Random Thought on Elections: Having a Choice

[PerolaNegra]

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Yes, a lot can happen in four years. Things that could affect the future for years even beyond those four years. But, when its all said and done, after those four years you despised/loved your president, you have a choice. A choice, influence in the poltical system to rid of incompetant and/or corrupt political figures. It fascinates me a lot because this cannot be said for a lot of places in other parts of the world.

That was just a random thought I had. And, maybe very obvious to you all. But, seeing everyone so worked up about the election had me thinking...come four years, you have a chance to change it up all over again. There is something so beautiful (for lack of a better word) about that.

 

[deleted50478]

Yes, a lot can happen in four years. Things that could affect the future for years even beyond those four years. But, when its all said and done, after those four years you despised/loved your president, you have a choice. A choice, influence in the poltical system to rid of incompetant and/or corrupt political figures. It fascinates me a lot because this cannot be said for a lot of places in other parts of the world.

That was just a random thought I had. And, maybe very obvious to you all. But, seeing everyone so worked up about the election had me thinking...come four years, you have a chance to change it up all over again. There is something so beautiful (for lack of a better word) about that.

Sure you theoretically have a choice, but most voters decisions are made with virtually no knowledge or understanding of the issues or candidates positions. With limited availability of information, limited understanding of available information, and limited effect of any single vote; The reasonable intelligent and informed voters are completely overwhelmed by the ignorant voters who believe the biased and/or completely false information they've been fed. Just listen to people talk at work, the grocery store, lines everywhere, it's pathetic what people say, on both sides.

The amount of campaign contributions Obama accepted put another nail in the coffin of our representative government. 30 minutes of prime time! Why not just hold our eyes open and show us hours of propaganda kinda like in A Clockwork Orange!

We have two of the most corrupt representatives in congress where I live: Representative Jefferson who may win based entirely on racist voting and racist endorsements from our racist mayor and preachers (much like Obama's presumably); and Senator Landrieu who is just regular old sell-out for campaign donations corrupt. I'm glad we have a choice, and I'm glad we have a chance to get rid of corruption, but money goes to the corrupt and can change the voters minds, especially the average unsophisticated voter. A reasonable, informed person could chose McCain or Obama, but no one could reasonably choose Jefferson!

Campaign finance needs to be reformed fast!

 

[Mman]

YAY! I got to vote!!! My vote counts!!!! (or not)

With our electoral college system for presidential races, I will be beyond shocked if any state has a race decided by 1 vote or even 100 votes. With that in mind, my vote doesn't count. It's essentially meaningless. It makes people feel good about themselves and how they get to change government.

 

[Bertelman]

Sure you theoretically have a choice, but most voters decisions are made with virtually no knowledge or understanding of the issues or candidates positions. With limited availability of information, limited understanding of available information, and limited effect of any single vote; The reasonable intelligent and informed voters are completely overwhelmed by the ignorant voters who believe the biased and/or completely false information they've been fed. Just listen to people talk at work, the grocery store, lines everywhere, it's pathetic what people say, on both sides.

The amount of campaign contributions Obama accepted put another nail in the coffin of our representative government. 30 minutes of prime time! Why not just hold our eyes open and show us hours of propaganda kinda like in A Clockwork Orange!

We have two of the most corrupt representatives in congress where I live: Representative Jefferson who may win based entirely on racist voting and racist endorsements from our racist mayor and preachers (much like Obama's presumably); and Senator Landrieu who is just regular old sell-out for campaign donations corrupt. I'm glad we have a choice, and I'm glad we have a chance to get rid of corruption, but money goes to the corrupt and can change the voters minds, especially the average unsophisticated voter. A reasonable, informed person could chose McCain or Obama, but no one could reasonably choose Jefferson!

Campaign finance needs to be reformed fast!

Thanks Debbie Downer.

Wah Wah Wah 🙁

 

[Lonestar]

Dear liberals,

congratulations on your victory. Mr. Obama will be our next president. Best of luck!!

 

[Bertelman]

Dear liberals,

congratulations on your victory. Mr. Obama will be our next president. Best of luck!!

I'm not sure what you have been watching all night, but liberals didn't elect Obama. Undecided/unaligned voters elected Obama. Heck, quite a few Republicans helped elect Obama.

People brag about McCain "crossing the aisle", being non-partisan, but you spew the same rhetorical shit he condemns. I know it pains you to have him elected. You misjudged the country's hopes and goals. A little grace and respect at this time is usually appropriate. Instead you chose the low road, which is why most people in this country are sick of the republican leadership we've had the last 8 years. Ditto for McCain's campaign.

 

[deleted50478]

Sure you theoretically have a choice, but most voters decisions are made with virtually no knowledge or understanding of the issues or candidates positions. With limited availability of information, limited understanding of available information, and limited effect of any single vote; The reasonable intelligent and informed voters are completely overwhelmed by the ignorant voters who believe the biased and/or completely false information they've been fed. Just listen to people talk at work, the grocery store, lines everywhere, it's pathetic what people say, on both sides.

The amount of campaign contributions Obama accepted put another nail in the coffin of our representative government. 30 minutes of prime time! Why not just hold our eyes open and show us hours of propaganda kinda like in A Clockwork Orange!

We have two of the most corrupt representatives in congress where I live: Representative Jefferson who may win based entirely on racist voting and racist endorsements from our racist mayor and preachers (much like Obama's presumably); and Senator Landrieu who is just regular old sell-out for campaign donations corrupt. I'm glad we have a choice, and I'm glad we have a chance to get rid of corruption, but money goes to the corrupt and can change the voters minds, especially the average unsophisticated voter. A reasonable, informed person could chose McCain or Obama, but no one could reasonably choose Jefferson!

Campaign finance needs to be reformed fast!

Congressman William Jefferson Indicted on Bribery Charges
Tuesday, June 05, 2007 AP

WASHINGTON — A federal grand jury on Monday indicted Louisiana Democratic Rep. William Jefferson on 16 charges relating to a long-running investigation into bribery, racketeering, obstruction of justice and money laundering.

Calling it a "broad range of serious crimes," federal prosecutors called the case one about "greed, power and arrogance."

"The 16-count indictment alleges a pervasive pattern of self dealings, bribery and corruption by Mr. Jefferson, in violation of his oath of office, of his duty to the United States Congress in which he served, and of the duty to the citizens of the United States," said Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Jefferson got money from Moyo, feds testify
by Paul Rioux, The Times-Picayune
Friday October 17, 2008, 10:07 PM

Twice-convicted bond broker Gwendolyn Moyo funneled $20,000 in illegal proceeds to U.S. Rep. William Jefferson last year and threw him a lavish party in a private suite at a Los Angeles Lakers game, according to testimony in Moyo's federal fraud trial Friday as prosecutors rested their case.

Ministers back U.S. Rep. William Jefferson for Congress
by Michelle Krupa, The Times-Picayune
Monday October 13, 2008, 11:36 AM


ELIOT KAMENITZ / THE TIMES-PICAYUNE
U.S. Congressman William Jefferson holds a press conference at the Fine Arts Center at 1733 Constantinople St. where a group of African-American ministers gave him support for his re-election bid, Monday, October 13, 2008.
More than two dozen influential African-American pastors stood shoulder to shoulder Monday morning with embattled U.S. Rep. William Jefferson and pledged their support for the congressman's campaign to win a 10th term as he continues to face a federal indictment on charges of bribery and corruption.


Rep. William Jefferson's trial likely to be delayed
by Jonathan Tilove, The Times-Picayune
Friday October 10, 2008, 11:03 AM

ALEXANDRIA, VA. -- A federal judge today said that a Dec. 2 trial date for Rep. William Jefferson is unlikely, pending an appeals court ruling.

Results show voters keep the faith in Congressman William Jefferson
even his staunchest enemies marvel that Jefferson, whose trial on 16 federal charges of public corruption is set to begin in early December, has maintained his hold on a loyal bloc of voters who appear unfazed by the allegations of wrongdoing.

 

[deleted50478]

I'm not saying that representative democracy isn't the best form of government going. It's just limited by the flawed voters, some places more flawed than others, and by corruption.

 

[jetproppilot]

Congressman William Jefferson Indicted on Bribery Charges
Tuesday, June 05, 2007 AP

WASHINGTON — A federal grand jury on Monday indicted Louisiana Democratic Rep. William Jefferson on 16 charges relating to a long-running investigation into bribery, racketeering, obstruction of justice and money laundering.

Calling it a "broad range of serious crimes," federal prosecutors called the case one about "greed, power and arrogance."

"The 16-count indictment alleges a pervasive pattern of self dealings, bribery and corruption by Mr. Jefferson, in violation of his oath of office, of his duty to the United States Congress in which he served, and of the duty to the citizens of the United States," said Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Jefferson got money from Moyo, feds testify
by Paul Rioux, The Times-Picayune
Friday October 17, 2008, 10:07 PM

Twice-convicted bond broker Gwendolyn Moyo funneled $20,000 in illegal proceeds to U.S. Rep. William Jefferson last year and threw him a lavish party in a private suite at a Los Angeles Lakers game, according to testimony in Moyo's federal fraud trial Friday as prosecutors rested their case.

Ministers back U.S. Rep. William Jefferson for Congress
by Michelle Krupa, The Times-Picayune
Monday October 13, 2008, 11:36 AM


ELIOT KAMENITZ / THE TIMES-PICAYUNE
U.S. Congressman William Jefferson holds a press conference at the Fine Arts Center at 1733 Constantinople St. where a group of African-American ministers gave him support for his re-election bid, Monday, October 13, 2008.
More than two dozen influential African-American pastors stood shoulder to shoulder Monday morning with embattled U.S. Rep. William Jefferson and pledged their support for the congressman's campaign to win a 10th term as he continues to face a federal indictment on charges of bribery and corruption.


Rep. William Jefferson's trial likely to be delayed
by Jonathan Tilove, The Times-Picayune
Friday October 10, 2008, 11:03 AM

ALEXANDRIA, VA. -- A federal judge today said that a Dec. 2 trial date for Rep. William Jefferson is unlikely, pending an appeals court ruling.

Results show voters keep the faith in Congressman William Jefferson
even his staunchest enemies marvel that Jefferson, whose trial on 16 federal charges of public corruption is set to begin in early December, has maintained his hold on a loyal bloc of voters who appear unfazed by the allegations of wrongdoing.

I'm glad you posted this.

This is wanna the most unreal reality situations I've ever seen in politics.....

Overwhelmingly unbelievable.....An indicted dude gets reelected here in New Orleans.....

Actually not so unbelievable in this city.....guess disappointing would be a better word.

 

[177983]

That one's about as crazy as the fact that Alaska seems to have re-elected a convicted felon! Makes you worry about the future of America sometimes... Technically, I guess Stevens isn't re-elected yet, but it's looking like he'll pull it off. Both of these are so depressing.

 

[QofQuimica]

Hey, there are multiple examples of people electing a dead candidate. I suppose one could make a fair argument that the best politician is a dead one. 😛

Personally, I think I will start voting for the opposite of what or who I really want. I'm 0 for 3 in the last three presidential elections, and a despicable constitutional amendment banning gay marriage got passed in FL yesterday as well.

 

[jetproppilot]

Personally, I think I will start voting for the opposite of what or who I really want. I'm 0 for 3 in the last three presidential elections, and a despicable constitutional amendment banning gay marriage got passed in FL yesterday as well.

I consider myself a very accepting person.

Not sure about the gay marriage thing though.

Why do you consider the amendment despicable?

 

[GassiusClay]

Thanks Debbie Downer.

Wah Wah Wah 🙁

People don't really have a choice because of two major factors:

Electoral college - basically a few states are considered to be swing states based on trends and politicians focus on those states (if they are strategic). The rest of us are either red or blue and so we don't matter. This year we have seen a few exceptions, but most of us are left out in the cold. I don't understand why we haven't gone to a popular vote, but then our founding fathers didn't want the final choice being in the hands of dumb people.

Uninformed - most votes are from uninformed people or people who know that their candidate has one appealing factor such as black, white, hate gays, accept gays, pro-war, anti-war.... If you don't find it obvious that blacks voted for Obama because he is black, then you are fooling yourself. It was quite evident on election night that blacks were "representing" their new sense of power and actually outright were taunting white folks. Great. Some stupid folks have chosen our next president based on race wars.


This leads me to fear a new kind of McCarthyism and Bushism. Now with an overwhelming blue legislation, what will happen? Will we run the other way on the spectrum? How will American culture change? I don't want to end up in another European country with a bunch of snobby liberal douches who sit around at home picking up government checks. Or even end up with black power mentality. Would that be any better than born-agains?

 

[Bertelman]

Personally, I think I will start voting for the opposite of what or who I really want. I'm 0 for 3 in the last three presidential elections, and a despicable constitutional amendment banning gay marriage got passed in FL yesterday as well.

Let me get this straight...You voted for Gore, then Kerry, then McCain? AND you support gay marriage? Please walk me through your thought process there. Why did you jump ship to the Republican party now?

Nevermind- you probably really, really hate GWB.

 

[Bertelman]

People don't really have a choice because of two major factors:

Electoral college - basically a few states are considered to be swing states based on trends and politicians focus on those states (if they are strategic). The rest of us are either red or blue and so we don't matter. This year we have seen a few exceptions, but most of us are left out in the cold. I don't understand why we haven't gone to a popular vote, but then our founding fathers didn't want the final choice being in the hands of dumb people.

Uninformed - most votes are from uninformed people or people who know that their candidate has one appealing factor such as black, white, hate gays, accept gays, pro-war, anti-war.... If you don't find it obvious that blacks voted for Obama because he is black, then you are fooling yourself. It was quite evident on election night that blacks were "representing" their new sense of power and actually outright were taunting white folks. Great. Some stupid folks have chosen our next president based on race wars.


This leads me to fear a new kind of McCarthyism and Bushism. Now with an overwhelming blue legislation, what will happen? Will we run the other way on the spectrum? How will American culture change? I don't want to end up in another European country with a bunch of snobby liberal douches who sit around at home picking up government checks. Or even end up with black power mentality. Would that be any better than born-agains?

I agree with the electoral college, but I think the party nomination system is just as culpable. Certain key states, based on when they hold caucuses/primaries, determine the candidates. Ask McCain about 2000.

As for Black people voting for Obama, two things:
1) I don't blame them one bit. White people in this country have been suppressing their rights since we extracted them from their native lands. Now, they get to elect one of their own. I'll excuse their (presumed) lack of judgment this one time. Next time, I expect some objectivity.

If you argue this affected the race, then you should accept that white people in equal numbers voted against him because he is black.

2) I don't buy into the fear tactic that 4 years of Obama will turn us into a socialistic, elitist, welfare-driven, insert-your-own-despised-trait-here country. It took Bush nearly 8 years to fuk it up, and he may be the worst president I will live to see. At worst, the scales tip in the other direction. If the scales tip too far, you know what is bound to happen. Next election cycle, Republicans win the majority. This cycle repeats itself in this country every generation.


As much as we despise so much about the election system, we are still the envy of most countries in this world, certainly any country with a significant multicultural makeup. I know the two-party system sucks, but at least each party has its turn. You don't have to look too far away (Mexico) to realize how little choice other supposedly "democratic" nations truly have.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Uninformed - most votes are from uninformed people or people who know that their candidate has one appealing factor such as black, white, hate gays, accept gays, pro-war, anti-war.... If you don't find it obvious that blacks voted for Obama because he is black, then you are fooling yourself. It was quite evident on election night that blacks were "representing" their new sense of power and actually outright were taunting white folks. Great. Some stupid folks have chosen our next president based on race wars.

Wow, throwing down the race card already?🙁

 

[Arch Guillotti]

snobby liberal douches

That is the first time I have ever heard that term😎.

 

[QofQuimica]

I consider myself a very accepting person.

Not sure about the gay marriage thing though.

Why do you consider the amendment despicable?

Because it's mean-spirited and morally reprehensible, just as all other discrimination is.

Let me get this straight...You voted for Gore, then Kerry, then McCain? AND you support gay marriage? Please walk me through your thought process there. Why did you jump ship to the Republican party now?

Heh, I didn't jump ship. I'm a registered Republican who is actually more of a libertarian. I didn't get to vote in 1992 b/c I was still 17. In the subsequent three elections, I either voted for third party candidates or for Democrats; this is the first time I've ever voted for a Republican.

Nevermind- you probably really, really hate GWB.

If thinking that Bush is a total disgrace who was unfit for his office qualifies as "really really hating GWB," then yes, I reckon I do. Bush is plenty socially conservative, but there's nothing fiscally conservative about him. There is almost no position he takes on any subject whatsoever with which I agree. Basically, he is an authoritarian who has a solid track record of flushing anything he touches (businesses, sports teams, the USA) straight down the toilet. Not that I'm preaching to the choir in here or anything. 😉

 

[deleted87051]

Would that be any better than born-agains?

Yes

 

[deleted50478]

I'd agree with you about black people voting for Obama because he is black except that black people ALMOST ALWAYS vote for the democrat when the candidate is white too. The most that can be said about the influence of race is that the increased turnout probably had something to do with it. Why black people favor democrats is another story, but it's hard to argue that race was too involved in the presidential election (as opposed to the congressional election I talk about above!)

It's also just wrong to act as if white people voted according to race, especially since Obama got a larger share of the white vote than Gore did!

 

[PerolaNegra]

-Personally, I agree with the system of electoral college.

-Its funny. Even though there are uninformed voters...rare to none did I see people (in particular the activist, teachers/students, spokespeople, artist/actors etc) advocate being "informed" but rather "get registered!". From what I have seen, the emphasis was getting registered to vote and actually vote, not to be become informed.

-We can blame uninformed voters (which I believe most Americans are uninformed) but there is still a choice. They could have attained or demanded the necessary resources to become informed voters because their votes as just as crucial to the candidates. And, if or when the political figures they voted into office turn on them they can remind themselves that they had a choice to be informed or not and chose not to be informed and vote. People who are not informed (informed does not necessarily mean "educated") should not vote. They should be able to know that consequences come with voting for a cause you do not know or understand.
　
-As much black people are claimed to have voted for Obama simply because he is black...there are people who did not vote for him because he was black (or so-called "arab" or "muslim" etc). In addition, I believe that it is somewhat belittling to assume black people voted for him because just because he is black. Did it ever occur that black people voted for him because of his politics? Did it ever occur that they too can be informed voters? Surely, there are those who also voted for him because he is black...but again there are many who did not voted for him because he was black.

-Regardless, election are a constant in the U.S. You know every four years you will have an election and that hell would break loose if you all did not have it. Americans do not stand for "b.s." Americans have influence in the political system. More then other countries. You may not like conditions of the state now but most everyone is okay and living well. I think about my family that do not live in America who do not have the freedoms and choices or money that I am able to attain here. I do not care how crappy the economy is or a financial meltdown...yes these unfortunate circumstances suck but in America, Americans have influence and impact in the political system. Yes, there are flaws but still...the people have some iota of power, influence and change, when things go wrong (to try and make them right) without even a resort to major unrest and violence.