Radiology 2012 applicants

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All that data will come out after the match.. until then it's speculation. And I think eventually we'll see that it's random variance. It has happened before.
 
I suspect applications are down more because of the general ups and downs of personal interests amongst students. While competitive, there are a lot of radiology spots. Think of how many people All it takes is one person at a good chunk of US allo schools to go in another direction and you are down >100 applicants. Add that on top of people who may have been interested, but did not perform as well as they hoped on Step 1 and you can be down quite a few applicants.
 
I think it's normal variance too, my main point is that apps were down a lot this year which is good for applicants. I know like 10-15 people next year at my school doing rads.
 
drizzt3117 said:
I think it's normal variance too, my main point is that apps were down a lot this year which is good for applicants. I know like 10-15 people next year at my school doing rads.
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My school is the opposite. Last year we had zero apply, this year we have 5 (of ~50 ppl)
 
Reports suggest the iPad 3 will be launched on the 16th as well.. That day is simply going to be epic. I wont be able to sleep prob anyway.. so im gonna camp out and get an ipad in the morning then go to my school for the match at noon!
 
drizzt3117 said:
The short answer to your question is yes. Super high volume community programs like Baylor-Dallas and high volume academic programs like Mayo, UTSW, and MIR are great training for PP, although you'd certainly be ready for academics from MIR/Mayo. Stanford is an example of an academic focused program that's less good for PP bc of low volume.
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stanford grads are still a much sought after as pp radiologists despite their low volume seen in training. if you look at the most sought after (salary benefits time off) private practice groups in socal, stanford grads fill many ranks (did somebody say Hoag?). so i think that you will be trained great for an academic career, but dangit, private practice groups will still want you because of your brandname (you may start off reading at a slower pace but im sure once can catch up within 6 months).
 
PokerDoc said:
Reports suggest the iPad 3 will be launched on the 16th as well.. That day is simply going to be epic. I wont be able to sleep prob anyway.. so im gonna camp out and get an ipad in the morning then go to my school for the match at noon!
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Most of my top prelim/TYs give interns an iPad so I'll probably hold off depending on my match.
 
boogah said:
stanford grads are still a much sought after as pp radiologists despite their low volume seen in training. if you look at the most sought after (salary benefits time off) private practice groups in socal, stanford grads fill many ranks (did somebody say Hoag?). so i think that you will be trained great for an academic career, but dangit, private practice groups will still want you because of your brandname (you may start off reading at a slower pace but im sure once can catch up within 6 months).
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There was actually a lot of talk on the interview trail about a lot of PP groups not taking Stanford grads now because they aren't "ready" for PP jobs. I don't know how true that is, but it doesn't factor into my decision making process at all as I'm going into academic IR, so it's one of my top choices. If I were seeking a career in PP diagnostic, I would probably consider programs like MIR/UTSW over Stanford but that's just my opinion.
 
drizzt3117 said:
There was actually a lot of talk on the interview trail about a lot of PP groups not taking Stanford grads now because they aren't "ready" for PP jobs. I don't know how true that is, but it doesn't factor into my decision making process at all as I'm going into academic IR, so it's one of my top choices. If I were seeking a career in PP diagnostic, I would probably consider programs like MIR/UTSW over Stanford but that's just my opinion.
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Can you state a few other options other than MIR/UTSW in the midwest and south/southeast?
 
DrBowtie said:
Most of my top prelim/TYs give interns an iPad so I'll probably hold off depending on my match.
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I plan on getting another one with the book fund.. ebaying it for a profit (yes you can do this) and then recouping my money that way.. I just don't wanna wait till june haha
 
AlexMorph said:
Can you state a few other options other than MIR/UTSW in the midwest and south/southeast?
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2012mdc said:
Mayo, Emory, Iowa, Indiana, UAB, Vandy, Pitt, CCF
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Adding UWisconsin too. And those are just the bigger names.

AlexMorph, I interviewed at probably the most programs in the MW/South this year from the thread and of varying tiers. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
 
drizzt3117 said:
There was actually a lot of talk on the interview trail about a lot of PP groups not taking Stanford grads now because they aren't "ready" for PP jobs. I don't know how true that is, but it doesn't factor into my decision making process at all as I'm going into academic IR, so it's one of my top choices. If I were seeking a career in PP diagnostic, I would probably consider programs like MIR/UTSW over Stanford but that's just my opinion.
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i definitely agree that I have heard that on the road as well but I wonder the actual validity of it. Of the 34 pp radiologists at this competitive group in orange county, 9 (26%) are from stanford. 6 from residency, and 3 from fellowship. 5 of the 6 from residency actually graduated within the past 5 years (2007 and up) meaning they were probably highered from 2009 and up, which is pretty darn recent. I dont know...this doesnt seem to reflect the sentiment that some people are saying. I think I heard this sentiment more from smaller programs or very busy academic programs (that low volume places dont have as great a job outlook). But I think that people just like to tell you what you want to hear. ie, plenty of programs with nonbusy services that I interviewed at spout that they get all the great jobs because of their academic name and that private group interviewers "know that you are competent and will work hard because you went to University of BLah blah blah". remember all the auntminnie discussion of chicago programs? (Rush is better because higher volume=better jobs vs UofC and NW are better because of better name=better jobs) I am beginning to think that everything is all BS and they are just spewing recruitment crap.
 
do we have 10-12 people here interested in starting a SDN rads fantasy baseball league?

(sorry, i just feel like talking about thigns besides the match and radiology right now).
 
drizzt3117 said:
There was actually a lot of talk on the interview trail about a lot of PP groups not taking Stanford grads now because they aren't "ready" for PP jobs. I don't know how true that is, but it doesn't factor into my decision making process at all as I'm going into academic IR, so it's one of my top choices. If I were seeking a career in PP diagnostic, I would probably consider programs like MIR/UTSW over Stanford but that's just my opinion.
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I know that was kind of the case with the group in my hometown. They really just needed anybody, but the few people they got were all from bigger name academia areas and could not keep up with the volume. One of them got better and stayed. The other ended up back in academia. Nothing wrong with either gig. It is just a matter of preference in the end.
 
I would join one, but I'd get my arse handed to me. I obsessed enough over fantasy football lineups to put that on hold, so my life being consumed by fantasy baseball is probably a bad idea. 😛
 
You can pick up with the speed of reading 6 month to one year after you start your practice. However, in the busy pp environment you barely can obtain imaging skills that you had to learn during your residency.
Some of these opinion are biased. Nothing is comparable to being trained in a tertiraty academic center with diversity of cases and subspecilaty world renown attendings. You will figure it out later in your practice. In your future pp, when the first case of challenging pancreatic tumor comes on the list, you start to admire your residency faculty who was an expert in pancreatic tumors and teached you most details. Clinicians will find out in a short time that you are the one and they will not even give a **** about your FAST colleagues.

For many reasons a lot of BS against academic centers go around. Some of these BS:
1- You can not get good education because fellows do the work and you are a bystander.
2- You are not well trained because the volume is not high.
3- You will not find a job because pp groups p[refer community trained radiologists.
4- You are too much focused on the tough cases that you lose the understanding of bread and butter radiology.
5- People are arrogant. These places are full of nerds.
6- Attendings do not care about you as much as community programs.
7- residents are not happy, . ..
....

All of these are BS. These are some self serving rationalizations.

If you think your training is not optimum or you will have hard time finding a job, because you went to stanford or Upenn you are totally insane. Forgetting about all the advantages just because you think your speed will be less than others is insane. As I said it can be obtained in less than 6 months.
 
Well yea, nobody is speaking in binary terms with this stuff. Of course one can learn to get the speed up and I don't think anybody would outright say they wouldn't pick someone from those places, but it is also naive to think being slower in private practice doesn't impact decisions on partnership and retention. Six months is a very long time to have the others in your group covering your backlog. At the same time, a good group understands a methodical approach and appreciates continuous research and discussions on topics. If you are so painfully slow that the others have to pick up your slack, then you may not have 6 months to prove yourself (depending on your contract).

It is a balancing act and the take home message is just to find a program that best jives with your personality and career goals rather than being a rankings consumer reports type.
 
Your post does not make sense to me.
First of all, speed even in pp is equal to less quality. The last thing you need in residency is push for speed.
My speed when I was a first year resident was more than now (I am a senior resident), as I did not pay attention to many stuff that I had to.
You should not care about speed at least in the first 2 years of your residency. In your senior years you will learn how to do it. And you don't need to do pp for that. Many academic fellowships offer internal moonlighting which is also very busy. You can learn it.
One thing that makes speed lower in academic places is the complexity of cases . You will see a Crohn's with history of 8 surgeries, who had a whipple and also has history of PSC. On top of that she has a lymphoma s/p chemotherapy and radiation which was complicated by a hydronephrosis. It is a whole lot different from your average community hospital ER CT which is a 28 year old gal with at most an uncomplicated appendicitis. But my point is after seeing that first case for 5 times, you are more than prepared to read any CT with not hesitation.

And it is very interesting to me that a medical student who can not even find anatomic structures on an abdomical CT, recommends others about the balance between quality and speed. The more I read forums the more I find useless posts.
 
The gist of it is that I do know blue chip academic people who were let go from a group because they were too slow. I was sitting in on the meeting when the decision was made. It may be an outlier, but it does happen. It was never poor fund of knowledge that was the issue in those cases.

I'm definitely not saying those programs are inferior and that one is destined to be crap in PP because of it. I'd still put my money on those people doing a great job. There may very well be a personality component to the people who were let go. For better or worse, there are groups that will let you go if you can't handle the quantity. Personally, I think it has more potential to be a bad business decision, but we aren't exactly known for our great business skills.
 
Some people can not keep up with the volume. It does not have anything to do with their training.
If you did not have enough interviews to secure an academic position, no problem for you. You have found very good way to justify it.
There are groups that kick you out if you can not cover the volume and there are many of them. BUT there are also lawyers out there who will take you to court if you can not give at least the minimum required quality.

The bottom line: Go to the best academic place that you can go, with some consideration of location and family/friends network. Do not give a crap about the BS people say on this forum.
 
Is there any clue in the did i match email as to whether you matched a categorical or prelim + advanced?

I just got a 'you matched" I was wondering if I would have gotten two separate notifications for each spot or if theres no giveaway in this email
 
Congrats to everyone who matched.

For those who didn't, good luck with SOAP.

I know you're probably preoccupied right now, but when you do have time I'm sure we're all curious how many radiology spots went vacant this year - as many as last year?

I know you can't share the list, but the number of slots available would be helpful for gauging how competitive this year really was.
 
PokerDoc said:
Is there any clue in the did i match email as to whether you matched a categorical or prelim + advanced?

I just got a 'you matched" I was wondering if I would have gotten two separate notifications for each spot or if theres no giveaway in this email
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Nope - I was originally thinking the same thing, but it just tells you if you're fully matched.
 
My r3 looks a little different...

It said, congratulations, you matched...LIKE A BOSS.
 
Yeah, checked the report and it is 75 PGY2 + 11 PGY1.

Yikes, must be a lot of unhappy PDs out there.
 
The # of openings makes me happy and sad. Happy that it means competition was down and I might slide up my list. Sad for the doom and gloomers that are going to come out and ruin my happy day.
 
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DrBowtie said:
The # of openings makes me happy and sad. Happy for my chances. Sad for the doom and gloomers that are going to come out and ruin my day.
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Good luck Dr. Bowtie - wouldn't hve expected you to be in SOAP so I'm sure you'll end up somewhere good. Looking at those Southern numbers I'm guessing some of the good programs didn't fill (only ~90% of the spots were taken).
 
johnnydrama said:
Good luck Dr. Bowtie - wouldn't hve expected you to be in SOAP so I'm sure you'll end up somewhere good. Looking at those Southern numbers I'm guessing some of the good programs didn't fill (only ~90% of the spots were taken).
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Oh...Sorry to mislead. I matched. I meant matching higher than I normally would due to decreased competition.
 
1) Congrats all - We're going to be radiologists!

2) 86 unfilled spots - we'll have to wait and see which programs didn't fill, but I suspect this # is a product of the decreased applicant pool this year, in combination with PDs interviewing many of the same candidates. Just on first glance, it looks like PDs didn't account for the decreased #'s and got hosed.

#secretly hoping one of the programs that rejected me went unfilled haha just kidding.
 
The 11 categorical spots may be filled by advanced people replacing them.

jahbrony said:
1) Congrats all - We're going to be radiologists!

2) 86 unfilled spots - we'll have to wait and see which programs didn't fill, but I suspect this # is a product of the decreased applicant pool this year, in combination with PDs interviewing many of the same candidates. Just on first glance, it looks like PDs didn't account for the decreased #'s and got hosed.

#secretly hoping one of the programs that rejected me went unfilled haha just kidding.
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I dont think pd's didn't account for decreased applicants. If there were only 1000 applicants for 1100 spots, it makes sense that there are unfilled spots. We won't know until we see how many applicants went unmatched but it looks like there just aren't as many applicants anymore
 
cowme said:
I dont think pd's didn't account for decreased applicants. If there were only 1000 applicants for 1100 spots, it makes sense that there are unfilled spots. We won't know until we see how many applicants went unmatched but it looks like there just aren't as many applicants anymore
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Heard last year was one of the bigger years...
 
cowme said:
I dont think pd's didn't account for decreased applicants. If there were only 1000 applicants for 1100 spots, it makes sense that there are unfilled spots. We won't know until we see how many applicants went unmatched but it looks like there just aren't as many applicants anymore
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I'm sure there were more applicants than spots, just not more US senior applicants than spots.

Anyone hear of anyone who didn't match yet? Really curious if there were surprises in the unfilled program list.
 
johnnydrama said:
I'm sure there were more applicants than spots, just not more US senior applicants than spots.

Anyone hear of anyone who didn't match yet? Really curious if there were surprises in the unfilled program list.
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Either the bottom tier programs didn't match anyone and that is the bulk of the spots, or its a wide variety of programs who didn't match 1-2 spots. Considering the quality of programs who didn't fill last year, I'd guess we'll be pretty surprised to see who had spots open. They'll fill in the scramble. Sadly it will probably be with people who didn't match Ortho, ENT, etc.
 
xx216xx said:
Why is this a sad thing? I have a friend who switched from rads to ortho at the end of 3rd year who unfortunately didn't match even though he has great stats, 250/260 and all H's, and I hope he switches back and finds a kick ass rads spot because he deserves it. I think anyone who had a serious shot at ortho, ent, plastics, rad onc and the like is surely qualified for radiology and I'd welcome them.
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Sure they're qualified, but I don't want our field to be anyone's backup
 
I know some very high caliber applicants at my school who did not match ortho this year. I think the same is true for other competitive advanced specialties.

I know of one program that did not fill a single spot this year from the match and they have over 5 spots. I can only infer their strategy is to pick up the good apples in the scramble, especially from other fields like ortho, derm, rad onc, etc which have very few or no scramble spots.

It's a valid strategy.
 
DrBowtie said:
Sure they're qualified, but I don't want our field to be anyone's backup
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I'd rather have the bottom of the barrel from Ortho/ENT/etc than start scooping up people who are completely unqualified.

That said, I have no respect for people who tried to get into dermatology.
 
DrBowtie said:
Sure they're qualified, but I don't want our field to be anyone's backup
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There is a huge range of programs in radiology. The first type is in California or otherwise a top tier academic program. These remain extremely competitive.

Then there are community programs in the middle of the country. These are among the least competitive spots in the entire match as far as US graduates are concerned.

These places would be lucky to get people who didn't match derm, ortho etc in the scramble. Marginal derm/radonc/ortho applicants >> marginal radiology applicants.
 
johnnydrama said:
I'd rather have the bottom of the barrel from Ortho/ENT/etc than start scooping up people who are completely unqualified.

That said, I have no respect for people who tried to get into dermatology.
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I would hesitate to say bottom of the barrel.

Ortho for instance is notorious for being a boys club. There are a lot of qualified applicants who don't get in because they didn't fit the personality mold the residencies were looking for. Radiology is more welcoming of different types of people I think.
 
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