about saturation which I was not very aware of.

Thanks to all the dentists for the advice

That’s exciting! You were not 100% into dentistry, but obviously, you want a career in healthcare.
I think the biggest benefit of your decision is that you will be able to keep your options open, find something that is best suited to you, and commit at a later date. You might even find a field in medicine that is similar to the positives you saw in dentistry.

 

[TanMan]

Guys I made my decision and have chosen to go with a medical degree!

The biggest things that made me choose it over dental was that it seems like my image of dentistry was distorted of this field that was an easy gig with 300-400K pay. It was mostly due to the older dentists I shadowed and I now realize that the newer grads are not in the same boat.

One of my closest friends essentially told me that my earning potential is higher as a dentist but I’d have to basically sell like crazy. He also complained a lot about saturation which I was not very aware of.

Thanks to all the dentists for the advice

Congrats on making a choice! Although in dentistry, you don't have to sell, your staff does that for you... and typically, if the patient is in pain, selling is very easy because they want to be out of pain.