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Would love to see the letter, but wondering why Simul is asking for it not to be leaked?
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After all Simul has done, we need to respect his decision and wait for him
 
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w00tz said:
Would love to see the letter, but wondering why Simul is asking for it not to be leaked?
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He is currently hiding the letter somewhere in the Rockies between New Mexico and Montana. He’s also writing a poem with clues that lead the reader on an elaborate search to the letter’s whereabouts.

Nick Cage is playing the letter hunting protagonist in the movie; working title American Board of Redemption. Rest of cast TBD.
 
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w00tz said:
Would love to see the letter, but wondering why Simul is asking for it not to be leaked?
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agreed. To get out stench, you need to open up doors and blinds. Transparency and publically exposing people is the way to go. Keeping things “in house” “no leaks” likely ensures nothing is ever done. I know multiple people with the letters but none will share with me! All will only tell me contents. Someone needs to leak this.
 
This is all a good example for med students to be exposed to. This is the kind of stuff you potentially will be exposed to in Rad onc. People like Paul Wallner can go after you and leadership will not stand up for you publically. Think long and hard before going into Rad onc, actually don’t really spend time thinking about it just don’t do it all
 
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scarbrtj said:
Simul's balls are to bravery what carbon ions are to particle therapy: quite massive compared to everything else.
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The silence of the Twitter sheep to his post is deafening to me. None of the usual virtue signalers have responded to agree with or support Simul on this. It's really sad to see.
 
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Neuronix said:
The silence of the Twitter sheep to his post is deafening to me. None of the usual virtue signalers have responded to agree with or support Simul on this. It's really sad to see.
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I guess, they're worried that they could find themselves on the receiving end of PW's scorn.
 
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Zahramar said:
I guess, they're worried that they could find themselves on the receiving end of PW's scorn.
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For me, I will openly criticize PW after I know exactly what was said. It’s easier to call someone out of line when you have incontrovertible proof they’re out of line.

On ROHUB evidently they’ve been deleting anti ABR sentiments. That should be addressed. But I loathe ROHUB and don’t really want to get on there. But maybe I should....
 
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scarbrtj said:
For me, I will openly criticize PW after I know exactly what was said. It’s easier to call someone out of line when you have incontrovertible proof they’re out of line.

On ROHUB evidently they’ve been deleting anti ABR sentiments. That should be addressed. But I loathe ROHUB and don’t really want to get on there. But maybe I should....
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Think you need an astro membership?
 
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If it’s an actual legal letter sent by a lawyer, I imagine whoever received that letter probably has a lawyer advising them and I imagine the lawyer is advising them to not leak the letter. Having said, I know nothing about law myself nor anything of this letter nor anything of the person/people who received it.

Either way, we are in truly sad times. Maybe we should start a thread (in a different threat) of advice on exiting the speciality should there be people who are genuinely interested in it. Although it breaks my heart to write that. I would rather we all have decent and safe (that is not toxic) jobs that pay actual attending salaries - they don’t even have to be old school rad onc salaries because that won’t be the case for most current and future applicants. But one can’t undo reality rapidly.
 
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hbosch said:
If it’s an actual legal letter sent by a lawyer, I imagine whoever received that letter probably has a lawyer advising them and I imagine the lawyer is advising them to not leak the letter. Having said, I know nothing about law myself nor anything of this letter nor anything of the person/people who received it.

Either way, we are in truly sad times. Maybe we should start a thread (in a different threat) of advice on exiting the speciality should there be people who are genuinely interested in it. Although it breaks my heart to write that. I would rather we all have decent and safe (that is not toxic) jobs that pay actual attending salaries - they don’t even have to be old school rad onc salaries because that won’t be the case for most current and future applicants. But one can’t undo reality rapidly.
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there really are not many possibilities besides:

1) palliative care fellowship and ABR pathway
2) going back to residency (if you did a prelim, 2 more years +\- fellowship)
3) neuro onc fellowship
4) industry
5) consulting
6) leave medicine all together and start a business with your capital
7) anybody aware of anything else?

i am aggressively saving and investing. I think things will get much worst before they improve. Salaries will overall trend down for most. Some will “cheat death” but for many worst is yet to come. In the end i hope we all make a “good living” and are happy
 
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I guess it would be helpful to hear some hints as to who sent the letter(s), what action(s) was threatened, and on what grounds.
 
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Agree that this field is in really sad shape right now. Compared to where it was when I applied to residency, the fall from grace has been impressive and terrifying.
 
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hbosch said:
If it’s an actual legal letter sent by a lawyer, I imagine whoever received that letter probably has a lawyer advising them and I imagine the lawyer is advising them to not leak the letter. Having said, I know nothing about law myself nor anything of this letter nor anything of the person/people who received it.
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guys none of us are lawyers but you share personal emails with impunity. It's a form of conversation, and you can divulge conversations you have with anybody you want (except HIPAA protected etc I guess). You can even divulge conversations with the President of the United States.
 
scarbrtj said:
On ROHUB evidently they’ve been deleting anti ABR sentiments. That should be addressed. But I loathe ROHUB and don’t really want to get on there. But maybe I should....
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Are these people stupid? Deleting and threatening cant end well for them. Would also love to know who in the abr thought discipline/investigations based on anonymous complaints was perfectly reasonable and that we should be forced into agreeing to this.
 
Mandelin Rain said:
And they said SDN serves no purpose and is just full of miscreants.
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Well even this simul chap came on here and was like “but bro come over to twitter and out yourself and then I’ll talk to you and we have a real conversation”. Perhaps he learned. Some learn by stick, some learn by carrot.
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
Well even this simul chap came on here and was like “but bro come over to twitter and out yourself and then I’ll talk to you and we have a real conversation”. Perhaps he learned. Some learn by stick, some learn by carrot.
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Love to have a drink with you one day lol
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
there really are not many possibilities besides:

1) palliative care fellowship and ABR pathway
2) going back to residency (if you did a prelim, 2 more years +\- fellowship)
3) neuro onc fellowship
4) industry
5) consulting
6) leave medicine all together and start a business with your capital
7) anybody aware of anything else?

i am aggressively saving and investing. I think things will get much worst before they improve. Salaries will overall trend down for most. Some will “cheat death” but for many worst is yet to come. In the end i hope we all make a “good living” and are happy
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I was in between gigs when covid hit so I spent the time to learn Python programming to use for bioinformatics as a bail out if needed. There's a website called Coursera that for like $50 bucks a month you can access distance courses from top notch universities. I've done 3 of 5 courses from University of Michigan's Python for Everybody specialization. Its pretty basic and builds up very slowly which is great for me since programming is foreign to me.

The "nuclear option" for me is to move to The Villages in Florida or Margaritaville in Bluffton, SC and sell testosterone and cialis to horny old men then subsequently counsel them and treat the STDs they contract.
 
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dieABRdie said:
I was in between gigs when covid hit so I spent the time to learn Python programming to use for bioinformatics as a bail out if needed. There's a website called Coursera that for like $50 bucks a month you can access distance courses from top notch universities. I've done 3 of 5 courses from University of Michigan's Python for Everybody specialization. Its pretty basic and builds up very slowly which is great for me since programming is foreign to me.

The "nuclear option" for me is to move to The Villages in Florida or Margaritaville in Bluffton, SC and sell testosterone and cialis to horny old men then subsequently counsel them and treat the STDs they contract.
Click to expand...

7) vitamin infusions, IV fluid hangover clinic
8) low T, erection clinic
9) growth hormone youthfulness clinic
10) pain clinic
11) ketamine infusion clinic
12) python clinic
 
Med Spas seem to do well? Are Botox parties still a thing?
 
ASTRO on Social media conduct in ASTROgram today

Friendly reminder: Social media code of conduct
Social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and others, have had a profound effect on how we communicate with each other. Research results, requests for input on clinical challenges and informal surveys are just a few of the many topics that ASTRO members discuss with each other online. The ASTRO website houses another such platform, the ROhub, where members pose questions and comment on a similarly wide range of topics. The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians. ASTRO staff monitors the site for inappropriate content and is empowered to remove posts that may be deemed offensive. Occasionally, however, things slip through that may have been best left unsaid. Anyone posting on ROhub must observe a professional tone and strictly refrain from personal attacks on another individual, without exception. Although ASTRO cannot police Twitter, it is the sincere hope of the Board of Directors that our members will act responsibly and refrain from unprofessional behavior on any social media platform and to think twice before pushing "Send." The Board exists to serve the membership. If you are unhappy or angry with someone or something, the first step should be to reach out to that person directly to discuss the issue instead of a provocative post on social media. Young and old, resident and attending, we are all colleagues and need to treat each other with respect.
 
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Chartreuse Wombat said:
ASTRO on Social media conduct in ASTROgram today

Friendly reminder: Social media code of conduct
Social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and others, have had a profound effect on how we communicate with each other. Research results, requests for input on clinical challenges and informal surveys are just a few of the many topics that ASTRO members discuss with each other online. The ASTRO website houses another such platform, the ROhub, where members pose questions and comment on a similarly wide range of topics. The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians. ASTRO staff monitors the site for inappropriate content and is empowered to remove posts that may be deemed offensive. Occasionally, however, things slip through that may have been best left unsaid. Anyone posting on ROhub must observe a professional tone and strictly refrain from personal attacks on another individual, without exception. Although ASTRO cannot police Twitter, it is the sincere hope of the Board of Directors that our members will act responsibly and refrain from unprofessional behavior on any social media platform and to think twice before pushing "Send." The Board exists to serve the membership. If you are unhappy or angry with someone or something, the first step should be to reach out to that person directly to discuss the issue instead of a provocative post on social media. Young and old, resident and attending, we are all colleagues and need to treat each other with respect.
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I was just about to post this...WOW.

The "professionalism" stick gets wielded once again. Are you in a position of power/leadership in Medicine and something happens which you don't agree with? Come in swinging that big PROFESSIONALISM HAMMER and all is right with the world.

Disgusting.
 
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“Be professional or face consequences”= you better stfu
 
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Chartreuse Wombat said:
ASTRO on Social media conduct in ASTROgram today

Friendly reminder: Social media code of conduct
Social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and others, have had a profound effect on how we communicate with each other. Research results, requests for input on clinical challenges and informal surveys are just a few of the many topics that ASTRO members discuss with each other online. The ASTRO website houses another such platform, the ROhub, where members pose questions and comment on a similarly wide range of topics. The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians. ASTRO staff monitors the site for inappropriate content and is empowered to remove posts that may be deemed offensive. Occasionally, however, things slip through that may have been best left unsaid. Anyone posting on ROhub must observe a professional tone and strictly refrain from personal attacks on another individual, without exception. Although ASTRO cannot police Twitter, it is the sincere hope of the Board of Directors that our members will act responsibly and refrain from unprofessional behavior on any social media platform and to think twice before pushing "Send." The Board exists to serve the membership. If you are unhappy or angry with someone or something, the first step should be to reach out to that person directly to discuss the issue instead of a provocative post on social media. Young and old, resident and attending, we are all colleagues and need to treat each other with respect.
Click to expand...
So they’re basically saying PW violates the professionalism policy.
I’m saying it.
Gee. I hope they talk to him.
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
Well even this simul chap came on here and was like “but bro come over to twitter and out yourself and then I’ll talk to you and we have a real conversation”. Perhaps he learned. Some learn by stick, some learn by carrot.
Click to expand...

This is what came to mind as well. This is the payment you get for being non-anonymous and having ideas that go against the oppressive regime of ABR (and apparently, ASTRO complicitly with them).

The silence from non-anonymous twitter accounts is truly deafening, although I certainly appreciate the consideration of people saying "I don't want to get involved with this as I don't want my career to end up in the toilet like this guy's"
 
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Chartreuse Wombat said:
ASTRO on Social media conduct in ASTROgram today

Friendly reminder: Social media code of conduct
Social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and others, have had a profound effect on how we communicate with each other. Research results, requests for input on clinical challenges and informal surveys are just a few of the many topics that ASTRO members discuss with each other online. The ASTRO website houses another such platform, the ROhub, where members pose questions and comment on a similarly wide range of topics. The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians. ASTRO staff monitors the site for inappropriate content and is empowered to remove posts that may be deemed offensive. Occasionally, however, things slip through that may have been best left unsaid. Anyone posting on ROhub must observe a professional tone and strictly refrain from personal attacks on another individual, without exception. Although ASTRO cannot police Twitter, it is the sincere hope of the Board of Directors that our members will act responsibly and refrain from unprofessional behavior on any social media platform and to think twice before pushing "Send." The Board exists to serve the membership. If you are unhappy or angry with someone or something, the first step should be to reach out to that person directly to discuss the issue instead of a provocative post on social media. Young and old, resident and attending, we are all colleagues and need to treat each other with respect.
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When you bully, do it on an email....

WTF kind of messaging is this

Let's quit ABR and ASTRO as well

ASCO 100x better than ASTRO and more powerful anyways

Hell, I might even join ESTRO screw it
 
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Sigh. This is just sooo disheartening. Just when you think ASTRO may be on your side for once, you're reminded that they are only a little bit less ****ty than the horrific ABR.
*thinking once*
*thinking twice*
*send*
 
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evilbooyaa said:
This is what came to mind as well. This is the payment you get for being non-anonymous and having ideas that go against the oppressive regime of ABR (and apparently, ASTRO complicitly with them).

The silence from non-anonymous twitter accounts is truly deafening, although I certainly appreciate the consideration of people saying "I don't want to get involved with this as I don't want my career to end up in the toilet like this guy's"
Click to expand...

Where are all the woke accounts now? Where are those who are building careers sticking up for women and minorities in medicine and radonc? Where are you when you are actually needed?

I'm disappointed but not surprised to see it's all been empty virtue-signaling and careerism. Maybe if a paper could be produced out of this debacle they'd be interested.
 
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1592424689408.png


We're truly in the Thunderdome now
 
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elementaryschooleconomics said:
View attachment 310213

We're truly in the Thunderdome now
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first you fart in direction but if it does not work, next step is we throw poop

as an aside, Dr Chang was accepted to Purdue at age 11, never went to high school and was practicing as a rad onc in his 20s. Google told me so

www.kplctv.com

Age is just a number for young cancer doctor

A 29-year-old cancer doctor is proving age is just a number! KPLC's Britney Glaser reports Dr. David Chang never graduated high school, because he was accepted to Purdue University at age 11.
www.kplctv.com www.kplctv.com

he is also the author of the great Chang rad bio/physics book

www.ochsner.org

David Chang, MD

David Chang, MD, specializes in Radiation Oncology at Ochsner Health in Lake Charles, LA
www.ochsner.org www.ochsner.org
 
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Just so y'all know know, ABR requires 25 SA-CME credits (now 15 if you participate in the online thing) for maintenance of certification. Who provides SA-CME at $25 per credit x 25 credits x 5000 radiation oncologists = 3.1 million dollars? You guessed it. ASTRO!

Stay woke.
 
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Mandelin Rain said:
Just so y'all know know, ABR requires 25 SA-CME credits (now 15 if you participate in the online thing) for maintenance of certification. Who provides SA-CME at $25 per credit x 25 credits x 5000 radiation oncologists = 3.1 million dollars? You guessed it. ASTRO!

Stay woke.
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The smart, non-woke, cheapskates like yours truly get it free

Applied Radiology - SAM

www.appliedradiology.org
 
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medgator said:
The smart, non-woke, cheapskates like yours truly get it free

Applied Radiology - SAM

www.appliedradiology.org
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Yeah, I definitely do free SA-CMEs but most practicing physicians I know pay the $25/credit to read the irrelevant Red Journal article that they've already paid for with their dues and fill out the BS quiz.

More just illustrative that these are not two distinct organizations with no business relationship. There is money being made both ways in keeping the status quo.
 
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Re ASTRO Social Media email...

1. ROHub:
- This is a formal place with registered members, so I somewhat agree with ASTRO that members need to be civil and respectful.
Idk what ASTRO meant by "The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians."
I did not see any posts that were "offensive", maybe all the questionable posts were removed before I got to read them.

- OTOH, these are all Board-Certified "adult" ROs, what is wrong with leaving their posts alone? We go through 4-5 yrs of residency/fellowship etc. and should be "adult". A post that may sound offensive to ASTRO may be OK to some of us. It is best left alone so other members can see and judge for themselves. These people know how to read Red Journal, they can read the posts and make their own judgment.

- Unless the posts were blatantly disrespectful, they should be left alone so people can judge for themselves.
In other words, bad stuff: get rid of it.; controversial posts: leave them alone and let the world judge that individual. This is what a free society is. For God's sake, Red J has many published articles that are controversial, and the world will judge these articles.

2. Twitter:
- 99.9% of ROs with Twitter accounts should know the rules (HIPAA, civil etiquette, prof etiquette etc.).
Again, these are all adults. Not any adults, but adults with 12-18 yrs of higher education (4 yrs of college, 4 yrs of med school, 4-10 yrs of residency/fellowship/PhD etc.).
Of course ASTRO cannot police Twitter and they should not. They did NOT need to mention Twitter etiquette.
Even POTUS, Donald Trump cannot police Twitter.

I am glad SDN and Twitter exist. Imagine if SDN and Twitter do not exist, how do new grads voice their concern re ABR fiasco (2018 pass rates and the current oral exam cancellation non-sense)? I can bet with you that if SDN and Twitter do not exist, the current 2020 grads will do their exam(s) in 2021.

ASTRO should have said "Thanks God Twitter exists, we learn so much from Twitter, and this makes ASTRO better."
 
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Chartreuse Wombat said:
ASTRO on Social media conduct in ASTROgram today

Friendly reminder: Social media code of conduct
Social media platforms, such as Twitter, Facebook and others, have had a profound effect on how we communicate with each other. Research results, requests for input on clinical challenges and informal surveys are just a few of the many topics that ASTRO members discuss with each other online. The ASTRO website houses another such platform, the ROhub, where members pose questions and comment on a similarly wide range of topics. The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians. ASTRO staff monitors the site for inappropriate content and is empowered to remove posts that may be deemed offensive. Occasionally, however, things slip through that may have been best left unsaid. Anyone posting on ROhub must observe a professional tone and strictly refrain from personal attacks on another individual, without exception. Although ASTRO cannot police Twitter, it is the sincere hope of the Board of Directors that our members will act responsibly and refrain from unprofessional behavior on any social media platform and to think twice before pushing "Send." The Board exists to serve the membership. If you are unhappy or angry with someone or something, the first step should be to reach out to that person directly to discuss the issue instead of a provocative post on social media. Young and old, resident and attending, we are all colleagues and need to treat each other with respect.
Click to expand...

Uhhhh WE'VE TRIED!! (in response to directly reaching out to people). Stuff it ASTRO.
 
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“The recent postponement of Board certification exams by the ABR has been met with disappointment and anger with considerable commentary, some of which has resulted in exchanges, both private and public, that have lacked the civil tone and professional courtesy that one would expect of discourse between physicians."

Is it possible this was, in part, directed at Wallner?
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
first you fart in direction but if it does not work, next step is we throw poop

as an aside, Dr Chang was accepted to Purdue at age 11, never went to high school and was practicing as a rad onc in his 20s. Google told me so

www.kplctv.com

Age is just a number for young cancer doctor

A 29-year-old cancer doctor is proving age is just a number! KPLC's Britney Glaser reports Dr. David Chang never graduated high school, because he was accepted to Purdue University at age 11.
www.kplctv.com www.kplctv.com

he is also the author of the great Chang rad bio/physics book

www.ochsner.org

David Chang, MD

David Chang, MD, specializes in Radiation Oncology at Ochsner Health in Lake Charles, LA
www.ochsner.org www.ochsner.org
Click to expand...

Also, his mother, who is also a radiation oncologist, does locums for him. I read it on the internet once. Very cute

Anyways, this guy is basically one of the only reasons I passed radbio/physics, so I feel obligated to give his book a shoutout

amazon.com/Basic-Radiotherapy-Physics-Biology-David/dp/3319068407

Residents, available on SpringerLink also if your institution subscribes to that
 
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