Racist interaction with lab tech

[Goro]

What's wrong with reporting after the rotation is done?

Because it will appear as sour grapes or personality dispute/getting even. It needs to be done now, not after the fact.

Doing the right thing sure seems to be hard for some of you. If the lab tech dropped the N-word, referred to a gay patient as a f*****t, or called an Orthodox Jewish patient a k**e, you'd still advise waiting until the end of the rotation??

There are laws that protect people who complain to HR about these things, BTW.

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[Saleem_Rakeem]

Hey guys, so I'm looking for some advice about a recent incident. So I'm a Chinese American student (important for story) who is currently on a rotation in a rural area, and we have to spend some time in the ER on call. I was introduced to this (white) lab tech who was also working that night, and she asked me what nationality I was, and when I said I was Chinese, she said (actual quote) "Oh I hate you, my mom has COVID". Quite frankly, I was extremely shocked by her comment and had no idea how to react. I think she realized that she had messed up and she immediately started saying she did not mean it and she did not know why she said it, but then when I came back into the ER a little while later she said sort of haha-jokingly-we're all in this together-kind of way that she had told the nurses and on-call provider in the ER what she had said to me, and they were "appalled", except everyone around us just sort of looked slightly awkward. I guess my question is I'm not sure if I should mention something like this to my school or just let it go? Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, I'm just upset right now and not sure if I'm overreacting or not

Hey guys, so I'm looking for some advice about a recent incident. So I'm a Chinese American student (important for story) who is currently on a rotation in a rural area, and we have to spend some time in the ER on call. I was introduced to this (white) lab tech who was also working that night, and she asked me what nationality I was, and when I said I was Chinese, she said (actual quote) "Oh I hate you, my mom has COVID". Quite frankly, I was extremely shocked by her comment and had no idea how to react. I think she realized that she had messed up and she immediately started saying she did not mean it and she did not know why she said it, but then when I came back into the ER a little while later she said sort of haha-jokingly-we're all in this together-kind of way that she had told the nurses and on-call provider in the ER what she had said to me, and they were "appalled", except everyone around us just sort of looked slightly awkward. I guess my question is I'm not sure if I should mention something like this to my school or just let it go? Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, I'm just upset right now and not sure if I'm overreacting or not.

First, I am very sorry, troubled, BUT NOT surprised you experienced this. As has been mentioned by others, "letting it go" is never a viable option for changing and preventing racist or at the least, hostile work place environments.

There have always been those persons, no matter if the person experienced racist comments, actions or worse, to try to lessen, diminish or excuse it, sweep it under a rug, say it was a joke gone bad, etc. I am NOT attacking any of the well intentioned comments or suggestions you have received, I think folks are trying to be helpful, whether they say report or not report.

However, that direct statement, put for by the only president to be impeached twice-that exact racist lie, is the exact thing your co-worker repeated, and it has no place in the workplace, it is classic, part and parcel, of the racist "Yellow Peril" campaigns of past and present history.

Whether we are talking about The Chinese Exclusion Acts and other racist history, actions, segregation, discrimination and legislative history directed SPECIFICALLY against Chinese immigrants and citizens, the history of this nonsense goes back more than 150 years, far too long to just keep ignoring it.

I would suggest, writing up your report, include her admission and interaction with your fellow employees and their reactions, and submitting it to Human Resources and Management the night before your last day, or the start of the morning of your last day. You will be moving on, leaving the environment, and at the very least, not having to work with her beyond that day.

 

[greatnt249]

It wasn't a very funny joke even if that was the intent; in my experience, when people say they were "joking" after something like this, it's really a subtle attempt at deflecting blame back to you ("you just don't have a sense of humor") instead of confronting the hard reality that they put their own foot in their mouth.

That being said, I think your best shot at having someone take your complaint seriously is to address it as close to when the incident occurred as possible while it is still fresh in everyone's minds. I can understand why you would want to wait to avoid the potential awkward interaction at work after reporting by waiting until end of rotation, but the longer you wait, the more potential it has to fizzle out into a "he said, she said" situation and no one walks away better from the situation.

 

[operaman]

Sorry this happened OP - not an easy situation to be in.

My thought would be to discuss it with your course director at your school and get their thoughts. It would also serve as another form of documentation later. You might be surprised what sort of options can become available when your institution gets behind you. You don’t even have to name the person at first until you see what your school can do for you. Generally speaking, reporting anything is best done sooner than later while there’s still time to fix things.

I’d be careful making too many waves on your own at the site itself. You’re definitely the outsider and all these people work together every day. Who knows what sort of relationships exist between this tech and everyone else. Also remember that HR is not there to protect you; they’re there to protect the hospital. If they fire or reprimand the tech or make the whole unit do mandatory diversity training, it’s done to protect the hospital, not you. Your school has an interest in protecting you which is another reason to start there.

So yes, definitely something that needs to be reported, but some so in a way that preserves your educational experience. Start by having a sit down with your own institutional people.

 

[iwanttobelieve]

I ended up talking about it to one of the clerkship people at my school and she is going to talk with the clinical manager at the hospital about it. Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Hey guys, so I'm looking for some advice about a recent incident. So I'm a Chinese American student (important for story) who is currently on a rotation in a rural area, and we have to spend some time in the ER on call. I was introduced to this (white) lab tech who was also working that night, and she asked me what nationality I was, and when I said I was Chinese, she said (actual quote) "Oh I hate you, my mom has COVID". Quite frankly, I was extremely shocked by her comment and had no idea how to react. I think she realized that she had messed up and she immediately started saying she did not mean it and she did not know why she said it, but then when I came back into the ER a little while later she said sort of haha-jokingly-we're all in this together-kind of way that she had told the nurses and on-call provider in the ER what she had said to me, and they were "appalled", except everyone around us just sort of looked slightly awkward. I guess my question is I'm not sure if I should mention something like this to my school or just let it go? Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, I'm just upset right now and not sure if I'm overreacting or not.

Merc her racist a$$ OP.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I probably wouldn’t. Sounds like they are more of an idiot than a true racist. You have to understand a lot of these techs are just high school grads. You’re like 100x smarter than them if not more. If anything I’d pull them aside and tell them they shouldn’t make comments like that. Do what you want but know that EDs are a nest for gossip so whatever you do, consider it known.

A lab tech should have at least an associates degree. Depending on size complexity of lab most would have a bachelors. A phlebotomist working in a lab could be just high school. Some people are just clueless jerks regardless of level of education.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

"Ethnocentrism is the process of judging another culture exclusively from the perspective of one's own. Ethnocentric people compare their culture to others on such elements as religion, behavior, language, customs, and norms. The term is frequently heard in situations where inter-ethnic relations and ethnic issues are of concern. Ethnocentrism can either be overt or subtle, and although it is regarded as a natural reaction, it has a negative connotation."

Something I learned about rural people when I moved to a small town in my teens is that they find racial jokes be hilarious. I don't understand why but they just do. I suppose you could say its almost like a redneck/blue collar/larry the cable guy type humor. I'm sure the behavior you witnessed is pretty common there they just forgot you were in the room/ aren't one of them. Wouldn't take it personally, but you clearly did. Maybe try calling CNN next time if you want someone to care. Doubt anything comes of it.

 

[0ncogene]

Sorry you had to experience this.

I am doing my residency at a more rural location, and I agree that people from rural communities are more likely to be racist. But I've never experienced this level of gross racism. I would also report the person and if I don't hear from the clinical manager or admit about what was done, I would follow up on it when my rotation is over. I had to take complete multiple modules online about racism, sexism, and implicit bias every year of residency, I think the lab tech may benefit from them.

 

[0ncogene]

Yeah I am serious. It sounded like it was a joke.

And it is sad we live in an era where people can't even make a slightly off color joke without having HR get involved. Actual blatant racism is one thing, but this was clearly meant in a humorous way. It is surprising to me that no one posting on this thread sees that.

It is sad people can't make a joke without making a reference to another person's skin color or ethnicity. It is more sad that there are people like you who feel that this acceptable. At least the lab tech realized it was inappropriate after it was said.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

It is sad people can't make a joke without making a reference to another person's skin color or ethnicity. It is more sad that there are people like you who feel that this acceptable. At least the lab tech realized it was inappropriate after it was said.

Sorry you had to experience this.

I am doing my residency at a more rural location, and I agree that people from rural communities are more likely to be racist. But I've never experienced this level of gross racism. I would also report the person and if I don't hear from the clinical manager or admit about what was done, I would follow up on it when my rotation is over. I had to take complete multiple modules online about racism, sexism, and implicit bias every year of residency, I think the lab tech may benefit from them.

It's sad that people can't make a reference or joke about another person's skin color or ethnicity without someone, usually an irrelevant white SJW with an overinflated ego, being offended. Also If I lived my life using HR mods as a moral code I'd probably be offended by everything I hear and see. We need to start removing those from the workplace.

 

[Lawpy]

It's sad that people can't make a reference or joke about another person's skin color or ethnicity without someone, usually an irrelevant white SJW with an overinflated ego, being offended. Also If I lived my life using HR mods as a moral code I'd probably be offended by everything I hear and see. We need to start removing those from the workplace.

Is it so hard to avoid making racist jokes? Especially when talking to a stranger?

 

[FunkyFrog994]

Is it so hard to avoid making racist jokes? Especially when talking to a stranger?

No, but at the end of the day if you want to live in an environment where you have total control you should go home lock the door and never come out. In public spaces and even at work people should be free to express themselves however they want as long as they get their work done. If they want to make jokes about race or take a knee during the national anthem that's fine with me. The biggest problem in society are people who feel the need to be offended constantly. If you have an issues have a spine and say something, but to run to HR like a 5 yr old tattle tale is pathetic. Honestly I think we should save the money and eliminate HR altogether they're an entirely useless department.

 

[Lawpy]

No, but at the end of the day if you want to live in an environment where you have total control you should go home lock the door and never come out. In public spaces and even at work people should be free to express themselves however they want as long they get their work done. If they want to make racist jokes or take a knee during the national anthem that's fine with me. The biggest problem in society are people who feel the need to be offended constantly. If you have an issues have a spine and say something, but to run to HR like a 5 yr old tattle tale is pathetic. Honestly I think we should save the money and eliminate HR altogether they're an entirely useless department.

Yeah no, let's not keep normalizing racism and bigotry in any public setting. Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

 

[Ganon]

My advice will out me to my classmates reading this, as I give this statement a lot:

1: This is awful and you should report the tech.
2: Please do so in a way that won't inhibit your life in any way

I say #2 because I have experience being a whistleblower who completely got the shaft by speaking up, and I learned to be very shrewd not only in choosing when to speak up, but in the timing and liability of HOW you speak up. I went through the proper channels and did everything right.

Turns out, a lot of those channels are set up to protect organizations, NOT individuals. The last thing I'd want from someone who had to deal with this crap is for it to also have a further negative impact on them

 

[FunkyFrog994]

Yeah no, let's not keep normalizing racism and bigotry in any public setting. Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Is Dave Chapelle a racist and a bigot? A lot of his humor focuses on race and while the lab tech's joke wasn't funny it's very much in the same style as what Dave did on his show.

 

[Lawpy]

Is Dave Chapelle a racist?

... the tech would make a terrible comedian

 

[Lawpy]

Is Dave Chapelle a racist and a bigot? A lot of his humor focuses on race and while the lab techs joke wasn't funny it's very much in the same style as what Dave did on his show.

Lets not kid ourselves here. The tech is working in a professional healthcare environment, not making satirical jokes and social commentary. I listen to work gossip too and even then people are mindful on what they say and not making dumb racist jokes. You can rant or joke around without being a racist. It's not hard.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

... the tech would make a terrible comedian

If you're unwilling to call Dave Chapelle a racist for doing the exact same thing you're calling the tech a racist for... then you're actually the bigot... the tech is just a trash comedian. clown

 

[deleted889094]

Lets not kid ourselves here. The tech is working in a professional healthcare environment, not making satirical jokes and social commentary. I listen to work gossip too and even then people are mindful on what they say and not making dumb racist jokes. You can rant or joke around without being a racist. It's not hard.

I think it does stand that people can make whatever jokes they want, but workplaces are allowed to say what's not appropriate.

I don't buy that making a joke about race makes anybody racist. It can be an indicator of racism, but this case sounds more like someone trying to be funny and failing to read the social dynamic.

 

[Lawpy]

If you're unwilling to call Dave Chapelle a racist for doing the exact same thing you're calling the tech a racist for... then you're actually the bigot... the tech is just a trash comedian. clown

Lmao way to miss the context just to go off ranting about SJWs and why people should be forced to tolerate racist jokes. I seriously think you're trolling here as much as i want to give you a benefit of doubt.

Stand up comedy with racial jokes and references isn't anywhere close to making a racist joke to a stranger in a hospital setting. Are you for real?

 

[Lawpy]

I think it does stand that people can make whatever jokes they want, but workplaces are allowed to say what's not appropriate.

I don't buy that making a joke about race makes anybody racist. It can be an indicator of racism, but this case sounds more like someone trying to be funny and failing to read the social dynamic.

The joke was playing to a common and widespread racial stereotype against Asian Americans ever since the pandemic started. There's no place for that nonsense in a hospital setting especially when talking to a stranger.

 

[deleted889094]

The joke was playing to a common and widespread racial stereotype against Asian Americans ever since the pandemic started. There's no place for that nonsense in a hospital setting especially when talking to a stranger.

Yeah, we're agreed on that. I'm just saying that making a joke like that doesn't inherently make someone racist. It could be a symptom of being racist, but it's not automatically a sign.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah, we're agreed on that. I'm just saying that making a joke like that doesn't inherently make someone racist. It could be a symptom of being racist, but it's not automatically a sign.

It can be telling. Or they're completely socially inept. Yeah it involves a pattern of behavior but fact of the matter is they made a racist joke that was uncalled for and they should face the consequences. So OP should report her

 

[deleted889094]

It can be telling. Or they're completely socially inept. Yeah it involves a pattern of behavior but fact of the matter is they made a racist joke that was uncalled for and they should face the consequences. So OP should report her

We are pretty much all agreed it was uncalled for and should be reported. We also agree it can be telling. But this situation seems like the tech is very socially inept, not racist. Racists are a lot harder to reform than someone who has bad people skills. Labelling this girl a racist after one joke makes it a lot harder to see if it's true and actually help her be better. Certainly we should want to help all people get along with others better and not needlessly offend anyone.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

Lmao way to miss the context just to go off ranting about SJWs and why people should be forced to tolerate racist jokes. I seriously think you're trolling here as much as i want to give you a benefit of doubt.

Stand up comedy with racial jokes and references isn't anywhere close to making a racist joke to a stranger in a hospital setting. Are you for real?

Nah, if anything the guy with 52,000 comments is trolling. Much of Dave Chapelle's humor played on common and widespread stereotypes in America. Either you Condemn it everywhere and every time or don't at all. Selectively choosing to condemn it would make you not only a bigot but also a racist... So I'll ask you again is Dave Chapelle a racist?

 

[deleted889094]

Nah, if anything the guy with 52,000 comments is trolling. Much of Dave Chapelle's humor played on common and widespread stereotypes in America. Either you Condemn it everywhere and every time or don't at all. Selectively choosing to condemn it would make you not only a bigot but also a racist... So I'll ask you again is Dave Chapelle a racist?

I agree with you in the public sphere, but workplaces regulate the way employees interact and have the right to. Also they should if they want things to work well.

 

[0ncogene]

If you're unwilling to call Dave Chapelle a racist for doing the exact same thing you're calling the tech a racist for... then you're actually the bigot... the tech is just a trash comedian. clown

You got to be kidding me. You're comparing person working in a professional setting to Chapelle on comedy central.

Hate to break it to you, but saying inappropriate jokes you heard on the Chapelle's show at the hospital will get you in trouble. Keep it up and you won't get far.

 

[Lawpy]

Nah, if anything the guy with 52,000 comments is trolling. Much of Dave Chapelle's humor played on common and widespread stereotypes in America. Either you Condemn it everywhere and every time or don't at all. Selectively choosing to condemn it would make you not only a bigot but also a racist... So I'll ask you again is Dave Chapelle a racist?

Dude you're making a false analogy to defend the tech and purposely ignoring the context to go on an SJW bashing tirade

 

[Lawpy]

I agree with you in the public sphere, but workplaces regulate the way employees interact and have the right to. Also they should if they want things to work well.

Nah man, remember freedom of speech means not facing any consequences because the tech is trying to sign up to be a stand up comedian for Comedy Central

 

[deleted889094]

Nah man, remember freedom of speech means not facing any consequences because the tech is trying to sign up to be a stand up comedian for Comedy Central

That guy aside, if you had to guess, gun to your head, do you think the tech was likely racist or socially inept?

 

[FunkyFrog994]

I agree with you in the public sphere, but workplaces regulate the way employees interact and have the right to. Also they should if they want things to work well.

I agree as a physician I would never make a joke like that in a work setting, but I won't hold a lab tech, janitor or anyone else to those standards. The only way I would take issue with anything they say is if it was said to a pt or one of their family members. If medicine is as team based as I keep hearing then physicians are going to have to be able to deal with people they don't like or find repulsive without running to HR over a crappy joke.

 

[0ncogene]

That guy aside, if you had to guess, gun to your head, do you think the tech was likely racist or socially inept?

I would have to guess the tech was more likely ignorant than racist. But comment was still not acceptable and should be reported.

Residents and attendings have been reported for much less.

 

[deleted889094]

I would have to guess the tech was more likely ignorant than racist. But comment was still not acceptable and should be reported.

Residents and attendings have been reported for much less.

We are agreed it is inappropriate and should be reported.

 

[deleted889094]

I agree as a physician I would never make a joke like that in a work setting, but I won't hold a lab tech, janitor or anyone else to those standards. The only way I would take issue with anything they say is if it was said to a pt or one of their family members. If medicine is as team based as I keep hearing then physicians are going to have to be able to deal with people they don't like or find repulsive without running to HR over a crappy joke.

Not how jobs work though. Businesses have to regulate teams. They are allowed to set a level of interaction as professional standards.

 

[0ncogene]

Yup agree. That's not how the hospital work. People may have different responsibilities but everyone is held to the same standard, even the janitor.

 

[Lawpy]

That guy aside, if you had to guess, gun to your head, do you think the tech was likely racist or socially inept?

 

[Lawpy]

That guy aside, if you had to guess, gun to your head, do you think the tech was likely racist or socially inept?

No but for real, i think the tech's a racist. They can be socially inept too but i don't see why it must be one or the other. Telling a racist joke to a complete stranger is a clear and condemning sign that the tech has racist views whether consciously or subconsciously.

 

[Lawpy]

I would have to guess the tech was more likely ignorant than racist. But comment was still not acceptable and should be reported.

Residents and attendings have been reported for much less.

The tech can be subconsciously racist and slipped out the joke

 

[deleted889094]

No but for real, i think the tech's a racist. They can be socially inept too but i don't see why it must be one or the other. Telling a racist joke to a complete stranger is a clear and condemning sign that the tech has racist views whether consciously or subconsciously.

I think you're off on that. I think it's more a sign they are socially inept. Hence telling a joke with a potentially sensitive topic to someone you don't know.

But if we've both decided, no point in derailing the thread further.

 

[Lawpy]

I think you're off on that. I think it's more a sign they are socially inept. Hence telling a joke with a potentially sensitive topic to someone you don't know.

But if we've both decided, no point in derailing the thread further.

They have a racist tendency if they even thought of saying something like that. Nonracists don't blindly tell racist jokes. It's not mutually exclusive

 

[FunkyFrog994]

Not how jobs work though. Businesses have to regulate teams. They are allowed to set a level of interaction as professional standards.

Yup agree. That's not how the hospital work. People may have different responsibilities but everyone is held to the same standard, even the janitor.

Based on what the rules are today both of you are right, however what I've noticed about America is that we've become a society obsessed with decorum and filtering everything. I believe that not only is this idiotic, but it prevents people from maximizing their potential. The only pressure I want on my employees is my expectation that they are nothing less than perfect. I could care less about how they look, smell, talk etc. Clearly the system in place in America is a dumpster fire that needs to be burned down and rebuilt. We're the kings of throwing boat loads of money at problems and getting mediocre results. The first big change I want to make is getting rid of all this fake politeness.

 

[Lawpy]

Also whether the tech is racist is a matter of semantics. They told a racist joke and face the consequences. OP should report the tech as has been said endless times

 

[Lawpy]

Based on what the rules are today both of you are right, however what I've noticed about America is that we've become a society obsessed with decorum and filtering everything. I believe that not only is this idiotic, but it prevents people from maximizing their potential. The only pressure I want on my employees is my expectation that they are nothing less than perfect. I could care less about how they look, smell, talk etc. Clearly the system in place in America is a dumpster fire that needs to be burned down and rebuilt. We're the kings of throwing boat loads of money at problems and getting mediocre results. The first big change I want to make is getting rid of all this fake politeness.

This has nothing to with fake politeness and everything to do with normalizing racism. US society is currently deeply racist and i'm all for overhauling society to make it far less racist and bigoted.

 

[deleted889094]

They have a racist tendency if they even thought of saying something like that. Nonracists don't blindly tell racist jokes. It's not mutually exclusive

A nonracist could blindly tell a joke like that lol

You're oversimplifying

 

[Lawpy]

A nonracist could blindly tell a joke like that lol

You're oversimplifying

No they wouldn't but clearly we have different views what racists are and are discussing semantics that have little to do with the main point.

 

[deleted889094]

Mods are probably gonna close. I'm out.

 

[Lawpy]

This thread in a nutshell:

OP: *reports that a tech told her a racist joke that hurt her and asks what to do*

Many SDNers including me: *repeatedly urges OP to report since it's racist*

Anti-SJWers: *rants about free speech, SJWs bad, everyone has the right to be racist and face absolutely no consequences, if tech bad, stand up comedians bad.*

Few SDNers: *agrees tech should be reported but discusses extensively on semantics of whether tech is racist vs socially inept, assuming both are mutually exclusive*

*thread continues endlessly in derail land with some flame wars on side until mods get tired and lock the thread*

Rinse and repeat for nearly all threads regarding discrimination and bigotry.

 

[Goro]

No, but at the end of the day if you want to live in an environment where you have total control you should go home lock the door and never come out. In public spaces and even at work people should be free to express themselves however they want as long as they get their work done. If they want to make racist jokes or take a knee during the national anthem that's fine with me. The biggest problem in society are people who feel the need to be offended constantly. If you have an issues have a spine and say something, but to run to HR like a 5 yr old tattle tale is pathetic. Honestly I think we should save the money and eliminate HR altogether they're an entirely useless department.

In public work spaces, making racist comments are part of contributing to a hostile work environment. This is illegal, and can get people sued and/or fired.

I have feeling that you're trolling, but if not, perhaps a few medical ethics refresher lectures might be in order.

Is Dave Chapelle a racist and a bigot? A lot of his humor focuses on race and while the lab techs joke wasn't funny it's very much in the same style as what Dave did on his show.

Gotta love the combo of false equivalence AND whataboutism

 

[FunkyFrog994]

In public work spaces, making racist comments are part of contributing to a hostile work environment. This is illegal, and can get people sued and/or fired.

I have feeling that you're trolling, but if not, perhaps a few medical ethics refresher lectures might be in order.