Radiology vs Dentistry

[b333b]

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Reads these words carefully. They are backed with experience and hindsight.

I initially applied to medical school with dental school as back up. I did not get into medical school, but managed to get into a top (Ivy League) dental school. I went for a semester, but dropped out because I was not happy there, having been set on getting an MD, and becoming a surgeon (I know about the OMF route but I thought it was a gamble). It took me a few years to get into medical school after a few years of research. Medical school was tough for me. I did not do so well on the steps. After having done 2 years of general surgery residency, this is what I have to say.

There is not a day go by now that I wished that I stuck with dentistry. All that nonsense about DDS vs MD? Guess what? In the real world, nobody, except the few, really care if you are an MD or DDS. They call you Dr.X. I think a lot of the "inferior" perception comes from dentists or premeds themselves. As far as I'm concern, I honestly treat my dental colleagues with the same respect, because I realize that dentistry is really another subspecialty of medicine, pretty benign and high pay like dermatology.

As far as women go? I think women are less impressed with the difference between DDS and MD's, but more with who you are. I remembered that I got hit on a lot as a general surgery resident. But then I realized that it was because I got this artificial ego boost from being a surgical resident. But you know what? When I really look back, it really did not matter if I told them I was a surgeon, or a dentist, and that is the truth.

Would I do this again had I know about the difficult path and the constant anxiety? I would say no. But then if I went to dental school and finished, would I look longingly at the MD side of the fence? Probably, but at least my life would have been started earlier with better payoff.

Medicine is in trouble in terms of the financial reward, being so tied up to the governmental policies and budget. Having done two years of general surgery so far, I realized ironically that I would definitely enjoy dentistry. It is sooo much less stress, and the novelty of "life and death" wears off pretty quickly when your pager goes off at 3 AM with someone in the ER with an acute abdomen.

For those of you sitting on the fence, think real hard. I had a chat with an internal medicine colleague who got a cardiology fellowship. He also went to dental school for a year and dropped out. He was glad he did. Everyone is different.

1) "top" dental school has questionable meaning. i am pretty certain that i could not get into ivy dental schools(my gpa is low and no ec's). but if the goal is to become a general dentist, then i find schools with most clinical experience and best geographical location(skiing, beach, etc) to be more suitable.
2) i agree women dont care dds or md as long as you're successful. i.e. a 35yo med student or a bitter, poor fp doesnt cut it.
3) perhaps if you had become a dentist instead you would always feel envious that you never got to experience any of those surgeries?

 

[b333b]

😆

LOL, you're what, 2-3 years past the earliest possible age to apply to medical school? You're like a decade ahead of me.

nope. i graduated h.s. at 16 1/2 but since then i've wasted way too many years. if i'm a decade ahead of you, then i feel sorry for you.

 

[HMSBeagle]

For the first time I agree with you Apache. With any job you can invest. Dentistry is not unique in those terms. I've seen more struggling dentists than physicians (non primary care) because basically there are a lot of dentists. Markets are saturated.

 

[medgator]

General surgery SUCKS. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

👍

 

[Mariah246]

and general dentist gets to flirt with his patients. u know a lot of new dentists are 25yo and they have 18yo patients dressing up to come get their teeth checked.

Troll much?

 

[Asp]

Dentistry is a middle-class profession. Medicine is solidly upper-middle class (excepting some primary care docs who work ****ty hours for low pay and some surgeons for extreme crassness and cultural provinciality). All this according to Paul Fussell.

 

[psychout]

ApacheIndian-

What do you think about psych?

I guess I am in the unusual position of switching from anes to psych. On the surface it looks like a terrible mistake financially, but after talking to a few psych attgs in the area where I will do residency (southwest us), it appears they do okay. More importantly, I find the work fun, and the lifestyle during residency and as an attg really tough to beat.

For a good 30-40 hours of clinical work it is not hard to make 200k. Throw in a call or two a week and you can push it up to 250-300k. Do a fellowship in child and you can go to 350, maybe higher if you have business sense. I have anecdotally heard reports of psychs making upwards of 500k, but they own their own practice and have NPs, psychologists, etc working under them.

Anes starts at 300-400 and can go to 500 maybe 600 in my area. But it can be quite stressful. Also to get that kind of money you got to work real hard (60-65 hrs in the OR, with tough calls).

Why isn't psych one of the specialties you suggest students to look into?

In the book you quote from often (it's the Medical student's survival guide, by polk...right?) psych is described as a decent specialty for those who value lifestyle. As of now most psychs in practice don't do too shabby financially too.

 

[Mariah246]

Do a fellowship in child and you can go to 350, maybe higher if you have business sense.

If you're good, there's probably no upper limit. Plenty of rich, spoiled kids who need "help". 😛

 

[hans19]

If you're good, there's probably no upper limit. Plenty of rich, spoiled kids who need "help". 😛

ADD, eating disorders, spoiled rich kids, if you call that 'fun' then more power to you. Few have the patience to deal with them.

Hans to anorexic girl: "come on kid, just eat some sandwiches or something... You know why guys wont go out with you, its not cuz you're too fat, its probably because you're too d--- skinny... and you're annoying! Oops, sorry I didn't mean that. 😳

Hans to antisocial 4 year old (well thats not what its called in kids) "Repeat after me, we do not mutilate puppies. Oh and one other thing-- matches are for grown ups, not for setting fires to houses..." 😱

Hans thinking to self while ADD hellion runs around in circles screaming at the top of his lungs- "Why isn't ketamine listed in the kiddy pharmacopeia" 😡 "Oh wait thats for tranquilizing wild animals..."

I would never make it in child psych.

 

[CherokeeIndian]

ApacheIndian-

What do you think about psych?

I guess I am in the unusual position of switching from anes to psych. On the surface it looks like a terrible mistake financially, but after talking to a few psych attgs in the area where I will do residency (southwest us), it appears they do okay. More importantly, I find the work fun, and the lifestyle during residency and as an attg really tough to beat.

For a good 30-40 hours of clinical work it is not hard to make 200k. Throw in a call or two a week and you can push it up to 250-300k. Do a fellowship in child and you can go to 350, maybe higher if you have business sense. I have anecdotally heard reports of psychs making upwards of 500k, but they own their own practice and have NPs, psychologists, etc working under them.

Anes starts at 300-400 and can go to 500 maybe 600 in my area. But it can be quite stressful. Also to get that kind of money you got to work real hard (60-65 hrs in the OR, with tough calls).

Why isn't psych one of the specialties you suggest students to look into?

In the book you quote from often (it's the Medical student's survival guide, by polk...right?) psych is described as a decent specialty for those who value lifestyle. As of now most psychs in practice don't do too shabby financially too.

While it is true that it is possible to have a good lifestyle in psych, income will suffer. There are people out there in psych who make what you state, but it is by far not the norm. The avg psych will make 120-140k out of residency, 160-180k once they get established, and 180-200k after doing child- assuming the avg psych works 40 hrs/week. If you want to work 80 hrs/ wk, then you can increase these somewhat. If you get lucky and do well, you can push $400k, but 400k is not the avg like it is in radiology. A lucky radiologist can push 1 million plus working 60-80 hrs. This is why pych is not one of the most competitive specialties. The other main reason is that psych is not really science based. Most of the people who go into medicine are not interested in voodoo, touchy-feely medicine. By and large, the people who go into psych are those that hated med school, were terrible at science, and want a good lifestyle. If you were to play the odds, you would have done MUCH, MUCH better $/hour in anesthesiology or radiology, but obviously this would not have been worth it if you like psych >>>>>>> much more than these.

 

[hans19]

If you are in it for the money, Polk didn't have too many nice things to say about psychiatrists, other than the nice lifestyle-- IIRC he called psychiatrists 'junior yuppies.'

 

[Mariah246]

ADD, eating disorders, spoiled rich kids, if you call that 'fun' then more power to you. Few have the patience to deal with them.

Hans to anorexic girl: "come on kid, just eat some sandwiches or something... You know why guys wont go out with you, its not cuz you're too fat, its probably because you're too d--- skinny... and you're annoying! Oops, sorry I didn't mean that. 😳

Hans to antisocial 4 year old (well thats not what its called in kids) "Repeat after me, we do not mutilate puppies. Oh and one other thing-- matches are for grown ups, not for setting fires to houses..." 😱

Hans thinking to self while ADD hellion runs around in circles screaming at the top of his lungs- "Why isn't ketamine listed in the kiddy pharmacopeia" 😡 "Oh wait thats for tranquilizing wild animals..."

I would never make it in child psych.

hahahahaha

I completely agree

but those who are interested in psych probably look at it as an exciting challenge

 

[psychout]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I still think you all are low-balling psych, (in my heavily biased opinion, of course), but I can see how rads/anesthesiology would do better in most cases. But you all honestly feel most psychs make 150k? Many of the ads I see are for at least 180-190 starting. I stand by my salaries in child psych....in LA/AL/TX/GA i think it would be hard not to find a child psych who works 40-50 hrs, not making at least 300k.

Also in general, call/hours worked in psych are much less stressful than gas. Maybe rads too? It looks like call in rads is not that enjoyable (from what the posters on this forum describe).

While I did like science, I didn't really enjoy med school. I did do okay (top quarter of class, above average on boards, USMD), at least enough to get in a pretty good gas program. I guess I didn't really like much of anything outside of gas and psych.

Rads was something I briefly considered, but I HATE memorizing lists and lists of dx. That is something I really admire in some people....the fact that they can memorize stuff super quick....I imagine in order to succeed in rads (and pass THREE BOARDS!) you have to read and retain tons of material fairly quickly. I mean I looked through dahnert's review (I think that's how you spell it) and it looked awful....

Anyway, you all have fun making that money. 🙂 If 500-600k is readily available to most rads, I would be happy (seriously) getting to about 65% of that amount.

 

[biocmp]

I imagine in order to succeed in rads (and pass THREE BOARDS!) you have to read and retain tons of material fairly quickly

Is this true? I am not a read it once kind of guy. I'm interested in what others have to say about this. I am an extremely visual person, and while I haven't chosen a professional path, Rads looks interesting. (yes, Apache, I've succumb to your jedi mind tricks) ( and thank you hans, for being the ying to apache's yang)

First, I do like technology (if that matters), I'm visual, and I enjoy figuring things out (I actually enjoyed organic chemistry), but I am not extremely fast at learning things. I've met students who can read something once and the information sticks. Is this an important ability in rads?

 

[hans19]

I've met students who can read something once and the information sticks. Is this an important ability in rads?

Of course it would help. But if you can memorize minutiae to do well in medical school on Step I, there's no reason you couldn't do it for the radiology boards.

 

[mumiitroll]

hey guys, i originally made this thread. i havent read it all over (but i remember the substance of the posts). so to make an update, ive decided to go after med schools, i did well on mcat(well over 35), and i predict that due to my low gpa, i will barely, but get accepted somewhere.
so i still think that radiology provides the best opportunities in a civilian practice right now. though i think surgery is cool too. but whatever i find more interesting, thats something i might decide in ms3, right. but my thread is really all about lifestyle. So in usa i think there is only 1 place i'd like to live, that is on Lake Tahoe. You can ski there and you can swim, what else could you ask for?
So i wanted to ask, can a radiologist right now get a job right there? I mean I could settle for a job in Reno and commuting there from my house on the lake, but it wouldnt be ideal. But I wonder if even counting on a good job in such a small-city as Reno is too optimistic? Or are doctors only able to narrow down their job search at state level (i.e. job in california vs new york)?

And just recently i've come up with an alternate career path. If i do EM, it's only a 3yr residency and then i can get a job as a ship doctor. It obviously doesnt pay as much. Ive searched a lot and many of their answers about salaries and benefits are ambiguous: http://www.shipsdoctors.com/faq.asp but i think that $100k/yr tax-free and 4months vacation/yr is very realistic. (of course as a radiologist you could do teleradiology out of some resort and still make more?). Based on what i read elsewhere http://www.adventuremedics.com/magazine/diaries/confesions-of-a-cruise-ship-doctor <-the dr can work as little as 4hrs/day. So he could potentially have an endless vacation or even run a consulting business from his ship. It seems that you can get a girlfriend to join you on a cruise, if not for free, for a modest price. i know not many women would enjoy living on a ship year round, but most would be very glad to go on cruises occasionally.

A house on lake tahoe is not cheap. And with increasing real estate and decreasing pay for radiologists, i wonder if i could afford to buy one 10-15yrs from now? On the other hand as a ship dr (being 8months at sea), i could buy a modest house in greece or st. martin or latvia. those places are also very exotic. And i wonder if it might be reasonable to expect to make much outside income based on all the free time that i would enjoy as a ship dr. i mean it's very rare for someone to make $100k/yr and still have enough free time to pursue a different occupation or hobby fulltime.

of course i may be wrong about everything and it's well known that all other things equal, radiologists make more $$ and get much more vacation than EM physicians. And it seems only more likely that in the future 10-20yrs it will not be difficult to get a teleradiology position out of greece or st. martin that pays a good fraction of a traditional job. of course you would still have to work(i find it difficult to do any serious work on a computer when there are so many things to distract me). while a ship dr can just chill out. and when you see a patient in person, you cant ignore him.

 

[mumiitroll]

Lemme guess -- you're a premed or an MS1 or MS2? Am I right or am I right? Don't worry little one, you'll be potty trained one day and understand grown up conversation -- drop me a PM in a few years and I'll be happy to explain to you how the stork is actually fictious, and where babies really come from.

Anybody who even compares dentistry to radiology is either 1) young, naive, and inexperienced, 2) on crack, or 3) just plain stupid and beyond help. It's an insult that you'd even mention dentristry in the same breath as radiology. Listen carefully son:
1) Radiologists can earn 5 times as much as dentists can. In one year a radiologist will have caught up to what the dentist accrued by having entered the job force a few years earlier. Your "making more money by investing in other businesses" argument is the one cogent point you make, but that could be said about any number of fields with a favorable ratio of years of training to starting salary -- it is by no means specific to dentistry.
2) Radiologists can work from home and never get their hands dirty, much less indulge in the [what is in my opinion] the demeaning task of fiddling around in people's bacteria-infested mouths.
3) Like it or not, admit it or not. There is a difference b/w an MD and a DDS. If you deny that you're not clued in to society.
4) Flirting with patients? Are you serious? If that's how you have to pick up chicks then you should just keep failing in college and remain the head of your frat, I'll call you Booger.
5) General surgery SUCKS. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

peace

1) is blatantly false. good dentists generally earn $300k/yr, radiologists are lucky to make twice that.
2) i'd like to learn more about working from home. i mean can you make it a career, as in make a permanent home in st. martin and get paid american $$?
3) i ultimately picked medicine because i have not decided if i am into surgery or primary care or neither(radiology). i consider dentistry to be surgery and i am not ready for such commitment. but if i see a dentist or a carpenter with a $1million income, i dont care about his degree, he still gets better women than me.
4) flirting with patients is cool, but i think it's more important to be good at your job. if you're a dentist who cant fill in a good cavity, you'll get nowhere.
5) maybe.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

hey guys, i originally made this thread. i havent read it all over (but i remember the substance of the posts). so to make an update, ive decided to go after med schools, i did well on mcat(well over 35), and i predict that due to my low gpa, i will barely, but get accepted somewhere.
so i still think that radiology provides the best opportunities in a civilian practice right now. though i think surgery is cool too. but whatever i find more interesting, thats something i might decide in ms3, right. but my thread is really all about lifestyle. So in usa i think there is only 1 place i'd like to live, that is on Lake Tahoe. You can ski there and you can swim, what else could you ask for?
So i wanted to ask, can a radiologist right now get a job right there? I mean I could settle for a job in Reno and commuting there from my house on the lake, but it wouldnt be ideal. But I wonder if even counting on a good job in such a small-city as Reno is too optimistic? Or are doctors only able to narrow down their job search at state level (i.e. job in california vs new york)?

And just recently i've come up with an alternate career path. If i do EM, it's only a 3yr residency and then i can get a job as a ship doctor. It obviously doesnt pay as much. Ive searched a lot and many of their answers about salaries and benefits are ambiguous: http://www.shipsdoctors.com/faq.asp but i think that $100k/yr tax-free and 4months vacation/yr is very realistic. (of course as a radiologist you could do teleradiology out of some resort and still make more?). Based on what i read elsewhere http://www.adventuremedics.com/magazine/diaries/confesions-of-a-cruise-ship-doctor <-the dr can work as little as 4hrs/day. So he could potentially have an endless vacation or even run a consulting business from his ship. It seems that you can get a girlfriend to join you on a cruise, if not for free, for a modest price. i know not many women would enjoy living on a ship year round, but most would be very glad to go on cruises occasionally.

A house on lake tahoe is not cheap. And with increasing real estate and decreasing pay for radiologists, i wonder if i could afford to buy one 10-15yrs from now? On the other hand as a ship dr (being 8months at sea), i could buy a modest house in greece or st. martin or latvia. those places are also very exotic. And i wonder if it might be reasonable to expect to make much outside income based on all the free time that i would enjoy as a ship dr. i mean it's very rare for someone to make $100k/yr and still have enough free time to pursue a different occupation or hobby fulltime.

of course i may be wrong about everything and it's well known that all other things equal, radiologists make more $$ and get much more vacation than EM physicians. And it seems only more likely that in the future 10-20yrs it will not be difficult to get a teleradiology position out of greece or st. martin that pays a good fraction of a traditional job. of course you would still have to work(i find it difficult to do any serious work on a computer when there are so many things to distract me). while a ship dr can just chill out. and when you see a patient in person, you cant ignore him.

I give this post a 6 out of 10 on the troll meter.

And you admit being the now banned OP?

That's a -2 technical deduction.

4/10, pending the score from the Russian judge.

 

[DwightKShrute]

1) is blatantly false. good dentists generally earn $300k/yr, radiologists are lucky to make twice that.
2) i'd like to learn more about working from home. i mean can you make it a career, as in make a permanent home in st. martin and get paid american $$?
3) i ultimately picked medicine because i have not decided if i am into surgery or primary care or neither(radiology). i consider dentistry to be surgery and i am not ready for such commitment. but if i see a dentist or a carpenter with a $1million income, i dont care about his degree, he still gets better women than me.
4) flirting with patients is cool, but i think it's more important to be good at your job. if you're a dentist who cant fill in a good cavity, you'll get nowhere.
5) maybe.

False.

In the words of the great Michael Scott, "Don't be an idiot."

 

[zxc1234]

Lemme guess -- you're a premed or an MS1 or MS2? Am I right or am I right? Don't worry little one, you'll be potty trained one day and understand grown up conversation -- drop me a PM in a few years and I'll be happy to explain to you how the stork is actually fictious, and where babies really come from.

Anybody who even compares dentistry to radiology is either 1) young, naive, and inexperienced, 2) on crack, or 3) just plain stupid and beyond help. It's an insult that you'd even mention dentristry in the same breath as radiology. Listen carefully son:
1) Radiologists can earn 5 times as much as dentists can. In one year a radiologist will have caught up to what the dentist accrued by having entered the job force a few years earlier. Your "making more money by investing in other businesses" argument is the one cogent point you make, but that could be said about any number of fields with a favorable ratio of years of training to starting salary -- it is by no means specific to dentistry.
2) Radiologists can work from home and never get their hands dirty, much less indulge in the [what is in my opinion] the demeaning task of fiddling around in people's bacteria-infested mouths.
3) Like it or not, admit it or not. There is a difference b/w an MD and a DDS. If you deny that you're not clued in to society.
4) Flirting with patients? Are you serious? If that's how you have to pick up chicks then you should just keep failing in college and remain the head of your frat, I'll call you Booger.
5) General surgery SUCKS. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

peace

Maybe you are number 1-3 if you picked radiology over malpractice law. These lawyers make 10x more than you and your dentist combined. They sue both of your asses like crazy on top of that. They go to school in less time. They get paid more per hour. They get more hot chicks. Damn, John Edward is a smart bastard.👎
The point is not to brag about how your profession is better than others are. You know that there are other professions that make more money and have better lifestyle than you. They don't have to school for so f#cking long and they could make 10x as much.
You made it sound like you went to medical school for $500,000 a year and you can become a lawyer, real estate broker, investment banker, etc and make that much or more.

 

[-Goose-]

4) one advantage of m.d. that you failed to mention: if during dental school or soon after i decide that i am not good at dentistry i kind of half to kill myself? .

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

 

[bananamed]

4) one advantage of m.d. that you failed to mention: if during dental school or soon after i decide that i am not good at dentistry i kind of half to kill myself?

😕

What is up with the question mark?

Of course you have to kill yourself. That's why all dental schools are built right next to bridges. Where else are you going to put all the bad dentists?

True story.