Rad Onc Twitter

[bergonieandtribondeau]

Radiation Oncology fellowships should really only be pursued for two non-mutually exclusive reasons

1. To gain additional training and knowledge in a domain of the field to a degree not available in residency (e.g. Peds, Protons, Brachy) that aligns with the fellow's personal interests and career goals
2. To further develop one's candidacy in the field of academic Radiation Oncology through faculty mentorship and research opportunities (and this is debatable to some extent)

I have absolutely no problem with someone electing to do a fellowship if that was there initial intention for their PGY-6, but using Radiation Oncology "fellowship" as a way of forestalling full-salary hire in a bait-and-switch type fashion at a late stage in the job search is a completely unscrupulous practice. It dangles the carrot of full-hire without any guarantee of such, while simultaneously preying upon the inability to make lateral employment shifts at a time so close to residency graduation.

The saturated job market and financial depletion from the COVID-19 epidemic create a perfect storm to bring these about, but it doesn't make their existence any less wrong in my eyes.

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[deleted774703]

Radiation Oncology fellowships should really only be pursued for two non-mutually exclusive reasons

1. To gain additional training and knowledge in a domain of the field to a degree not available in residency (e.g. Peds, Protons, Brachy) that aligns with the fellow's personal interests and career goals
2. To further develop one's candidacy in the field of academic Radiation Oncology through faculty mentorship and research opportunities (and this is debatable to some extent)

I have absolutely no problem with someone electing to do a fellowship if that was there initial intention for their PGY-6, but using Radiation Oncology "fellowship" as a way of forestalling full-salary hire in a bait-and-switch type fashion at a late stage in the job search is a completely unscrupulous practice. It dangles the carrot of full-hire without any guarantee of such, while simultaneously preying upon the inability to make lateral employment shifts at a time so close to residency graduation.

The saturated job market and financial depletion from the COVID-19 epidemic create a perfect storm to bring these about, but it doesn't make their existence any less wrong in my eyes.

I think what happened to MDACC is straight up BS

I also hate fellowships

But this situation is so complicated.

2 ppl left without anything

5 offered fellowship in lieu of unemployment

They could have said no and tried to find a job on their own for 1 year or however long until MDACC is ready

No winners. All losers in this situation

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Fuller is da ultimate gaslighter, very empathetic bro. We all know he loves cheap labour! I’m sure he learned ALL about that in his San Antonio days.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

I think what happened to MDACC is straight up BS

I also hate fellowships

But this situation is so complicated.

2 ppl left without anything

5 offered fellowship in lieu of unemployment

They could have said no and tried to find a job on their own for 1 year or however long until MDACC is ready

No winners. All losers in this situation

what happened to these 7 people sucks. I feel bad for them. Far more people will be hurt by this. This is only the beginning. For some, the best days are yet to come. For others, this is only the beginning of the pain.

 

[bergonieandtribondeau]

what happened to these 7 people sucks. I feel bad for them. Far more people will be hurt by this. This is only the beginning. For some, the best days are yet to come. For others, this is only the beginning of the pain.

I agree. This sets a very concerning precedent that I hope I never see repeated, but fear I will.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

I think what happened to MDACC is straight up BS

I also hate fellowships

But this situation is so complicated.

2 ppl left without anything

5 offered fellowship in lieu of unemployment

They could have said no and tried to find a job on their own for 1 year or however long until MDACC is ready

No winners. All losers in this situation

Winners are MDACC Cheap Labor.

 

[Haybrant]

I agree. This sets a very concerning precedent that I hope I never see repeated, but fear I will.

Hahaha. Dude this is the norm now. We’ve been talking about it for years here and it’s finally here. Enjoy the ride

 

[w00tz]

I think what happened to MDACC is straight up BS

I also hate fellowships

But this situation is so complicated.

2 ppl left without anything

5 offered fellowship in lieu of unemployment

They could have said no and tried to find a job on their own for 1 year or however long until MDACC is ready

No winners. All losers in this situation

I thought someone posted about a senior attending leaving soon and that was going to be able to pay for a couple of salaries? Or is it just 5 fellowship salaries?

 

[deleted774703]

I thought someone posted about a senior attending leaving soon and that was going to be able to pay for a couple of salaries? Or is it just 5 fellowship salaries?

5 fellowship salaries. Idk exact amounts though. Ie PGY6 or higher?

 

[radoncgrad2019]

I get why companies will have hiring freezes but it’s still so crazy to enforce that on people that had already been promised jobs. One of the grads from what I know had been offered the job in December and agreed in January. The CEO/President of MDACC is one tough cookie

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

5 fellowship salaries. Idk exact amounts though. Ie PGY6 or higher?

Seems reasonable. Using the internet:

1) MDAnderson PGY-6 Salary is around $69k -



$69,543 * 5 = $347,715

2) Joe Herman's base salary, 2019 = ~$581,000



Ergo, if Herman's leaving was known --> where the fellowship money came from. Even if all 7 had stayed, his salary could have carried all 7 at a PGY-6 level.

This is 100% speculation on my part (if I was entwined enough at this level of MDACC politics to be certain I was right my posts would be a lot more interesting). I had heard that Anderson salaries were baller, but I had no idea the true scope. Herman's total 2019 compensation was over $800k. I guess when you don't accept Medicaid anything is possible.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Seems reasonable. Using the internet:

1) MDAnderson PGY-6 Salary is around $69k -

View attachment 310001

$69,543 * 5 = $347,715

2) Joe Herman's base salary, 2019 = ~$581,000

View attachment 310002

Ergo, if Herman's leaving was known --> where the fellowship money came from. Even if all 7 had stayed, his salary could have carried all 7 at a PGY-6 level.

This is 100% speculation on my part (if I was entwined enough at this level of MDACC politics to be certain I was right my posts would be a lot more interesting). I had heard that Anderson salaries were baller, but I had no idea the true scope. Herman's total 2019 compensation was over $800k. I guess when you don't accept Medicaid anything is possible.

Also, I know it's well known to the point of being a trope at this point, but the difference in resident vs attending salary is hilarious. For any lurkers reading this thread who are relatively new to medicine - this is why residents are the "backbone of the hospital". An army of doctors making a FRACTION of what senior doctors make - American medicine is peak exploitation.

 

[deleted774703]

I get why companies will have hiring freezes but it’s still so crazy to enforce that on people that had already been promised jobs. One of the grads from what I know had been offered the job in December and agreed in January. The CEO/President of MDACC is one tough cookie

I love my salary a lot but I’d be willing to sacrifice my bonus to help the grads (if I was at MDACC)

Conditional that they would return it to me once they are hired. Zero interest.

Just to help out. But idk if that’s actually legal

 

[radoncgrad2019]

I love my salary a lot but I’d be willing to sacrifice my bonus to help the grads (if I was at MDACC)

Conditional that they would return it to me once they are hired. Zero interest.

Just to help out. But idk if that’s actually legal

this is way above an attending's level, and likely above the rad onc department's level.

They had enough money to hire seven new attendings.

hiring freeze is from the top down. Koong is just a grunt when the Emperor tells him what to do

 

[w00tz]

I love my salary a lot but I’d be willing to sacrifice my bonus to help the grads (if I was at MDACC)

Conditional that they would return it to me once they are hired. Zero interest.

Just to help out. But idk if that’s actually legal

No one should be getting bonuses until these new grads are getting their attending salary.

 

[scarbrtj]

Adding 7 new faculty would've increased the faculty count by, what, about 10%?
One could've thunk: "if MD Anderson needs 10% more rad oncs in 2020... America needs 10% more rad oncs in 2020."
Turns out that was/is not a great thought.
But MDACC of course could make budgetary changes (ie, pay faculty 10% less to hire 10% more docs) if they wanted. It wouldn't be fair. The alternative isn't fair either though. But according to Ralph W, if America added twice as many rad oncs it would "support budding [rad onc] scientists." So maybe MDACC should try to double the faculty number?

They had enough money to hire seven new attendings.

Back of envelope calcs tell me the MDACC rad onc department is probably bringing in ~$200 million a year low side, ~$400 million high side. That's a wide range, I know, but there are many unk variables under the academic hood I'm not fully privy to. But nevertheless, when faced with paying an extra ~$3.5 million (or so) for ~7 new attendings, in the setting of a budgetary hiccup, they "freaked out."

 

[RickyScott]

Can’t imagine mdacc taking on new faculty next year other than these 5, so class 2021 may also need to do some fellowships?


“One could've thunk: "if MD Anderson needs 10% more rad oncs in 2020... America needs 10% more rad oncs in 2020."
Turns out that was/is not a great thought.”
Same guy who thinks treating lung stereo with mri linac is paradigm changing.

 

[RadOncMegatron]

People, I don't check this forum in a weekend and one young rad onc wants to switch fields, MDACC rescinds 2 offers, converts 5 jobs to fellowships, MDACC folks do a cover up job, and Joe Herman is out the door? YOU ARE KIDDING ME!?!?!

Seriously, nobody better make a peep about "job market isn't bad"... My goodness and it's only 1/2 way through 2020....

 

[scarbrtj]

People, I don't check this forum in a weekend and one young rad onc wants to switch fields, MDACC rescinds 2 offers, converts 5 jobs to fellowships, MDACC folks do a cover up job, and Joe Herman is out the door? YOU ARE KIDDING ME!?!?!

Seriously, nobody better make a peep about "job market isn't bad"... My goodness and it's only 1/2 way through 2020....

KO: I have never seen the job market look so good! I have never seen the love for rad onc of incoming residents be so high! I have never seen the indications for XRT be so expansive! I have never seen our linacs be this busy! I have never seen my paycheck be this huge!
(Lightning’s gonna strike one of these folks one day lol)

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

 

[Neuronix]

That's boomer logic. The national average for step 1 has been rising over the decades.

It's called score creep. People teach for the test, study for the test more, and get more protected time to study for the test nowadays than in the past. I don't know what year he took step 1, but you can probably add 20 points to his old score to make a modern comparison. Not bad there KO. Not bad at all.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

That's boomer logic. The national average for step 1 has been rising over the decades.

View attachment 310035

It's called score creep. People teach for the test, study for the test more, and get more protected time to study for the test nowadays than in the past. I don't know what year he took step 1, but you can probably add 20 points to his old score to make a modern comparison. Not bad there KO. Not bad at all.

I don't think he's THAT old, is he? 219 was probably around dead average.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

He probably took Step 1 around 1995 - so his score was probably 5-7 points above average.

 

[Neuronix]

So ~175 -> 192, or 17 point inflation. 17+219 = 236. That's almost exactly the score I applied with.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

So ~175 -> 192, or 17 point inflation. 17+219 = 236. That's almost exactly the score I applied with.

Since I matched much more recently, I can promise you that I scored 284 and I took the test from the orphanage I built in Botswana

 

[Neuronix]

Since I matched much more recently, I can promise you that I scored 284 and I took the test from the orphanage I built in Botswana

This was you?

My Personal Statement | PANDA BEAR, MD

www.pandabearmd.me

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This was you?

My Personal Statement | PANDA BEAR, MD

www.pandabearmd.me

Oh my God! Long ago - and when I used a different account - I remember reading your posts about applying to MD-PhD programs. I feel like you posted this when it came out 14 years ago...

 

[Neuronix]

Oh my God! Long ago - and when I used a different account - I remember reading your posts about applying to MD-PhD programs. I feel like you posted this when it came out 14 years ago...

I'm sure I did

Between you and radoncgrad I have so many stalkers on here. GROUP HUG !

 

[Lamount]

Since I matched much more recently, I can promise you that I scored 284 and I took the test from the orphanage I built in Botswana

I remember as a student getting depressed reading this forum because I didn't have 10+ first author radonc publications, like everyone else (seemingly) did... now I get depressed for other reasons haha

 

[DebtRising]

No greater waste of motivated, intelligent, human capital than rad onc.

 

[medgator]

recent update: many people are saying, ABR emergency meeting tonight with board of trustees, stay tuned folks!

time is up on you Paul. Release the letter!!!!

Heard through deep background from an unconfirmed source at ucsf that SimulD was the recipient of a Wallner NastyGram.

The guy is clearly bored of counting all those dubloons at home from the 21C days

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Heard through deep background from an unconfirmed source at ucsf, which is an overrated scut filled program BTW, that SimulD was the recipient of a Wallner NastyGram.

The guy is clearly bored of counting all those dubloons at home from the 21C days

Even a few years ago this was true about UCSF but their residents have gotten good jobs in the past, perhaps for reputation, deserved or not

 

[Gfunk6]

ucsf, which is an overrated scut filled program BTW

Et tu medgator?
☹️

 

[radoncgrad2019]

UCSF has a great name, but there is no denying the scut they do. it's a place where residents have to do a ton. not like the MDACCs and Yales of the world, for those who are choosing between top programs. they also don't have a great culture of education. this is direct from someone who told me who graduated between 2010 and 2016.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Post the email Simul.

Do it. Bring all darkness to light.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Et tu medgator?
☹

let light be shed where there is darkness. Medgator is right. Dont fight it

 

[radoncgrad2019]

let light be shed where there is darkness. Medgator is right. Dont fight it

TIMES UP

time to stop whispering in the depths of the shadows

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

 

[deleted605854]

The plot thickens. 2020 is full of all kinds of catastrophes.

 

[scarbrtj]

View attachment 310105

Simul's balls are to bravery what carbon ions are to particle therapy: quite massive compared to everything else.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Simul's balls are to bravery what carbon ions are to particle therapy: quite massive compared to everything else.

I expect no other joke with someone who has a Mayneord pun in their handle

 

[KHE88]

View attachment 310105

Unacceptable. You don't want to be silenced? Then don't be silent! Addressing the Wallner problem by keeping it internal and private is not "appropriate."

This piece of work needs to finally be held accountable in the public eye of all of his peers that he has bullied, abused, derided, and harassed over the years.

Everybody needs to see, word-for-word unparaphrased, the way this unfortunate man, who has by some perverted (more likely corrupt) twist of fate been allowed to become the gatekeeper for all of our professional livelihoods, communicates with his would-be peers.

I would encourage everybody who has received a threatening or inappropriate email from Wallner to post it publicly. Literally everyone will support you at this point.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

These emails need to come out. The day of reckoning is coming. expect it.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

View attachment 310105

Good for you Simul. It's almost getting surreal with the ABR. I would think that if the ABR tried to punish anyone speaking out with decertification, they would be met with swift legal retribution, and they would lose. Their only tool is rather blunt. Hard to swing it when running a very tenuous, yet profitable monopoly.

 

[Neuronix]

We don't have a rad onc board; we have a rad onc mafia! Watch out for your kneecaps Simul!


The Twitter rad onc sheeple people blast us on SDN for posting anonymously. Folks, there's been a hidden agenda here all along. Never has it been more obvious. According to the entrenched in rad onc, anyone who does not tow the party line should be and will be punished. Stick to the truth and keep yourself hidden.

There is a SERIOUS culture problem in this specialty.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

We don't have a rad onc board; we have a rad onc mafia! Watch out for your kneecaps Simul!


The Twitter rad onc sheeple people blast us on SDN for posting anonymously. Folks, there's been a hidden agenda here all along. Never has it been more obvious. According to the entrenched in rad onc, anyone who does not tow the party line should be and will be punished. Stick to the truth and keep yourself hidden.

There is a SERIOUS culture problem in this specialty.

 

[KHE88]

We don't have a rad onc board; we have a rad onc mafia! Watch out for your kneecaps Simul!


The Twitter rad onc sheeple people blast us on SDN for posting anonymously. Folks, there's been a hidden agenda here all along. Never has it been more obvious. According to the entrenched in rad onc, anyone who does not tow the party line should be and will be punished. Stick to the truth and keep yourself hidden.

There is a SERIOUS culture problem in this specialty.

This is just going along with the incoming millennial-era zeitgeist. Don't agree with the party line spouted by the mob? Have some questions about the so-called "facts" and "science"? Simply have a different opinion or want to point out a logical fallacy? We will doxx you, completely misrepresent what you are trying to say, call you horrible names, drag your name through the mud, boycott or literally burn down your business, get you fired, make all your friends and family hate and disown you, etc. Maybe your local politician or news outlet will stand up for your rights to speak up? Good luck. They know the mob will vote them out and cancel the subscriptions if they don't go along.

Yeah, this is going to end well for us. Mob rule and witch burning always end well.

Can't there at least be a silver lining in all the noxious social media rancor permeating off everyone's smartphones such that Wallner and the institutional problems at the ABR are finally taken down in the wake of level 5 Twitter woke-ness? Pretty please?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This is just going along with the incoming millennial-era zeitgeist. Don't agree with the party line spouted by the mob? Have some questions about the so-called "facts" and "science"? Simply have a different opinion or want to point out a logical fallacy? We will doxx you, completely misrepresent what you are trying to say, call you horrible names, drag your name through the mud, boycott or literally burn down your business, get you fired, make all your friends and family hate and disown you, etc. Maybe your local politician or news outlet will stand up for your rights to speak up? Good luck. They know the mob will vote them out and cancel the subscriptions if they don't go along.

Yeah, this is going to end well for us. Mob rule and witch burning always end well.

Can't there at least be a silver lining in all the noxious social media rancor permeating off everyone's smartphones such that Wallner and the institutional problems at the ABR are finally taken down in the wake of level 5 Twitter woke-ness? Pretty please?

Sir this is the Wendy's drive through

 

[Haybrant]

We need that Wallner letter to put him to the media and to Twitter court of public opinion. The public is waiting for its chance to jump on healthcare pro’s and Wallner is the ideal guy to fill this void. Bc of covid people are laying off healthcare but it’s time to put WallnerS crap out to the world. Let’s do what we need to to get that letter

 

[Neuronix]

If anyone wants to leak to me, please send it to me. I am more than happy to post anonymously.

If I receive such a letter, I will post it on here immediately.

My wife is a doc too. We'll live on one income if we have to.