Radiologists are doctors??

[(nicedream)]

To current residents and practicing physicians -
Does it ever get frustrating that the lay public doesn't think of radiologists as physicians?
I've heard from many people that they are in school to become radiologists - when I ask what medschool they go to, they say "no, not medschool, Anytown Community College." (rad. techs)
On TV the other night there was something on the news about how the Gulf Coast is in need of "physicians, nurses, radiologists, and other health professionals."
etc.

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[volvulus]

I could care less if people think I'm a "real doc" or not. I don't mind if Radiology kind of stays under the radar. I mainly intereact with other physicians and they know what my education level is. That's enough for me.

To current residents and practicing physicians -
Does it ever get frustrating that the lay public doesn't think of radiologists as physicians?
I've heard from many people that they are in school to become radiologists - when I ask what medschool they go to, they say "no, not medschool, Anytown Community College." (rad. techs)
On TV the other night there was something on the news about how the Gulf Coast is in need of "physicians, nurses, radiologists, and other health professionals."
etc.

 

[fedor]

To current residents and practicing physicians -
Does it ever get frustrating that the lay public doesn't think of radiologists as physicians?
I've heard from many people that they are in school to become radiologists - when I ask what medschool they go to, they say "no, not medschool, Anytown Community College." (rad. techs)
On TV the other night there was something on the news about how the Gulf Coast is in need of "physicians, nurses, radiologists, and other health professionals."
etc.

My closest friend from college is a partner at a hedge fund and is pulling in a nice 7 figures every year. He's not even 30 yet and has 6 million $ saved. When he tells the person on the street he works at a hedge fund they think he's in lawn care. Who really cares? What really matters is what he actually does and not what he is perceived to do.

Radiologists are in the same position. Not even considering the high income, radiology is an essential part of medicine and most doctors highly value the expertise of the radiologist. If you want to impress some silly girl in the bar, just say you're a doctor. I would rather be happy knowing I'm playing an important role in the care of a patient than impressing lay people and playing a marginal role.

Derm, Rads, Rad-Onc, Ophth all have the same problem when it comes to perception by the lay public.

 

[cytoskelement]

Derm, Rads, Rad-Onc, Ophth all have the same problem when it comes to perception by the lay public.

And they care about only up to the time they receive their first paycheck. just kiddin'.

Besides, everyone you interact with professionally will know your level of training. And if you went into this wanting to "wear the white coat" so to speak - that's a whole other can o' worms. the public generally doesn't know how to take care of their own health - hence the obesity epidemic, the still increasing number of smokers overall and COPD, the chronic masturbation, well, for me at least - do you really give a rat's a$$ how you are percieved. AND (cyto takes breath), our most important function IS patient education. what does that call for...


a pamphlet of course!

 

[jmou123]

I guess the whole perception issue goes hand in hand with some of the narcissists in this profession (medicine). If you are going into a field because you need your ego massaged, then you either have an inferiority complex or a small penis

 

[banner]

I guess the whole perception issue goes hand in hand with some of the narcissists in this profession (medicine). If you are going into a field because you need your ego massaged, then you either have an inferiority complex or a small penis

Yeah, who cares about the public's perception? They get most of their half-baked information/opinions from Sit-Coms. Most Americans don't even know how many states there are in the country.

It's better off that they don't think you're a doctor or else you'll have to deal with all their stupid questions about medicine and/or their fibroids.

 

[oncall]

Unfortunately lay people have the IQ of dirt.
Most doctors depend on a radiogist for a diagnosis these days...
The CT scan has virtually replaced the physical exam...As a radiologist (not a real doctor) I can do better H & Ps than most med students and current residents...sad to say. In addition to that I can always look on the scan and give you a diagnosis.

 

[samsoccer7]

One interesting thing I've noticed... If you ever watch ANY kind of medical show, or even the advertisement for, there is inevitably an MR or CT (usually Neuro) in the background hanging, in an attempt to make the show seem more interesting. Even Scrubs uses it in the intro. Just keep your eyes open, it's pretty cool.

And doctors know what you do. I'm doing my transitional year now, and everytime an attending asks what I'm going into and I say "radiology," they usually say something like "smart guy, good choice, I wish I was a radiologist" etc etc etc. Just be happy, and spend more time outside of the hospital and be good to your family and friends and you won't give a **** what some lay-people think about your job.

As far as picking up girls, the radiologist thing isn't as glamorous as saying neurosurgeon, or plastic surgeon, or cardiologist, or whatever. BUT, if you're meeting other professionals, they'll know, and they'll appreciate the fact you want a life outside of medicine, and they know you'll make bank. It hasn't hurt my game in Chicago one bit folks.

 

[modisrules]

Unfortunately lay people have the IQ of dirt.
Most doctors depend on a radiogist for a diagnosis these days...
The CT scan has virtually replaced the physical exam...As a radiologist (not a real doctor) I can do better H & Ps than most med students and current residents...sad to say. In addition to that I can always look on the scan and give you a diagnosis.

I have to say that this is the most ridiculous post I've seen on the forum yet. If you want me to elaborate, I'll be happy to, but I think most will agree with me.

 

[f_w]

One interesting thing I've noticed... If you ever watch ANY kind of medical show, or even the advertisement for, there is inevitably an MR or CT (usually Neuro) in the background hanging, in an attempt to make the show seem more interesting.

The multispecialty group my wife works for decided to put her on their billboards and into an ad-campaign for the practice as a whole. Although she is not a radiologist, the pic on the billboard shows her holding up a random CT scan (you know, against the window, like clinicians and lawyers tend to do it).
The place I did my residency at, featured one of our neurosurgeons in some ads. And guess what he is holding up a CT scan....

You are right, although Joe Public still thinks that a radiologist 'takes X-rays', advertisement folks just love the aura of high-tech medicine that MRIs and CTs imply.

Funny enough, more women seem to know about the existence of radiology than men. Through their annual mammography, they at least know that it is not their GYN 'who did a mammagram' but rather a radiologist.

 

[Molly Maquire]

Actually, MODISRULES, can you please elaborate? (just trying to start a fight).

I think SamSoccer hit the nail right on the head. The fact is, whenever I tell someone at my internship that I am going into radiology, they are visibly impressed. The opinions of my peers are more important that the opinions of uneducated lay people.

 

[fishmonger69]

Unfortunately lay people have the IQ of dirt.
Most doctors depend on a radiogist for a diagnosis these days...
The CT scan has virtually replaced the physical exam...As a radiologist (not a real doctor) I can do better H & Ps than most med students and current residents...sad to say. In addition to that I can always look on the scan and give you a diagnosis.

i'll have to second modisrules on the absolute absurdity of this statement.

Any doctor relying on a radiologist for his diagnoses needs to reconsider his career choice. Any patient of said doctor should seek care elsewhere. Not that radiologists cannot aid in a diagnosis, but if said doctor is not >85% there before the Rad intervenes, ugh.

CT has not replaced the H&P, it's just a required study as part of practicing CYA medicine. unfortunately, we all know what happens with regards to sensitivity/specificity when tests become more freely utilized.

if it is indeed true that you perform a better H&P from your reading room, i weep for your medical students and residents. you might do them all a favor by deconstructing the entire place by hand and building a McDonalds.

a CT means nothing without an H&P, so please do not tell us you can just look at a scan and provide a diagnosis. many a time i have read a radiology report stating "met versus infection versus non-specific process versus possible artifacting. would recommend more imaging". just recently we got CT-Abd followed by Triple Phase for "met versus infection versus fungus ball versus perfusion defect" while good old US showed nothing. good thing the rad could give us a diagnosis just from the CT

this isn't to say radiology isn't important in the practice of medicine, it is. but clearly you are going way over the top in your comments.

 

[modisrules]

"Unfortunately lay people have the IQ of dirt."

It may shock you, but physicians are not the only smart people in this world. But you might miss that by spending your life in a dim windowless room.

"Most doctors depend on a radiogist for a diagnosis these days..."

I know that I'm not putting my reputation/license/career/patients' welfare on the line solely on what someone who looked at a picture wrote in the report. And how do you even know this? You write the report, but do you really know what the ordering physician does with it? If they even read it? I am in fact thinking I should have a rad around on my clinical team just so he can give me the all the Dx's, because I only depend on the rad for those, you know.

"The CT scan has virtually replaced the physical exam..."

What a load of crap. Virtually replaced?! CT is an ordered test. It's nothing without the physical. The CT is ordered because of what is seen in the physical exam, not in place of it. Though, I hear they're doing away with EXAM rooms in favor of putting in CT scanners in every room...

"As a radiologist (not a real doctor) I can do better H & Ps than most med students and current residents...sad to say."

Unfortunately, you telling me this really doesn't convince me that it's true. 85% of people believe they're above average drivers. And I thought H and P's were no longer useful anyway...

"In addition to that I can always look on the scan and give you a diagnosis."

OK - I'll give you any scan you want from four patients. There's no way you'd be able to give me any of the diagnoses - Parkinson disease, Lupus, Malignant Melanoma, and Diabetes - just by looking at the scans.

 

[f_w]

While 'oncall's hybris is mildly entertaining, there are some kernels of truth in his provocative post.

- Lay people for the most part have no idea how medicine works. They believe that 'their surgeon' healed cancer and singlehandedly anesthetized them, interpreted the frozen cut, transfused them and so on. They don't know a whole lot about the medical specialties working in the background to make many of these things possible. So in that regard, I could really care less how high the prestige of my medical specialty is with the lay public. (In addition to my paycheck, I do work for the occasional 'thanks' from a clinician if we were able to help their patient)

- The CT has replaced the clinical exam, at least in all of the EDs I had the pleasure to cover during residency and fellowship. It is often ordered before anyone (except for the triage nurse) has seen the patient. If you call 'down' to the ED, the person whose signature is on the req wasn't able to give you even the most basic findings from his physical exam (which at times can be helpful for the answer to the question met vs infection vs fungus ball).

 

[fishmonger69]

While 'oncall's hybris is mildly entertaining, there are some kernels of truth in his provocative post.

- Lay people for the most part have no idea how medicine works. They believe that 'their surgeon' healed cancer and singlehandedly anesthetized them, interpreted the frozen cut, transfused them and so on. They don't know a whole lot about the medical specialties working in the background to make many of these things possible. So in that regard, I could really care less how high the prestige of my medical specialty is with the lay public. (In addition to my paycheck, I do work for the occasional 'thanks' from a clinician if we were able to help their patient)

-- this is quite true. i might contend that if you're in medicine for the thank yous, you might be upset most of your career.

- The CT has replaced the clinical exam, at least in all of the EDs I had the pleasure to cover during residency and fellowship. It is often ordered before anyone (except for the triage nurse) has seen the patient. If you call 'down' to the ED, the person whose signature is on the req wasn't able to give you even the most basic findings from his physical exam (which at times can be helpful for the answer to the question met vs infection vs fungus ball).

-- "...at least in all of the EDs..." as we all know, EDs are not places where medicine is commonly practiced, and i would be wary of generalizing based on said part of the hsopital.

 

[f_w]

-- this is quite true. i might contend that if you're in medicine for the thank yous, you might be upset most of your career.

Did I mention the paycheck.

-- "...at least in all of the EDs..." as we all know, EDs are not places where medicine is commonly practiced, .

You said it.

 

[Vince]

As an intern on my medicine rotation, if it means never being called "Doctor" again vs. going into Internal Medicine.....you can keep the damn title.

 

[Chief Resident]

Yeah I gave up caring what other people think about me or my career choice sometime during high school!

But then again I have an average-looking, short friend who is a fellow in trauma surgery and women think he's a messiah when he tells them. You can see a 180 degree shift in their attitude towards him. He goes from being the average guy in their mind to the stud surgeon!

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Yeah I gave up caring what other people think about me or my career choice sometime during high school!

Aren't you the guy who has been trolling the allo- forum about DOs and MDs?

But then again I have an average-looking, short friend who is a fellow in trauma surgery and women think he's a messiah when he tells them. You can see a 180 degree shift in their attitude towards him. He goes from being the average guy in their mind to the stud surgeon!

Yeah, you have "friend" who is average looking and short. A friend of yours. Riiigggghhhhttttt.......

 

[banner]

Yeah I gave up caring what other people think about me or my career choice sometime during high school!

But then again I have an average-looking, short friend who is a fellow in trauma surgery and women think he's a messiah when he tells them. You can see a 180 degree shift in their attitude towards him. He goes from being the average guy in their mind to the stud surgeon!

\



Yeah, that aura tends to wear off once they actually find out how hard it is to be a Trauma surgeon and how dedicated you have to be to the work, often at the sacrifice of your personal life. Again, Joe public is pretty stupid and still struggles with seperating TV from reality.

Then again, all the physicians and sub-physicians on this forum who think that being a lawyer is so glamorous and lucrative should stop taking their cues from Law and Order.

 

[toofache32]

Then again, all the physicians and sub-physicians on this forum who think that being a lawyer is so glamorous and lucrative should stop taking their cues from Law and Order.

Do some people really consider lawyers to be glamourous? I have never considered lawyers glamourous....."wow look at how he stands there in his suit and does paperwork all day."

 

[DocM]

Do some people really consider lawyers to be glamourous? I have never considered lawyers glamourous....."wow look at how he stands there in his suit and does paperwork all day."

"stands there in his suit and does paperwork all day"...sounds like an M.D. to me

 

[banner]

Do some people really consider lawyers to be glamourous? I have never considered lawyers glamourous....."wow look at how he stands there in his suit and does paperwork all day."

What can I say?? I guess you're one of the few in the know.

 

[toofache32]

"stands there in his suit and does paperwork all day"...sounds like an M.D. to me

Good point. I thought of that after I wrote it.

 

[PDT4CNV]

To current residents and practicing physicians -
Does it ever get frustrating that the lay public doesn't think of radiologists as physicians?
I've heard from many people that they are in school to become radiologists - when I ask what medschool they go to, they say "no, not medschool, Anytown Community College." (rad. techs)
On TV the other night there was something on the news about how the Gulf Coast is in need of "physicians, nurses, radiologists, and other health professionals."
etc.

There are a lot of specialties that most of the public does not really understand what they do, the difference between them and related non-MD professions, or does not consider them "real doctors"

Radiology vs. radiology technicians.
Ophthalmology vs. Optometry
Anesthesiology vs. Nurse Anesthetists
Oral Maxillofacial Surgery
Family Practice vs. Nuse Practitioners
Dermatology
Pathology
PM&R vs physical therapists
psychiatry vs psychology

It can be annoying for physicians in these professions in social situations with people who are ignorant of what these specialties are, it can be particularly frustrating when dealing with the "public."

What is most frustrating, is when these other non-MD professions use the ignorance of the public to try to expand their independence and scope of practice beyond what they are trained to do.

 

[fedor]

There are a lot of specialties that most of the public does not really understand what they do, the difference between them and related non-MD professions, or does not consider them "real doctors"

Radiology vs. radiology technicians.
Ophthalmology vs. Optometry
Anesthesiology vs. Nurse Anesthetists
Oral Maxillofacial Surgery
Family Practice vs. Nuse Practitioners
Dermatology

Add psychiatry to that list.

They get no respect -- whether from the lay public or from their peers.

 

[Gunny]

- The CT has replaced the clinical exam, at least in all of the EDs I had the pleasure to cover during residency and fellowship. It is often ordered before anyone (except for the triage nurse) has seen the patient. If you call 'down' to the ED, the person whose signature is on the req wasn't able to give you even the most basic findings from his physical exam (which at times can be helpful for the answer to the question met vs infection vs fungus ball).

That's a shocking amount of completely unnecessary CT's!

 

[fedor]

It may shock you, but physicians are not the only smart people in this world. But you might miss that by spending your life in a dim windowless room.

This dim windowless room you speak so disparagingly of is actually one of the benefits of the field.

 

[fedor]

That's a shocking amount of completely unnecessary CT's!

Shocking from the perspective of the wasted resources and also because of the unnecessary exposure to patients from radiation. I wonder just how many patients a year will get CA because of these scans. The risk to the individual patient is slight, but if you're scanning everyone who walks through the door, in the aggregate the figure will be astounding.

 

[f_w]

> That's a shocking amount of completely unnecessary CT's!

Yep, you got that right.

The jury is still out on the risk posed from small intermittent doses of ionizing radiation. But until we have sound science on this, I think it would be a good idea to disperse as little of it into the population as possible. Unfortunately the realities of healthcare (at least in this country) make this inherently positive goal somewhat difficult to achieve. As long as we and the ED docs talk about entirely different things when we discuss 'quality of care', there is not easy solution to this. (for an ED doc the equation about running a 'good' ED involves mainly the factors of 'throughput' 'length of stay' and 'not getting my a## sued'. Arriving at the correct diagnosis in the largest number of patients with minimal expenditure of halthcare$$$ doesn't figure into their view on the world.)

 

[zzz1]

As far as picking up girls, the radiologist thing isn't as glamorous as saying neurosurgeon, or plastic surgeon, or cardiologist, or whatever. BUT, if you're meeting other professionals, they'll know, and they'll appreciate the fact you want a life outside of medicine, and they know you'll make bank. It hasn't hurt my game in Chicago one bit folks.[/QUOTE]



Just adding on to an admittedly vain topic,


From the ways this topic is presented, is being a radiologist actually some kind of detriment to picking up girls outside of the hospitals or something?

To you single guys in rad, do you have to convince the girls you are a real doctor when you meet them in bars or do they usually know?

seriously, I found it interesting that women outside of medicine would even care about which specialty you are in. Shouldn't just telling them you are a doctor be enough, shouldn't they care more about the status symbols like cars, houses, etc.

Based on my own college experience at a big party school, it wasn't the electrical engineering or premed majors that got the girls. it was the fraternity guys with the new BMW who went to the best parties. So it seems women's typical priorities are on the tangible material "prizes." Why should they care about your speciality?

 

[tigershark]

Just adding on to an admittedly vain topic,


From the ways this topic is presented, is being a radiologist actually some kind of detriment to picking up girls outside of the hospitals or something?

To you single guys in rad, do you have to convince the girls you are a real doctor when you meet them in bars or do they usually know?

seriously, I found it interesting that women outside of medicine would even care about which specialty you are in. Shouldn't just telling them you are a doctor be enough, shouldn't they care more about the status symbols like cars, houses, etc.

Based on my own college experience at a big party school, it wasn't the electrical engineering or premed majors that got the girls. it was the fraternity guys with the new BMW who went to the best parties. So it seems women's typical priorities are on the tangible material "prizes." Why should they care about your speciality?

Just say you're a doctor, thats usually enough to drop the panties, without having to go into the boring details of what particular kind of doctor you are.

I try to avoid the conversation if possible because describing what a radiologist does etc. doesnt really make for good drunk bar conversation.

 

[toofache32]

Just adding on to an admittedly vain topic,


From the ways this topic is presented, is being a radiologist actually some kind of detriment to picking up girls outside of the hospitals or something?

To you single guys in rad, do you have to convince the girls you are a real doctor when you meet them in bars or do they usually know?

seriously, I found it interesting that women outside of medicine would even care about which specialty you are in. Shouldn't just telling them you are a doctor be enough, shouldn't they care more about the status symbols like cars, houses, etc.

Based on my own college experience at a big party school, it wasn't the electrical engineering or premed majors that got the girls. it was the fraternity guys with the new BMW who went to the best parties. So it seems women's typical priorities are on the tangible material "prizes." Why should they care about your speciality?

You gotta be kidding me.