Rad Onc Twitter

[frijoles]

recent update: many people are saying, ABR emergency meeting tonight with board of trustees, stay tuned folks!

time is up on you Paul. Release the letter!!!!

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[thecarbonionangle]

View attachment 309825



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

besides the popcorn add a slow cooked pot of beans

 

[Haybrant]

recent update: many people are saying, ABR emergency meeting tonight with board of trustees, stay tuned folks!

time is up on you Paul. Release the letter!!!!

Wow where did you hear about abr emergency meeting? Is that for reals

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Wow where did you hear about abr emergency meeting? Is that for reals

 

[scarbrtj]

recent update: many people are saying, ABR emergency meeting tonight with board of trustees, stay tuned folks!

time is up on you Paul. Release the letter!!!!

What is that they say at the Vatican?
White smoke, new pope; black smoke, nope.
We pray Dear Lord, white smoke tonight.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I’m sure the Board of Trustees of the ABR LOVE Having a Friday night meeting to discuss yet another controversy with their board.

 

[medgator]

ACR, the competent parent you wish you had instead of the deadbeat drunk ABR one who's got custody

 

[Neuronix]

Wouldn't surprise me if Willis Knighton. They were hiring for a non partnership track position recently because "partnership doesn't exist in major metros". Since when is Shreveport a major metro? Def looking for cheap labor.

I had a phone interview with them years ago. They gave me the creepiest vibes. It's true though they were super proud of their Shreveport location and were offering nothing of lifestyle or good pay. Since then I'm pretty sure at least one person was hired and left.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

What is that they say at the Vatican?
White smoke, new pope; black smoke, nope.
We pray Dear Lord, white smoke tonight.

they say “habemus papam”

 

[radoncgrad2019]

 

[scarbrtj]

they say “habemus papam”

Speaking of holy things

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Speaking of holy things
View attachment 309884

I think it is so intereting how academic chairs (look at trash washu chair admission too) think we make too much and like making half as much is still “good living”. Maybe it is and maybe its not, but going back to the quote: “ I have been a poor man and I have been a rich man and i choose rich every f@@@@@@ time!” I take my own greed over their own greed.
I’d rather make more than be a slave to an academic “leader” who thinks I make too much money and would be great to get me in their lab running gels on the cheap doing a “fellowship”. Im not saying pp guys dont love cheap labour, but You know, speaking of cheap labour, who loves it the most? Academic chairs. AND these are precisely the same people who colluded in meetings to expand residencies and get warm bodies on the cheap.

 

[deleted774703]

I will donate $100 to a charity of your choosing (non-racist) to whoever goes on twitter and asks about MDACC job fiasco in response to Prajnan Das

$200 if you add Percy lee (biggest gaslighter on MDACC about jobs) and Albert Koong

I would do if myself but 1) I’m a lurker and 2) I need a job soon haha

 

[scarbrtj]

I think it is so intereting how academic chairs (look at trash washu chair admission too) think we make too much and like making half as much is still “good living”. Maybe it is and maybe its not, but going back to the quote: “ I have been a poor man and I have been a rich man and i choose rich every f@@@@@@ time!” I take my own greed over their own greed.
I’d rather make more than be a slave to an academic “leader” who thinks I make too much money and would be great to get me in their lab running gels on the cheap doing a “fellowship”. Im not saying pp guys dont love cheap labour, but You know, speaking of cheap labour, who loves it the most? Academic chairs. AND these are precisely the same people who colluded in meetings to expand residencies and get warm bodies on the cheap.

Take away three writtens, one oral exam, give ability to find job easily in any locale, give less discrimination, more vacation and work hour flexibility... and half pay... then you’ve got a good deal for med students

 

[yesmaster]

Target the population of students with Step 1 scores under 210 with few options but unusually rich life experiences and maturity, and the chairs won't have to compromise. Even better, with Step 1 becoming pass/fail, many schools giving pass/fail grades, and other changes aimed at corroding the visibility of merit, programs can admit whomever and still peddle the narrative that rad onc is highly selective with our surgery and med onc colleagues.

Grading Systems Use by US Medical Schools

Clinical clerkships continue to be H/HP/P/F. It's mostly a positive, but some may feel that this will select for unusually pleasant and docile trainees.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

I had a phone interview with them years ago. They gave me the creepiest vibes. It's true though they were super proud of their Shreveport location and were offering nothing of lifestyle or good pay. Since then I'm pretty sure at least one person was hired and left.

how do you define creepy when it comes to a phone call ha?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Take away three writtens, one oral exam, give ability to find job easily in any locale, give less discrimination, more vacation and work hour flexibility... and half pay... then you’ve got a good deal for med students

Shave a year off training too.

While we're at it, put a salary cap on all academic department chairs if you want to pay RadOnc attendings like pediatricians. Henceforth chairs will not make more than $200k/year - the prestige of their title and their contribution to the "greater good" should be enough to bridge the difference between their current salary and $200k, yes?

What a glorious mountain Ralph preaches from. Currently in his mid-70s, he has lived through the rise of Radiation Oncology and has financially reaped the rewards. Now, as the field experiences turmoil, he repeatedly suggests slashing salaries.

This is really peak boomer behavior. I have almost no hope of this field correcting itself while the current generation of academic chairs have their power.

 

[scarbrtj]

how do you define creepy when it comes to a phone call ha?

“Hi! Do you prefer to have your own opinions or get along with people?”

 

[Neuronix]

how do you define creepy when it comes to a phone call ha?

Let's just say that bragging to a recruit about everyone you fired over the years is not endearing.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

Ah gotcha. Yeah I would have to agree. Some people get off on firing people. Rings some bells!

 

[scarbrtj]

 

[Carotenoid]

To all the posters from Twitter who came in here and demanded we give up our anonymity and join the Twitter crowd: This is why we will not. SDN remains the only outlet for inconvenient truths to come to light. Here are a few of them:

- unbridled residency expansion has significantly negatively affected the radonc job market, and will do so unless significant contraction occurs.
- most (not all) academic satellite jobs are the worst of all worlds: paid like an academic doc, but work like a private practice one
- the ABR does not care (at all) about radonc trainees and how their decisions affect their lives.
- hypofractionation/SBRT/APM models are all great for patients and society. They will continue to put negative pressure on the job market as well.

Agreed.

 

[Carotenoid]

If this ain’t it, it won’t ever be.
And if it ain’t, people can’t in good conscience allow themselves to be known as ABR certified.
How to get from that first thing to that second thing though would display a conviction and unity previously totally unseen in our ranks.

nothing will change until we the diplomates *and the candidates) revolt. Expecting ABR/PW to suddenly get religion is naive. Past performance here totally predicts future results.

 

[Carotenoid]

Alright folks. Here it is, i swam around the swamp and did some digging. Here is what is known:

Word on the streeets, many people are saying!!, that THE Paul Wallner sent a threatening nasty litigious letter to a first year attending who brought up on twitter the gender issues regarding pregnancy, breast feeding and the ABR. The letter has clear sexist language as well.

So this will not be my last update on this matter. More to come folks! the word is out and “everyone” knows. Don’t hold back what you know any further.

TIMESUP on on you Paul, if only you could have retired peacefully, gracefully.

That young woman is extremely brave.

 

[Carotenoid]

Why is this surprising to anyone? The ABR doesn't accommodate anything. If you had a heart attack during the exam, I have no doubts they would fail you on record, keep all of your money, and make you wait a year to do it again. I know someone who failed to become board certified because of severe anxiety. Not because he was an incompetent rad onc. Where's his accommodation? The ABR doesn't care how many careers they ruin, families they break apart, and lives they disrupt. Because it's all in the name of protecting the public (with a bunch of written exams with irrelevant minutae based on bogus statstical methods and a subjective oral exam, and of course letting old docs who don't know how to 3D plan continue to practice with their grandfathered lifetime certification)

If citizens of Minneapolis can convince their leaders to disband their entire police force, maybe there's hope we can get the ABR to eliminate orals and condense the process from 4 exams into one that you can keep taking until you pass. The whole process seems unnecessarily cruel. Whether the ABR leadership is going out of their way to make it extra cruel for women and minorities I can't say, but rotten attitudes begets further rottenness. Why are we still going through this academic hazing process well into our 30s?

You can certainly make an argument, whether you believe our field is actually filled with over bigots or whether you just believe in systemic prejeduice and that we all have inherent bias, that an oral in-person exam is discriminatory to women and minorities as the person can physically see you and make a subjective assessment.

Regardless. Enough already. Wallner needs to go.

I am in.
Orals are obsolete. Peds section shouldn't even be on it - that should be a separate fellowship. If there are rad oncs in real life who practice from what they just retained in their heads from the Blue Book or the Green Book - they are dangerous; we ought to be looking things up constantly when treating patients. We ought to ask others for advice. We should not make "split-second" decisions on how to treat tracheal cancer.
ABR is worthless. Wallner is an unacceptable individual.

 

[deleted774703]

I will donate $100 to a charity of your choosing (non-racist) to whoever goes on twitter and asks about MDACC job fiasco in response to Prajnan Das

$200 if you add Percy lee (biggest gaslighter on MDACC about jobs) and Albert Koong

I would do if myself but 1) I’m a lurker and 2) I need a job soon haha

UPDATE! We have a winner in lemmiwinks

Let me know your charity and I’ll donate in your name ha

Dave fuller got his feelings hurt....cry me a River

 

[Carotenoid]

The fray? Sticking up for herself and for other women, both now and in the future, by fighting injust policies and an injust organization, headed by one who can best be described as the Platonic Ideal of precisely the kind of entrenched male Boomer whose death grip on power society desperately needs to loosen? She’s a goddamn hero. She’s miles above the fray.

She is an extremely brave and conscientious young woman. Agree, she is way above the fray. We need to stand by her.

 

[Carotenoid]

My understanding is that this was definitely not a "reply all" whoopsie. The purpose of the email was to threaten and intimidate a young woman to keep silent about these problems and big names were copied as way to intensify this intimidation.

Imagine if nobody showed up for orals next year. They'd be done. In the past, nobody has been willing to stick their necks out to stand up against bullies in the field such as the ABR and abusive chairs and PDs because it wasn't worth sacrificing one's career as you can't practice unless you play by their rules. But there's power in numbers. Just need an organizer and something to get behind. A sexist threatening email trying to intimidate a young pregnant woman's freedom to speak up in a public forum would do it. Especially when it is coming from a objectively awful old man who is nearly universally despised in the field with a reputation of abusing power and being generally cruel.

Like I said, I think/hope he finally overplayed his hand. Copying all these bigwigs on it to pack a bigger punch to her increases the chances it will be leaked.

I am fully in. Boycott the ABR.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

UPDATE! We have a winner in lemmiwinks

Let me know your charity and I’ll donate in your name ha

Dave fuller got his feelings hurt....cry me a River

"Bro" - the empathy and care for colleagues arguably started with "bloodbath in the Red Journal" and has been in full force here for the last 7+ years.

Dave, care to join the rest of us?

 

[scarbrtj]

UPDATE! We have a winner in lemmiwinks

Let me know your charity and I’ll donate in your name ha

Dave fuller got his feelings hurt....cry me a River

Compassion or deference for the dead won’t do near as much as for the living. Let the news be spread. A popular phrase now: it’s time for difficult and uncomfortable discussions. Help (med student, even resident and early career) people make informed consent on life altering decisions. Snark along the way is a coping mechanism so it doesn’t get REALLY dark.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

 

[scarbrtj]

View attachment 309896

Funny/ironic/bittersweet because Thanos’ name comes from Thanatos, a Greek mythology figure that was the personification of death. And Thanatos is also the psychological “death drive,” the drive toward self-destruction. You know, the arc rad onc has taken the last 10 or so years!

Death drive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Funny/ironic/bittersweet because Thanos’ name comes from Thanatos, a Greek mythology figure that was the personification of death. And Thanatos is also the psychological “death drive,” the drive toward self-destruction. You know, the arc rad onc has taken the last 10 or so years!

Death drive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

RadOnc could use our own Thanos.

Instead, we're blessed with Paul "old man who yells at clouds and thinks women belong at home" Wallner.

I might become a plumber.

 

[yesmaster]

It's a shame satire went out of fashion as a way of critiquing serious problems, in favor of pandering positivity to the powers that be.

Mark Twain and Jonathan Swift must be pleased they've been replaced by the Twitterati.

Edit: That being said, I do feel MDA residents like those of any program should celebrate their graduation day in peace. Many opportunities for discourse in future days.

 

[OTN]

View attachment 309888

Sigh.

This is heartbreaking. They don’t deserve this.

We did the best we could. Sucks hard to be proven right.

 

[Haybrant]

"Bro" - the empathy and care for colleagues arguably started with "bloodbath in the Red Journal" and has been in full force here for the last 7+ years.

Dave, care to join the rest of us?

Don’t know Dave fuller but what a childish post, like he literally sounds like a child.

 

[StIGMA]

Don’t know Dave fuller but what a childish post, like he literally sounds like a child.

It's unprofessional. Given how strict some universities are with public communications, I expect the public accounts to be increasingly regulated ... becoming even more useless propaganda tools.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Is there an update on the 7 people that had their offer rescinded? Did two say “F-it” and walk? How do the rest feel about being coerced into a fellowship? How long will the “fellowship” last? Are they actually guaranteed jobs at the end of this? So many questions.

To hear the MDACC gaslighting, you’d think that they themselves asked for this and it’s a great thing for them.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

To hear the MDACC gaslighting, you’d think that they themselves asked for this and it’s a great thing for them.

details?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Is there an update on the 7 people that had their offer rescinded? Did two say “F-it” and walk? How do the rest feel about being coerced into a fellowship? How long will the “fellowship” last? Are they actually guaranteed jobs at the end of this? So many questions.

To hear the MDACC gaslighting, you’d think that they themselves asked for this and it’s a great thing for them.

The only thing I've heard is that the "fellowships" are supposed to last 6-12 months at which point Anderson "will" be able to hire them.

I imagine (given the timeline of COVID) that this decision was made pretty late into their PGY-5 year and most were unable (or unwilling) to scramble to secure attending jobs elsewhere. It must be devastating to think you've got your future locked up early on, spend almost a year planning (+/- with a significant other/family) your new logistics (financial and otherwise) only to have the rug pulled out from under you in the 11th hour. If we were something like Internal Medicine or Neurology you could conceivably pivot into a new position at a nearby hospital/group but, as we all know, "flexible" is never a term used to describe Radiation Oncology.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Is there an update on the 7 people that had their offer rescinded? Did two say “F-it” and walk? How do the rest feel about being coerced into a fellowship? How long will the “fellowship” last? Are they actually guaranteed jobs at the end of this? So many questions.

To hear the MDACC gaslighting, you’d think that they themselves asked for this and it’s a great thing for them.

hey i am here to help so sign right here and do a fellowship with us, We will exploit you and scut you out for a year. We call that “empathy”, Bro. This is the anderson way. Welcome to the family!

 

[radoncgrad2019]

hey i am here to help so sign right here and do a fellowship with us, We will exploit you and scut you out for a year. We call that “empathy”, Bro. This is the anderson way. Welcome to the family!

‘The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government/MD Anderson and I'm here to help.’ - Ronald Reagan

 

[deleted774703]

Is there an update on the 7 people that had their offer rescinded? Did two say “F-it” and walk? How do the rest feel about being coerced into a fellowship? How long will the “fellowship” last? Are they actually guaranteed jobs at the end of this? So many questions.

To hear the MDACC gaslighting, you’d think that they themselves asked for this and it’s a great thing for them.

From a source:

2 ppl are non MDACC grads and were left scrambling

The other 5 are MDACC grads and are transitioned to fellowship

Of course those 5 cant say anything bad b/c they are staying on and they have to play nice out of "good faith" that they will eventually be rewarded

 

[radoncgrad2019]

'Read My Lips. No New Residency Slots' - George HW Bush

 

[frijoles]

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[elementaryschooleconomics]

Sent from my iPhone using SDN

Twitter is really spicy in the COVID Era!

 

[deleted573262]

UPDATE! We have a winner in lemmiwinks

Let me know your charity and I’ll donate in your name ha

Dave fuller got his feelings hurt....cry me a River

Sure, his response is childish but it misses the mark that the job market is incredibly distorted such that a two month slow down in new consults has forced graduates into "fellowships" (call it what you want).

Seems like some of the twitter folk understand images and memes, here is one relevant for concerns and recent development from covid-related slowdown:

 

[scarbrtj]

(Speaking of childishness...)
Until we can all agree these unaccredited, essentially worthless fellowships equal "unemployed as a practicing rad onc" after residency, we will get nowhere. All fellowship-takers after residency, in rad onc, should be counted as unemployed. (I mean this as NO disrespect if you are a fellow reading this.) As such, the majority of rad onc residency grads from MDACC, one of America's top programs, find themselves unemployed in 2020. Opportunity loss for these young people: huge. On the other hand MDACC gets, literally (in comparison to what it ordinarily would pay), millions of dollars in discounted labor.
This is entirely unseen in the history of rad onc as a separate specialty.
It's breadlines time.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

(Speaking of childishness...)
Until we can all agree these unaccredited, essentially worthless fellowships equal "unemployed as a practicing rad onc" after residency, we will get nowhere. All fellowship-takers after residency, in rad onc, should be counted as unemployed. (I mean this as NO disrespect if you are a fellow reading this.) As such, the majority of rad onc residency grads from MDACC, one of America's top programs, find themselves unemployed in 2020. Opportunity loss for these young people: huge. On the other hand MDACC gets, literally (in comparison to what it ordinarily would pay), millions of dollars in discounted labor.
This is entirely unseen in the history of rad onc as a separate specialty.
It's breadlines time.

“the breadlines are here”

 

[scarbrtj]

“the breadlines are here”

We now have, and yes it might be an anomaly in 2020, well over 20 people a year going into these fellowships. Insanity. Especially since rad onc is mostly practiced by "generalists," and the fellowships "[offer] no recognized credential, seem to offer no direct pathway to the endpoints to many of the reasons for RO trainees to enter the programs, and for the most part, seem to be merely 'more of the same.'" The presence of increasing fellowshipping is due to low job opportunities out in the wild. Who can't see this???
WE HAVE A >10% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN RAD ONC IN 2020