Rad Onc competitive DO schools?

[Skeeks]

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Hey guys I wasn't able to find out much through the search about what DO schools would give me the best shot at a radiation oncology residency. Does anyone have any knowledge on this?

 

[DopaDO]

As someone who is very interested in rad onc, the school itself won't make much of a difference, what matters is you. Rock boards (240 minimum) and get some pubs. Despite what people say here, many PDs will consider DOs especially since there aren't any AOA rad onc residencies.

 

[Skeeks]

As someone who is very interested in rad onc, the school itself won't make much of a difference, what matters is you. Rock boards (240 minimum) and get some pubs. Despite what people say here, many PDs will consider DOs especially since there aren't any AOA rad onc residencies.

Thanks dopa, where did you end up? If you dont mind me asking

 

[Mehd School]

I wish you luck, man. Obviously Rad Onc is tough for anyone. I don't think the school you go to is going to do you any favors unless the school itself has a Rad Onc residency, which obviously no DO schools do.

I'm curious though, why do you feel so strongly about rad onc? I rarely hear people interested in it before they get to med school. Just wondering.

 

[SLC]

I'm curious though, why do you feel so strongly about rad onc? I rarely hear people interested in it before they get to med school. Just wondering.

The ability to see results from your treatment, cool tech to work with, very intellectually stimulating, awesome lifestyle, incredible pay (usually), and among the very highest in physician job satisfaction surveys.

That's what I knew before medical school, I now want nothing to do with it though.

 

[NontradCA]

The ability to see results from your treatment, cool tech to work with, very intellectually stimulating, awesome lifestyle, incredible pay (usually), and among the very highest in physician job satisfaction surveys.

That's what I knew before medical school, I now want nothing to do with it though.

Why? What's changed since you've come more acquainted with medicine? What interests you now?

 

[Kithani]

Why? What's changed since you've come more acquainted with medicine? What interests you now?

I'm curious of this as well.

 

[Skeeks]

I wish you luck, man. Obviously Rad Onc is tough for anyone. I don't think the school you go to is going to do you any favors unless the school itself has a Rad Onc residency, which obviously no DO schools do.

I'm curious though, why do you feel so strongly about rad onc? I rarely hear people interested in it before they get to med school. Just wondering.

I am not sure this was directed at me, but I'll put in my opinion anyway.

I agree with everything SLC said, but I would also add that I know I will need to have close interaction with my patients to feel satisfaction. I know I will most likely go into some form of oncology, rad oncology just seems to fit best for me. I enjoy the feeling of knowing very select knowledge. I know I am comfortable with chronically ill patients, in fact I thrive quite well in that type of clinical setting. I want the opportunity to throw my intellect against one of the most debilitating and difficult problems in healthcare. Go big or go home ya know?

 

[gmcguitar4]

I actually have the same goal as you OP. Oncology is my goal because cancer sucks and it has affected my life(not me actually but family) and I have a very strong desire to work in the field as a result. I have seen what it can do to patients and their families and nobody should have to go through it.

 

[MDforMee]

I went to a talk tonight given by the director of the radiation-oncology residency program for UCLA Ronald Reagan Hospital/SOM, and I've got good news and bad news.

After hearing him tell us that we should apply broadly and to every MD school in the USA that exists for about an hour, he made no mention of DO schools. I thought it was a little strange that he didn't mention any DO school, after saying that we should go to Howard, Meharry, NYMC and other bottom of the barrel MD schools if that's the only place we got in.

So, I stayed afterwards, and asked him about going DO and then trying to match into Radiation-Oncology. He said that the problem is that the public doesn't think that DOs are on par with MDs, and that I should try to get into an MD school. He said that DOs get good educations, and that people in medicine don't think it's a subpar degree, but he was obviously skirting the issue. You guys are smart enough to catch the drift, I think.

There is no good news. I only said that I had good news to cushion the blow.

 

[NontradCA]

I went to a talk tonight given by the director of the radiation-oncology residency program for UCLA Ronald Reagan Hospital/SOM, and I've got good news and bad news.

After hearing him tell us that we should apply broadly and to every MD school in the USA that exists for about an hour, he made no mention of DO schools. I thought it was a little strange that he didn't mention any DO school, after saying that we should go to Howard, Meharry, NYMC and other bottom of the barrel MD schools if that's the only place we got in.

So, I stayed afterwards, and asked him about going DO and then trying to match into Radiation-Oncology. He said that the problem is that the public doesn't think that DOs are on par with MDs, and that I should try to get into an MD school. He said that DOs get good educations, and that people in medicine don't think it's a subpar degree, but he was obviously skirting the issue. You guys are smart enough to catch the drift, I think.

There is no good news. I only said that I had good news to cushion the blow.

🙄 It would make sense that MD faculty at MD schools don't advocate for students going into DO schools. It would be better if you asked him directly about radiation oncology and if he'd ever consider a DO applicant.

 

[MDforMee]

🙄 It would make sense that MD faculty at MD schools don't advocate for students going into DO schools. It would be better if you asked him directly about radiation oncology and if he'd ever consider a DO applicant.

Yes indeed. But, the presentation he gave wasn't on residency admissions. It was on general medical school admissions.

My post may have been a little confusing.

 

[NontradCA]

Yes indeed. But, the presentation he gave wasn't on residency admissions. It was on general medical school admissions.

At an MD institution. Like I said, it makes sense that he would not be promoting DO schools. The anecdote is irrelevant.

Btw. Inb4 MD v. DO

 

[Textbookversion]

If you want to do rad onc, do what it takes to get into an MD school. Whether that takes doing a postbac, SMP, retaking the MCAT, whatever it takes.

Only 1-2 DO students MAX get in to rad onc each year. Some years it is ZERO. And those that get in are incredibly impressive and could have gotten into an MD school.

 

[Textbookversion]

At an MD institution. Like I said, it makes sense that he would not be promoting DO schools.

No, he was being realistic. Being a DO even from a school that is better, more established, and has higher stats than a number of MD schools still would put you at a disadvantage. The letters matter. They shouldn't, but they do.

 

[NontradCA]

No, he was being realistic. Being a DO even from a school that is better, more established, and has higher stats than a number of MD schools still would put you at a disadvantage. The letters matter. They shouldn't, but they do.

Would make sense if he asked the guy specifically about matching Rad Onc.

 

[loveoforganic2]

If you want to do rad onc, do what it takes to get into an MD school. Whether that takes doing a postbac, SMP, retaking the MCAT, whatever it takes.

Only 1-2 DO students MAX get in to rad onc each year. Some years it is ZERO. And those that get in are incredibly impressive and could have gotten into an MD school.

Beyond this, if you KNOW you want to do radonc (not getting into the likelihood of actually knowing your specialty interest pre-clinical years), you should strive to get into the highest ranked allopathic school you can with a strong radonc department. If you're positively gunning for any of the ultra competitive fields, you should really not pull any punches

 

[NontradCA]

Beyond this, if you KNOW you want to do radonc (not getting into the likelihood of actually knowing your specialty interest pre-clinical years), you should strive to get into the highest ranked allopathic school you can with a strong radonc department. If you're positively gunning for any of the ultra competitive fields, you should really not pull any punches

This.

 

[MDforMee]

At an MD institution. Like I said, it makes sense that he would not be promoting DO schools. The anecdote is irrelevant.

Btw. Inb4 MD v. DO

There's a difference between being at an md institution and not promoting do schools. I'm not telling you what to think, here, but the writing is on the wall for the op.

 

[cliquesh]

I did a few weeks of rad onc after I applied for residency. It was amazing. If I knew about it earlier on I might have tried to do it instead of anesthesia.

If you look at the nrmp data, only a handful of DOs have matched rad/onc over the last decade. However, if you look at the nrmp PD survey, the majority of rad/onc program directors will consider DO applications. So I don't know if the lack of DOs in rad/onc is due to discrimination or lack of interest/not high enough board scores and research.

I agree that attending a USMD school would be a better option for rad/onc.

 

[DopaDO]

I did a few weeks of rad onc after I applied for residency. It was amazing. If I knew about it earlier on I might have tried to do it instead of anesthesia.

If you look at the nrmp data, only a handful of DOs have matched rad/onc over the last decade. However, if you look at the nrmp PD survey, the majority of rad/onc program directors will consider DO applications. So I don't know if the lack of DOs in rad/onc is due to discrimination or lack of interest/not high enough board scores and research.

I agree that attending a USMD school would be a better option for rad/onc.

While I agree with this, it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Rad onc is super competitive MD or DO. I have been told by several current DO residents in Rad Onc that there really isn't much discrimination from PDs because of the lack of DO Rad Onc residencies. Also, one of the gods of rad onc is a DO and that helps too. If you bust your butt - I'm talking at least 240 boards, several pubs etc - you stand just as good of a chance of matching as anyone.

 

[Mehd School]

While I agree with this, it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Rad onc is super competitive MD or DO. I have been told by several current DO residents in Rad Onc that there really isn't much discrimination from PDs because of the lack of DO Rad Onc residencies. Also, one of the gods of rad onc is a DO and that helps too. If you bust your butt - I'm talking at least 240 boards, several pubs etc - you stand just as good of a chance of matching as anyone.

Interesting perspective. I would have never thought MD PD's would give a damn about an AOA residency being offered or not. Thanks.

 

[SLC]

Why? What's changed since you've come more acquainted with medicine? What interests you now?

A few things have changed,

First, I looked into some of the pubs coming from the RadOnc field, there's way more Physics involved, even for physicians, than I realized and would be comfortable with. I sorta always thought that the Medical Physicist did most of that stuff, but it seems that may not be the case completely. Physics almost kept me out of medical school, I don't enjoy it at all.

Second, through the first two years of Medical School, I've realized that I'm very medicine oriented, and moderately surgery averse. It's not that I don't feel comfortable with Surgery, just that I personally find it fairly boring. Also, I like and need long term relationships with my patients. I don't think I'd like basically never seeing my patients again after their treatments were completed. There are plenty of fields that are medicine oriented, and have longer term or even lifelong contact with patients, and I'm interested in a number of them.

I like problem solving, especially when it involves interpreting lab data and physical findings to get to the heart of an issue. Given that, and the ability to maintain a longer relationship with patients, I think that in the realm of Cancer treatment, I'd be much happier in HemeOnc than in RadOnc.

Third, I learned a little bit more about Radiation treatment that made me realize that I don't really want to be involved in that. I fully recognize that in some cases it's the best option we have. But it can be disfiguring, and it can be fraught with longterm complications. I didn't realize that non-healing ulcers can present even years after radiation treatment is finished. And that these lesions can't be excised because the excisions often won't heal. It can be a godsend, but it can also be a curse. It's something that I didn't realize and don't think I want to be involved with anymore.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Having worked with a lot of rad-onc docs, I always find it surprising that there are a lot of people out there that consider this field without being good at physics. Rad onc is all about medical dosimetry and calculating doses and have a ton of medical physics built in. And, at all places I work, rad onc physicians double check work of medical physicists and are trained to do so (I've seen them sit and work out physics problems).

Not surprisingly, this is a popular field for people that went to tech oriented schools that become doctors (the last two rad-onc docs I worked with... one went to MIT undergrad and the other CalTech... they both majored in physics). Also, both went to MD schools... the same pretty well known one in Boston, MA (but I was at an affiliated hospital).

If you don't love physics (and some of us don't, myself included), you won't like rad-onc. I didn't even enjoy watching the rad-onc doc do the complex physics calculations when shadowing and had little desire to try and do the calculations myself (though, the docs were very excited to explain all the physics to me).

If this is your desired field go MD and score high on the USMLE.

A few things have changed,

First, I looked into some of the pubs coming from the RadOnc field, there's way more Physics involved, even for physicians, than I realized and would be comfortable with. I sorta always thought that the Medical Physicist did most of that stuff, but it seems that may not be the case completely. Physics almost kept me out of medical school, I don't enjoy it at all.

 

[K31]

Going back over the past 5 years of match results, there have been 8 DO applicants in that time who matched RadOnc.

As much as many on this board like to deny it, being a DO does put you at a disadvantage for competitive specialties, and RadOnc is one of the most competitive out there. The lowest-ranked MD schools will put you in a better spot for RadOnc than the best DO school. Not saying it's right, just that it's the way it is.

If you absolutely can't get into a MD school, you're going to have to work even harder to stand out. I'm talking taking a year off to do research in a well-regarded RadOnc lab. Of course rocking the boards goes without saying, but 240 isn't going to cut it--think more like 260. 240 is average for a RadOnc applicant, and you can't afford to be average.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Going back over the past 5 years of match results, there have been 8 DO applicants in that time who matched RadOnc.

As much as many on this board like to deny it, being a DO does put you at a disadvantage for competitive specialties, and RadOnc is one of the most competitive out there. The lowest-ranked MD schools will put you in a better spot for RadOnc than the best DO school. Not saying it's right, just that it's the way it is.

If you absolutely can't get into a MD school, you're going to have to work even harder to stand out. I'm talking taking a year off to do research in a well-regarded RadOnc lab. Of course rocking the boards goes without saying, but 240 isn't going to cut it--think more like 260. 240 is average for a RadOnc applicant, and you can't afford to be average.

Agreed. 1 of those 8 graduated from Nova and they apparently matched RadOnc at Walter Reed. That's the only Nova student that has matched RadOnc since the 2006 match, according to the records I have.

 

[MDforMee]

You know, yesterday at Dr. Lee's (the residency director of the rad-onc program) talk, I noted a few things.

1. Dr. Lee did a masters in medical physics before going into rad-onc
2. Dr. Lee said that the masters helped him a lot in matching
3. Dr. Lee also did his undergrad in physics
4. Dr. Lee did his MD at Ohio State
5. Dr. Lee said that it's not the prestige of the MD school that matters as much as your grades, step scores, research, etc while there. In fact, here's one of his funny "Chinese Quotes":
"It's better to be the head of a chicken than the tail of a cow" which literally translates to it's better to look good on paper at a smaller school than go to Harvard med and be average or below average.
6. If you haven't gathered, by now, forget about going DO for rad-onc. That's a pipedream, and your interests will be better served by devoting your time to non rad-onc ECs if you're a med student at a DO school.

Also, I went to this talk by Dr. Lee because I'm trying to get feedback on a masters I'll be doing in biomed imaging at UCSF, but since I can possibly defer a chemistry/biochemistry masters at UCSD that I was accepted to, as well, I'm curious about which might serve me in the long run in terms of residency matching, practice, etc. In a nutshell, I can do the UCSF masters over two years with lots of research and a thesis, or the UCSF masters in one year without a thesis and little research AND doing a masters at UCSD in biochem the next year. Dr. Lee said to do what I'm passionate about, and that it won't matter much. Either choice will help me in any regard.

If you haven't put two and two together, and the point of why I'm writing this to all of you now, is that I'm anticipating becoming a DO, but see that I'll (we'll) be facing residency match problems in the foreseeable future. I'd suggest to any of you reading this that if you're like me, and probably going DO, but not wanting Family Medicine or something non-competitive, then do yourself a favor and start figuring out how to help yourself sooner, rather than later, even if it means doing a masters and spending some cash. PM me if you want to know my masters list. Especially if you're a California resident. I've more or less deciphered how to either increase your board scores by doing a masters, or getting experience to help you land a residency if you go DO by doing a masters.

 

[group_theory]

RadOnc is an extremely difficult specialty to match into, even as an MD student.

From the 2011 NRMP numbers, the average USMLE Step 1 score for a US MD student who matched into rad-onc was 240 (independent applicants, which FMGs and DOs will fall under, mean USMLE was 241). Mean USMLE Step 2 score was 242. 22% of US MDs who matched radonc have PhDs (and another 8% have graduate degrees). 45% of matched US MD students came from a Top 40 NIH funded medical school.

The mean number of abstracts, presentations, and publications that a successful US MD student had was 8.3 (unmatched was 6.6), and for independent applicants, it was 9.6.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf


Realistically, as a DO student, while not impossible, it is extremely difficult (and uphill battle) to get into a radonc residency. There are fewer mentors who are osteopathic radiation oncologists, and none of the DO schools are large NIH-heavy research institutions (not even *MSU/OSU). If you attend a DO school near a major city with lots of research facilities (Philadelphia, New York, Chicago, Lansing, Southern California), you can do research at those institutions (while attending medical school). If your school is located in a rural location, it may be harder to do research related to radiation-oncology (or even find radiation oncologist mentors, MD or DO)

There are DOs out there who are radonc residents and practicing radiation oncologists so it's possible - but it is an uphill battle.

One of the most respected radiation-oncologist (that was briefly referenced in an above post) is Paul Wallner, DO, FASTRO, a PCOM graduate (1968), and a recipient of ASTRO's Gold Medal, the highest honor that can be bestowed on its members. He is a former Chief of Clinical Radiation Oncology Branch, Radiation Research Program at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, MD. He is a former chairman of radiation oncology at Cooper University Hospital/Robert Wood Johnson, and former Vice Chair of Radiation Oncology at the University of Pennsylvania.




*Michigan State University received $49.5 million in NIH funding in fiscal year 2012
*University of Michigan received $468.5 million in NIH funding in fiscal year 2012
*University of Oklahoma received $40.6 million in NIH funding in fiscal year 2012
*Oklahoma State University received $4.5 million in NIH funding in fiscal year 2012

 

[SLC]

...none of the DO schools are large NIH-heavy research institutions (not even *MSU/OSU)...

Just out of curiosity, what is the funding cutoff to be considered "NIH-heavy research institution"?

 

[DopaDO]

Going back over the past 5 years of match results, there have been 8 DO applicants in that time who matched RadOnc.

As much as many on this board like to deny it, being a DO does put you at a disadvantage for competitive specialties, and RadOnc is one of the most competitive out there. The lowest-ranked MD schools will put you in a better spot for RadOnc than the best DO school. Not saying it's right, just that it's the way it is.

If you absolutely can't get into a MD school, you're going to have to work even harder to stand out. I'm talking taking a year off to do research in a well-regarded RadOnc lab. Of course rocking the boards goes without saying, but 240 isn't going to cut it--think more like 260. 240 is average for a RadOnc applicant, and you can't afford to be average.

I def agree that being a DO puts you at a disadvantage, but its not as pronounced as many believe (at least in rad onc). I have talked to several residents who went through the process and told me these things. They said 240 minimum, does having a 260 help? Sure but it sounds like some of them had done it with a 240. Also, keep in mind that many DO students do not apply for rad onc for whatever reason. While I respect your opinion, I value the opinion of people who have gone through the process more. They have actual experience in doing it.

 

[Bacchus]

I def agree that being a DO puts you at a disadvantage, but its not as pronounced as many believe (at least in rad onc). I have talked to several residents who went through the process and told me these things. They said 240 minimum, does having a 260 help? Sure but it sounds like some of them had done it with a 240. Also, keep in mind that many DO students do not apply for rad onc for whatever reason. While I respect your opinion, I value the opinion of people who have gone through the process more. They have actual experience in doing it.

8 people over 5 years. So on average 1.X applicants per year that were a DO. The odds are not in your favor. It would be best to apply to another specialty... or go to an MD school... although that doesn't heighten your chances significantly either.

 

[Mbeas]

One of the most respected radiation-oncologist (that was briefly referenced in an above post) is Paul Wallner, DO, FASTRO, a PCOM graduate (1968), and a recipient of ASTRO's Gold Medal, the highest honor that can be bestowed on its members. He is a former Chief of Clinical Radiation Oncology Branch, Radiation Research Program at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, MD. He is a former chairman of radiation oncology at Cooper University Hospital/Robert Wood Johnson, and former Vice Chair of Radiation Oncology at the University of Pennsylvania.

http://www.21stcenturyoncology.com/physicians/wallner-paul

 

[MDforMee]

http://www.21stcenturyoncology.com/physicians/wallner-paul

That's the first MD I've ever seen granted from an Osteopathic medical school.


"Paul E. Wallner, MD

Education

St. Joseph's University - BS, Biology
Philadelphia, PA
1964
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine - MD
Philadelphia, PA
1968"


Did anyone else catch that? Seriously, that's a huge mistake. Something like that shouldn't go unnoticed by whoever put that profile up.

 

[Mehd School]

http://www.21stcenturyoncology.com/physicians/wallner-paul

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing your point is that he's listed as an MD. This happens all the time. PCOM doesn't hand out MD's to my knowledge.


What doesn't happen all the time is MD's being listed as DO's. I had my first encounter with that last month, as I'm scrambling to find one to shadow. One popped up that we were referring to "John Smith, DO", so I gave him a call.

Med School at UCSF, Residency at Harvard. He asked me if I was pranking him.

 

[K31]

Just out of curiosity, what is the funding cutoff to be considered "NIH-heavy research institution"?

That's very subjective, but I'd use $100 million/year as a cutoff point--that corresponds to about the top 40 medical schools in NIH funding.

This site has more data than you'd ever want to know about NIH funding to medical schools.

 

[james2333]

There isn't one school that will help set you up for a Rad Onc specialty more than any other. I agree with many of the previous posters. It will be much harder as a DO to match into that specialty but not necessarily impossible. I know of one student that was a senior, while I was a freshman who matched and her score was around the Rad Onc average.

I'll tell you where DO's are really at a disadvantage. Its RESEARCH. No DO school has the money, resources and manpower to run the type of research projects that you'll find at allopathic schools (except maybe Michigan). You'll find that at allopathic schools its easy to become part of a project and get published. Most MD's work with PhD candidates who do all the work. The MD's over see the projects and all the IRB approval, logistics etc. is handled by other people. They simply show up and volunteer at the lab and sometimes get published. I've met several people who did nothing but show up to the lab once a week, make sure their "test subjects" were fed or their tissue culture was viable and ended up getting published. I've also met many people who put much more effort into their research projects and design/write their own abstracts. The point is, its diff. to find research as a DO student. Rad Onc and the surgical sub-specialties are interested in Research. If you can find a way to get quality research under your belt and you do well on Step 1, you have a shot.

There is a DO student I met doing rotations in Southern California, I think he's from ATSU-SOMA, and he has several publications. I think he's interested in one of the surgical subspecialties or maybe Rad onc. Anyways the guy took initiative, setup rotations close to an allopathic school and found mentors. Hell the guy even somehow got rotations at Stanford cause he killed his Step 1 and was published with well known guys there. I think he's presenting a poster at a few national meetings also. I'm not saying any DO student can do this, obviously its rare and you need to have the grades/board scores to back you up but atleast you know it can be done. We rotated together at a few sites with students from UCLA, UC Irvine and Loma Linda. We were the only DO students there and we were looked down on by the MD students but the kid blew everyone out of the water and our attending who was in charge told us he was the only one that he's given a perfect evaluation for in the past 5 years. Anyways he's proof that it can be done if you work hard and do whatever you can to find connections. I guarantee he'll match into an allopathic spot in whatever he decides. If you work hard you'll find the opportunities. Its up to you.

 

[user3]

There isn't one school that will help set you up for a Rad Onc specialty more than any other. I agree with many of the previous posters. It will be much harder as a DO to match into that specialty but not necessarily impossible. I know of one student that was a senior, while I was a freshman who matched and her score was around the Rad Onc average.

I'll tell you where DO's are really at a disadvantage. Its RESEARCH. No DO school has the money, resources and manpower to run the type of research projects that you'll find at allopathic schools (except maybe Michigan). You'll find that at allopathic schools its easy to become part of a project and get published. Most MD's work with PhD candidates who do all the work. The MD's over see the projects and all the IRB approval, logistics etc. is handled by other people. They simply show up and volunteer at the lab and sometimes get published. I've met several people who did nothing but show up to the lab once a week, make sure their "test subjects" were fed or their tissue culture was viable and ended up getting published. I've also met many people who put much more effort into their research projects and design/write their own abstracts. The point is, its diff. to find research as a DO student. Rad Onc and the surgical sub-specialties are interested in Research. If you can find a way to get quality research under your belt and you do well on Step 1, you have a shot.

There is a DO student I met doing rotations in Southern California, I think he's from ATSU-SOMA, and he has several publications. I think he's interested in one of the surgical subspecialties or maybe Rad onc. Anyways the guy took initiative, setup rotations close to an allopathic school and found mentors. Hell the guy even somehow got rotations at Stanford cause he killed his Step 1 and was published with well known guys there. I think he's presenting a poster at a few national meetings also. I'm not saying any DO student can do this, obviously its rare and you need to have the grades/board scores to back you up but atleast you know it can be done. We rotated together at a few sites with students from UCLA, UC Irvine and Loma Linda. We were the only DO students there and we were looked down on by the MD students but the kid blew everyone out of the water and our attending who was in charge told us he was the only one that he's given a perfect evaluation for in the past 5 years. Anyways he's proof that it can be done if you work hard and do whatever you can to find connections. I guarantee he'll match into an allopathic spot in whatever he decides. If you work hard you'll find the opportunities. Its up to you.

just plain sad

 

[loveoforganic2]

Anyways he's proof that it can be done if you work hard and do whatever you can to find connections. I guarantee he'll match into an allopathic spot in whatever he decides. If you work hard you'll find the opportunities. Its up to you.

The "it's up to you" philosophy is nice, and it probably is true, but people have different capabilities and random circumstances that come up that may limit their ability to reach those maximum capabilities. The threshold of what you need to do to match radonc is likely going to be higher for an FMG/IMG > DO > MD. The magnitude of the effect is very debatable, but there almost certainly is an effect attached with both type of school and school prestige (even given everything else being equal), and the higher that threshold is, the less likely you are to obtain it.

I'm not saying this from a position of being at HMS - I applied early decision to (and thus committed to attend) my low ranked state MD school. It was cheaper than I'd get anywhere else, I got to be close to my family, and I think the education itself is comparable to what I'd get elsewhere, but I won't have name brand recognition when it comes to submit my ERAS, and that's a cost I was willing to accept. Rad onc is a possible interest of mine, but it's a fair bit lower on the list than IM and a few other specialties. If I was compelled to go into radonc, I would have applied broadly to schools with more name brand recognition (and a school with a radonc department obviously!)

 

[Skeeks]

Thanks guys I really appreciate you advice. I learned a ton by reading all of your posts.

 

[JW08]

2 DOs matched this year. 1 from RVU, not sure where other one is from.



http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...ontent/uploads/2013/08/resultsanddata2013.pdf (page 9)

 

[Skeeks]

I saw the RVU match. They even matched to Baylor 😱.

 

[cliquesh]

I saw the RVU match. They even matched to Baylor 😱.

The program is on probation or something.

 

[NurWollen]

If every person followed #6, then there wouldn't be 1-2 DOs matching.

It's like the lottery. Why bother trying, if chances are you won't get it? Well, there wouldn't be a winner, if every single person followed that advice.

Comparing the chances of DO matching RadOnc to the chances of winning the lottery is not making anyone feel better.

 

[NurWollen]

Well I'm sure, being pre-med/med students, we are smart enough to take home the bigger message I'm sending out as opposed to nitpicking on an imperfect analogy. 🙂

Lol of course. Nice avatar, btw

 

[Anicetus]

If every person followed #6, then there wouldn't be 1-2 DOs matching.

It's like the lottery. Why bother trying, if chances are you won't get it? Well, there wouldn't be a winner, if every single person followed that advice.

Sounds about right for scoring a 260 on the USMLE, which is most likely what those students who matched ACGME rad onc scored. Not many people make a jump from 3.3/26 as a premed to #2 in the class/ 260 USMLE.

 

[cliquesh]

Sounds about right for scoring a 260 on the USMLE, which is most likely what those students who matched ACGME rad onc scored. Not many people make a jump from 3.3/26 as a premed to #2 in the class/ 260 USMLE.

In 2011, the average for rad onc was 240 on step 1, but, yeah, I know of 3 people in my class with a 240+. One matched acgme diagnostic rads, one matched acgme anesthesia, and other matched aoa orthopedics. I'm sure there were a few more, but no more than 10 more.

 

[buccsmf1]

If every person followed #6, then there wouldn't be 1-2 DOs matching.

It's like the lottery. Why bother trying, if chances are you won't get it? Well, there wouldn't be a winner, if every single person followed that advice.

because you put yourself at a massive disadvantage if you don't match...

If youre a DO and you have steps in the 240+ range you have the chance to match in a solid specialty like rads, gas, surgery, etc.... If you decided to go for rad-onc, you have an absolutely miniscule chance to match. and if you don't, all of a sudden youre soaping into some crap specialty.

there are a few things that DOs just need to come to terms with. You wont be matching plastics or rad-onc, aside from a few lottery type scenarios.